them 1-1 Us - 10/11/07 - Official match thread (Post-match reaction from p15)

[BlueStar]

Mate of mine was sitting right near Ashley and said some bloke was giving him shit most of the game, saying how the performance was shit, how he needed to sort it out etc.  Great crack on the coaches giving the mackem bastards some shit.  Banged on the window at some fat bloke and he opened his shirt to reveal a toon tattoo in the midst of all the mackems in their tops, what a guy.  Song of the day had to be "4-1, even Chopra scored" when we were cueing at the turnstiles.

[Gallowgate Toon]

sams tactics are a joke, but we still got a point, so who cares.

[Keefaz]

It is quite obvious to me what BSA is doing in terms of team selection, like playing players out of position, rotating players and using the long ball tactic.  He wants the side to play sh*t in the first half of the season so that come Jan/Feb he can revert to a settled 11 playing 442 and getting a decent service into Own and Viduka/Martins.  We start scoring a hatful of goals, win games and shoot up the table with a fully fit squad, as none have been injured by playing week in week out in the first half of the season, and hey presto, Sam looks like a winner again as we finish in a Uefa spot.  The fact that it could have been a Champions league spot if he had adopted those tactics at the start of the season is overlooked by all and sundry as the great man is hailed a genious by the media for turning things around.  It's not rocket science is it, deliberately unbalancing the side so that when he plays players in their correct positions he looks like a miracle worker when it all comes together.

 

Thought I'd bump this, as this is the best conspiracy theory I've heard for some time. Parky, meet your challenger.

[Shayno]

It is quite obvious to me what BSA is doing in terms of team selection, like playing players out of position, rotating players and using the long ball tactic.  He wants the side to play sh*t in the first half of the season so that come Jan/Feb he can revert to a settled 11 playing 442 and getting a decent service into Own and Viduka/Martins.  We start scoring a hatful of goals, win games and shoot up the table with a fully fit squad, as none have been injured by playing week in week out in the first half of the season, and hey presto, Sam looks like a winner again as we finish in a Uefa spot.  The fact that it could have been a Champions league spot if he had adopted those tactics at the start of the season is overlooked by all and sundry as the great man is hailed a genious by the media for turning things around.  It's not rocket science is it, deliberately unbalancing the side so that when he plays players in their correct positions he looks like a miracle worker when it all comes together.

 

Thought I'd bump this, as this is the best conspiracy theory I've heard for some time. Parky, meet your challenger.

 

What vision...

[Northern Monkey]

Sam Allardyce proved himself to be nearly as clueless as our past few incumbents on Saturday.

 

Note:

 

1) 4 outfield players (40%) out of position.

2) Our best left back not playing

3) Our best left winger, who has already shown a decent understanding with said left back, played AT LEFT BACK.

4) A centre back that Sam (very stupidly) used the press to slate, played at RIGHT BACK (where he was still better than the right back Allardyce bought has been). Oh, and the player the centre back was supposed to learn off, suddenly not available after a sub-Bramble performance against Pompey.

5) Barton at right wing? Fuck off, Allardyce.

6) Owen off/Martins on - again. Jesus.

 

If Allardyce turns around in January and says he needs to replace Taylor, its because HE has fucked him, slating him then playing him out of position, like an arsehole.

 

We all know that stability is a good thing, no point getting rid of managers, yadda yadda, blah blah.......lets get this fucker straight - Allardyce is NOT the right man for us, he is NOT the man to get us back to being a top 5 side (sorry Parky, no 4th for us), and staying with him is NOT a good idea as he is not going to improve.

 

Oh, and if Barton had carried out that assault on one of OUR players, everyone on here would be baying for his blood. He's not a great player, he's a knobhead.

[Northern Monkey]

Having seen the highlights on MOTD, it seems to me that a major problem was that we gave them far too much time and space to put their crosses in. The opposition has got to be closed down and put under more pressure. At corners, they were allowed to take it short time and again, and that eventually led to their goal. The amount of time that the guy had to pick his cross was ridiculous.

 

One pleasing feature though was that we were trying to play the ball on the deck. We certainly weren't a 'long ball' team. Trouble was the players weren't really familiar enough with one another for our passing to work well. We actually failed to take advantage of some good situations by players not quite anticipating what the other was going to do, but that can improve.

