leffe186

The problem is that the passion for my club - which I will never lose - masks the soulless void that lurks within top level right now. When the team has a bad patch, and that can be just a single game, I tend to deal with it by withdrawing from football a little bit (avoid MOTD), try not to read about the game, throw myself into work etc etc. That has the effect of reminding me how ultimately silly it is that a large part of my happiness is governed by something so completely out of my control. It also means there's nothing to camouflage the state of the game - the ludicrous concentration of resources in the top two or three clubs (in every country), the wages, the cost of attending games etc etc. The passion for the club is still there - it still hurts - but the whole exercise is invested with less meaning than it used to be. I get stick from Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea fans (no City ones yet, tellingly, but they will come soon enough), but it seems emptier now, devoid of the meaning it used to have when we were competing on the same level. And devoid of the extra edge it had when I actually respected the support they had for their club.

Damn Pavlov.

I know it's footy supporter's pessimism/reverse jinxing, but I'm still surprised at how many people seem to think that you'll probably go down. The odds are still in your favour, just. If you beat QPR, you could go eleventh. There are just too many crazy things that would need to happen for you to go down. Win and you're safe, I reckon. Norwich are suddenly in great peril, but Wigan still need to get the points on the board. Even that one point today gave you an appreciably better chance of staying up.

Grow up. Tottenham are 2 levels below winning a big trophy. Arsenal and Chelsea haven't been at their best and they're fighting neck and neck with Spurs. That is their level. Staying another year is a good shout but Spurs aren't that close to challenging for big honours. Grow up??? If that's growing up, then I'll stick with the Lost Boys, thank you very much. What a soulless world you seem to live in. Sewelly is bang on. He might well want shit-tons of money or CL every year (which conveniently ignores the fact that he didn't leave last year), but that doesn't mean that there should be a concerted effort in the media to shift him on, perpetuating/accelerating the decline of club competition. In one respect, I won't put Spurs in the same box as Arsenal until we're earning the same amount as them, and paying the same stratospheric wages. Didn't stop us beating them a couple of months back. It amazes me that you can bring yourself to support Newcastle with that attitude - although I presume that you do so because football clubs stand for something deeper. Maybe some of these young footballers, if able to reflect without the pressure of a hysterical, one-eyed media and the clamor of agents, would feel the same.

Clattenburg? Naha, we won, he was gutted. I meant Bale! yeah, I know! He did, though it looked a bit muted, it was difficult to tell on my str- er, I mean TV.

I don't, for obvious reasons. Like I say, we were so poor today that I can't see us getting anything from Chelsea, so we need the Arse to screw up. Can't see that happening.

Clattenburg? Naha, we won, he was gutted.

Fuck me. Not a chance in hell we qualify if we keep playing like this. Clattenburg can fuck off too. (but, yay!)

'Mansfield manager Paul Cox called the game off with 17 minutes left, with Thompson the third player to require hospital treatment after challenges by Ilkeston FC striker Gary Ricketts, who was subsequently banned for two weeks and fined two weeks' wages by his club' What the f***!? The picture, 3 players needing hospital treatment, sounds like the bloke should have been banged up! Did a bit of digging: http://www.stagsnet.net/news/newsdetails.php?newsid=6078 One of the first things that came up on a search was another red card for the same guy.

I just voted no, for obvious reasons.

Exactly. The certainty comes from that article plus you guys feeling like shit, but if you stay up then it's a whole different ballgame. He's clearly happy there, and the injuries will clearly worry everyone else. Honestly, I think all this is pointless because (a) you'll stay up (b) you'll sack Pardew. If you fail to do either of those, then maybe players will be looking to leave, but I think you'll do them both. Ben Arfa is probably the one player we'd be most interested in because he offers us something we're really looking for - a clever, tricksy player who can play across the pitch as part of the three in 4231, or in the front three in a 433. Those who think we'd be looking for Ben Arfa to replace Bale are missing the point - we'd be expecting to get far more for Bale than we'd expect to pay for Ben Arfa, so we'd be getting Ben Arfa plus some money to get others in. Even if there is some truth in this, I reckon nothing happens unless you get relegated. I also reckon that if that happens, we'd be interested in Ben Arfa whether or not Bale stays.

