Jayson

Hang on though Martins got s*** for suggesting he shouldn't play with his groin injury There's only been 2 posts since this. Give it time. Are you trying to suggest that Owen gets away without stick on here? Most people would want to see him burned at the stake. Not at all, by the press more than on here. If it was Martins they would have said there was problems like they were saying last week in the press when they though Martins wasn't going to be fit to even be on the bench. Martins got shit for not turning up to training & not discussing it in any way with Al atall. Thats what made it seem dodgy. Dont think anyones going to have a go at a player who has proven hes actually not fit to play, owen or martins.

think villa will be ok. Dont trust bolton being half decent atalllllllllllll.

Think we'll win for some reason, cant see hull losing though.

So basically we should drop him because he doesn't fit the way the team currently plays. Got it. Depends how much faith you have in the likelyhood of our side playing better football as a result of having a bit more confidence following the result v boro. As owens had about two clear goalscoring chances in the last two games hes played in & with his movement still looking good. I would still play him. Chances are though also that our players level of confidence wont effect much and some of them will still play shocking football. In which case Owen wont fit in to well no. Just depends which side you choose. I think we can play better than we have been & that we're more likely to score goals putting faith in that than accepting we'll be crap again.

If we keep picking him, eventually he's bound to score, but you can say that about any player. The annoying thing is that, when that happens, we get a media chorus of 'how could they ever doubt him, he's really silenced the critics etc' , no matter how long a gap there's been since his previous goal. Anyway, stats on goal-scoring doesn't tell the whole story, even for a striker. The major problem with Owen at the moment is how little he contributes in other areas. Most players of good ability are likely to score maybe, are any of them also likely to go on a long run of games in which they score constantly and end up top scorer...as owen has throughout his entire career ? Not really. The "how could they ever doubt him" has already happened on this forum to martins. You seem to be making the case that if owen scored, hed probably never score again & wouldnt deserve the claims of "how could they doubt him" or else it makes no sense to be annoyed by that response. Yet realistically, this isnt actually based on anything thats ever happened in real life beyond your opinion is it? Theres nothing to base that assumption on, its the complete opposite of probable based on what Owens done having come of a run of games without goals his entire career. Again, owen probably contributes little because he isnt able to contribute much. Some of you make out as if he used to be 6'4 and 220lbs and hold off defenders with his shadow, hes never changed. You could say hes lost some pace, theres no reason to believe that would have any effect on his quality of distribution with his back to goal which is how he normally gets it. Hes largely the same player that was considered world class, the main difference is the side hes playing in & how much that side plays to his strengths. Its still likely he has brilliant movement, we aren't really able to see that much anymore. The run he made across the defender to get in a header against boro was the same owen whos scored many goals from headers. So its still there. Probably effected by confidence and annoyance. His movement put him through on goal v portsmouth. Another day he's scored 2 in 2 and no one says a thing. Yet most of you see nothing beyond the simplistic "goals scored" to judge a players ability, which makes it even more laughable when you then try to claim that others shouldnt be looking at this./ I was wanting to make the more limited point that whether or not Owen scores in the next match isn't all that significant. Whether or not he scores at all doesn't matter that much if the team was winning and he was causing other sorts of problems for the opposition. It's an overworked subject, but if I had to make one point that carries the most significance, it's the fact that, as an athlete, he's changed as a result of his injuries. You only have to look at him. He's about a stone heavier than he was 6 years ago, and while I'm sure he's as fit as he can be, that has affected his speed and his sharpness. Seeing that they were his prime assets, he really isn't the same player. That's not a matter of form. That's just nature taking its toll. But whether he scores or not is significant. Having a class finisher in any side is very very significant. The player you're talking scored about 7 in 9 last season as he has done in other parts of his career. Thats not the form of an average player whos lost it is it, its the form of a player whos still clearly a much better finisher than most. He looks no different now than he did last season, the same moans about him not doing enough were going on then. He looks no different now than from the start of this season when he was easily our leading scorer, apart from him putting the ball into the net. Some of his finishes this season have shown that no one else in our squad is as good when hes like that anyway. I agree when people say he hasnt been effective recently. Hes ineffective now because of how crap we are at moving it about & through balls as ive said. It makes sense that viduka & martins can do more in this side.....one can hold the ball up easily & get it to stick to his boot, the other can use his quick feet to go past a player or two. Either way the running theme is the foward having to do much of the work himself. Owens strength is his movement which requires an equal amount of ability from others in the side to put it where he needs it, he cannot do it all himself. He never has been able to. Seems to me those who think owen cannot be effective for us any longer are basically resigning themselves to the idea that from now on newcastle will be playing nothing but shit football. We shouldnt have to sign strikers that can do it all themselves in the first place if the rest of our side were half decent. That shouldnt be the priority, sorting the midfield out to provide a class finisher with chances to finish should.

