The College Dropout Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Long way off from the days of Shearer, Given & Speed in terms of leadership. These were players that were proud to play for Newcastle and wanted us to be challengers. Anyone with any type of desire to be better is moved on now. Had there been a decent offer in the summer I reckon the only players that looked like they could do anything on the wekend (Janmaat & Sissoko) would've been sold. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallace Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 We had leaders at the club when Nolan, Barton etc were here and the player's committee at that time. The club didn't like it and moved them on. They don't like being challenged or questioned and that comes from the man at the top. Everyone said how they needed leaders in that team but they chose not address it. And yet again, despite claims from the club that they have learnt the lessons from last season, it is apparent that they have not. Their intransigence to diverting away from their "blueprint" will cost them eventually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 He's never gonna give it up. I appreciated this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 We had leaders at the club when Nolan, Barton etc were here and the player's committee at that time. The club didn't like it and moved them on. They don't like being challenged or questioned and that comes from the man at the top. Everyone said how they needed leaders in that team but they chose not address it. And yet again, despite claims from the club that they have learnt the lessons from last season, it is apparent that they have not. Their intransigence to diverting away from their "blueprint" will cost them eventually. Aye. Apparently Tiote doesn't want to play. Cisse the same. Colo often plays like it. Rotten club. That was once (close to) the spine of a good team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number9shirt Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 This job's far too big for him. He already had the England job & royally screwed it up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 It's all down to Astley having no interest and no idea about football other than making bets. Ashley is definitely to blame for the players not giving a shit and using this club as a stepping stone, and I would have had no problem with that line of thinking before the summer. However since then there's been a new management and training structure put in place and £50m invested in the squad. If the manager hasn't been able to use that to motivate the players then there's something missing from his end. I know it's only 6 games, but it doesn't look good at this point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Think it's more to do with the players not being that good rather than then not giving a shit tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 It's all down to Astley having no interest and no idea about football other than making bets. Ashley is definitely to blame for the players not giving a shit and using this club as a stepping stone, and I would have had no problem with that line of thinking before the summer. However since then there's been a new management and training structure put in place and £50m invested in the squad. If the manager hasn't been able to use that to motivate the players then there's something missing from his end. I know it's only 6 games, but it doesn't look good at this point. this is it like, ashley has pretty clearly been hands off at the club for a very long time now so people harping on like he's involved in club decisions on a daily basis is wide of the mark his mistake was obviously appointing charnley who evidently knows absolutely fucking nothing about the game, if he knows anything about anything at all so either charnley or carr have now went all in for a 'failed' manager who has come into a club that's been on it's knees for years and at this stage appears to have no fucking clue how to turn it around on any level Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 The most important man at a football club is the owner. If Ashley wanted us to fight for Europe and win trophies - Charnley & SMC wouldn't be at the club. If Ashley had genuine respect for the club and fans so would more players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timeEd32 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 He obviously hasn't been on this board... @MsiDouglas: Obvious disquiet but the scrutiny is harsher from outside at the moment. #nufc fans still (relatively) patient: http://t.co/dE57XCudNM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 The most important man at a football club is the owner. If Ashley wanted us to fight for Europe and win trophies - Charnley & SMC wouldn't be at the club. If Ashley had genuine respect for the club and fans so would more players. It's funny but traditionally people have always said the most important person at a football club is the manager, and rightly so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I'm in two minds here: 1) I want to like him, I think he seems like a real good honest football man who is likely a very good coach. Seems to know the game very well. I think he's trying to implement a good plan and system but he hasn't got the idea on how to FIT the players into that. He's bottled some big decisions and I'm a bit lost on his team selections still. Although we were losing 2-0, and people may say he was "hiding" in his technical area, if you caught it on TV, he was literally with Cathro scribbling away at his giant clipboard and assuming at face value here, was trying to conjure up something. He's trying, he may be failing, and he may ultimately fail, but he's trying. 