The Prophet

I think it's a bit unfair to call the last transfer window a failure in terms of the actual business we did. Selling Milner without a real replacement was a disappointment but all in all it was pretty good. The defence isn't perfect but looks 100% better, we brought in a winger, an attacking midfielder and a striker. Yes with hindsight for various reasons some haven't worked but the two notable disappointments are the two that haven't been given a chance for one reason or another. The consistent problem is we continue to sell so we're never addressing the issue of depth. I'm all for selling off the dead wood or even average first teamers for the right price and that's what we have done. Unfortunately in doing this we've left ourselves a bit short and this has been exposed horribly by the recent injury crisis. We had a chance to address this in this window and that's why it is particularly disappointing. So I'd say we have got what we wanted it's just we've left ourselves with no back up as such which in its self in an error but not one to constitute all of the Ashley regime's transfer windows a failure. Other manager's have expressed their dissatisfaction about the way things are done but I don't think that's because the transfers themselves it's more the fact they weren't getting the specific players they wanted. That's a mistake of appointing the wrong man for the job, not of bringing in the wrong players. A mistake as you correctly pointed out fits into the much bleaker wider perspective. Failure can only really be defined in context. On one occasion more success may be required than on another occasion for them both to be considered as being comparatively useful. It's for that reason that I consider this particular window to be particularly detrimental. As for last Summer, taken in isolation it wasn't singularly awful, but it was certainly disillusioning and like I say, windows can only really be taken in relation to their circumstances and its final week was the crescendo which brought us to where we are now. Incidentally, just to clarify where I think we are now, this is the first time in recent history that I can seriously envisage us going down. Certainties? Maybe not, but I didn't feel that the club would go down under Souness etc. - not because the managers would not take us down but because the club fundamentals were superior or even because I felt the bad manager would be ousted and 'new man syndrome' would carry us over the finishing line, in the way Roeder did. This last point relates very heavily to Ashley, both regarding transfer windows and generally - I am consistently amazed by the actions or lack of action taken by his administration. To visit your last point about managerial dissatisfaction, it doesn't solely relate to the players chosen - would that it were. Instead, at the fourth attempt, we have Kinnear complaining about the lack of activity coming from above and having to call meetings to get arses moving. Why haven't they learnt? Its why I've come to not take seriously ideas that 'all kinds of things are taking place behind the scenes' - there appears to be a consistent lack of urgency or appreciation of the position the club is in at any given point. Anyway, back to general management and one of the reasons we may go down. I don't have much time for Kinnear, and I understand you don't either. If it looks like we're in serious trouble with a few games to go, what do you see the Board doing to help our cause in any way? I'm not convinced they'll do the right thing at the right moment, I'm not convinced they'd get someone appropriate in afterwards and because of the state the club is widely perceived as being in, I'm not sure they could bring that appropriate person in if they wanted to. The last window put into context was a good window for transfers but a disastrous window for Newcastle United. For me that wasn't down to the players, it was down to the board trying to squeeze Keegan into a position when he was never right for that position for day one and as you say that spiralled and we are where we are now. It really depends what context your choosing to put it in. However rather than call this window an absolute disaster I'd call this window a missed opportunity. The threat of relegation becomes greater by the month this transfer period was an opportunity to relive that pressure and for one reason or another we didn't take it. For me that doesn't take us any closer to the sword but similarly it doesn't take us any further away. So rather than call it damaging or anything along those lines I'd stick with a disappointment, the signings we did make were handy, it was the lack of them that made it underwhelming. As for your point about the administrations lack of urgency I'd have to agree. As you say we have to do the right thing at the right time and I can't help but feel we've left it too far along the line to make any kind of major change without doing more harm than good. Our position is perilous now, but searching for a new manager post-transfer window and the third manager this season? It'll only get worse.

Ah the witch hunt is starting to gather momentum. Cracking how without full knowledge of what's going on people point the finger regardless. We can't praise the recruitment team because they didn't do their job but at the same time I'd like to know why before I start blaming them.

... the place would of been as equally kneee-jerk with overly positive views about how the transfer market went.

Sure your not talking from personal experience, a strange justification to make indeed. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx7X4cgh3qI Seen it, quality.

Sure your not talking from personal experience, a strange justification to make indeed.

