Altamullan

Looked good and comfortable on the ball, put a couple of good tackles in and just generally worked hard for the team when he came on. Absolutely nothing spectacular, but a promising debut in tough circumstances (Shelvey was starting to look tired and West Ham were trying to put pressure on us). Would feel comfortable with him starting against Watford after that showing.

I've haven't seen the full game game. What did you like about Saivet/what does he bring?

Felt for Chancel, but also wondered whether Elliot could have been a bit sharper. A lot of us have been banging on about need for experienced big/strong CB; mainly to replace Colo. However, even though Colo's form has really picked-up, your right the option of taking Mbemba out of the firing line, perming two from three, still requires a new arrival. I'm a bit worried that Colo's upturn in form, in the same way as his pre-season contractual shenanigans, may scupper seeking a new arrival.

yep, the usual patter is that it doesn't matter what kind of goal it is, in off the shin, arse, knee etc... but I really hope he catches a sweet lash off the laces and buries it. Preferrably one which is low probability to go in and Shearer salivates over on MotD.

Fuckwits that can't appreciate Colback's contribution to the team for example, while so many coaches, managers and ex-players do right? Fuckwittery, in this sense, involves ignoring or not being able to understand the actual issue previously being debated (in the Colback forum), or believing and propogating the delusional chaff which is the actual issue being debated, ie. what they see on the pitch is proof that a player is deliberately playing badly to save their skin/reputation at the expense of the team, that one player is the sole/main reason that the 'top of the pyramid' premiership teams they have played in have struggled with relegation, that people with professional knowledge and day-to-day coaching of the player over his career are biased (due to friendship/not wanting to hurt his feelings-despite having to have the conversation with 99% of the best young players who go through their academies), that anybody who doesn't share these views international manager or fellow fan is clearly wrong/not as proficient at mind reading as they are. Anyway, what doe sthat have to do with not seeing it as vital to applaud Graham Carr for finding Wijnaldum; Dennis Wise could have found this fucker. Doubt it was GC who persuaded him to sign. Who do you fancy applauding for that?

What a f***ing preposterous analogy this is. Mental. The analogy is fine, as analogies go. Main difference is that nobody else is going to do the shot stopping (well, occasional body in the way/on the line may help) whereas Mitro's effectivenss at other aspects of his game (of his kind of striker's game) increase the likelihood of other scoring (metaphorically shot stopping). That said, PLEASE score Alek!

Always try to be fair Matt. No agenda, that I'm aware of...apart form aversion to fuckwits.

Yep well done Graham: established international with around 20 caps, young yet respected captain, his team won the title, Dutch player of the year. Unearthed a hidden gem there and for just under £15m--we bow to your perceptiveness.

More signs and symptoms have been confirmed for this distressing condition (distressing to everyone else that is, sufferers are oblivious; they have no insight into their plight). Tom Down's Syndrome: Toonaphobia Allergic to smell of petrol Unquenchable thirst for Fosters lager Homoerotic fantasies about Dicks (Julian, as well) Microphallically Challenged, i.e. hung like a whippet. Penchant for 1970s-stylee sitcoms and stand-up comedians, typically Till Death Do Us Part and Jim Davidson. Owns and likely mistreats a bull terrier, possibly involving bestiality due to sexual inadequacies (see Microphallic criterion). Common-law wife likely to resemble Waynetta Slob (won't be married due to lengthy narrative covering many perceived injustices around benefits and likely to feature asylum seekers.) Lives on pies and chips (conceals deep shame about dislike of jellied eels). Refusal of foreign muck food (like his wife's pizza, which she binge eats to compensate for lack of home-reared sausage). Geographically confused - persistently claims badlands of Brentwood's social housing is actually in the heart of the Eastend of Laaaaan-din. Tic disorder causing exuberant clapping on aeroplane landings. Two common forms of facial abnormality: 1) resembling an inbred Royal with learning disabilities; 2) a female sexual organ, a complete one. Pathological dependence on advice from mythical caring grandfather - all TDS suffers have unfortunately evidently never been loved. Unnatural attachment to child's bubble blowing paraphernalia: unexplained, and unexplainable. If you have reason to believe you are in the proximity of a TDS sufferer, please administer short sharp shock via forehead or fist; it can be therapeutic, at least it can be for the rest of society.