 

They flattered us on MOTD

[Andy]

1) 4 outfield players (40%) out of position.

 

I'm glad you clarified that 4 out of 10 is 40%. It increased the dramatic impact of the statistic by at least 110% for me.

[toptoon]

I f****** hate these tactics i.e. lets cram the midfield to try and nick a draw against Derby, Reading and sunderland etc could half understand it away at Old Trafford ffs but this tactic is the absolute pits. i know he's trying to make us harder to beat but he's actually making us easier to beat by taking the attacking side out of our game and inviting teams to have a go whilst not offering much in th way of attacking back imo + its horrible to watch for us aswell.

 

If playing 442 please play with milner on the RW and zoggy on the LW as its not like they are crap at tracking back (i.e. Ginola, Robert) they are bloody good at tracking back and will offer us so much more on he wings than our central midfielders do.

 

As long as we are not in danger of relegation he deserves at least this season to show us he can improve us slowly but surely. I think he should revise his tactics though as the tactic of trying to nullify the opponent whilst ofering next to nothing back ourselves looks one that could ultimatly get him the sack if he persists with it. In which case get a more attack minded coach in.

 

Harper 7 -  Some very good saves, didn't play it out from the back much at all though (possibly not hi fault though).

Taylor 6- ok did his best tried hard, struggled with the very impressive Jones once the faye went off.

Faye 8 - Awesome first half great headers tackles and kept Jones at bay. Not so great early in second before went off with suspected hamstring strain.

Rozenhal 6 - ok possibly at fault for goal. Needs a partner like Faye.

Zog 6.5 - Tried to attack from LB should have played LW as we all know except Sam.

Barton 5.5 - Poor 1st half, better second. Getting better slowly. 

Smith 7 Good job as a defensive midfielder.

Emre 7 Worked hard, good tackles and looked the most likely to create something particularly in the second half once they scored.

Milner 6 - Worked hard but didn't really acheive much bar the all important goal.

Owen & Viduka 5 - It can be rightly argued that they didn't get much service its true. However they are for me both luxuary players who if we are not dominating the game and creating much are pretty useless, as they are both just good finishers, there's not much else to their game really, they don't create much themselves. They are not what you need in todays game as they are not capable of dropping deep into midfield helping out and picking up the ball running at players. Look at Manu with Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez three players who are quick and skillfull and who will drop back into the midfield to help out and can run at the opposition from deep if needs to, we are light years behind in this respect. Martins should have been on earlier probably for Viduka as he is capable of this. Jones (like Drogba) is a great example of the modern striker i.e. big strong, quick, intellegent and can shoot, score, head, good engine, capable of dropping deep to help out then storm forward with great effect.

 

 

[Northern Monkey]

1) 4 outfield players (40%) out of position.

 

I'm glad you clarified that 4 out of 10 is 40%. It increased the dramatic impact of the statistic by at least 110% for me.

 

ooh, the bite of sarcasm. Was your intention, I'm sure.

[Parky]

Sam Allardyce proved himself to be nearly as clueless as our past few incumbents on Saturday.

 

Note:

 

1) 4 outfield players (40%) out of position.

2) Our best left back not playing

3) Our best left winger, who has already shown a decent understanding with said left back, played AT LEFT BACK.

4) A centre back that Sam (very stupidly) used the press to slate, played at RIGHT BACK (where he was still better than the right back Allardyce bought has been). Oh, and the player the centre back was supposed to learn off, suddenly not available after a sub-Bramble performance against Pompey.

5) Barton at right wing? Fuck off, Allardyce.

6) Owen off/Martins on - again. Jesus.

 

If Allardyce turns around in January and says he needs to replace Taylor, its because HE has fucked him, slating him then playing him out of position, like an arsehole.

 

We all know that stability is a good thing, no point getting rid of managers, yadda yadda, blah blah.......lets get this fucker straight - Allardyce is NOT the right man for us, he is NOT the man to get us back to being a top 5 side (sorry Parky, no 4th for us), and staying with him is NOT a good idea as he is not going to improve.

