St. Maximin

After the way he turned the club round and the success he brought them he deserved more respect than the classless way he was treated in his last year. Pretty much this. Wanting a change ok. Going in and in for years and getting more bitter and aggressive about it in the way that they did wasn’t. I found the lengths many of the fans went to bizarre, though when you feel like you’re continuously stagnating over a few years and the manager is unwilling to budge, I can understand them getting tireless. I think Arteta may well be a fine manager in time, but he looks devoid of ideas currently and four home defeats in a row is pretty concerning. That said his squad is shocking and the likes of Xhaka and Pepe really haven’t helped him out. Also what is Xhaka supposed to be good at? Still trying to work this out.

VAR is a good idea in theory. I can live with the risk of muted celebrations if major errors are overturned because ultimately people want to see good decisions. I think the average team/fans aren’t going to be too distraught that they conceded a goal to a player whose hand was offside. No method completely works, but daylight would be sufficient to determine ‘clear and obvious’ while maintaining the linesman’s influence. Even the 10cm rule should eradicate a lot of these stupidly close calls. Just personally glad I play hockey and don’t have to deal with any kind of offside rule...

It says a lot when he’s not even the best player on the pitch called Jeff.

Not to worry, Darren Farley is genuinely a far more insightful pundit than these fools

¨ Doesn't this apply to every England manager since SBR? Now you’ve said it... yes ?

I think Sancho and Sterling, while still great players, are heavily reliant on the quality and style of play of their team. They’re intelligent, but will always have space to run into and team mates to make the right runs off. They don’t have the technical ability of Grealish, who is terrific and England need to build the team around. I still think there’s things to like about Southgate, but with the quality he has available he’s frustrating. We don’t have great centre-backs, so he compensates by playing a third one and removing an attacker, meaning we have a disproportionate amount of attacking quality on the bench. He then chooses to start with Mount, who (while still a fine player) is an underwhelming winger choice. Kane, Grealish and Mount are not a quick front three and I’d like to think he wouldn’t be first choice if/when Sterling, Sancho, Rashford, Ings and Calvert-Lewin are also available. Then you’ve got a midfield four comprising of two full-backs and an uninspiring CM pairing of a CB/DM and a box-to-box midfielder with no goals in 57 caps...

People voted for Brexit and the Tories. They'll believe what they're told. True, but it really doesn’t matter what ignorant people think ultimately. Unfortunately Bruce won’t go soon regardless. I barely even think there’s much point slating fanbases of other teams for their opinions. Chances are they’re better informed on their managers having paid far more attention to their team.

As frustrating as it is seeing his mates defend him in the media, does the general public really care for the people talking? There’s very few pundits who seem to be universally respected and that certainly doesn’t include people like Lawro, Pardew, Sherwood, Pulis etc. On the other hand Sky have shared enough stats that reflect terribly on Bruce - I really doubt the public ignores them and simply forms their opinion based on some idiot pundits.

Bit confused by the end-product criticism. He was out top scorer last season (yes the FA Cup opposition did help) having not scored until December. Technically also got his first assist just before that, but has been involved in so many others before and after that. Pace and work rate aside I don’t think there’s anything amazing to his game, but clearly when he’s played left-wing/attacking-mid he’s been very influential imo even if the stats don’t show it.

not taking the p*ss, but genuinely asking which players are playing for him? even last season it was only really ASM. All of them look to be playing for him in my view. There doesn’t seem to be signs of bad attitudes like there have in the past. I mean if it’s not for him, then they’re at least showing the right attitude that’s helping us keep up the fight. Whether they’re all playing well or used the they should be is a different matter...

It is wrong I mean this is what I don’t get here... insult him constantly with regular references to his weight and appearance, but say one thing in praise of him? Nope, shocking...

I know it feels wrong praising him, but he probably has got something right tbh with all the luck he’s getting. We all know he hasn’t a clue tactically, but I do think the players are playing for him and he has the dressing room. Yes that will only get you so far, but he surely has something going for him to have kept getting managerial jobs. Doesn’t mean he’s a good manager overall. Compare that to how the players acted under McClaren or Kinnear though. Luck runs out eventually, like with Pardew. Even with his 5th place finish, I think his luck was more down to the teams around us. We were lucky Chelsea and Liverpool had poor seasons, but imo had the 7th best squad and came 5th due to them, so it wasn’t that extraordinary really.

This is like paying for a prostitute and acting as though you actually conquered a woman. The result is the result, but this was given and not earned. That’s a cracking analogy but doesn’t explain why a defeat is more pleasing. I’m not ecstatic at all but I’ll take the point as whoever is our manager, I don’t want us relegated. Understood, but personally I am describing why I derive no true pleasure from this at all, not describing why I would prefer the team to lose. This also gives me no pleasure. Some people on here actively support the team to fail, which is their right, but I am not one of these people, frankly. At the end of the season, one more point is appreciated, but when that match ended, my initial reaction was anger at the state of officiating in the sport, tbh. Fair enough, to be honest I agree. I don’t get much pleasure from this but getting a point was some slight relief as I feel we’re in for a tough season. And I guess it was kind of amusing if nothing else. Just seems some people as you say want the team to lose, which I agree is their right but likewise I gain no pleasure from that.

