The Prophet

Coming to a store near you: http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9166/pcnufckitut8.jpg

We need some talkers on the pitch, should get some of the birds that live next door on the pitch they never shut the fuck up.

The PC brigade will be all over this one.

I think people have lost sight of what is being discussed here. We're not comparing boards, we're not asking if Ashley has done a good job, we're discussing has he shown ambition. The rest of the topics have been discussed to death.

Excellent post. One thing though, I haven't read the full thread but what I have read I don't think too many have said they would want Shepherd back. I think what most are trying to say is they hoped Ashley would be and still can be ambitious by backing his managers like Shepherd usually did.

I give up, my French treble fucked up as well. Toulouse won 3-0, Nice won 2-0 but St. Etienne drew 1-1 conceding three minutes from time.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/predictor/default.stm A better indicator if you have the time.

But it had nothing to do with the amount of players Keegan wanted it would appear it was the actual players brought in that Keegan was narked about

The problem with Owen is his lack of self sufficiency. He's at that stage in his career where he needs service to thrive as a footballer, service that is becoming less and less frequent the poorer we play. At this moment in time we need self sufficient strikers, ones that will make things happen. Yes I know he's fantastic at what he does but when he isn't getting the chance to do it makes him little more than a passenger.

People are still basing their posts on speculation, all we know is what can be seen through statements to the media and players that are transferred in and out of the club, the rest is just reading between the lines, an educated guess if you like. What we do is know is Freddy Shepherd would always and would sometimes recklessly back his managers. I was never a fan of the bloke but money was more than frequently spent, he was ambitious. When Ashley came in I welcomed him with open arms, a man who can take us to the very top, oh how wrong I was. What Chelsea and Man City are now attempting to do is destroying the game, an un-level playing field is developing. But no matter how much I dislike what they are doing if you dream and have ambitions of reaching the very top, and you want to do it quickly you have got to spend money in vast amounts. Now I applaud Ashley's sentiments. To run an academy Arsenal-esque with a seemingly limitless conveyer belt of talent coming through the ranks but there are two observations to make about this: 1) Arsenal already had a title winning team when they began their youth development programme 2) They're struggling in the current climate. So yes we'd all love to be run by Arsenal but they're going to have to spend money themselves, they're in serious danger of falling behind. So you look at Ashley's motives for wanting to run the club like this. I don't know if it was Mike who made the comment but I read somewhere that he wants to be able to buy players dirt cheap and flog them for a huge sell on value, in other words he wants a profit. Being a businessman this is understandable but that's the problem, he's a businessman, personally I feel his mistakes have come through not understanding the game properly. But Ashley's been in the game for a season and a half now, he must know the climate, any old divvy can see the only way to the top is spending money, then once your at the top you start to reel in the profits, it's give and take. Ashley is still in a position where he can salvage the club. He's shown glimpses of showing ambition with the signing of Colo and the attempted signing of Modric but we need more. I'd love to do things the Arsenal way but right now we can't think about our long term future when our short term future is in such perilous danger. If Ashley really wants to show us he has ambition at this very moment there's only one way to do it, get the bloody cheque book out.

That's an intresting knee-jerk reaction right there. While I agree with some of your post your forgetting one key factor. Form, it can change, even with the slightest bit of luck. Yes in current form it isn't looking good but it only takes one large slice of luck to turn the whole issue on it's head. We just need to hope it changes sooner rather than later.

I think if we looked hard enough we'd find a keeper good enough to replace shay, I think it would be the symbolism of him leaving that would do the damage.

Let's put this in perspective. He's 16.

And we are supposed to be basing our whole future on youth At the end of the day sticking a youngster in here and there isn't going to do us any harm. To me our current form is due to a lack of confidence after getting battered by Liverpool. We need some luck to turn it around even if the ball deflects of somebody’s knob end and into the back of the net to give us an undeserved win, we need some slice of luck to turn our form around. Anyway I'm getting side tracked as per. Basically a lot of the players out there have thrown in the towel. You can have all the quality in the world but if you don't try why bother? One thing you know about any youth coming into the side is they will try. They'll be hungry and what they'll lack in quality they'll certainly give in effort. The question is what do you want in the team during the current injury crisis? A couple of senior players who have quality but don't apply it. Or a couple of raw talents who are no where near the finished article but will still give it there all?

Gutted. They don't need him. Still you might as well go in for ireland now. They won't sell Ireland, he's been their best player this season. Better off going for Gelson or Johnson, both very good players from what I've seen. Gelson is rubbish im and Johnson is injured, Besides i doubt city would want to sell. Not to bothered with us missing out on Palacios but we need Appiah. Aye you need an injury prone midfielder to go with your injury prone back line.

It's not really a predictor though is it? Will our form change? What about the form of those around us? Will we get injuries? Will they get injuries? What about incoming players? What about outgoing players? Will lady luck have a say? What about the bubbly pitch? What about the swirling wind? Will Kinnear get a happy ending or will he have to polish his own wood? You get the picture...

It's got something to do with that idea Partridge had for a TV show. 'Bad Attitudes.' I suppose. I know he fell out with the management but there again I think Rijkaard had lost most the dressing room anyway, Eto'o was just more public with his feelings.