 

Oh, and if Barton had carried out that assault on one of OUR players, everyone on here would be baying for his blood. He's not a great player, he's a knobhead.

 

Can't disagree with your analysis.

 

2 watercooled mainframes are chugging out the possible almost randomised positions of our players for Liverpool.

[Guest Elan]

Sam Allardyce proved himself to be nearly as clueless as our past few incumbents on Saturday.

 

Note:

 

1) 4 outfield players (40%) out of position.

2) Our best left back not playing

3) Our best left winger, who has already shown a decent understanding with said left back, played AT LEFT BACK.

4) A centre back that Sam (very stupidly) used the press to slate, played at RIGHT BACK (where he was still better than the right back Allardyce bought has been). Oh, and the player the centre back was supposed to learn off, suddenly not available after a sub-Bramble performance against Pompey.

5) Barton at right wing? f*** off, Allardyce.

6) Owen off/Martins on - again. Jesus.

 

If Allardyce turns around in January and says he needs to replace Taylor, its because HE has f***** him, slating him then playing him out of position, like an arsehole.

 

We all know that stability is a good thing, no point getting rid of managers, yadda yadda, blah blah.......lets get this fucker straight - Allardyce is NOT the right man for us, he is NOT the man to get us back to being a top 5 side (sorry Parky, no 4th for us), and staying with him is NOT a good idea as he is not going to improve.

 

Oh, and if Barton had carried out that assault on one of OUR players, everyone on here would be baying for his blood. He's not a great player, he's a knobhead.

 

:clap:

[Skirge]

It was a Monty Python performance "RUN AWAY" its what we did every time we lost the ball, we dropped off, dropped off, dropped off and dropped off until we were all pinned in our 18 yard box.

We need to stop dropping off so deep and try to win the ball back much higher up the pitch, hunt in packs to get the ball back. We are our own worst enemy when we lose possession all we do is invite teams onto us then we don't even go and close them down once we are pinned back.

We also are getting caught with short corners, they need to wake up and be much more alrt to these things.

[ChezGiven]

No one is really that happy with the style of play or the recent results but i think those claiming the Sunderland players dont come near ours in terms of quality are wrong and this is key to assessing our current situation.

 

Is the club full of superb players that are being fucked around with by an idiot manager, or are our players actually over-rated by us and in reality just an average premiership side?

 

For me, our players are ok, not that great, average, committment above technique type of players. Owen has no pace, neither has Viduka, Martins only has half a brain, there is no pace in the midfield and the defence is new and lacks prem experience. Our squad is not full of quality, its an average premiership side. I still hope we can get a UEFA cup spot this year but my belief that we could do it disappeared at the Portsmouth match. They are clearly a better side than us and have better players. There are a lot of other teams in this league that have better players.

 

We have probably got better players than Sunderland to be fair but the differences are marginal not enormous. When you realise how good our players really are then you can adjust the unrealistic expectations. If we continue to act like emotionally retarded adolescents then we will continue to believe that the sun shines out of our club's arse and continue to be disappointed with the reality of our situation.

 

Its all very well not acceptiong mediocrity and demanding success but expecting fucking miracles is another thing entirely.

[Parky]

No one is really that happy with the style of play or the recent results but i think those claiming the Sunderland players dont come near ours in terms of quality are wrong and this is key to assessing our current situation.

 

Is the club full of superb players that are being fucked around with by an idiot manager, or are our players actually over-rated by us and in reality just an average premiership side?

 

For me, our players are ok, not that great, average, committment above technique type of players. Owen has no pace, neither has Viduka, Martins only has half a brain, there is no pace in the midfield and the defence is new and lacks prem experience. Our squad is not full of quality, its an average premiership side. I still hope we can get a UEFA cup spot this year but my belief that we could do it disappeared at the Portsmouth match. They are clearly a better side than us and have better players. There are a lot of other teams in this league that have better players.

 

We have probably got better players than Sunderland to be fair but the differences are marginal not enormous. When you realise how good our players really are then you can adjust the unrealistic expectations. If we continue to act like emotionally retarded adolescents then we will continue to believe that the sun shines out of our club's arse and continue to be disappointed with the reality of our situation.

