them 1-1 Us - 10/11/07 - Official match thread (Post-match reaction from p15)

[Wullie]

Christ, I feel like I've run a marathon. Happy with a point in the end, thought Martins was going to win it at the end, it would have been one of the greatest derby victories in my lifetime.

 

Still a hell of a lot to do though, needs to find his best team and fucking stick with it. Why go messing with the full backs when they've done nothing wrong? N'Zogbia was again our most potent force even at LB, they were terrified of him. No surprise to see Viduka getting a slagging from some people. I thought he was class as usual. His pass over the top for Owen when he was about 3/4 of an inch offside was perfection.

[Baggio]

Shit tatics from Allardyce? Who would of thought.

 

You can't say that!

 

Give him time etc etc. :giggle:

 

glad you think its funny.

 

Anyway, I bet Andy Gray's praise of Smith is pissing you right off   

 

I thought you didn't judge Smith when he played in midfield?

 

Oh, I don't. I already know he's an asset to the club. Still think your previous remark is funny ?

 

 

 

Why shouldn't I find it funny?

 

More shocking tactics and players played out of position yet people are still trying to justify what he's doing.

 

As for Smith, decent first half but done nothing in the second half except go on a run and tripping over his own feet. mackems.gif

 

 

[ShearMagic]

Post match reaction:

 

Sunderland manager Roy Keane insists his Newcastle counterpart Sam Allardyce will be the more satisfied with their 1-1 draw at the Stadium of Light.

 

The Black Cats took the lead when Danny Higginbotham ghosted into the visitors' box to head home and Michael Chopra hit the crossbar late on after James Milner's equaliser from a wide position.

 

Keane said: "Sam is probably slightly happier than me today. We didn't have that bit of luck today and we can talk all day about being unlucky but we keep getting these lessons in the Premier League and you have to take your chances.

 

"We had chances to win the game and these things come back to haunt you. But if we keep performing like that, we'll be okay.

 

"We have a lot of players who have not played in the Premier League too much and these are all lessons you have to learn."

 

Man-of-the-match Kenwyne Jones believes the hosts deserved more than a point.

 

He added: "We definitely deserved to win it and would have if not for that one piece of lacking concentration.

 

"We were the better side today and unfortunately we have to come away with a point."

 

Allardyce claimed United's comeback merited at least a share of the spoils.

 

 

 

"We deserved it for our response after going a goal down.

 

 

 

"The fear of going a goal down at that stage is the reason we picked our game up and took the game to Sunderland.

 

 

 

"Up to then, Sunderland outmuscled us and we couldn't get our passing game going, but that happens in a derby match.

 

 

 

"In the end it was a fair result. We've gone behind, it's away, it's a derby and we haven't lost."

[Tsunami]

We got out of jail today. The annoying thing is that had we played a more positive game I think we would have won. We played in the hope to keep it goaless & then nick one. What we did was to allow them to get a foot hold in the game & become the better side.

 

btw, Barton & Smith were awful & Owen doesn't fit into BS's current tactics.

[Guest Dev]

I can imagine those who are calling for Big Sam's head are far better managers than him and have guided utter s**** into Europe. Nope, thought not. While we continue to give managers 5 months to turn around the club that could have been the next Leeds we will never get anywhere. FFs grab yourself some patience and learn to relax.

 

We've been patiently waiting to win something for almost 40 years, we've been patiently waiting to win a domestic trophy for more than 50 years and it's getting closer to the 100 year mark since we won a league title, I would think an 80 year wait is quite a while to be able to claim we've been more than patient.

 

So do you expect instant success from Sam then?

 

Owen.

 

Emre.

 

Viduka.

 

Zoggy.

 

The mackems have never in their entire history had a player within two bloody leagues of the class of these players. Man for man every single player (except GK) they have inferior players to NUFC.

 

I really cannot undertstand why people think its OK for us to go out and get dominated by the mackems. Right now we have a squad that shits all over them. It isn't just because its the derby, exact same argument Derby and Reading. Right now. And yet we get sent home tail between legs. WHY?