This is like paying for a prostitute and acting as though you actually conquered a woman. The result is the result, but this was given and not earned. That’s a cracking analogy but doesn’t explain why a defeat is more pleasing. I’m not ecstatic at all but I’ll take the point as whoever is our manager, I don’t want us relegated. My hope is that doing badly enough means we have to change manager before it's too late and we manage to stumble on someone even half decent. Hard to imagine anyone worse than Bruce. Although, knowing Ashley he'd probably manage it. I can’t see anyone decent coming in with Ashley in charge. Bruce is sadly the sort of manager we’d expect. For all his flaws he’s some good spells/seasons. Not like he’s of John Carver ilk.

Because the manager is terrible and at this point almost anyone else would be better. He shouldn't be in the job. I don’t rate the manager or disagree he shouldn’t be in the job, but I’m not going to be annoyed at a point away to Spurs, jammy as it was. If it looked like Bruce leaving was imminent and we’d get a top manager in then fair enough... but can’t see either of those happening soon. Anyway many fans don’t rate their own managers but that’s football - no point letting it ruin everything.

This is like paying for a prostitute and acting as though you actually conquered a woman. The result is the result, but this was given and not earned. That’s a cracking analogy but doesn’t explain why a defeat is more pleasing. I’m not ecstatic at all but I’ll take the point as whoever is our manager, I don’t want us relegated.

It was a crap performance mostly and very jammy but why wouldn’t you be more pleased with the draw than defeat? It was (tightly or wrongly) in the rules. Because Bruce is lucky and going to get praised again foolishly? I mean yeah that’s annoying but why care too much about that? ?

Still sticking what I said before about him deserving praise if things go well, but thankfully I’m more than happy to criticise him when he has a shocker. He decided to set us up exactly the same way as he did last week against a completely different team. If you need good evidence for why he’s not a good manager, there you have it. Also I don’t care that Carroll is a local lad and loves the Toon; he’s still crap. Poor handling of Almiron so far.

The arrogance of this post lol. A LV special. Yeah, irony as well. ?

What a ridiculous post. I’ve made some perfectly reasonable points I appreciate not everyone will agree with and all you can say is I ‘don’t get it’ and must be a ‘win’ or ‘incapable of understanding the truth’. Thanks for showing me why I’m wrong. I don’t think Steve Bruce should ‘f**k off’ and am really upset because he’s kissing his boss’s arse. I just don’t care. I don’t rate him as a manager or admire him as a bloke but he hasn’t done horrible things here and I’m happy to praise him if things go well. Sorry that’s not acceptable here.

Exactly. But why does that lead to such levels hatred and hostility? Does Lascelles get the same? He’s talking about his boss. I personally don’t really care. It’s not a disgraceful and insulting thing to the fans etc. I’d rather he didn’t say that, but stuff like that still gets blown out of proportion. If someone is not a fan of the bloke anyway then people will react worse to fairly harmless stuff.

If you don’t know by now or can’t see it, you never will. So, it’s pointless answering you. As Lao Tzu said ‘The water in the well cannot contemplate the ocean’ Not sure what you’re trying to say mate? See what? I’m perfectly open to being proven wrong but either why I’m interested in seeing why people’s views differ as I only know so much in fairness. However, I feel I made some fair points... if they’re wrong I’m happy to hear why.

Interesting post. Some good points made. Great post, however the Bruce comments I personally feel are wrong. Bruce continually mentioned Rafa either directly or indirectly and put him down at every opportunity. "This team only know how to play one way". I mean come on, that comment alone was slanderous. Bruce couldn't lace Rafa's boots and anyone who thinks otherwise just don't comprehend football and the tactics involved. Yeah I agree Bruce couldn’t lace Rafa’s boots and good points on the comments, but I don’t think he was being slanderous personally; at least not consciously making digs. He’s not the smartest with how he presents himself in the media, but to me that reads more like a poor excuse for himself than a dig at Rafa, hence why he was prepared to adopt his formation for a while.

Barely posted on here but enjoy reading the posts. I find the differing views on Rafa and Bruce across the fan base groups interesting. Personally I loved Rafa. A very smart tactician who engaged superbly with the fans. Definitely did a fine job under limited resources and I agree with anyone who says he was poorly backed. I also don’t think he’s a miracle worker though and hasn’t been ‘world class’ for years (you’d think he’d be doing better in China if so). Finishing mid-table after promotion isn’t miraculous given how poor most of the league is and at times we were very poor at home. If things didn’t go well he’d always have the lack of investment defence that Bruce doesn’t get, but he still had a better squad. I mean Joelinton wasn’t an upgrade on Rondon and Perez, £40m or not. Obviously some more freedom would have helped, but personally we weren’t astonishing in the Championship - should have walked that league imo. I think he still has limitations even with stronger players basically. As with Bruce, well I’m not a fan like everyone else here but why do people get annoyed about him receiving praise when things go well? That’s how it works with managers - the team does well and they get praised generally. For all his tactical limitations and at times horrendous football, the players are playing for him so fair play. It may not work long-term but I think he’s getting some things right. Also why all the hatred? Sure if the Saudis came in we’d have him replaced, but why should he ‘f**k off’ as opposed to be replaced? He hasn’t done anything unpleasant here. Is it because he’s a yes man? Backed better than Rafa? Left a team none of us care about because they wanted more compensation? All true but I can’t say they bother me about him - I’m just really indifferent to him.

To be fair I can’t speak for early in his career, but he doesn’t have a terrible record at any of those clubs surely. I think he did well at Birmingham City. He’s probably for what it’s worth a decent ‘man manager’, but his tactical limitations won’t get him anywhere long-term. He shouldn’t be our manager long-term, but he’s not done anything despicable and I don’t want him to ‘f*** off’ - just get replaced with Poch tbh.