Right hand is.

Tom Down's Syndrome: Toonaphobia Allergic to smell of petrol Unquenchable thirst for Fosters lager Homoerotic fantasies about Dicks (Julian, as well) Penchant for 1970s sitcoms Owns and mistreats a bull terrier Common-law wife resembles Waynetta Slob Lives on pies and chips Refusal of foreign muck food (like his wife's pizza) Microphallically challenged - hung like a hamster. Geographically confused - claims Brentwood is in Eastend of Laaaaan-din. Tic disorder causing clapping on aeroplane take-offs and landings Two common forms of facial abnormality: 1) resembling an inbred Royal with learning disabilities; 2) a female sexual organ, a complete one.

What do you reckon the main signs and symptoms would be?

That would pretty much be my take on him too. With a bit more self-belief and aggression he would be a much better player. Even if this happened, through competition, coaching, maturity or whatever, he is never going to be the kind of box to box combative player or playmaker needed at the heart of the team.

Tom Down ‏@TomDown3 Jan 16 Yates in Newcastle where the West Ham are⚒⚒⚒ @hammers_chat @westhamfantv @KingdomOfWHAM @GoateeJoe f***ing knew it. Who the f*** gans in Yates's? They do nice pint of Fosters....

A flaming good name...

TRon, read first bit of #7107. It's not so much about making a case for what he brings as about not talking shite about the reasons for his lack of impact.

Liverpool &a Man U, both involved in thrilling 3-3s and then this. It is a funny old game...

I'm saying that the fans of a football team are in the best position to view things objectively, yeah. We only see what matters, aren't as clouded with unimportant factors, watch our team more than most and have no reason to want anything other than the best for the club. My rant regarding Colback's intentions don't really matter. They're merely my perception of him based on the way that he plays. What drives it is neither here nor there if he's not good enough either way, it's merely another stick to hit a player with who is imo of no value to the team. To me he's either a cowardly footballer or an unintelligent, untalented one. Either way, I can't stand him. Don't think 'fanatics' are well placed to view things objectively, it means to much too us. And as previously commented on we/people can and do see things differently, whether fans or not. Also, there are many who, on the assumption that it is for the greater good, don't want the best for the club; at least not at present. We probably don't disagree that much re his value to the team at the mo but your rant about his intentions matters to me Kid, and I suspect to others. It's good to have a place to share our frustrations about players of the fickle finger of fate or whatever. Don't think you do yourself justice by expressing fixed views about something you can't know about, and reads as an opportunity to pelt somebody, basically bully someone you can't stand. You can't know either way, that's just how I see it in his case. I think you've made your points well but the bit about bullying him is very far-fetched. I can't stand him as a player and do think that he's a coward. I express that on a forum and back it up with examples that I think back it up, but I'm not screaming at him from the terraces, tweeting him directly or being slanderous. I'm criticising his professionalism as I see it and putting forward the reason why he gets away with it as being because he plays the 'didn't do anything wrong' game deliberately. I'm not claiming to know, gave up on my Derren Brown aspirations sometime ago, and not denying your right to an opinion. Just saying, same as 14 posts ago, that your opinions about his intentions seem a bit paranoid and deliberate, as you reiterate above. Fair point though, stick and stones versus words is 'to the power of ten' if the words aren't even heard/are totally irrelevant.

I like to imagine him as a Shelby from Peaky Blinders- East London branch. Can see Tom Hardy nailing the part!

[quote author=Kid Icarus link=topic=95326.msg5843930#msg5843930 date=1453042986 I'm saying that the fans of a football team are in the best position to view things objectively, yeah. We only see what matters, aren't as clouded with unimportant factors, watch our team more than most and have no reason to want anything other than the best for the club. My rant regarding Colback's intentions don't really matter. They're merely my perception of him based on the way that he plays. What drives it is neither here nor there if he's not good enough either way, it's merely another stick to hit a player with who is imo of no value to the team. To me he's either a cowardly footballer or an unintelligent, untalented one. Either way, I can't stand him. Don't think 'fanatics' are well placed to view things objectively, it means too much to us. Though not everybody is equally 'black and white' in their thinking. And as previously commented on we/people can and do see things differently, whether fans or not. Also, there are many who, on the assumption that it is for the greater good, don't want the best for the club; at least not at present. We probably don't disagree that much re his value to the team at the mo but your rant about his intentions matters to me Kid, and I suspect to others. It's good to have a place to share our frustrations about players of the fickle finger of fate or whatever. Don't think you do yourself justice by expressing fixed views about something you can't know about, and it reads as an opportunity to pelt somebody, basically bully someone you can't stand.