2) We still look crap, we still haven't scored, we take a step or 2 forward we take 2-3 steps back in terms of results or performances. I've not a clue how he's going to solve this team selection thing - my gung-ho formations are likely not ever going to work in reality. I still think he needs 5 players minimum; anyone will. We are horribly unbalanced side and we lack a strong spine in our team. I believe he will ultimately not meet our expectations (which are low, I think), and I was never for him - I was only for him when it was official and I had to back him My overall bold call here is that the job's maybe far too big for him and he'll walk or get sacked sooner than people realize. I hope I'm wrong and he turns it around b/c like always for me, just want to enjoy my club again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I think he'll be banking it all on Mitrovic at the moment. They signed the lad for a reason and at OT away you could see signs of why they did. If he's any sense now he'll build the entire plan around Mitro and hope to fuck he can stay on the pitch because he literally has no other options, everyone looks totally lost without a focal point to the attack to play off. I mean there's more to it than that but on a basic level if we don't start hurting teams then anything else he does won't matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 The most important man at a football club is the owner. If Ashley wanted us to fight for Europe and win trophies - Charnley & SMC wouldn't be at the club. If Ashley had genuine respect for the club and fans so would more players. It's funny but traditionally people have always said the most important person at a football club is the manager, and rightly so. A manager (traditionally) would be the most important person in executing the vision. A club like Man Utd always had the vision, support and resources but needed the manager to make it happen. But now with so much money being in the game, owners being in the sport for various reasons, they're the most important people. Look at Swansea, loads of different managers but the vision from the top has remained the same. Even with us, without SJH there's no KK or revival. Arsenal's board are happy with Arsene's penny pinching no doubt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 The most important man at a football club is the owner. If Ashley wanted us to fight for Europe and win trophies - Charnley & SMC wouldn't be at the club. If Ashley had genuine respect for the club and fans so would more players. It's funny but traditionally people have always said the most important person at a football club is the manager, and rightly so. A manager (traditionally) would be the most important person in executing the vision. A club like Man Utd always had the vision, support and resources but needed the manager to make it happen. But now with so much money being in the game, owners being in the sport for various reasons, they're the most important people. Look at Swansea, loads of different managers but the vision from the top has remained the same. Even with us, without SJH there's no KK or revival. Arsenal's board are happy with Arsene's penny pinching no doubt. Man Utd had the same vision Liverpool have now for about 25 years until they hired Fergie and his ability as a football manager turned them into the behemoth they are today. Before that the vision was crying about their glorious past propped up with some cup wins. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 He needs to get Siem De Jong out there from the start for 1 thing. He needs to have Perez and Thauvin out wide for another. He needs his central midfield to probably be Gini/Sissoko. And he probably needs the full backs to provide minimal up the pitch attacking support. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 He also needs a much better squad of players and then to fuck off himself for someone better, then things might start looking up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 The most important man at a football club is the owner. If Ashley wanted us to fight for Europe and win trophies - Charnley & SMC wouldn't be at the club. If Ashley had genuine respect for the club and fans so would more players. It's funny but traditionally people have always said the most important person at a football club is the manager, and rightly so. A manager (traditionally) would be the most important person in executing the vision. A club like Man Utd always had the vision, support and resources but needed the manager to make it happen. But now with so much money being in the game, owners being in the sport for various reasons, they're the most important people. Look at Swansea, loads of different managers but the vision from the top has remained the same. Even with us, without SJH there's no KK or revival. Arsenal's board are happy with Arsene's penny pinching no doubt. Man Utd had the same vision Liverpool have now for about 25 years until they hired Fergie and his ability as a football manager turned them into the behemoth they are today. Before that the vision was crying about their glorious past propped up with some cup wins. My point is - the ceiling of any team is that of the owners ambition and resources. You want to win the PL, you spend like it and you'll most likely win it or challenge. If Man Utd didn't have the vision, Ferguson