Eto'o is top class, defiantly one of a rare breed of world class players knocking around at the moment. Don't know why Barca wanted to sell in the summer to be honest.

Am i reading this right? You want to risk the future of the club just to force out the man who could change it all, even though he;s given us the best first team in 5 years? Yet we're in our worst position as a club since gaining promotion in 1993. So its isnt the best first team we've had in 5 years? Is that what you're saying? No because it's not better than the team we had in 2004. Id say it was mighty close, closer than it has been for 4 years at least. Point pretty much stands still. How does your point still stand when it isn't even the best for 5 years? Best in 4 years then? January 05, the window we signed Boumsong and Babayaro. Id still argue that this first team would give the SBR 04 team a run for its money. My opinion anyway. With the right man in charge, definitely. The problem is since the Bobby Robson era the rest of the league has improved and progressed while our continuous conveyer-belt of managers have continued to tare apart the spine of the squad and attempted to build from scratch resulting in little if not no progress.

Yeah Beye is important to the balance of the back line but in terms of sheer impact I think these two will be vital to a finish outside the bottom three.

Right I'll do my best to address Lien and HTT's posts together. I understand the fans anger I really do. I'm not exactly tickety-boo myself and I imagine paying to watch today must have increased that anger ten-fold. But on the other hand you've paid the money, you know the crack, you’re not going to get a quality performance from this bunch. We're currently on a poor run of form with an injury hit squad, yes I expect professionalism and effort from the players but it was clear today we just weren't going to get it and that's not good enough, especially if we went behind. So as a fan sitting in the away end what do you do? Do you think to your self: "I know what will get the lads going, a good old chant about Dennis Wise" or do you turn the noise up a couple of notches and let the lads know we're still behind them. I completely understand why the former option was taken under the circumstances but do I agree with it? No, because it wasn't productive in the slightest. Then that begs the question what can we as the fans do to let our hurt be known without upsetting the apple cart? Well that is an incredibly difficult question. Do we sit tight lipped and hope we see out the season or do we go in all guns blazing demanding an upheaval and change. Well I think most fans want the latter, but there is very little we can do without doing more damage than good and that's what's so frustrating. Any kind of change at this club is going to bring negatives at this time of the season. We all know Ashley is too thick skinned to change his approach, he's shown us that already, he has his methods and whether they're right or wrong it looks like he's sticking to them. Chanting at Ashley and the so Called "cockney mafia" isn't going to get us anywhere. So what about Kinnear, hypothetically so we kick up a fuss and get him binned then what? Who would realistically want this job that is an improvement on Kinnear given the current circumstances? An owner who's got "looking to sell up when the price is right" written all over him, supposed limited control of transfers, a team that throws in the towel when things aren't going their way and a restless fan base. It really isn't that attractive. It's also worth noting we're in the middle of a transfer market which will have shut before the new man can take control. So change isn't going to be easy it takes time for the dust to settle time we don't have. The fact is with returning players we still have a squad that is more than capable of finishing mid-table this season. The problem for me now is that since that Liverpool rape the player’s confidence is shot they just don't look up for it. So how can we, the fans help that? Like HTT we do have the support but we don't have the positive support. It's difficult in these dark times to motivate the fans, we need noise we need positive, productive chants that makes those players believe they can win any game. We need to stop jumping on their backs and start riling them up so they have the motivation even if they themselves or their manager can't produce it. The damage is done, we've dug our hole and we need to climb out of it. All the negative chanting in the world might make the fans feel better, but it isn't going to change a thing apart from how deep that hole gets. Yes I'm hurting, and I want change, our club is a joke and it isn't good enough. But before we go demanding change at this very moment in time I think it's worth engaging our brains instead of our knees and we at least consider the short term consequences it will have on the team and our position in the league.

Whether we've put money into the club or not I think we all want change, we all want things to change. There's nothing more frustrating than watching your team sink to this level. But really what good can a protest do? The club is in such a delicate place at this time that kicking up a fuss could send it over the edge, that's why we're in such a tricky situation. Change at this time could do more harm than good and it's too much of a gamble to take. What the team and the club need at this minute is our undivided support to see them through this season with their Premier League status intact. Then we can think about the change and how to go about it.

They have every right to react angrily. Lying down and accepting this kind of dross is rank idiocy. What do you propose? Boycott? Protest? Sit in? Sit out? Stand up? Stand down? Making waves at this very fragile time could do more damage than good.

Of course I'm only speculating here but it seemed to be going peachy until Mort left and this worthless tit took the reigns. Of course it was Ashley who emplyed the bloke...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_JQQ47izsuLM/SKuLRaXNDvI/AAAAAAAAAQE/lCgbbqAWe7M/s400/400x400_ObafemiMartinsNew.jpg http://bolton.theoffside.com/files/2008/07/400x400_joeybartonnew3.jpg Both of these guys could well be off in the summer and what better parting gift than to pull us out of the mire. Barton will provide drive, aggression and some form of ability to distribute a ball in midfield while Martins while provide pace, unpredictability and a constant goal scoring threat up front. Keeping these lads off the sidelines could well be the key to our Premier League survival, both bring huge positives in to the team. Can their presence alone be enough to save the day?