The true value of Sam Allardyce

[Zero]

I have been watching nearly all the games this season and now I finally realize what he's doing, and why Bolton is so successful while we don't.

 

Sam's true value is on his defense tactics: pressing and counter attack.

And that's what he is trying to implement now, ignoring our offense (actually he did but that's another controversial issue)

To play this kind of tactics, the most important requirements are player's stamina and commitment. Their technique, comparatively, is not that important.

IF it is effective, it is the tactic that can bring us back to CL. Sam use it in Bolton and successfully brings them into UEFA Cup.

However if it isn't then we even cannot win against Derby. It is a very risky tactic, but it has been proved successful.

 

So a lot of things can be explained

 

1. Why use Barton/Smith instead of Emre

A. Emre's stamina isn't good enough. Commitment is arguable though.

 

2. Why we cannot attack

A. His priority is to play pressing rather than possession football. In other words, pressing is more important than attacking

 

3. Why we sucks against Fulham, Derby, etc shitter teams

A. Players aren't that committed/focused. The pressing simply collapse if anyone isn't paying 100% effort on pressing.

The other scenario is, we play exceptionally well against Arsenal, a match where pressing is completely executed because everyone in the pitch is fully committed.

 

The point is, pressing is a very strong tactic and it has been proved successful before (Bolton and Newcastle under SBR)

but I am not sure whether Allardyce has the time for fully implementing it.

SBR needs almost 2 seasons for doing that but I don't think Sam will be given 2 seasons for such a poor display.

SBR has the time due to his reputation---people always forget that we played very poorly during his first 2 seasons. Just mid-table finish.

 

So,are you willing to give it a try? The pressing tactic? Do you really believe Sam can bring his true value in Bolton to Newcastle?

This is a long term question. Rozehnal may be shipped out, Martins may become another Diouf, Given may be sold...who knows.

But what we can really expect from Sam is his matured pressing tactic---the one we have been playing before.

 

Possession football is a surplus. Sam may do it AFTER his pressing tactic is finished, but not before.

 

Is a matured pressing tactic what you want? If yes, give him 2 seasons and if not, sack him now. Any decision within this period is a waste of money.

[juniatmoko]

let makes sense now.... the reason bolton can be successful because they had anelka and diouf... the one is very lethal striker & the other one is very "slick" player.... wonder if they both doesn't exist....  did bolton can be successful as they are...? with sam tactics? sam should manages to make the player come out with the best value... rather forcing them doing his "dictator" tactics

[Taylor Swift]

It's a method of defending as far as I'm concerned (pressing). I don't see how it should dictate the way we attack, and because I currently see no shape nor a real way that our attacks work, I'm worried that Allardyce hasn't got his priorities sorted.

[Zero]

It's a method of defending as far as I'm concerned (pressing). I don't see how it should dictate the way we attack, and because I currently see no shape nor a real way that our attacks work, I'm worried that Allardyce hasn't got his priorities sorted.

 

The priorities for Allardyce is not the result this season but the completion of his defense tactics. He rates it so high that he is willing to give up attack by putting a midfield that has no chance to build up good plays.

 

That's why I am asking, does it worth to invest 2 seasons for completing his tactics?

[Zero]

let makes sense now.... the reason bolton can be successful because they had anelka and diouf... the one is very lethal striker & the other one is very "slick" player.... wonder if they both doesn't exist....  did bolton can be successful as they are...? with sam tactics? sam should manages to make the player come out with the best value... rather forcing them doing his "dictator" tactics

 

No, it isnot Diouf and Anelka. The real ace for Sam during his Bolton reign is Okocha.

[Crumpy Gunt]

He's a worthless cunt. FACT.

[jack j]

He's a worthless c***. FACT.

[Ronaldo]

sacking him right now would be silly to say the least

 

but in fairness, the worst three games i've experienced at St James's park in the last 14 years have all taken place this season, something is seriously wrong

[Guest Brewcastle]

He's a worthless c***. FACT.

[Ridman]

sacking him right now would be silly to say the least

 

but in fairness, the worst three games i've experienced at St James's park in the last 14 years have all taken place this season, something is seriously wrong

 

Worse than when we lost 1-5 to Birmingham and 1-2 to Sheffield United last season?

[Rich]

People's memories are very short, it's mighty amusing.

 

I was talking to my brother about this last night and mentioning some of the recent farces we've witnessed at NUFC, not just pertaining to results. Names like Rossi, Sibierski, Onyewu, Luque, Moore, Johnsen, Amdy Faye, Lee Clark, Huntington, BERNARD, SRNICEK. Results like 1-5 against Birmingham, 1-2 against Sheff Utd, 1-2 against Fulham, 0-0 with Charlton last season, some of the disgusting results under Souness as well - Clark saving him at home to 'Boro, Barry's penalty miss for Villa at 1-1, the financial state of the club, the constant injuries/lack of any real set-up at all levels of NUFC.

 

Are things REALLY that bad now when you engage your brain and remember what we've put up with since Robson?

 

I'm personally far happier than I was under Souness and Roeder, because I can see visible progress (not just as far as results go, although we're higher in the table at this point in the season than we have been for a few years), the cloud has been lifted... am I the only one?

 

Today wasn't great, of course it wasn't, and it's not the only time. But it's still very early days for all concerned.

[nufcjmc]

People's memories are very short, it's mighty amusing.