 

Because Allardyce has more skill and talent in those four players than he's ever had in his entire career and he has no idea how to use it. Sam clseems to have no desire/ability to use the talent of this squad away from home, and it is probably top 8 at best. That being the case, how is he the man to take us forward? What is the point of bringing in better talent in winter/next summer if he's just going to take it out to pride park and tell them to 'hold out lads, there's a point in this if we graft it'.

 

Lets face it, it isn't about instant success. It's about at this instant, Sam has a much much more talented squad than the bottom 8 teams at least, and he is showing little to no sign of being able to use it intelligently. He is making the same mistakes over and over again. I say give him the season, sure. But if by round 35 he is still going to bottom of the ladder and trying to graft out a point then can't we safely say he's out of his depth? Do we really need another 3 years of trying to turn michael owen into alan smith?

[NSG]

BTW I thought Viduka was superb today.

 

How the hell did Jones get MOTM? He didn't have a sniff all match.

[Guest JamesD]

I can imagine those who are calling for Big Sam's head are far better managers than him and have guided utter s**** into Europe. Nope, thought not. While we continue to give managers 5 months to turn around the club that could have been the next Leeds we will never get anywhere. FFs grab yourself some patience and learn to relax.

 

We've been patiently waiting to win something for almost 40 years, we've been patiently waiting to win a domestic trophy for more than 50 years and it's getting closer to the 100 year mark since we won a league title, I would think an 80 year wait is quite a while to be able to claim we've been more than patient.

 

So do you expect instant success from Sam then?

 

Owen.

 

Emre.

 

Viduka.

 

Zoggy.

 

The mackems have never in their entire history had a player within two bloody leagues of the class of these players. Man for man every single player (except GK) they have inferior players to NUFC.

 

I really cannot undertstand why people think its OK for us to go out and get dominated by the mackems. Right now we have a squad that shits all over them. It isn't just because its the derby, exact same argument Derby and Reading. Right now. And yet we get sent home tail between legs. WHY?

 

Because Allardyce has more skill and talent in those four players than he's ever had in his entire career and he has no idea how to use it. Sam clseems to have no desire/ability to use the talent of this squad away from home, and it is probably top 8 at best. That being the case, how is he the man to take us forward? What is the point of bringing in better talent in winter/next summer if he's just going to take it out to pride park and tell them to 'hold out lads, there's a point in this if we graft it'.

 

Lets face it, it isn't about instant success. It's about at this instant, Sam has a much much more talented squad than the bottom 8 teams at least, and he is showing little to no sign of being able to use it intelligently. He is making the same mistakes over and over again. I say give him the season, sure. But if by round 35 he is still going to bottom of the ladder and trying to graft out a point then can't we safely say he's out of his depth? Do we really need another 3 years of trying to turn michael owen into alan smith?

good post.

[Mick]

 

i'm giving sam 2 years, unless we get even worse. if we don't seem to be progressing to a side fit to call itself a PL one in time to reach that date in august 2009 then i'll start to get a bit anxious.

 

I'm giving him the rest of this season, if he carries on the way he has so far.  We don't need to get rid of him now but he needs to show that he knows what he's doing, he hasn't done that up until now as he's changing things far too often.

[SUPERTOON]

Emre was awful pulled out of every tackle and went missing

 

Barton was poor also

[Wullie]

Barton was awful first half, thought he did well second though.

[Guest optimistic nit]

You've got to look at what Sam has done so far in what? 6 months?

 

Sold 2 creative players (Dyer and Solano) and brought in 2 battlers in Smith and Barton (one of whom I'll count as replacement for Parker so fair enough) So that leaves us not only a player short but with basically no creativity in the midfield apart from Zog who he seems to think is better at left back, even when he has Enrique who was a decent signing tbf sitting on the bench.

 

Insists on playing players out of positions, baffling tbh when a hell of a lot of people on here can see what he should be doing and where he's going wrong. I've given him up till now to learn from these mistakes and put players back to where they are effective, yet still, after a poor run of results he still comes up with these strange decisions like playing Barton on the right, Milner on the left blah blah. Just fucking stupidity.

 

Also this long ball shit, we had a period of play today after we scored where we got in and around Sunderland and played the ball on the deck and looked resonably threatening in an attacking sense. But then we still seem to fall back into the long ball up to the knackered Viduka and Owen, and we didn't look like scoring from one of these, most of the time the ball came straight back.