You just know its defo going to go down to the last day of the season. We never ever ever ever do things easily. I will be absolutely amazed if we win today & hull lose.

If we keep picking him, eventually he's bound to score, but you can say that about any player. The annoying thing is that, when that happens, we get a media chorus of 'how could they ever doubt him, he's really silenced the critics etc' , no matter how long a gap there's been since his previous goal. Anyway, stats on goal-scoring doesn't tell the whole story, even for a striker. The major problem with Owen at the moment is how little he contributes in other areas. Most players of good ability are likely to score maybe, are any of them also likely to go on a long run of games in which they score constantly and end up top scorer...as owen has throughout his entire career ? Not really. The "how could they ever doubt him" has already happened on this forum to martins. You seem to be making the case that if owen scored, hed probably never score again & wouldnt deserve the claims of "how could they doubt him" or else it makes no sense to be annoyed by that response. Yet realistically, this isnt actually based on anything thats ever happened in real life beyond your opinion is it? Theres nothing to base that assumption on, its the complete opposite of probable based on what Owens done having come of a run of games without goals his entire career. Again, owen probably contributes little because he isnt able to contribute much. Some of you make out as if he used to be 6'4 and 220lbs and hold off defenders with his shadow, hes never changed. You could say hes lost some pace, theres no reason to believe that would have any effect on his quality of distribution with his back to goal which is how he normally gets it. Hes largely the same player that was considered world class, the main difference is the side hes playing in & how much that side plays to his strengths. Its still likely he has brilliant movement, we aren't really able to see that much anymore. The run he made across the defender to get in a header against boro was the same owen whos scored many goals from headers. So its still there. Probably effected by confidence and annoyance. His movement put him through on goal v portsmouth. Another day he's scored 2 in 2 and no one says a thing. Yet most of you see nothing beyond the simplistic "goals scored" to judge a players ability, which makes it even more laughable when you then try to claim that others shouldnt be looking at this./

We're going through the same s*** endlessly here. I still find it hard to look at these crap arguments, so im going to come off as an Owen lover once again. To sum up. Yes owens not been to useful recently. Has he suddenly turned into a disasterously crap player regardless of having easily been our top scorer earlier in the same season. No. Do we play towards Michael Owens strengths anymore. Ie through balls, the kind of which he has scored many of his goals this season. No. Were even the goals on Sunday the result of long balls getting knocked down. Yes. Does that mean that we're still largely playing long balls over through balls. Yes. Does michael Owen have a big enough frame that would suggest he would be good at dealing with long balls. No. Would michael Owen have scored the goal martins scored. No. Would michael Owen have scored the goal lovenkrands scored. Probably. Do people endlessly come up with the same bs about him being ineffective whilst ignoring any arguments as to why this might be beyond the brilliantly logical "Hes turned crap instantly". Yes. Do even the people that are conscious of the arguments as to why he might be playing as he is, then try to turn it into some kind of joke about Owen not getting the service he needs without any reasoning as to why this still isnt simply the truth. Yes. And so round and round we go with the same moronic opinions being backed up by eachother instead of any kind of actual brain power.

Same old story with Barton, if he can keep the passion & lose the temper he'll be very useful. Thats where the hope comes from. Its the same temperament rooney has, except Rooneys lucky enough to be on the winning side near every game so we dont have to see it. The few where they draw even nowadays you arent suprised if he has a swing & very few say anything beyond "oh he needs to sort that out, but the passion is what makes him class". Problem with barton is that his temper doesnt only apply to when hes being competitive like rooney. Als probably his last chance of sorting himself, if he cant do it with time under al...hopefully a new season in the prem..then get rid.

