Newcastle United 1 - 4 Portsmouth - 03/11/07 - Post match reaction from page 21

[ChezGiven]

Richards spent last season at right back so any partnership he's got with Dunne has been built this season.

 

People looking to make excuses for Allardyce when the truth is Sven is simply a better coach.

 

He's also got better players imo.

 

No he hasn't.

 

Elano, Petrov, Richards, maybe Dunne would get into a best 11 out of the two squads.

 

And Johnson and there is fuck all between the rest. What were these shit tactics today btw, i've asked enough times now.

 

Asked who? Me?

 

Were you complaining about the tactics?

 

You tell me.

 

No i think you should clear it up

 

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=46582.msg1060560#msg1060560

 

 

 

His tactics have been shocking at times, playing for a point at Reading with no pace in midfield, Alan Smith on the right wing, playing Milner as a part of a 3 man strike force.

 

You think these are good tactics, Chez?

 

I think we got beat by a better side today, Capello in charge of Spartans wouldnt beat Arsenal.

[merlin]

Saw the start of the game, then went to bed - we are now 9 hours in front of UK due to Daylight Saving last week-end, and the  writing was on the wall by 12.10 midnight our time......

 

Unlike some eternal optimists who thought our next lot of fixtures were relatively easy, I was unsurprised by this defeat, although the size of it WAS a shock  - I saw Pompey play at Chelsea earlier in the season, and thought they looked a decent side, unlucky to lose by 1 goal....

Last night, they finished the game as a contest within 10 minutes of kick-off and each of the 2 goals was a peach - Harper had NO chance with either of them, and the second was a good example of SUCCESSFUL

'Long Ball tactics - a shrewd, well-weighted pass that put the forward in with an equal chance against the defender(UNLIKE our hopeful punts upfield in the general direction of the opposition goal) ; Pompey also displayed some excellent passing and possession at speed, something I have been complaining about since it is almost absent from Newcastle's performances - we can't keep the ball OR pass it properly to save our lives..

 

I say again, as I did after the last 2 away defeats - there is something wrong with the coaching and training. There is obviously NO emphasis on fast, passing possession, simply a hit & hope long ball policy.

 

The shape of the side continues to baffle me, with players continually played out of position, AND beginning to look demoralised and fed up with the situation....

 

As for what can be done - well , the answer is VERY LITTLE ; we are going to go to the SOS next week under huge pressure - whilst anything is possible in these games, I think that most sensible fans will believe we now go there as underdogs, a situation which hasn't occurred for many years, but I for one will not be surprised if they turn us over, although a heavy defeat would really set the alarm bells ringing.

 

I cannot believe that the manager will be sacked unless things get really bad, i.e.we drop into the bottom 4 by Christmas - there simply isn't another option available to the club at present...

Ashley is too shrewd not to realise how difficult it will be to try to get a decent replacement before the season's end , and we are probably No 1 on the 'List to Avoid' of Top-Class managers due to our wonderful record in that dept over the past 4 years...SO - its likely to be the status quo for the foreseeable future.

As I said before after other defeats - its not the actual DEFEAT that is so bad - its the MANNER of them, and many more will result in a loss of morale amongst the players.

 

There is ONE nagging fear at the back of my mind regarding personnel - that is, maybe the Man City fans

were partly right in their warnings about Barton and his influence OFF the field - the last 2 performances, when he was a starting part of the side, have been lacking in any spirit whatsoever....

 

These are bad days, and its batten-down-the-hatches time.

[macbeth]

Richards spent last season at right back so any partnership he's got with Dunne has been built this season.

 

People looking to make excuses for Allardyce when the truth is Sven is simply a better coach.

 

Hardly an even comparison is it?   How many seasons have Dunne and Richards played together? The backline today and in most other games this season has been brand new, in every single respect. Two signings of which were made with minutes to go until the end of the deadline!

 

Agree about Sven being a better manager nevertheless. But if you can't give credit for the work Allardyce has done with the backline, as bad as it was for eleven minutes today, then it'll be difficult for you to credit him for anything.

 

But what has improved ?

 

The players are different, the players are individually more likable, but colldctively as a densive unit they are no better than last year's lot.

 

The home results are roughly the same:

 

 

 

Last year

Villa 3-1

Wigan 2-1

West Ham 2-2

Everton 1-1

Spurs 3-1

Portsmouth 1-0

Total 4 wins, 2 draws, 14 points,  12-6 on aggregate

 

 

This year

Villa 0-0

Wigan 1-0

West Ham 3-1

Everton 3-2

Spurs 3-1

Portsmouth 1-4

 

Total 4 wins, one draw, 13 points, 11- 8 on aggregate

 

 

We've been delighted with our home form but it hasn't changed, we just happened to have plaeyd no one any good.

