Guest nufc_geordie Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Sorry if this thread has been posted elsewhere, I didn't see it. I don't believe any of this bullsh*t about there being too many foreigners in the league and this stifling the development of young English players. I would agree with introducing a quota to limit the number of foreigners, after all it is the ENGLISH premier league. If a player is good enough then they will break through into a first team. My problem is the tactical ineptness of what seems to be an endless line of managers in the England job. When the like of Man Utd et al. play in Europe and attack teams they usually don't have a problem, infact the bigger clubs can't live with them at times. When Liverpool had nothing to lose in the champions league final and played with an attacking freedom they tore Milan apart; this is an example. I believe that if we played a premiership pace, direct attacking football we would have no problem winning international matches. The current approaches a la McLaren, Erikson of having to dictate tempo, at a slow pace then trying to speed it up, almost an old fashioned Italian style, doesn't suit our players, and if anything introduces a laziness factor into our game. From this stems us losing the ball, sloppy passing and marking and almost letting teams beat us. This was the main reason why I was against the appointment of McLaren. He had been involved for too long with the Erikkson regime and nothing changed apart from a couple of players. England need a fresh start, we are stale and are clueless. In many ways I would like Russia to beat Israel, eliminate us and give us the kick up the ar*e we need, but as an Englishmen I hope that doesn't happen. My fear is if Israel get a result, we've got at least another 2-3 years of inept tactical football that will achieve nothing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jungle Barry Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 We didn't qualify for the 1974 or the 1978 world cups, how many foreigners were playing in England then? It's a lazy argument blaming foreingers in my opinion, I agree with you we are tactically inept with no "plan B" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Monkey Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 We didn't qualify for the 1974 or the 1978 world cups, how many foreigners were playing in England then? It's a lazy argument blaming foreingers in my opinion, I agree with you we are tactically inept with no "plan B" Are you still talking about England, or NUFC? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nufc_geordie Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Both! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jungle Barry Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 The difference being with Newcastle I think it's just teething problems for want of a better phrase and will get better. The national team however are in need of massive overhaul, when they got rid of the swede the whole lot should've gone. Turd Grip, McLaren and any other hangers on, instead it's just a continuation of the last days of Sven. Uninspired and unwatchable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Li3nZ Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 "I believe that if we played a premiership pace, direct attacking football we would have no problem winning international matches. The current approaches a la McLaren, Erikson of having to dictate tempo, at a slow pace then trying to speed it up, almost an old fashioned Italian style, doesn't suit our players, and if anything introduces a laziness factor into our game." This part of your post. Genuinely believe this is our MAIN problem (among a couple of others). I have been saying this for somet time now. I think if a manager could get this right we would be more than half way there. It's basic, common sense. McLaren (and Allerdyce) need a slap, and someone to tell them to stop trying to be clever. PLAY TO YOUR STRENGTHS. i.e Do not try and play like Italy when we have players who are used to playing in the premier league every week for christs sake! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Until we stop running about like Energizer Bunnies and learn to hold the ball we're stuffed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Monkey Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 The difference being with Newcastle I think it's just teething problems for want of a better phrase and will get better. The national team however are in need of massive overhaul, when they got rid of the swede the whole lot should've gone. Turd Grip, McLaren and any other hangers on, instead it's just a continuation of the last days of Sven. Uninspired and unwatchable. Why will NUFC get better? Do you expect Allardyce to suddenly become more flexible, stop trying to jam square pegs into round holes, and gain some new-found ability to amend the style of the team based on neccessity, not just blindly stick to one style? As for England, the problem is the head coach and the FA, nothing else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Spectrum Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 There are 4 main problems. Obviously, the manager isn't cut out for a job of this magnitude. Secondly, and IMO the biggest problem, is the way our side is selected. Its been the same way for years and I don't understand it. The most obvious example is Gerrard and Lampard but the selection seems to be governed by the notion that whoever plays the best in whatever position at club level gets to play in that position at international level. See also John Barnes, who did fuck all for England but kept getting picked, Wayne Rooney - no goals in 3 years but remaining an automatic choice, even John Terry, who IMO has been shite for England but continues to be an automatic selection. Don't get it. To me players who play well for their clubs have every right to be considered for the squad. But from the squad the team shouldn't be picked on the basis of "Best left back, best 2 centre halves, best right winger....etc". Should be more thought put into it, to try and forge a team that can not only work well for each other but are well suited to the international style of football where possession is king. Garry Barry got in by fluke but he's the perfect example of a player who few would consider to be the best in his position but he's so well suited to the international game with his passing ability. McClaren stumbled onto it with him due to injuries, a competent manager would be scouring the country looking for similar players. Maybe a little bizarrely, I think Leon Osman should be considered. Not the best player in the league by a long shot but he's the type of player who to me, like Barry, looks like he would be comfortable playing in the international style. There must be more players out there who are maybe better examples but he sprang to mind. Focus on technichal competence