The Prophet

A starter for ten: Would you employ a manager who had won four titles and and two manager of the year awards with two different clubs? Official Nile Ranger fan club

Lets play safe while were f***ing around with relegation ay. The last time I saw Lua Lua play was last season against Sunderland 2nd XI & he was f***ing s****, but then he was playing against players like Liam Miller & Ross Wallace players with nous who have played CL football not the cream of Oldham's youth team. The academy players who are in & around the first team Taylor, Edgar & Carroll are light years ahead Lua Lua although them chaps are not midfielders, which I think is part of the point Ron was making. Play safe? We have no fucker to play in the centre of the park. Colo can play there, CNZ can play there & so can Geremi, so there is 3 players. I'm not update on the injury front, how long is Guthrie out for? If he has a long lay off we're risking all three of our competent centre backs. Zoggy is wasted in the middle so your left with Butt and Geremi, is it too much to even stick the lad on the bench?

Lets play safe while were f***ing around with relegation ay. The last time I saw Lua Lua play was last season against Sunderland 2nd XI & he was f***ing s****, but then he was playing against players like Liam Miller & Ross Wallace players with nous who have played CL football not the cream of Oldham's youth team. The academy players who are in & around the first team Taylor, Edgar & Carroll are light years ahead Lua Lua although them chaps are not midfielders, which I think is part of the point Ron was making. Play safe? We have no fucker to play in the centre of the park. There's one thing this kid alone will bring to the team that the likes of Butt and Duff have forgotten all about and that is hunger. The lad is hungry for the game and hungry to prove he can play it. Now I'm not naive enough to think that this lad is just going to walk into the side and pull the strings for years to come. However, this game is leaning process. The only way you learn is by doing. If this lad is to stand a chance he needs some exposure to the first team, relegation fight or not. You can have all the hunger in the world but if you don't develop the talent you have then it becomes pointless. So give the lad a chance to shine, even if it's for a twenty minute period at the end of the odd game. It might be refreshing to have new blood in an ageing side which appears to have everything to lose.

Better get some games under my belt, been known for the odd mis-timed tackle when the rust creeps in...

The only way we'll ever know if he's going to be any good is by throwing him in at the deep end...

Everton can be horrendous to watch at times. I think I should like them because they have players I like (Arteta, Pienaar, Osman) and three Nigeria internationals (would have had another if not for work permit nonsense too), but your style of play is incredibly bad sometimes. It's because, like us, they have a collection of poor footballers in the centre of the park. They frequently start Arteta, who is probably still their best football player, out wide. They then play the likes of Osman and Fellani in the middle, the latter of which has potential but is still finding his feet in the league. You then have Cahill dropping back to support, effective in the box? Yes, influential elsewhere? No.

Xisco, older, fitter and with more experience, its common sense man Wullie. Xisco has had no chance what soever and if he's sold I lose all faith in the recruiting policies of this club. That's assuming the idiots who boo him and say he's s*** already haven't scared him off. Put him on the bench for the weekend in place of Carroll as Viduka and Carroll are way to similar. How is it common sense to have 3 strikers and no midfielders on the bench? Its the terms of Established first team players. Xisco is Kazenga isn't. Simple as that, he's coming off the back of an injury picking him and then playing him against a team that are as physical as Stoke would only have given more way to a potential injury. And as for Viduka Carrolll, glad I made you laugh Wullie. But please tell me the differences they offer? Both are "Big striker" Viduka has far more control and a better shooting and is a far superior player to Carroll, but in terms of what they offer, they aren't different. If you play Viduka and Martins you have plenty of options, Viduka Carroll you have very little. Answered your own question. Oh and in the right system Owen and Martins can work together, we just don't have the players for that system.

Impressive NE5, when did you take up fishing? Didn't Gretna collapse due to exceptional circumstances? Think the then owner is on his death bed or something along those lines. I think part of Hoffenheim's impressive success is how they're making themselves sustainable via their youth policy, Hopp really knows his onions.

Tip of the day: DON'T LISTEN TO LIEN Was going to lump on Shakhtar, pah last time I take notice of any of your gems of wisdom in the bookies...

Another masterful treble, when will I learn to stopping looking at value...

By the way, cracking thread Parky. It's nice to have a decent football debate for a change.