 

Its all very well not acceptiong mediocrity and demanding success but expecting fucking miracles is another thing entirely.

 

OMG! Emre is average...!111

 

 

 

 

 

Agree with all of that Chezzer.

[ChezGiven]

An overall assessment of Emre needs to include his tackling skills, positonal sense, tracking back, committment etc, not just his technique, which of course is very good.

[Guest alex]

Taylor was very poor and basically a liability again. Don't know how he escapes criticism as much as he does. That's why he wants selling btw. 

[Guest optimistic nit]

we still cant play with the ball on the deck, and until we can we're going nowhere. once we get start being able to play football we may see some improvement.

[Guest alex]

we still cant play with the ball on the deck, and until we can we're going nowhere. once we get start being able to play football we may see some improvement.

We did for about the first 10 minutes. It wasn't getting anywhere and they closed us down very well so we lost patience, stopped doing it and played into their hands.

[Dave]

No one is really that happy with the style of play or the recent results but i think those claiming the Sunderland players dont come near ours in terms of quality are wrong and this is key to assessing our current situation.

 

Is the club full of superb players that are being fucked around with by an idiot manager, or are our players actually over-rated by us and in reality just an average premiership side?

 

For me, our players are ok, not that great, average, committment above technique type of players. Owen has no pace, neither has Viduka, Martins only has half a brain, there is no pace in the midfield and the defence is new and lacks prem experience. Our squad is not full of quality, its an average premiership side. I still hope we can get a UEFA cup spot this year but my belief that we could do it disappeared at the Portsmouth match. They are clearly a better side than us and have better players. There are a lot of other teams in this league that have better players.

 

We have probably got better players than Sunderland to be fair but the differences are marginal not enormous. When you realise how good our players really are then you can adjust the unrealistic expectations. If we continue to act like emotionally retarded adolescents then we will continue to believe that the sun shines out of our club's arse and continue to be disappointed with the reality of our situation.

 

Its all very well not acceptiong mediocrity and demanding success but expecting fucking miracles is another thing entirely.

 

height=310 width=350http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/Smileys/Lots_O_Smileys/clap.gif[/img]

[Keefaz]

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/Smileys/Lots_O_Smileys/clap.gif

[Guest SLK]

Certainly Pompy, Man City, Everton, Blackburn, Tottenham, Aston Villa have good players, but I don't think their players overall are much better than ours...I think we do have a comparable team to these mentioned and our current position reflects that (Spurs should be much higher than they are now and they will get up the table and be among the rest of the group)...

 

What we are missing is stability in the formation and position of players...I don't see any of the above mentioned teams chopping and changing every game and players being given different positions each game...We are not in an injury crisis to keep shifting players' around so Allardyce needs to choose two formations depending on home or away and stick the right players at their best positions and enjoy the results of stability...

[Mowen]

Taylor was very poor and basically a liability again. Don't know how he escapes criticism as much as he does. That's why he wants selling btw.  

 

I agree, thought he was very poor again. Rozehnal looked distinctly less assured the moment he had to start playing alongside Taylor rather than Faye imo.

[ChezGiven]

http://www.true-faith.co.uk/html/tbawe.htm

 

Couldnt agree more.

[Tooj]

Taylor was very poor and basically a liability again. Don't know how he escapes criticism as much as he does. That's why he wants selling btw. 

 

His positioning at right-back is shocking.

 

He seems to still play on this image he has of being in the captain fantastic mould, and he's all over the shop, trying to be the hero if you will.

[Guest alex]

Taylor was very poor and basically a liability again. Don't know how he escapes criticism as much as he does. That's why he wants selling btw.  

 

His positioning at right-back is shocking.

 

He seems to still play on this image he has of being in the captain fantastic mould, and he's all over the shop, trying to be the hero if you will.

Aye but I'm never convinced when he's at centre-half either. When he moved there against Sunderland he was very lucky when he missed that header and let Jones in then fucked up the header back to Harper. He made a ridiculous challenge either just before or after that too on Jones on the edge of the box. When he tried to win a header that was never his ball and it fell to Jones who put his one-on-one chance just wide of Harper's post. You can't keep making those sort of mistakes at this level and expect to get away with it.