I think it would be very mixed too, but I suspect an unbiased appraisal (i.e. not one either of us could come up with) would give us the edge. I also think that it would have Kaboul and Vertonghen at CB tbh, with Colo on the bench - to try to bring this back on topic . I just thought that a post citing "individual qualities" and "globally" better players needed to be challenged. The individual qualities of courage and personal responsibility were not very evident against Liverpool. The team whose fans perfected the art of the dubiously-argued mixed XI.

In terms of individual qualities, I don't see a better team than NUFC, bar the 2 Manchester, Chelsea and Arsenal. I even think there are better players - globally - in that team than Spurs or Everton. Pardew is just an old fashionned british manager, who can surely manage very well teams like Stoke or Wimbledon and their type of players. Before I try to answer that, can you just clarify? You're saying your players are better than ours?

But then wonder what would have happened if Cisse hadn't scored the late winner against Fulham, and if we hadn't got the late equalizer at Wigan. You'd have 35, they'd have 34. You truly would be shitting your pants. Still can't see them getting the six points they need - or even five - and I think you'll win at least one more game this season. Difference there is that Cisse's goal was perfectly legal. Bad refereeing decisions has cost us dearly this season, especially towards the end. The Wigan game is the prime example, we can also factor in the Cisse goal that was wrongly ruled out against the mackems, that would have put the game at 1-1 and it would have been a different game from there on. But the Wigan game is proving to be the most crucial game this season and we were clearly cheated in that match by terrible officiating. Oh, I know. My point is that you can agonize over some "what if"s, but you can "Thank Christ" over others. Either way, they didnt happen. If you focus on the shitty potential stuff you might feel slightly better .

But then wonder what would have happened if Cisse hadn't scored the late winner against Fulham, and if we hadn't got the late equalizer at Wigan. You'd have 35, they'd have 34. You truly would be shitting your pants. Still can't see them getting the six points they need - or even five - and I think you'll win at least one more game this season.

We're talking about Wigan catching us, which means probably catching them as well if they only got a point. Wigan catching us would amost certainly mean they have better goal difference than us but not than the Mackems. Exactly this. I think Wigan get six points max (and I don't think they even get that), which means that I reckon Sunderland just need a point to be safe. Still can't see past Wigan for relegation.

It's only us and Swansea who haven't had one. Norwich missed the only one they've got.

Still think the odds are still fairly solidly on you staying up. That late Cisse goal the other week was absolutely crucial. All you need's one win, and I suspect you won't even need that. My money's on Wigan - I mean, they're playing pretty well, but 5 points with four to play is still a solid ask. Just look at things like the Figueroa injury. They probably need to get everything right from now on, whereas you only need to get it right once. And that's without coming to Villa. I do fear that Villa will beat Sunderland though - said that all along, and Di Canio coming in hasn't changed my mind.

At least. It shouldn't have been 3-3 coming into this game as it was. Honestly, I think 3-6 is the final score. Time to wrap it up.

Wigan still five points behind, and will get fuck-all out of Arsenal. Plus, Villa and Wigan can't both win that last game. I'm still confident you'll stay up.

How on earth has he not been booked yet - for either a foul or the dive?

What wound him up? I wish they'd cut him loose tbh, the meltdowns when Liverpool do something shit are not outweighed by the overwhelming cunty smugness when they win.

Yes.

Been terrific this season.

Right: Clive Allen - 84 Gary Lineker - 80 Steve Archibald - 77 Steve Perryman - 39 Terry Fenwick - 10 Peter Baker - 3 (in 342 games). Jonathan Woodgate - 3 Joe Kinnear - 2 Paul Robinson - 1 Thimothee Atouba - 1 (Will this do?)