Main story on Skysports today is that hes NOT quitting football lol Hadnt heard any claims he was

If we stay up & al stays on, the class of players we could get in will go up simply from Al being here. Many will like the idea of playing under him, he pushes our clubs status up by himself. So if we're ever going to get new lads in to sort out this team it should be in this next transfer window.

What was up with bassongs header over the bar that came off his back/shoulder, he completely mistimed it. Dont understand how when hes so good at heading from the other end of the pitch.

Afaia Al left Martins out specifically because hes been struggling with his injury/fitness. Why would he suddenly be ok to start now ? Start with viduka/owen upfront easy.

He needs to cut inside more, hes always going out wide & he doesnt have the ability to do much with it from those positions. I reckon he got used to being able to out pace the defenders in la liga & go around the outside before cutting in near the goal line. Here the defenders just stay up with him & he cannot do much. So he needs to just go inside from the off.

He doesnt need to say he was "sold" anything. The fact he chooses that specific word is a clear indication that he believes he was lied to & doesnt deserve what hes gotten. Taylor > Colo at this point easily. Taylors has stepped up far far far more.

Barely scored since xmas ?? Get rid tbh His careers clearly over, he doesnt care anymore

Everyones moaning about our current strike force, but only 8 teams have scored more goals than us. Yes recently its not been to good, but come on......that was never the problem. Earlier in the season we were in the top 6 or something for goals for whilst being in the bottom half. Talk about misdirected moaning. Xisco has been a terrible signing simply because we paid a good amount & no one watching him day in day out has seen him to be good enough to make the step up properly. Watched him a few times in the reserves myself & hes looked average.......id put ranger in front of him. Still think he deserves a chance...just to see whether he just needs some confidence & hope that it wasnt wasted money. But it cannot be argued in anyway that hes been a good signing so far, hes given us nothing whatsoever.

As ive said before, hes a cherry on top kind of player. If the team is passing and moving well...creating chances, he'll start getting goals. He always always does in a decent side. At the moment, we can all see he isnt doing much. Mostly down to us not creating much for him before recently & these last couple games hes just looked out of it. Yet still had two key chances to score goals for us. So that would show that even at his worst he still has the movement. Martins may have scuffed his shot yesterday & gotten lucky, but the control right before it to go past the tackle wasnt luck. That was skill, owen wouldnt have done that & we may not have won because of it. So in terms of Subs, al got it bang on with both of them. Full of running & energy. Still think Owen has a place here though, he's still a class finisher when hes on form...we wont be able to replace that. He could alone be the difference in us going from an average to a good side when hes on form. I reckon under Al he can get him back there. Needs to take a paycut tho yes, should never have been made captain either. Something else i hope AL will sort out. As much as i believe in the lads ability, hes never ever had the mentality of a captain/motivator.

Put it from a 9 to a 6. Cant sway it further towards no chance when we're still so close to the relegation zone. But i really do have a lot more hope now.....fully believe we can get something against Fulham.

It is strange how he always steps up against Boro. Was reading yesterday before the game he'd scored 5 in his last 4 games against them. Then has a blinder of a match and hits the post ? Whatever is in his head when he plays boro needs to stay there, could get another season or two out of him if he stayed consistant/

the way bolton played we cannot rule it out. Atleast now its more in our hands, theyve had the confidence boost...some belief should have come back. We need to capitalize and get another good result v Fulham, atleast another point going into the final game against villa to keep it all rolling.

lol. Still our best finisher & top scorer. You dont lose your ability as a footballer suddenly half way through a season. Has he been largely ineffectual recently, yes. I wanted him off today myself also. Does that mean its all over for him, no. Theres clearly a reason for it & Al can see that as he's said himself. If martins hadnt got a bit of luck for his strike today we'd all be moaning about him still. Instead hes a legend. Its all kneejerk.

The fact he has two assists is a sign that he got into the right places at the right time, which is exactly what we need from a midfielder at this point. He can still be a good signing for us, still a way to go in fully getting his fitness back but he looked better.

If Bolton play like this against Hull we're done

Faye looks quality right now on motd