 

I just don't like where we're going at the moment with him and am praying he doesn't turn us into a Bolton like team, we've got players that can produce better than that. If he's to succeed he needs to change some things around and quick, you can be as good as you like with all this behind the scenes shit but if you don't use your players effectively you're buggered. I've said before that he should be given time and I still hope he gets out of this stupid fucking mentality he has, but if he doesn't I don't think he'll last that long no matter what Mort says.

 

 

you're putting spin on that. i don't think there's a member here who would have said no to 6mill for dyer. also i he didn't want to sell solano, solano requested to leave, and we abliged, as we should have to such a great servant of the club. barton is also creative in my book, or at least that was my impression of him at citeh, didn't he lead their assists last season?

 

personally i'm going to accept allardyce's experimentation up to a point. i rate him as a manager, and experimentation is one thing that i think he is renound for. the only thing that concerns me atm is that he appears to be a slow learner, regarding things that don't work.

[ElDiablo]

I can imagine those who are calling for Big Sam's head are far better managers than him and have guided utter s**** into Europe. Nope, thought not. While we continue to give managers 5 months to turn around the club that could have been the next Leeds we will never get anywhere. FFs grab yourself some patience and learn to relax.

 

We've been patiently waiting to win something for almost 40 years, we've been patiently waiting to win a domestic trophy for more than 50 years and it's getting closer to the 100 year mark since we won a league title, I would think an 80 year wait is quite a while to be able to claim we've been more than patient.

 

So do you expect instant success from Sam then?

 

Owen.

 

Emre.

 

Viduka.

 

Zoggy.

 

The mackems have never in their entire history had a player within two bloody leagues of the class of these players. Man for man every single player (except GK) they have inferior players to NUFC.

 

I really cannot undertstand why people think its OK for us to go out and get dominated by the mackems. Right now we have a squad that shits all over them. It isn't just because its the derby, exact same argument Derby and Reading. Right now. And yet we get sent home tail between legs. WHY?

 

Because Allardyce has more skill and talent in those four players than he's ever had in his entire career and he has no idea how to use it. Sam clseems to have no desire/ability to use the talent of this squad away from home, and it is probably top 8 at best. That being the case, how is he the man to take us forward? What is the point of bringing in better talent in winter/next summer if he's just going to take it out to pride park and tell them to 'hold out lads, there's a point in this if we graft it'.

 

Lets face it, it isn't about instant success. It's about at this instant, Sam has a much much more talented squad than the bottom 8 teams at least, and he is showing little to no sign of being able to use it intelligently. He is making the same mistakes over and over again. I say give him the season, sure. But if by round 35 he is still going to bottom of the ladder and trying to graft out a point then can't we safely say he's out of his depth? Do we really need another 3 years of trying to turn michael owen into alan smith?

good post.

 

[Incognito]

Barton was awful first half, thought he did well second though.

 

Yes far better second half,after he tried to geld Etuhu before half time.Maybe Etuhu looks like Dabo!!

[Baggio]

You've got to look at what Sam has done so far in what? 6 months?

 

Sold 2 creative players (Dyer and Solano) and brought in 2 battlers in Smith and Barton (one of whom I'll count as replacement for Parker so fair enough) So that leaves us not only a player short but with basically no creativity in the midfield apart from Zog who he seems to think is better at left back, even when he has Enrique who was a decent signing tbf sitting on the bench.

 

Insists on playing players out of positions, baffling tbh when a hell of a lot of people on here can see what he should be doing and where he's going wrong. I've given him up till now to learn from these mistakes and put players back to where they are effective, yet still, after a poor run of results he still comes up with these strange decisions like playing Barton on the right, Milner on the left blah blah. Just fucking stupidity.

 

Also this long ball shit, we had a period of play today after we scored where we got in and around Sunderland and played the ball on the deck and looked resonably threatening in an attacking sense. But then we still seem to fall back into the long ball up to the knackered Viduka and Owen, and we didn't look like scoring from one of these, most of the time the ball came straight back.

