Kid Icarus

Wenger probably had to end, but he never failed like, and they entered their decade long banter era when he left. Rodgers is a good shout, similar to Leicester too. Redknapp never had the chance to fail, he was sacked after a 4th place finish. Pellegrini, 4th and a League Cup isn't toooo bad like.

That bit that gets forgot about Pochettino was them focussing on the Champions League, wasn't it? The way Spurs treated him was a joke and they've never been the same since. The Rodgers example is a good one I think. From what I remember he'd ran the players into the ground, the injuries got ridiculous, and everything collapsed. The Howe one (aside from it being Howe obviously) isn’t though really, those 9th, 12th, 14th positions were 46, 44, 45 points, so it was more steady than it wad a decline that couldn't be halted, until the following season.

You got examples? Managers with prolonged success, who then have a bad season, see it through to next season, and then things either don't improve or get worse.

Fantastic argument. Delusion and what you think you're entitled to is obviously linked to what the reality is. Liverpool fans' expectation of success isn't a delusion because for the most part that's been their reality, whereas for us it hasn't so an expectation of success is much more of a delusion. Don't think anything about that is controversial like.

I know, and I'm saying that we are.

Points % wise it's a worse yeah. Ours is about a 25% drop off, their's 29%. These drop offs that I've been looking at over the years that often coincide with squad overhauls seem to be 20 to 25%, so nearly 30% when their title winning points total was low to begin with isn't great like. I can't use it as an example of clubs sticking by managers in those situations now though.

The reactions are very comparable yeah, but the contexts that each are happening in couldn't be more different, that's why they're different. Liverpool fans having an expectation of winning x, y, or z season on season isn't really a delusion.

What entitled/deluded means at each of those levels is obviously very different.

One major honor in 57 years vs, what, probably 50 odd in the same time frame?

Already was.

The most moral football club in the world

It really feels like the end of an era. Staveley and Ghodoussi leaving was big, Isak felt like another step away, but Gordon and especially Trippier in the same summer feels huge.

R.I.P Notorious B.I.G. Long live B-Unit.

Jesus wept

Lock up your daughters Wolverhampton. Hope they come back up and if he manages to have the impact he had here off and on the field then I'd back them to.

Possibly yeah, but then the only way is down from Barca.

Am I the only one that thinks it's just about what he's worth? Not a bargain, not a rip off. Gordon with motivation is a fantastic player, and I'd expect this move to give him that. That's before getting on to how much easier La Liga should be for him in theory.

He also wasn't ITK like. He struck lucky with a post immediately before we signed Isak and then had fail after fail.

I'd say it matters very much, you don't have the reality of the situation now without the cause of that reality. Both clubs didn't have honours or prestige to lean on to attract players, so they had to lean on regular unrestrained investment and the ambition to win to get them over the line. Villa and us don't have that and are bound by a set of rules that artificially hold us back in a way those two and more didn't have. Put it this way, if us and Villa could spend what we wanted and started winning stuff, you, me and everyone would be saying that we got there with money. The only thing we'd disagree on would be whether that makes us and Villa unique. Of course Liverpool, Man United, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal etc have more pull than us, it's about how that pull is created and restrained that's crucial imo.

I have a vague memory of Brown having one really good reason at RB

Ignoring the ones that just didn't make it, it's easily Robbie Savage.

Bringing up Chelsea and Man City as clubs that players are attracted to because of their prestige and honours should be setting off alarm bells while you're making the point imo, because the root cause doesn't stop there. We all know that they're the last of the new money clubs who were allowed to spend freely. Their prestige and honours didn't just happen organically, they're the return on the unrestricted investment that allows them to keep attracting the best players, keep winning, keep making revenue in the PSR era, and for it all to be a positive feedback loop for them. And that positive feedback loop they're in, that no one else is allowed to start up with investment, applies to more than just those two.

So we've heard...

I'm just basing this on gut feeling here, but my impression with quite a few of the players that we've signed was much more that they were getting in at the ground level at a club that was going to be at that level, rather than coming here to then go to another club that's already there.