Are you trying to tell me that Jack Colback is widely highly rated? No. I think he plays in a premiership foootball team, returns standard/decent stats for his position, and has had an international call-up because his mother is on best terms with Pardew's beautician.

Your conclusion (he's a worthless footballer and you wouldn't have him in your team) makes sense to me, based on how you interpret his actions on the pitch, plus no doubt the absence of meaningful end-product (assists, goals, key tackles). However, it all sounds a bit paranoid and deliberate, if I 'm honest. It 'seeming like' he is avoiding criticism, trying to hide, faking good by appearing to run around a bit, but doing it to fool people, primarily. Basically trying to advance his lot by not putting himself in the firing line, which is the reason why Sunderland and Newcastle were/are knocking around the bottom of the league. If this was true, who would want a toxic weasel (great name for a band btw!) like that in their side? That said, is there a particular reason why you think you ("and a lot of people") can see this, and others (including football managers, Premiership and International, a multitude of coaches over the years, ex-pros, pundits, including respected central midfielders/who know the range of functions performed in that position) can't? And given, if I understand it correctly, what really annoys you about him is his attitude/intention to deceive & be self-serving, and by defintion you can't see this, you have to infer it as an explanation for the behaviour you can observe, how do you know you're right? What would have to happen for you to change your mind? Might another expalnation not be a closer fit? Essentially if it's not a case of him being smart enough to pull the wool over people's eyes then he's simply an honest but very unintelligent, and fundamentally poor footballer imo. I don't invest in pundit or ex-pro opinions because they're tainted by professional and personal relationships. I can only guess why managers see more than we do, but it's rare that managers don't look favourably on working hard in training, despite being awful at the weekend. It's how Shola stole a living. Fortunately we're in the unique position of seeing only the moments when it actually counts and judging players on that rather than who they are, what their attitude's like, whether their teammates like them, whether they're good in training or not. Our judgement begins and ends for the most part with how they perform during matches and very little else, which is really all that matters. Which is really just saying others' views are biased and yours is objective? Not ever a compelling argument, but particularly not when your main rants re this player are to do with what drives his behaviour, not about his behaviour. Don't disagree that he hasn't pulled his weight (in the main) this season. Don't disagree that it will be good to try Saivet there. Just sick of reading scapegoating of his intentions, things which we can't know about and which, to be frank, are more applicable to the sub-title of this thread than anything JC serves up on the pitch.

A sack-wards slide...now there's something to look forward to.

Your conclusion (he's a worthless footballer and you wouldn't have him in your team) makes sense to me, based on how you interpret his actions on the pitch, plus no doubt the absence of meaningful end-product (assists, goals, key tackles). However, it all sounds a bit paranoid and deliberate, if I 'm honest. It 'seeming like' he is avoiding criticism, trying to hide, faking good by appearing to run around a bit, but doing it to fool people, primarily. Basically trying to advance his lot by not putting himself in the firing line, which is the reason why Sunderland and Newcastle were/are knocking around the bottom of the league. If this was true, who would want a toxic weasel (great name for a band btw!) like that in their side? That said, is there a particular reason why you think you ("and a lot of people") can see this, and others (including football managers, Premiership and International, a multitude of coaches over the years, ex-pros, pundits, including respected central midfielders/who know the range of functions performed in that position) can't? And given, if I understand it correctly, what really annoys you about him is his attitude/intention to deceive & be self-serving, and by defintion you can't see this, you have to infer it as an explanation for the behaviour you can observe, how do you know you're right? What would have to happen for you to change your mind? Might another expalnation not be a closer fit?

Sunderland need to build pretty much a whole new team. We've a few midfielders now surplass to requirements...