Indeed, we can only go on the tangibles - tangibles you are blind to. Shy of an unlikely surprise, they are bad - Ashley's organisation has, at best, failed to achieve necessary successes. At worst, they didn't attempt to achieve them. You seem to think we are operating in a sealed environment. We are not. Yesterday's result was us failing to win a relegation six-pointer at home. Those are the matches that must be won to stay up. Any assumption to the contrary takes it as true that we're as likely to draw against Man United, Liverpool (1-5) et al at home. In case you forgot through lack of interest, Sunderland won the converse fixture - a direct relegation rival of ours now holds a two point advantage over us. We don't have a lot to go off but a few sources corroborated we made an eleventh hour bid for Johnson. If this was indeed the case why was it so late? Were bids elsewhere rejected? Did talks break down? If so why did they break down? It isn't as simple as saying Ashley failed, we are only getting a key whole view of the full picture, until we know the reasons behind the lack of activity it's difficult to hold the recruitment team accountable. All that can be said is this is a disappointing transfer window due to a lack of personnel being recruited. Regarding your second point in an ideal world it is a game we needed to win. However you've got to take into account injuries, the fact it was a derby and Kinnear's general failings as a manger. The worrying thing is in the short term two of these things are unlikely to change. However in the long term we still have several opposition relegation rivals to play, should things pick up by then and given we pick up the off point from teams above us we should survive. A good transfer window would have helped in the short term but at the end of the day this squad is good enough to stay in the Premier League, we just need to drop this attitude of feeling sorry for ourselves. Do you think we simply possess extraordinarily bad fortune, then? Maybe Napoleon was right, then, preferring lucky Generals to good ones. This is as simple as saying Ashley failed. We can go over the reasons for why that failure took place, but it's definitely a failure. Why do these big bids keep going awry? Good question. We'll just have to go on what is demonstrated before us - Ashley's administration repeatedly fails to advance NUFC's fortunes and has us staring at the prospect of relegation. Re: bold, indeed - who's apparently offering him another 2 1/2 years in charge? You’re looking at a rather wide context when my point was a pretty narrow one to begin with. Yes Ashley has failed in some departments. His lack of footballing experience led to the events that unfolded earlier this season and his lack of due diligence on the club means he inherited a few nasty surprises when he bough it. That's to name just two of his errors I'm not praising or in fact defending where he's taken us as the club as a whole I was simply reflecting on the transfer market. In the context of this transfer market though did Ashley fail? We just don't know. He appointed a recruitment team who along with Kinnear only brought the three fresh faces in. Indeed this is disappointing but can we categorically point the finger at them or are there external factors to consider, maybe in this instance we were simply unlucky, until the picture becomes a bit clearer we just don't know. So yeah looking at the big picture it would certainly appear Ashley’s failings have had a major contribution in where we are now. He started a chain of events which led to the main contributing reason for our position today. But to then say "oh Ashley has consistently made mistakes, so this transfer window must be his fault" which essentially what your insinuating, is a completely illogical argument. I don't see how I'm taking your points that widely. What I'm saying is 'we've consistently failed to get what we need in transfer windows while under Ashley's administration' and I'm identifying that a factor present in each of those windows is Ashley's administration. There's more to it than that, of course, there's the fact that all three of his managers have expressed deep dissatisfaction with the way his administration conducts its behaviour during windows, for example. Seems logical, then, to hold suspicions. If we ARE going to look at the wider picture, then things look even worse. There's the fact he's gone through three managers in 18 months and the latest of them is Joe Kinnear. Wider circumstances thus make the results of our affairs with the transfer market even more important. This latest failure is all the more significant, therefore. I think it's a bit unfair to call the last transfer window a failure in terms of the actual business we did. Selling Milner without a real replacement was a disappointment but all in all it was pretty good. The defence isn't perfect but looks 100% better, we brought in a winger, an attacking midfielder and a striker. Yes with hindsight for various reasons some haven't worked but the two notable disappointments are the two that haven't been given a chance for one reason or another. The consistent problem is we continue to sell so we're never addressing the issue of depth. I'm all for selling off the dead wood or even average first teamers for the right price and that's what we have done. Unfortunately in doing this we've left ourselves a bit short and this has been exposed horribly by the recent injury crisis. We had a chance to address this in this window and that's why it is particularly disappointing. So I'd say we have got what we wanted it's just we've left ourselves with no back up as such which in its self in an error but not one to constitute all of the Ashley regime's transfer windows a failure. Other manager's have expressed their dissatisfaction about the way things are done but I don't think that's because the transfers themselves it's more the fact they weren't getting the specific players they wanted. That's a mistake of appointing the wrong man for the job, not of bringing in the wrong players. A mistake as you correctly pointed out fits into the much bleaker wider perspective.