 

Away from home we have 4 poitns instead of 2 against the same sides.

 

Nothing has changed. After 6 months in the job, (or being more kind and saying a thrid of the way into the season) nothing has changed.

 

Even those unsure of how Allardyce woudl be admited he'd sort out the defence. Clearly he hasn't. Most people were worried about the perception that Bolton played HOOF football. When we have Viduka in the side there is a logic in playign liek that, even if I don't like it. To play HOOF at Martins and Owen is just madness.

 

I've seen nothign yet to suggest Allardyce has moved us on. He may have given us the perception that things have changed by bringing in new faces. But the results haven't changed.

 

 

[Guest scousertommy]

Richards spent last season at right back so any partnership he's got with Dunne has been built this season.

 

People looking to make excuses for Allardyce when the truth is Sven is simply a better coach.

 

Who knows? Maybe he is. Maybe he isn't. I know many people 5 months ago would have gone ape-s*** had we appointed Sven. It's pure knee jerk because his team is better than ours at the minute.

 

I think it's fair to say that when you compare Svens record to that of Allardyces then you can't seriously doubt who the better manager is. Ask yourself this, if Allardyce is as good as he(and his many friends in the media) say that he is then why was he never even considered for the LFC job when Houllier left or the Chelsea job when Ranieri was given thew boot?

 

As for the people saying that Big Sam is just building foundations and the flair will come later - I'm sorry to say I can't see it at all, he's noit known at all for having "flair" in his teams - he's all about hard work and set pieces.

[Mick]

Anyone who thinks we lost today because of allardyce needs to take a step back and think for a second. The only peculiar thing today was the use of Zog and Milner, although at times it worked (especially Zog when he was cutting inside).

 

Sam could not have done anything about the first 3 goals. Number 2 and 3 were particularly amatuerish.

 

And to say his tactics weren't good is stupid looking at today.

 

Do you really think tactics come into it when you're 3 nil down after 11 mins?

 

In that situation the players take it into their own hands to perform in a way that will help them get back into the game. Our players seemed to decide that hitting high and hopeful balls was the way to get into it.

 

I'm 100% sure Sam wanted them to play a better quality of football in possesion, and I'm 100% sure we would have had we not gone 3 nil down.

 

How much was yesterday down to the way we've played previously?  We've been winning at home then playing a totally different game away, a game which has seen us lose to teams we should be beating.  I would think yesterday had something to do with that, we're also changing our team too often, we've got no stability from one game to the next, either in personnel or tactics.  Players need to be comfortable in what they are doing, they need to be confident in each others play, I don’t think they are at the minute and that is down to the manager.

[Skirge]

Right then, now I have calmed down, fkn good job we pissed off to Darlo after the match last night, I was to livid to come on here and post (crackng fireworks display at Darlo by the way).

 

11 mins of utter stupidity and sleeping football, then 80 mins of a non performance yet again and Owen going through the motions, Martins on the bench was mental, Smith is a liability, Milner and Zoggy on the wrong wings, Barton the invisible man, Taylor a cracking young CB at right back.

SAM ITS YOUR FAULT!! I have seen more creative kids football, its embarrassing for the players, the fans and the club, everyone says give a manager time.......BOLLOCKS!!

[Guest]

When a lot of people were saying we should be happy with a top 10 finish or whatever this season, I said that if that were to be the case, we'd have some pretty sh*t performances along the way. We're still in contention for the top 8 that the majority on here were settling with back in July/August so can't see why these people are whinging.

[ChezGiven]

I'm not sure you should whinge when beaten by a better team anyway.

[Kev]

I'm not sure you should whinge when beaten by a better team anyway.

 

its the fact of how we were MURDERED not beat!

i wouldnt be so pissed off if it was 1-0 or 2-1

but 4-1 at home! it was shocking, we were worse than Derby v pompey

[Jamie]

I'm not sure you should whinge when beaten by a better team anyway.

 

its the fact of how we were MURDERED not beat!

i wouldnt be so pissed off if it was 1-0 or 2-1

but 4-1 at home! it was shocking, we were worse than Derby v pompey

Wasn't that 2-2 ? 

 

We were beaten by a team that were much better than us on the day, and are better than us anyway

[Thespence]

Saw enough of Barton already to see he is not this creative force some said he would be. He is like Emre he operates mostly in his own half & comes deep most of the time.

[Guest alex]

Saw enough of Barton already to see he is not this creative force some said he would be. He is like Emre he operates mostly in his own half & comes deep most of the time.

Christ. Does it get any more knee-jerk than that? Have a quiet word with yourself man.