Liverpool Lisbon Inter 16/1 Burnley Forest QPR 13/1

The stats don't say anything because we're talking about a certain situation, one where we're desperately trying to hang onto a lead and the best way to do that is not allow the opposition backline to move up onto the halfway line. You're right in that of course it's not the only reason but it's a major factor. It's not simply a case of who scores at certain times and after coming on or whatever - in the last ten minutes when you desperately need a goal, there aren't many players I'd rather have than Michael Owen (see Wigan) but that is not the case here. Why is he leaving a specialist poacher on when he clearly has no interest in scoring another goal? Just looking at stats and goals doesn't tell you anything about how much fear Martins' presence alone puts into a defence (especially one like Stoke's - hardly blessed with pace) and stops them playing a high line, no matter how he's performing on the day. Kinnear shouldn't be trying to defend these leads at all but in taking Martins off, he's shooting himself in the foot because it makes it harder to defend such a lead. He'd gone off when Man City equalised btw. Aye, I know I was referring to the Wigan game. I largely agree with your post but I don't think the subbing of Martins in particular could be classed as shooting yourself in the foot. If you take Martins off and replace him with Viduka you’re causing the opposition a problem. They'll push up and his hold play will bring Owen into play. Now with Owen's pace and intelligent movement I still expect us to be a danger on the attack. Similarly had Kinnear brought on Martins for a defender and we had switched a 4-3-3, pushing N'Zogbia and Jonas up front with Owen we would have still caused problem because with the pace of three of them we would still provide an attacking threat up front. Now when you are causing yourself a problem is when you bring Martins off for a defender and you sit deep. If we're talking about the Stoke game, they get their success from pushing other sides back line further and further back until they're sitting on the keeper. And that's what we did, we plaid into their hands. So what am I trying to say? Well, making a negative substitution does not cause a later reversal as long as you compensate for it by keeping some form of attacking presence. Pace, skill and intelligence will always scare defenders, it doesn't particularly matter to me whether it's Martins, Owen, Jonas or N'Zogbia in the final third because they will all put fear into a back line, particularly those with little pace. What does cause a late reversal is a negative attitude and negative tactics. Getting rid of your attacking outlet all together to sit deep and defend in your own half in this league is suicide and we proved this by paying the ultimate price. For me if we had subbed Martins as we did and continued with a positive attitude we would have won that game. So again I reiterate, no, subbing Martins doesn't help but at the same time subbing him is not the cause of our problems. We have conceded late goals for a variety of reasons this season from lack of concentration to having to defend with 10 men against a quality attacking team, but on this occasion we lost those two because we played negatively, not because we substituted Martins.

What's your point? Didn’t particularly have one... Well if you haven't got a point make really long posts then none will notice. I'd say the point was people need to stop making mountains out of molehills when it comes to Martins being subbed. I beg your pardon? You heard me. Na, my post with the stats on pretty much confirms what I thought. The subbing of Martins isn't cuasing a late reversals but a general lack of pace, attacking threat and ruthlessness is. I think you can look at previous squads, hold your hands up and say the back line was piss poor. Yet you look at this one and the fact they can comfortably keep a clean sheet gives you a bit of hope yet like the defence of old they still ship late goals. Now I think unless you have a top four defence with your Ferdinands and Terrys, etc, sitting back and trying to defend any form of lead is a dangerous game, particularly with the nature of our league. So to answer your original post, no. There's no doubt that subbing Martins doesn't help in the slightest and sometimes contributes to the problem but it isn't the sole cause. The reason we squandered the lead against Stoke is because we insisted on trying to hold back and attempt to protect it. Even if we had Owen and Viduka up front and we continued to push forward I feel we would of comfortably beaten them. Also, if you also take note of some of the other results: Martins was on the field against Wigan, while we were down to ten men against City, circumstance hasn't always helped this season but as I say neither have our tactics.

What's your point? Didn’t particularly have one... Well if you haven't got a point make really long posts then none will notice. It was hardly a really long post Erm... Minds gone dead, you can have a point later...

What's your point? Didn’t particularly have one...

Good post but you'd also have to add the general standard of the league has improved dramtically since then, even under Keegan there'd no longer a game you'd consider an easy three points.

Right I'm very, very bored so I've whipped a quick set of stats together for you (applies to the Premier League only): Since joining us Martins has been substituted 24 times, on average around the 67th minute mark. In total, after he has been benched, we have gone on to score 11 goals, interestingly we've only conceded 10. Martins has come off the bench a total of six times since joining us, on average after 62 minutes. He's never scored on any of these occasions. The team however have score six times after he has come on, only conceding once. Under Kinnear Martins has been subbed six times. After he has left the field we have never scored and conceded twice. And for knit-pickings sake and just to show off, Martins has been replaced by Owen five times. Of these five occasions the team has scored four times (Owen getting two himself) and have also conceded four times.