and intelligent use of the ball is the way ahead if we're gonna match up to Brazil and co. Not the square peg/round hole style were going to see tonight or the poor mans premiership style (Eg Heskey/Owen) that only works against eastern bloc plumbers and bricklayers. Problem the 3rd, the captaincy. John Terry is the captain. Why? Does that not just mean he's an automatic selection. I have no problem with him wearing the armband if selected, but no player should be automatic choice. Especially players I wouldn't have in my side such as him and previously Beckham. End the permanent captaincy. And finally, the establishment. This idea that someone is an "established international". Humbug. IMO players who get into the squad a couple of times have it far too easy. It seems to get to a certain point and they are selected forevermore. In spite of however poorly they are playing. What will it take to make Paul Robinson no longer an England player? Jermaine Jenas, Alan Smith, Phil Neville, etc...hopeless players getting called up again, and again....and again...why? Whoever is in charge would be better off forgetting these wasters and taking a chance on someone (See point #2.) In conclusion, I should be england manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 All spot on that, but I also think whoever the manager is he'll never dare not pick players on their club form/position. He'd get slaughtered from the press at the slightest sign of a problem, for a start. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Spectrum Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 All spot on that, but I also think whoever the manager is he'll never dare not pick players on their club form/position. He'd get slaughtered from the press at the slightest sign of a problem, for a start. Problem the 5th, the press. Too much influence and put the side under too much pressure with their fickle kneejerking and unrealistic expectations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teepee Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 the manager is the problem, and was the problem you need some sort of a psycho who doesn't give a fuck what anyone thinks about him - players and press alike oh hey, and your keeper!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieDazzler Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 you need some sort of a psycho who doesn't give a fuck what anyone thinks about him - players and press alike Souness? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Agree with all of that Dr S, espescially about the manager putting thought into picking a team that works together, rather than eleven individuals who he (or the national press) thinks look good at club level. I think the talk about foreigners in our game and grassroots training are just lazy excuses. 3 of the "big four" have English players forming the nucleus of their teams, while the biggest teams outside the top 4 (Everton, Blackburn, Tottenham, Newcastle, Villa, Man City etc) have plenty of English players. As for the grassroots training argument, it's a ridiculous one to be honest. It's naive to expect the English to start playing like Brazilians or Italians, or to assume that there is any formula for success. The Brazilians traditionally play the most open football in the world, the Italians perhaps the most cautious football in the world. That's the way football is in those countries. They've won more world cups than anybody and they've done it in totally different ways. There is no set formula for success. English teams will groom their kids to play in the English league. Of course that means they will train them to handle the speed and physicality of their own league, do you honestly expect Newcastle to train its youngsters for tiqui-taca against the Spanish or catenaccio against the Italians? Any Premier League club will train its young players to handle the Premier League, it's not rocket science. Another excuse trotted out is that not enough of our players are plying their trade abroad, but it's never harmed the Italians. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 The players are over-rated due to the hype of the Premier League. In my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Problem the 3rd, the captaincy. John Terry is the captain. Why? Does that not just mean he's an automatic selection. I have no problem with him wearing the armband if selected, but no player should be automatic choice. Especially players I wouldn't have in my side such as him and previously Beckham. End the permanent captaincy. I like the sound of that. There isn't really much for a captain to do most of the year, as the squad aren't together. Maybe though we could announce who the permanent captain is for international tournaments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nguyen Van Falk Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 It's pretty simple, other teams have better players/managers/squads than England. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 The players are over-rated due to the hype of the Premier League. In my opinion. Very true. You'd think the very fact we've won nowt since 1966 would count for something but it appears not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nguyen Van Falk Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Be intresting to see how many English players play regular in the top 4 teams of the German, English, Spanish and Italian leagues compared to the number of german/italian/spanish players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Be intresting to see how many English players play regular in the top 4 teams of the German, English, Spanish and Italian leagues compared to the number of german/italian/spanish players. England are bound to lose as many English players are stupid enough to not want to play abroad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobby Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Re: What is the problem with our national team? i think the problem is we are playing too defensive, the defence does need time to settle though. Another problem is layers are playing out of postion, which doesn't help towards the settling of the team and i believe Martins should be playing every game. Allardyce also needs time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 gerrard and lampard cant play together Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 gerrard and lampard cant play together Thanks for pointing that one out Kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nguyen Van Falk Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 The problem with the English team is managerial talent like Kev is going unnoticed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decky Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Count yourselfs lucky Harry_Norway isnt English lads! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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