[Kev]

I'm not sure you should whinge when beaten by a better team anyway.

 

its the fact of how we were MURDERED not beat!

i wouldnt be so pissed off if it was 1-0 or 2-1

but 4-1 at home! it was shocking, we were worse than Derby v pompey

Wasn't that 2-2 ? 

 

We were beaten by a team that were much better than us on the day, and are better than us anyway

 

aye, thats what im saying, derby were better than us against pompey 

[Thespence]

Saw enough of Barton already to see he is not this creative force some said he would be. He is like Emre he operates mostly in his own half & comes deep most of the time.

Christ. Does it get any more knee-jerk than that? Have a quiet word with yourself man.

 

It doesnt make him bad player just not the player some thought he was going to be.

[Baggio]

Saw enough of Barton already to see he is not this creative force some said he would be. He is like Emre he operates mostly in his own half & comes deep most of the time.

Christ. Does it get any more knee-jerk than that? Have a quiet word with yourself man.

 

It doesnt make him bad player just not the player some thought he was going to be.

 

Who thought that?

 

Barton and Emre have never been creative attacking midfielders and it amazes me the amount of times people suggest they are.

[wyn davies]

well I thought we were sh*te. Charlie N in wrong place,no idea what Taylor was upto,Cacapa wots gone wrong and Smith & Barton  sorry but they are not for us. Alladyce needs to get a grip as Ashley and his mob want success and if they run the B&W's as a business I will assume it won't be long before Sam gets a redundancy packet especially when he wasn't their purchase so to speak.

Doesn't bode well for next week, f*ck me get beat off them and the blood will really boil.

[Cronky]

Just seen the game, and I do think a lot of people are over-reacting. We weren't that much better or worse than for the other games I've seen this season.

 

I feel a bit sorry for Cacapa. He's not the quickest or strongest, but usually gets by through his reading of the game. For the second and third goals he got exposed one-on-one, moving backwards and he wasn't able to handle it. In the first instance, Faye gave the ball away with most of the team upfield, and in the second instance, Taylor misjudged a header, the ball looped backwards and Cacapa was caught on the turn. He didn't too well, but his team mates landed him in the shit somewhat.

 

Zoggy and Milner did all right on the 'opposite' wings. I think people are just looking for something to complain about there.

 

We lacked penetration in the final third. The Pompey defenders handled our strikers quite comfortably. Owen had one of those games where he isn't offering much.

 

Pompey's passing through the midfield was better than ours and that was the difference.

[TRon]

Just seen the game, and I do think a lot of people are over-reacting. We weren't that much better or worse than for the other games I've seen this season.

 

I feel a bit sorry for Cacapa. He's not the quickest or strongest, but usually gets by through his reading of the game. For the second and third goals he got exposed one-on-one, moving backwards and he wasn't able to handle it. In the first instance, Faye gave the ball away with most of the team upfield, and in the second instance, Taylor misjudged a header, the ball looped backwards and Cacapa was caught on the turn. He didn't too well, but his team mates landed him in the shit somewhat.

 

Zoggy and Milner did all right on the 'opposite' wings. I think people are just looking for something to complain about there.

 

We lacked penetration in the final third. The Pompey defenders handled our strikers quite comfortably. Owen had one of those games where he isn't offering much.

 

Pompey's passing through the midfield was better than ours and that was the difference. [/]b

 

A lot of what you said was quite true, but the last bit about Pompey's passing being better brings up a whole load of other issues. Pompey's passing was probably better through better movement, better running, more pace.....you get my drift.

[fredbob]

Yeh, I'd like to see more movement in our midfield, but i dont think its gonna happen, SA likes playng percentage football, h's beengoing on about keepin shape and discipline and that to me means that he doesnt want people drifitng wants to make sure people are always in a posiition to defend which i think is such a negative attitude. If i had the choice id like to see Zog and Milner playing more advanced roles with Butt and Barton breaking down any counter attacks, in fact id crave to see one of our midfielders move into an attacking posiiton. Full stop.

 

To be honet, if it meant that we had to drop owen so that we can use a 433, where the 2 wide players are getting beyond the full backs id like to see it happen.

[TRon]

Yes.

[sparta]

Just seen the game, and I do think a lot of people are over-reacting. We weren't that much better or worse than for the other games I've seen this season.

 

I feel a bit sorry for Cacapa. He's not the quickest or strongest, but usually gets by through his reading of the game. For the second and third goals he got exposed one-on-one, moving backwards and he wasn't able to handle it. In the first instance, Faye gave the ball away with most of the team upfield, and in the second instance, Taylor misjudged a header, the ball looped backwards and Cacapa was caught on the turn. He didn't too well, but his team mates landed him in the s*** somewhat.