I've said people need to lower their expectations but at the same time a lot are taking their views out of context. No one was expecting a massive signing, in fact at the beginning of January expectations were quite low, then silly season begins and we getting linked with the likes of Veloso people getting sucked into the media hype. So yeah expectations were too high for some but some people rightly wanted more. I wanted more. The business we've actually done isn't too bad. It's the fact we've failed to bring extra bodies in. Like I said we can't really lay direct blame at Ashley and the recruitment team until we know the full picture, if speculation was to be believed he was attempting to throw £16 million around, not a small sum. However this money wasn't spent and we're still sorely short of players. A decent transfer market would of eased fears of relegation but I think today it's finally dawned on a lot of people we're in deep shit and that in itself might be one of the reasons we struggled to attract players. There will be a lot of finger pointing going on with what is rightly being described as a missed opportunity. However this does not bring us any closer to relegation. The problem is it doesn't help us out of it either. So all in all undeniably disappointing, underwhelming but no where near bad enough to fuel claims we're going down because of it. If anything the continuing post-window witch hunt will do more damage than the transfers (or lack of them) themselves.

Indeed, we can only go on the tangibles - tangibles you are blind to. Shy of an unlikely surprise, they are bad - Ashley's organisation has, at best, failed to achieve necessary successes. At worst, they didn't attempt to achieve them. You seem to think we are operating in a sealed environment. We are not. Yesterday's result was us failing to win a relegation six-pointer at home. Those are the matches that must be won to stay up. Any assumption to the contrary takes it as true that we're as likely to draw against Man United, Liverpool (1-5) et al at home. In case you forgot through lack of interest, Sunderland won the converse fixture - a direct relegation rival of ours now holds a two point advantage over us. We don't have a lot to go off but a few sources corroborated we made an eleventh hour bid for Johnson. If this was indeed the case why was it so late? Were bids elsewhere rejected? Did talks break down? If so why did they break down? It isn't as simple as saying Ashley failed, we are only getting a key whole view of the full picture, until we know the reasons behind the lack of activity it's difficult to hold the recruitment team accountable. All that can be said is this is a disappointing transfer window due to a lack of personnel being recruited. Regarding your second point in an ideal world it is a game we needed to win. However you've got to take into account injuries, the fact it was a derby and Kinnear's general failings as a manger. The worrying thing is in the short term two of these things are unlikely to change. However in the long term we still have several opposition relegation rivals to play, should things pick up by then and given we pick up the off point from teams above us we should survive. A good transfer window would have helped in the short term but at the end of the day this squad is good enough to stay in the Premier League, we just need to drop this attitude of feeling sorry for ourselves. Do you think we simply possess extraordinarily bad fortune, then? Maybe Napoleon was right, then, preferring lucky Generals to good ones. This is as simple as saying Ashley failed. We can go over the reasons for why that failure took place, but it's definitely a failure. Why do these big bids keep going awry? Good question. We'll just have to go on what is demonstrated before us - Ashley's administration repeatedly fails to advance NUFC's fortunes and has us staring at the prospect of relegation. Re: bold, indeed - who's apparently offering him another 2 1/2 years in charge? You’re looking at a rather wide context when my point was a pretty narrow one to begin with. Yes Ashley has failed in some departments. His lack of footballing experience led to the events that unfolded earlier this season and his lack of due diligence on the club means he inherited a few nasty surprises when he bough it. That's to name just two of his errors I'm not praising or in fact defending where he's taken us as the club as a whole I was simply reflecting on the transfer market. In the context of this transfer market though did Ashley fail? We just don't know. He appointed a recruitment team who along with Kinnear only brought the three fresh faces in. Indeed this is disappointing but can we categorically point the finger at them or are there external factors to consider, maybe in this instance we were simply unlucky, until the picture becomes a bit clearer we just don't know. So yeah looking at the big picture it would certainly appear Ashley’s failings have had a major contribution in where we are now. He started a chain of events which led to the main contributing reason for our position today. But to then say "oh Ashley has consistently made mistakes, so this transfer window must be his fault" which essentially what your insinuating, is a completely illogical argument.

Completely ignored why they wanted to leave. Given because he's sick of the club consistently being mired in the s*** and N'Zogbia because he spat his dummy out when our manager mispronounced his name? Exactly. Although Nzogbias reason was pathetic they still both wanted to leave because of push factors rather than pull factors. Im f***ed off because if we were being run properly then they wouldnt have left we could have been up 3 players, rather than up just 1. I'd say their factors but not the absolute reasons for them leaving. I think Given would have left two or three years ago had he been handed the choice, it's just been a rainbow road with no treasure at the end for the lad. The recent events may have been the straw that broke the camel's back but not the absolute reason. With regards to N'Zogbia that could have been resolved with some common sense and a quite chat, both parties were in the wrong for me.

Completely ignored why they wanted to leave. Given because he's sick of the club consistently being mired in the s*** and N'Zogbia because he spat his dummy out when our manager mispronounced his name?