 

I just don't like where we're going at the moment with him and am praying he doesn't turn us into a Bolton like team, we've got players that can produce better than that. If he's to succeed he needs to change some things around and quick, you can be as good as you like with all this behind the scenes shit but if you don't use your players effectively you're buggered. I've said before that he should be given time and I still hope he gets out of this stupid fucking mentality he has, but if he doesn't I don't think he'll last that long no matter what Mort says.

 

 

you're putting spin on that. i don't think there's a member here who would have said no to 6mill for dyer. also i he didn't want to sell solano, solano requested to leave, and we abliged, as we should have to such a great servant of the club. barton is also creative in my book, or at least that was my impression of him at citeh, didn't he lead their assists last season?

 

personally i'm going to accept allardyce's experimentation up to a point. i rate him as a manager, and experimentation is one thing that i think he is renound for. the only thing that concerns me atm is that he appears to be a slow learner, regarding things that don't work.

 

Selling Dyer and replacing him with Smith is awful which ever way you look at it, ok Dyer wanted to leave but he should have been replaced with a player with a similar amount of pace to get in behind defences.

 

 

[SUPERTOON]

Owen will be constantly play badly if we play like this but it isnt his fault as we have no one who passes the ball were he wants it

 

 

[Guest optimistic nit]

 

i'm giving sam 2 years, unless we get even worse. if we don't seem to be progressing to a side fit to call itself a PL one in time to reach that date in august 2009 then i'll start to get a bit anxious.

 

I'm giving him the rest of this season, if he carries on the way he has so far.  We don't need to get rid of him now but he needs to show that he knows what he's doing, he hasn't done that up until now as he's changing things far too often.

 

aye well by 2 seasons i mean 2 august transfer windows. i think it'd be unfair to sack him after just 1, but if after 2 we still don't play cometant footie i'll be dissapointed.

[ShearMagic]

BTW I thought Viduka was superb today.

 

How the hell did Jones get MOTM? He didn't have a sniff all match.

 

Agree about the Viduka part.

 

You're kidding about Jones getting MOTM? Thats ridiculous.

[ElDiablo]

you're putting spin on that. i don't think there's a member here who would have said no to 6mill for dyer. also i he didn't want to sell solano, solano requested to leave, and we abliged, as we should have to such a great servant of the club. barton is also creative in my book, or at least that was my impression of him at citeh, didn't he lead their assists last season?

 

personally i'm going to accept allardyce's experimentation up to a point. i rate him as a manager, and experimentation is one thing that i think he is renound for. the only thing that concerns me atm is that he appears to be a slow learner, regarding things that don't work.

 

Yeah Dyer was a good deal, i'm on about the fact instead of getting someone in similar, he bought Smith. Who in fairness is a 'decent' player but not the sort who will produce some of the sorts of things a Dyer like player would put in. Blood and guts and that's about it, that doesn't get you 3 points.

[johnnypd]

very lucky, scored with a fluke and presented very little threat, sunderland had chances off the bar, cleared from the line and so on.

 

owen-viduka partnership was the heart of our problems, along with the no-pace midfield it meant sunderland could defend as high up as they wanted knowing we had no-one who could run in behind and outpace them. viduka and owen were receiving the ball, with their back to goal, 35 yards from our touchline ffs. the one time owen contributed was with a crossfield ball to taylor, who when he received it by the corner flag, had to hit it off the mackem's legs for a corner cos the slow as fuck viduka and owen are down by the half way line. awful partnership on today's evidence, owen did fuck all, viduka as always has moments of sheer class when on the ball but overall he did very little by way of threat mostly because he had no one running off him either up front or down the wings. was obvious after about 20 minutes that it was puttig pressure on us but martins didnt come on till the last 6 or 7 mins, baffling.

 

the midfield was pretty poor too, as usual zoggy was our biggest threat tho he faded in the 2nd half and also got caught out at the back quite a lot, cos he's not a LB! barton was awful in the first half but improved and made a few good diagonal passes in the 2nd half. smith contributed fuck all as usual to the attack, btu he did make a few good blocks (as well as some dumb tackles). emre drifted in and out of the game. milner saved our arses even tho he didnt make much impression otherwise. sam is very, very lucky that cross curled in, otherwise he'd be rightly getting an absolute bollocking from our fans for shit, defensive tactics with players out of position across the pitch.