 

Zoggy and Milner did all right on the 'opposite' wings. I think people are just looking for something to complain about there.

 

We lacked penetration in the final third. The Pompey defenders handled our strikers quite comfortably. Owen had one of those games where he isn't offering much.

 

Pompey's passing through the midfield was better than ours and that was the difference.

 

im in particular not happy about the way we play on our strikers , i belive with just a bit of alterning how our wingers get played into the game, they could create a lot of chances for our strikers. owen have never created much on his own, he have always relied on good balls by his team mates...- its incredible how people think owen should get the ball at centre half and create everything on his own, just plain stupid thinking like that. his movement is still great, but the point at making owen run after long balls (thats acually very bad long balls) and get him to challenge players like campell in the air is very frustrating at least for me to watch... such a waste of talent!

 

im agree that zoggy and milner can play on both wings, i think they did farely good with what they had. but when a winger or right midfielder recieves the ball at centre half with almost 8 players in between them and the strikers, its very hard to do something... our entire build up phase should be altered!

 

and the thing about cacapa, his a good professional, he will kick his arse for that one and probably slam his mates a bit for the job as well! but the game should be forgotten in his eyes!

[Tsunami]

Just seen the game, and I do think a lot of people are over-reacting. We weren't that much better or worse than for the other games I've seen this season.

 

I feel a bit sorry for Cacapa. He's not the quickest or strongest, but usually gets by through his reading of the game. For the second and third goals he got exposed one-on-one, moving backwards and he wasn't able to handle it. In the first instance, Faye gave the ball away with most of the team upfield, and in the second instance, Taylor misjudged a header, the ball looped backwards and Cacapa was caught on the turn. He didn't too well, but his team mates landed him in the s*** somewhat.

 

Zoggy and Milner did all right on the 'opposite' wings. I think people are just looking for something to complain about there.

 

We lacked penetration in the final third. The Pompey defenders handled our strikers quite comfortably. Owen had one of those games where he isn't offering much.

 

Pompey's passing through the midfield was better than ours and that was the difference. [/]b

 

A lot of what you said was quite true, but the last bit about Pompey's passing being better brings up a whole load of other issues. Pompey's passing was probably better through better movement, better running, more pace.....you get my drift.

 

All very true. We'll never really know how wrong BS got his tactics as the games was over after 11 minutes. If I were Cacapa I'd have given Faye & Taylor a royal kicking afterwards as they exposed his weaknesses for the 2nd & 3rd goals as both times (not through his fault) he got isolated as the last man too high up the pitch.

[NG32]

Pompey's passing through the midfield was better than ours and that was the difference.

 

Like a hot knife through butter at times.

[johnnypd]

Pompey's passing through the midfield was better than ours and that was the difference.

 

Like a hot knife through butter at times.

 

indeed, look at the run through the middle by diop and muntari that forced the corner for pompey's first, very direct and very fast. those two don't have a lot over barton and butt in terms of technical ability but in pace and power it is men against boys. the pompey team for the first 15 minutes was playing at a hectic pace and we just never got the grips with it. they pressurised and closed us down brutally, they moved quickly on and off the ball, always giving options, providing decoy runs to take markers away, players dovetailing with one and two touch football, always getting the loose balls and knock downs first, always blocking off channels, thundering into challenges and so on. we didn't have the strength or speed to take it off them, and we didn't have the technical ability to knock it around them, or strength to hold them off. same story for the 2nd goal, diop gets space to hit the long ball because the pompey players are busy pulling the our midfielders apart and blocking them off, benjani starts his run 5 yards behind cacapa, overtakes him with ease so that cacapa must resort to a desperate, off-balance lean to get inbetween ball and benjani, who inevitably shrugs him aside. 3rd goal too, we're pressured into making a mistake with the header, Utaka is the most alert and fastest breaker from midfield, closes down cacapa for a 50:50, then steamrollers him. people have chalked the goals up to individual mistakes but when you look at them in the overall context of the play they were errors waiting to happen because of specific advantages pompey had over us as a side.

 

the same can be said for the long-ball to owen and smith, which was often forced because our defenders were closed down too quickly and had to get rid, or because there were no options in midfield with the pompey players dominating the territory. Geremi is the closest we have to the kind of things Pompey were offering, not that he is particularly fast or powerful, but he moves around the pitch intelligently, moves the ball on quickly and is always available to receive a pass. emre also offers this to an extent and has the technical nous on the ball to find space in a congested midfield. sadly both of them were on the bench while we had the hopelessly out of their depth butt and barton, who provide neither technical assurance or physical dominance.

[ChezGiven]

True