St. Maximin

Agree that’s who the most genuine concern should be when it comes to ‘sportswashing’. The human rights issues are what KSA does to people and not how they’re trying to improve their reputation, not that that’s what it’s solely about anyway. It would be weird and inconsistent if this takeover was blocked on sportswashing grounds as the likes of AI wanted, as it’s not a legal issue, but can still understandably make people feel uncomfortable - someone who cheers the team on and the success their money might bring would typically feel more uneasy than others who gain no benefit from it. Regarding the success of sportswashing, I think it’s a bit different to whitewashing as it isn’t really covering up the acts, but giving more positive coverage in addition. There aren’t other similar words currently as you say, but isn’t trying to improve a reputation typical for all sorts of entities (including businesses, organisations etc) that have and can do harmful things? In fact some could say we did it over here in 2005 by winning the Olympics not long after invading Middle Eastern countries. Ultimately though I’m not sure it’s about being seen as more likeable, but more about relevant and intertwined with our culture and politics for economic benefit primarily. I don’t think all their investment in football has really made them seem more likeable or improved a reputation. It’s no doubt helped western tourism and bizarrely gained a small number of apologists within our fanbase, but for all the attention they’ve gained for sport, they’ve also gained it for human rights issues. And the Saudi league by and large seems to be another reason to be annoyed at the country right now. Appreciate maybe that will change in time though.

Well done Adam. Only thing more he could have done is disable the comments. Actually think as well as being thick a lot of our fans are really weird. Who said you had to like your owners? You can appreciate them taking over your club, but they’re ultimately here to make money in some way or another and you don’t owe them anything.

I don’t get why people say that’s not offside under the rules? The lines are not going to be parallel with the pitch lines due to the camera angle.

Ah fair, actually didn’t know that. That was kind of tongue in cheek about Newcastle but I prefer it in the corner - just think it’s better if your home fans are directly behind both goals.

Home teams putting their away fans right behind a goal. It’s way too close and looks ridiculous seeing them either cheer an away goal or stay quiet when the home team scores. Stuffing them right at the top is one thing Newcastle have always got right.

He persists with his favourites and that stops us from being as good as we should be come the start of a tournament, while he seems very inconsistent with his decisions. His reluctance to play Foden intitially in Qatar was disappointing and I understand it’s due to him not playing centrally for club, but he’s picking players who never play anywhere for club. He seems to like players he can ‘rely’ on too, but sometimes being reliable isn’t really enough.

Not sure class has much to do with it and that kind of prejudice works both ways. The majority of English footballers seem to come from working class backgrounds. I agree on his accent (more as it’s scouse) and looks though, which definitely unfairly create a more negative perception of someone.

Don’t buy the ‘fickle’ comments in general from football fans about others. Firstly who says it’s the same people and secondly why can’t you criticise people when they’re getting a lot wrong, just because they have been excellent? No one should be above criticism. I’m sure his critics still love him and so they should. He needs to find some form though and maybe he doesn’t go about things the right way. He’ll be back though.

Agree but I think very few people seem to be supporters of KSA. I think those that do feel the need to defend them are probably getting a bit defensive or trying to justify the takeover to themselves.

Surely the point is more to add context in response to all the criticism of Newcastle fans being comfortable with this? Does anyone else feel ever so more increasingly more comfortable the longer we’ve been owned by KSA and the better we’ve become? At first there was much needed relief and we were also fighting relegation. Now we’re in the CL, spending increasingly more money and constantly surrounded by positivity, I’m worrying a bit more perhaps out of guilt given all the abuses continuing to go on while we’re out celebrating the significant impacts of Saudi investment. Not that we ourselves have anything to apologise for.

Sure it would be very shocking to potentially see (a very small and stupid minority of) Newcastle fans cheering MBS on, but you’d hope the club realised inviting him would be a clear own goal. His brother attending the Carabao Cup final didn’t make much news but nobody knows who he is.

I would agree and cynically I also think many people that do genuinely care about human rights aren’t really bothered about sportswashing, but use it to make their concerns about human rights seem relevant and topical. I’m not sure what benefit it really has to fighting human rights abuses by ensuring we have a negative opinion on certain countries, but maybe that’s me not understanding the issues enough. Where I do feel rival fans can comment here with more legitimate frustrations is the ‘separation’ stuff.