 

in defence faye was our best player by a mile, tho i think he made a mistake for their goal. won most in the air against jones which is impressive. taylor had some good moments going forward suprisingly. rozehnal was dodgy on the deck, unusually panicked on a few occasions imo.

[Guest Elan]

BTW I thought Viduka was superb today.

 

How the hell did Jones get MOTM? He didn't have a sniff all match.

 

Spot on, spent most of the game in Faye's pocket. Another over-hyped non-entity

[Syrette]

I can imagine those who are calling for Big Sam's head are far better managers than him and have guided utter s**** into Europe. Nope, thought not. While we continue to give managers 5 months to turn around the club that could have been the next Leeds we will never get anywhere. FFs grab yourself some patience and learn to relax.

 

We've been patiently waiting to win something for almost 40 years, we've been patiently waiting to win a domestic trophy for more than 50 years and it's getting closer to the 100 year mark since we won a league title, I would think an 80 year wait is quite a while to be able to claim we've been more than patient.

 

So do you expect instant success from Sam then?

 

Owen.

 

Emre.

 

Viduka.

 

Zoggy.

 

The mackems have never in their entire history had a player within two bloody leagues of the class of these players. Man for man every single player (except GK) they have inferior players to NUFC.

 

I really cannot undertstand why people think its OK for us to go out and get dominated by the mackems. Right now we have a squad that shits all over them. It isn't just because its the derby, exact same argument Derby and Reading. Right now. And yet we get sent home tail between legs. WHY?

 

Because Allardyce has more skill and talent in those four players than he's ever had in his entire career and he has no idea how to use it. Sam clseems to have no desire/ability to use the talent of this squad away from home, and it is probably top 8 at best. That being the case, how is he the man to take us forward? What is the point of bringing in better talent in winter/next summer if he's just going to take it out to pride park and tell them to 'hold out lads, there's a point in this if we graft it'.

 

Lets face it, it isn't about instant success. It's about at this instant, Sam has a much much more talented squad than the bottom 8 teams at least, and he is showing little to no sign of being able to use it intelligently. He is making the same mistakes over and over again. I say give him the season, sure. But if by round 35 he is still going to bottom of the ladder and trying to graft out a point then can't we safely say he's out of his depth? Do we really need another 3 years of trying to turn michael owen into alan smith?

 

Great post. End of the day, we've got better players than a lot of Premiership teams (based on player quality alone I'd say we're top 6 material) yet we're struggling against so many of them. Ridiculous.

[The Bonk]

You've got to look at what Sam has done so far in what? 6 months?

 

Sold 2 creative players (Dyer and Solano) and brought in 2 battlers in Smith and Barton (one of whom I'll count as replacement for Parker so fair enough) So that leaves us not only a player short but with basically no creativity in the midfield apart from Zog who he seems to think is better at left back, even when he has Enrique who was a decent signing tbf sitting on the bench.

 

Insists on playing players out of positions, baffling tbh when a hell of a lot of people on here can see what he should be doing and where he's going wrong. I've given him up till now to learn from these mistakes and put players back to where they are effective, yet still, after a poor run of results he still comes up with these strange decisions like playing Barton on the right, Milner on the left blah blah. Just f****** stupidity.

 

Also this long ball s***, we had a period of play today after we scored where we got in and around Sunderland and played the ball on the deck and looked resonably threatening in an attacking sense. But then we still seem to fall back into the long ball up to the knackered Viduka and Owen, and we didn't look like scoring from one of these, most of the time the ball came straight back.

 

I just don't like where we're going at the moment with him and am praying he doesn't turn us into a Bolton like team, we've got players that can produce better than that. If he's to succeed he needs to change some things around and quick, you can be as good as you like with all this behind the scenes s*** but if you don't use your players effectively you're buggered. I've said before that he should be given time and I still hope he gets out of this stupid f****** mentality he has, but if he doesn't I don't think he'll last that long no matter what Mort says.

 

 

you're putting spin on that. i don't think there's a member here who would have said no to 6mill for dyer. also i he didn't want to sell solano, solano requested to leave, and we abliged, as we should have to such a great servant of the club. barton is also creative in my book, or at least that was my impression of him at citeh, didn't he lead their assists last season?