wouldn't have joined. He knew they would give him the resources needed to get to the vision. Arsene Wenger's first team to win the PL was also the most expensive at that time. Now, his team is a distant 4th in wage bill and that's where they finish most seasons. Their board is happy with that so they haven't gotten any better. In the last decade plus (atleast), the Liverpool owners haven't had the resources to consistently compete at that level though. You look at their spend & wage bill most years they reach parity. The proof is in the pudding. KK under this lot = forced out for having ambition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ujpest doza Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 The most important man at a football club is the owner. If Ashley wanted us to fight for Europe and win trophies - Charnley & SMC wouldn't be at the club. If Ashley had genuine respect for the club and fans so would more players. It's funny but traditionally people have always said the most important person at a football club is the manager, and rightly so. A manager (traditionally) would be the most important person in executing the vision. A club like Man Utd always had the vision, support and resources but needed the manager to make it happen. But now with so much money being in the game, owners being in the sport for various reasons, they're the most important people. Look at Swansea, loads of different managers but the vision from the top has remained the same. Even with us, without SJH there's no KK or revival. Arsenal's board are happy with Arsene's penny pinching no doubt. Man Utd had the same vision Liverpool have now for about 25 years until they hired Fergie and his ability as a football manager turned them into the behemoth they are today. Before that the vision was crying about their glorious past propped up with some cup wins. You could also argue that Fergie struck lucky with the class of 92 as they'd been pretty poor for the first 3 years of his reign and had fans calling for him to be sacked. Just saying like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I see what you're saying TCD but ultimately McLaren, just like Pardew before him, is responsible for getting the simple basics of the game right and he's failing at that. That is no one else's fault but his own. We don't have a vision and neither do plenty of other clubs really, it should be in him as a football manager to have the professionalism and drive to motivate himself and the team above whatever bullshit aims Charnley or Ashley might have. It's why Pardew was such a fraud in large part as he used it as a constant excuse for his shitness. Thankfully McLaren hasn't done this yet, nor can he I suppose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Gets me angry to think we've gone from Keegan, Dalglish, Gullit & Robson to Allardyce, Hughton, Pardew & McClaren. The names say a lot about the perspective. I know Ashley didn't appoint Sam but he's of that ilk. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Gets me angry to think we've gone from Keegan, Dalglish, Gullit & Robson to Allardyce, Hughton, Pardew & McClaren. The names say a lot about the perspective. I know Ashley didn't appoint Sam but he's of that ilk. It's laughable like aye. Christ. The only thing we compete at is trying not to compete at the level we should be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I see what you're saying TCD but ultimately McLaren, just like Pardew before him, is responsible for getting the simple basics of the game right and he's failing at that. That is no one else's fault but his own. We don't have a vision and neither do plenty of other clubs really, it should be in him as a football manager to have the professionalism and drive to motivate himself and the team above whatever bullshit aims Charnley or Ashley might have. It's why Pardew was such a fraud in large part as he used it as a constant excuse for his shitness. Thankfully McLaren hasn't done this yet, nor can he I suppose. I said SMC was similar to Pardew from the start. I expected him to be bang average. I expect some improvement but still well below what I deem as a decent season. I have never though he's a Newcastle United manager. But he, like Pardew, is not the main cause of our problems. He's a symptom. If we had proper leadership he wouldn't be here anyway. Every club has a vision. For some, it's to just get by. I think the owner has tried a bit to change the vision but it's largely the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Think McClaren would walk if it got as bad as it did under Pardew. I believe Pardew wanted to be paid off as a bit of a middle finger to a number of people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempuki Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 From .com: The Ashley Era - NUFC after six PL games: 2007/08: 11 points, 5th (scored 9, conceded 5) 2008/09: 4 points, 19th (scored 5, conceded 11) 2010/11: 7 points, 10th (scored 9, conceded 8) 2011/12: 12 points, 4th (scored 7, conceded 3) 2012/13: 9 points, 9th (scored 8, conceded 8) 2013/14: 7 points, 16th (scored 7, conceded 11) 2014/15: 3 points, 19th (scored 5, conceded 12) 2015/16: 2 points, 19th (scored 3, conceded 9) This is United's worst start to a Premier League season since the 1999/00 campaign, which unfolded thus: Aston Villa (h) lost 0-1 Tottenham (a) lost 1-3 Southampton (a) lost 2-4 Wimbledon (h) drew 3-3 mackems (h) lost 1-2 Manchester United (a) lost 1-5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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