Shut up yourself Sorry if you don't like me laying the blame at the owner/board 100% for the small squad the manager has, but I do. I know I feel I ruined my point with the soft ending, poor. But seriously, I don't care where you laying the blame, whenever you a post in a thread they go down the same old worn away path, just leave it be.

Oh my word, NE5 your as welcome to this forum as any other member but get it into you disturbingly thick, bot like skull that no one gives a shit. If we wanted to discuss the board we'd be in your quote-tastic thread arguing with you about the same things, watching you dodge the same questions and generally behaving like a five year old. We've seen the routine and its boring us, so please do us all a favour and a give over. Oh and I don't want you to think it's because the truth hurts or because I don't like Shepherd its because your an incredibly annoying, thread-jacking, attention seeking twat, shut up!

Aye spot on in terms of yesterday but it is becoming a bit of a habit if you look at the City, Wigan and very nearly the West Brom games.

I can see why someone would say this but I tend to disagree, to me any hatred of them would be born out of pure jeolusy. How else are the clubs in poverty (in footballing terms) meant to make something of themselves without spending money. ...and as mentioned above it's not like they've done a Chelsea or a Man City.

It does appear as though we've lost the bottle to finish off a game. Probably through a mixture of poor use of substitutions (and tactics) and a lack of leadership. The problem is the more it happens the more likely it is repeat itself. Players begin to realise they haven't finished off opposition in past games and so the nerves creep in. It's a nasty habit, one that's far too easy to slip into. Last season's Fulham are a prime example of this.

No where near as blatant as Chelsea are. Yes they have a billionaire owner but instead of chasing the world's finest players they choose to do their recruitment largely in South America and Germany. For example, three or four of their players were bought from the Stuttgart academy, they were deemed not good enough by one of Germany's top clubs.

Jealous? I most certainly am. It's fair to say in 1990 Hoffenheim were absolute no marks. They were nothing more than a local amateur side languishing in the Baden-Württemberg A-Liga, to you and me the eighth tier of German football. Things began to turn when former player Dietmar Hopp, formally a player of the club, returned as a financial backer. He began to pour his new found wealth into the club and by 2001 Hoffenheim had already jumped to the Regionalliga Süd, German football's third division. Despite their remarkable progress the football club still went about its business relatively unnoticed and the magic seemed to have disappeared with the club spending several seasons rooted in mid-table of the division. However in 2006, with Hopp as the club's owner, the club were on the march again. Ralf Rangnick former Stuttgart and Schalke manager was employed and with Hopp's financial backing the club were promoted yet again to the originally named 2. Bundesliga. Still not content with their rapid change in fortune, the following season Hoffenheim went and got themselves promoted again, this time to the top division in German football, the Bundesliga. And here they are now 16 games in sitting at the top of the pile. So apart factor of wealth what else has prompted the unlikely growth of this football club? Well despite having control first team, the reserve team and the youth academy, Rangnick has worked under and director of football, Jan Schindelmeier, since he took charge since 2006. Now interestingly they have a good working relationship and Schindelmeier continues to find fantastic players from quite frankly no where. Hoffenheim's scouting system is brilliant. Over the last two years they have managed to set up the best youth facilities in Germany. Rangnick and Schindelmeir are both strong believers in youth development, so it's no coincidence the average age of the side is around 22. These young players are plucked from the academies of leading German sides: take the likes of Andreas Beck, Tobias Weis and Salihovic for example. But if you still want evidence look no further than Ibisevic. Last year he was playing his trade for Aachen in Germany's second division, now he's competing for the golden boot scoring an impressive 18 goals in 16 games in the top tier. These signings along with the likes of Carlos Eduardo, Demba Ba and Luiz Gustavo have led the club to play a mouth watering brand of football. It's the stuff of dreams isn't it? And the thought that has contributed to the club's massive growth sounds very familiar doesn't it? Our very own Mike Ashley tried to form a set-up which would bare similar results that of Hoffenheims. For example he, like Hopp tends to stay out of the day to day business of the club, the chairman Peter Hofmann runs the German outfit. Ashley also wanted to buy players who would grow in stature and value something Hoffenheim have also done successfully. So to me it's obvious that it all lies in the execution. With money and the right people in the right positions all sharing a single goal anything can be achieved. With a new 30,000 seat stadium on the horizon Hoffenheim are living the dream. We can only hope that one day our own fortunes will change for the better, but for the time being doesn't it feel good to watch a club, that not so long ago in 1990, achieve what must have seemed like an impossible dream?