 

personally i'm going to accept allardyce's experimentation up to a point. i rate him as a manager, and experimentation is one thing that i think he is renound for. the only thing that concerns me atm is that he appears to be a slow learner, regarding things that don't work.

 

Selling Dyer and replacing him with Smith is awful which ever way you look at it, ok Dyer wanted to leave but he should have been replaced with a player with a similar amount of pace to get in behind defences.

 

 

 

I believe when used correctly, that is Zoggy's realm.  We have the players, they just need to be deployed properly. 

[Mick]

 

Owen.

 

Emre.

 

Viduka.

 

Zoggy.

 

The mackems have never in their entire history had a player within two bloody leagues of the class of these players. Man for man every single player (except GK) they have inferior players to NUFC.

 

I really cannot undertstand why people think its OK for us to go out and get dominated by the mackems. Right now we have a squad that shits all over them. It isn't just because its the derby, exact same argument Derby and Reading. Right now. And yet we get sent home tail between legs. WHY?

 

Because Allardyce has more skill and talent in those four players than he's ever had in his entire career and he has no idea how to use it. Sam clseems to have no desire/ability to use the talent of this squad away from home, and it is probably top 8 at best. That being the case, how is he the man to take us forward? What is the point of bringing in better talent in winter/next summer if he's just going to take it out to pride park and tell them to 'hold out lads, there's a point in this if we graft it'.

 

Lets face it, it isn't about instant success. It's about at this instant, Sam has a much much more talented squad than the bottom 8 teams at least, and he is showing little to no sign of being able to use it intelligently. He is making the same mistakes over and over again. I say give him the season, sure. But if by round 35 he is still going to bottom of the ladder and trying to graft out a point then can't we safely say he's out of his depth? Do we really need another 3 years of trying to turn michael owen into alan smith?

 

Well summed up.

[Syrette]

BTW I thought Viduka was superb today.

 

How the hell did Jones get MOTM? He didn't have a sniff all match.

 

Spot on, spent most of the game in Faye's pocket. Another over-hyped non-entity

 

He's had a decent goal return, he's set up a couple, he's put opposition defenders under pressure. Doing pretty well in my opinion.

[The Bonk]

I can imagine those who are calling for Big Sam's head are far better managers than him and have guided utter s**** into Europe. Nope, thought not. While we continue to give managers 5 months to turn around the club that could have been the next Leeds we will never get anywhere. FFs grab yourself some patience and learn to relax.

 

We've been patiently waiting to win something for almost 40 years, we've been patiently waiting to win a domestic trophy for more than 50 years and it's getting closer to the 100 year mark since we won a league title, I would think an 80 year wait is quite a while to be able to claim we've been more than patient.

 

So do you expect instant success from Sam then?

 

Owen.

 

Emre.

 

Viduka.

 

Zoggy.

 

The mackems have never in their entire history had a player within two bloody leagues of the class of these players. Man for man every single player (except GK) they have inferior players to NUFC.

 

I really cannot undertstand why people think its OK for us to go out and get dominated by the mackems. Right now we have a squad that shits all over them. It isn't just because its the derby, exact same argument Derby and Reading. Right now. And yet we get sent home tail between legs. WHY?

 

Because Allardyce has more skill and talent in those four players than he's ever had in his entire career and he has no idea how to use it. Sam clseems to have no desire/ability to use the talent of this squad away from home, and it is probably top 8 at best. That being the case, how is he the man to take us forward? What is the point of bringing in better talent in winter/next summer if he's just going to take it out to pride park and tell them to 'hold out lads, there's a point in this if we graft it'.

 

Lets face it, it isn't about instant success. It's about at this instant, Sam has a much much more talented squad than the bottom 8 teams at least, and he is showing little to no sign of being able to use it intelligently. He is making the same mistakes over and over again. I say give him the season, sure. But if by round 35 he is still going to bottom of the ladder and trying to graft out a point then can't we safely say he's out of his depth? Do we really need another 3 years of trying to turn michael owen into alan smith?

 

Great post. End of the day, we've got better players than a lot of Premiership teams (based on player quality alone I'd say we're top 6 material) yet we're struggling against so many of them. Ridiculous.

 

Maybe we're over-rating the quality of player we have.