Also enjoyed the second episode more than the first. It’s been mentioned before we don’t have to like the people running our club, but they seem very likeable and genuine. When the corporate world can often be quite cold and ruthless, that shouldn’t be overlooked. Might just my way of seeing things though, but even with the cup final defeat it’s so positive it feels a bit cheesy. Quite like the broader range of emotion you get in other series, but that would probably come at a cost of the team struggling more…

Also depends who you count as ‘owners’. I’ve seen the phrase being used to talk about Staveley and co and how great they are (which seems fair). Also heard it being used to refer to the PIF/Saudi state and even that MBS fella. I think it’s not fair to label the state as a load of evil murderers, but MBS has ‘accepted responsibility’ for a journalist murdered under his leadership and we did largely support and celebrate his state taking us over after all.

It comes across differently when written - if you watch the video it’s clearly lighthearted and he has a chuckle, presumably in relation to Tindall. Sure he might be a whingebag but he’s just having a laugh here and we shouldn’t get wound up by that.

Ultimately people pick and choose how much they want to associate the country’s human rights record and morality of its dictator to its investing and growing involvement in our economy and culture. There’s no objectively right moral position here and I don’t really care what varying positions our fans might take here. I personally think while we can still argue about the government selling arms or other clubs having evil owners too, I don’t feel fully satisfied with those justifications. I’m more happy to just say we aren’t celebrating a dictator here - the Saudi state is massive rather than just MBS and his murdering cronies, it is doing what it can do develop economically and if reputation comes into it then it has every right to. Every company or country that has bad press wants to improve its reputation and it’s not like everything or person to do with them are evil and should be made to suffer etc. The fans who decide to become KSA apologists are of course idiots, but they make up a small proportion of our fanbase and also despite being idiots I think many are probably smart enough to realise there’s a moral dilemma here. It’s just their way of justifying it to themselves. Where I do feel uncomfortable is when I try and be empathetic and think this can’t be nice to see if you’re a victim of the state’s brutal acts, like Khashoggi’s family or those locked up unfairly. Is it wrong to concern ourselves with what they think seeing Saudi influence being celebrated? Or when I’m considering other scenarios, like if Russia bought the club instead - aside from the obvious practicalities, would that actually be any less defendable?

Ultimately it’s pretty normal to vote selfishly so it’s not at all surprising the Reubens (and apparently Staveley and Ghodoussi) vote for the party that financially benefits them the most. I get the anger at people voting Tory, but politics is complex and you don’t have to agree with every policy to vote for a party. I doubt they go to the polling station consciously thinking about how keen they are to see more food banks also even if their vote contributes to it. But yeah either way, the other 80% is (the investment fund of) a state with a horrendous human rights record and clearly very evil dictator, so moral issues resulting from our other owners’ charitable deeds pale in comparison.

There’s nothing wrong with that. I’d already given him loads of praise. I’m sure my comment was pretty minor too in the grand scheme of things.

Yes I agree. That was a joke I should make pretty clear relating to a different conversation.

Not in a million years. Thanks for pointing out I forgot to explain that one too.

Look I just said I don’t want to see diving. Pretty sure people on here have said it about Miggy, Joelinton and Wilson before and certainly complained about players like Alli and Grealish doing it. I don’t get this sudden change of reaction. Hardly a controversial opinion

Sorry, I should expect mocking from a load of people behind s keyboard for saying I don’t like someone’s cheating. If you guys don’t mind it I’m sure you can cope with my difference of opinion. The Tory bit was a joke before you get too upset.

Stop being a moron, I’m just stating my opinion. Absolutely ridiculous the way people jump on someone’s back here for having a difference of opinion. I’m sure none of you have ever complained about anyone else diving.

I agree they (and defenders in general) should be criticised for antics like shirt-pulling etc. Strikers of course foul too even without the diving fwiw. I just said I didn’t like it, having talked up what a player he is. It’s not going to change anything. Each to their own but hardly worth the reaction I’ve got

If he’s conning the same refs and defenders who screwed him over I can defend him more, but he’s not.