Indeed, we can only go on the tangibles - tangibles you are blind to. Shy of an unlikely surprise, they are bad - Ashley's organisation has, at best, failed to achieve necessary successes. At worst, they didn't attempt to achieve them. You seem to think we are operating in a sealed environment. We are not. Yesterday's result was us failing to win a relegation six-pointer at home. Those are the matches that must be won to stay up. Any assumption to the contrary takes it as true that we're as likely to draw against Man United, Liverpool (1-5) et al at home. In case you forgot through lack of interest, Sunderland won the converse fixture - a direct relegation rival of ours now holds a two point advantage over us. We don't have a lot to go off but a few sources corroborated we made an eleventh hour bid for Johnson. If this was indeed the case why was it so late? Were bids elsewhere rejected? Did talks break down? If so why did they break down? It isn't as simple as saying Ashley failed, we are only getting a key whole view of the full picture, until we know the reasons behind the lack of activity it's difficult to hold the recruitment team accountable. All that can be said is this is a disappointing transfer window due to a lack of personnel being recruited. Regarding your second point in an ideal world it is a game we needed to win. However you've got to take into account injuries, the fact it was a derby and Kinnear's general failings as a manger. The worrying thing is in the short term two of these things are unlikely to change. However in the long term we still have several opposition relegation rivals to play, should things pick up by then and given we pick up the off point from teams above us we should survive. A good transfer window would have helped in the short term but at the end of the day this squad is good enough to stay in the Premier League, we just need to drop this attitude of feeling sorry for ourselves.

For the record this isn't defending the club, this window has been a disappointment, we needed more bodies but the business we have done hasn't been two bad. You can criticise the sales of Zoggy and Shay all you want but at the end of the day they wanted to leave, we cannot afford to carry passengers in the current situation. Nolan is average, but he's a body while I think Lovenkrands and Taylor will come in handy during the current injury crisis. It's key to remember we have players returning from injury as well. Has to be said though I do agree with the whole if we wanted Johnson why didn't we use him as a bargaining chip school of thought.

Also to that add in the event we stay up people seriously need to lower there expectations in terms of the quality we bring in during the summer market. We will need to get over ourselves and start consolidating.

What a bunch of fucking morons. We haven't a clue what bids we made, who we held talks with, who we may still be holding talks with and yet people still pour themselves over these media sites expecting the God's honest truth. Selective reading at its very best my friends. For all we know we're still working on deals behind the scenes, we might not, we haven't a fucking clue. Look at the summer for an indication of how unpredictable we are in the market. But at the end of the day if we haven't strengthened the team any further, it's a bit like yesterdays result. It doesn't put us any closer to the drop but it doesn't really help either. We are still well capable of staying up, it isn't the end of the world man.

THE TRANSFER WINDOW HAS CLOSED BUT DEALS CAN STILL GO THROUGH WITH NOTICE AND EVEN IF THEY DON'T IT AIN'T THE END OF THE WORLD.

We don't have a clue what's going, people need to calm the fuck down.

Arsenal arent yet, Walcott has grown, but still need a Flamini replacement, half replaced Hleb in Arshavin (Would prefer Hleb) I'd say Nasri was your Hleb replacement. Forgot about Flamini though, you badly need some steel in the middle.

Congratulations to both Spurs and Arsenal. They have both splashed the cash and are exactly where they were this time last season, played.

No, where do you people hear these things? Christ on a bike.

Agreed, nice to see for a change.

Why do people continue to believe these so called news stories. The media know about as much as us, fuck all, they are merely speculating.

Probably defines most Premier League players these days.

Ah Quaresma. The guy was brilliant in his earlier days at Porto. Unfortunately he seems settled for second best happy to play the game with little urgency or character. His laid back nature means he has struggled with the pace of Serie A so God knows how he'll cope over here. On his day he's a world beater, but the lad just doesn't seem interested anymore.

I don't think anyone is saying that in fairness. If anything Sunderland edged it going into the break with us only creating one chance of note. We got a point in the end because you tried to hold a one goal lead away from home. We were a lot better after the break and you tried to play us on the counter, it was a ridiculous decision but if you try and defend such a narrow lead on the road in this league then your asking for trouble. A harsh decision? Yes, a fair result? Yes.

So we'd of finished that high up the league second time around? Would you like to back that up with any form of fact or any kind of logic for that matter? How can you give facts, on an opinion you have or a belief you have that is based on experience? its my belief, If Keegan had been backed we would be doing significantly better than we are doing now,...just an opinion based on my experience,...i may be wrong,.. its possible, im brilliant, but not perfect. Can't really argue with that. I don't know about siginifcantly better but if it's of your opinion then yeah why the hell not.