 

I was talking to my brother about this last night and mentioning some of the recent farces we've witnessed at NUFC, not just pertaining to results. Names like Rossi, Sibierski, Onyewu, Luque, Moore, Johnsen, Amdy Faye, Lee Clark, Huntington, BERNARD, SRNICEK. Results like 1-5 against Birmingham, 1-2 against Sheff Utd, 1-2 against Fulham, 0-0 with Charlton last season, some of the disgusting results under Souness as well - Clark saving him at home to 'Boro, Barry's penalty miss for Villa at 1-1, the financial state of the club, the constant injuries/lack of any real set-up at all levels of NUFC.

 

Are things REALLY that bad now when you engage your brain and remember what we've put up with since Robson?

 

I'm personally far happier than I was under Souness and Roeder, because I can see visible progress (not just as far as results go, although we're higher in the table at this point in the season than we have been for a few years), the cloud has been lifted... am I the only one?

 

Today wasn't great, of course it wasn't, and it's not the only time. But it's still very early days for all concerned.

 

I think Brummie hit in on the nail when he said many had us up there back in the mix of top 6 no problems I knew this season and possibly even the next was going to be tricky. Alot more clubs out there have become alot better there is now a pack of teams from 6th- 12th that all seem to be swapping league positions. I think many myself being one feel rather let down when we seem to play so badly against the "lesser teams"

[Ronaldo]

sacking him right now would be silly to say the least

 

but in fairness, the worst three games i've experienced at St James's park in the last 14 years have all taken place this season, something is seriously wrong

 

Worse than when we lost 1-5 to Birmingham and 1-2 to Sheffield United last season?

 

sheff u was 0-1, and yes to both questions

[Rich]

People's memories are very short, it's mighty amusing.

 

I was talking to my brother about this last night and mentioning some of the recent farces we've witnessed at NUFC, not just pertaining to results. Names like Rossi, Sibierski, Onyewu, Luque, Moore, Johnsen, Amdy Faye, Lee Clark, Huntington, BERNARD, SRNICEK. Results like 1-5 against Birmingham, 1-2 against Sheff Utd, 1-2 against Fulham, 0-0 with Charlton last season, some of the disgusting results under Souness as well - Clark saving him at home to 'Boro, Barry's penalty miss for Villa at 1-1, the financial state of the club, the constant injuries/lack of any real set-up at all levels of NUFC.

 

Are things REALLY that bad now when you engage your brain and remember what we've put up with since Robson?

 

I'm personally far happier than I was under Souness and Roeder, because I can see visible progress (not just as far as results go, although we're higher in the table at this point in the season than we have been for a few years), the cloud has been lifted... am I the only one?

 

Today wasn't great, of course it wasn't, and it's not the only time. But it's still very early days for all concerned.

 

I think Brummie hit in on the nail when he said many had us up there back in the mix of top 6 no problems I knew this season and possibly even the next was going to be tricky. Alot more clubs out there have become alot better there is now a pack of teams from 6th- 12th that all seem to be swapping league positions. I think many myself being one feel rather let down when we seem to play so badly against the "lesser teams"

 

I think you're right. I had personally hoped for a run at the top six this season, which is looking increasingly unlikely, (even though we're only 4 points behind 6th place now). It's funny how raised expectations lead to increased feelings of disappointment... anyone who says anything this season is worse than losing 1-5 to a Championship team needs a lobotomy, in my humble opinion.

 

Today was massive really, and unfortunately Allardyce and the players have blown it. 2 points behind Everton/Portsmouth, 1 point behind Villa and still only 5 points off Liverpool and things look miles better. Of course it's only 2 points dropped, in the grand scheme of things, but Sam will know how important a win was here.

 

Wigan takes on huge importance now, even more than it had previously. Let's hope for a Bramble disaster or two.

[nufcjmc]

People's memories are very short, it's mighty amusing.

 

I was talking to my brother about this last night and mentioning some of the recent farces we've witnessed at NUFC, not just pertaining to results. Names like Rossi, Sibierski, Onyewu, Luque, Moore, Johnsen, Amdy Faye, Lee Clark, Huntington, BERNARD, SRNICEK. Results like 1-5 against Birmingham, 1-2 against Sheff Utd, 1-2 against Fulham, 0-0 with Charlton last season, some of the disgusting results under Souness as well - Clark saving him at home to 'Boro, Barry's penalty miss for Villa at 1-1, the financial state of the club, the constant injuries/lack of any real set-up at all levels of NUFC.

 

Are things REALLY that bad now when you engage your brain and remember what we've put up with since Robson?

 

I'm personally far happier than I was under Souness and Roeder, because I can see visible progress (not just as far as results go, although we're higher in the table at this point in the season than we have been for a few years), the cloud has been lifted... am I the only one?

 

Today wasn't great, of course it wasn't, and it's not the only time. But it's still very early days for all concerned.

 

I think Brummie hit in on the nail when he said many had us up there back in the mix of top 6 no problems I knew this season and possibly even the next was going to be tricky. Alot more clubs out there have become alot better there is now a pack of teams from 6th- 12th that all seem to be swapping league positions. I think many myself being one feel rather let down when we seem to play so badly against the "lesser teams"

 

I think you're right. I had personally hoped for a run at the top six this season, which is looking increasingly unlikely, (even though we're only 4 points behind 6th place now). It's funny how raised expectations lead to increased feelings of disappointment... anyone who says anything this season is worse than losing 1-5 to a Championship team needs a lobotomy, in my humble opinion.

 

Today was massive really, and unfortunately Allardyce and the players have blown it. 2 points behind Everton/Portsmouth, 1 point behind Villa and still only 5 points off Liverpool and things look miles better. Of course it's only 2 points dropped, in the grand scheme of things, but Sam will know how important a win was here.

 

Wigan takes on huge importance now, even more than it had previously. Let's hope for a Bramble disaster or two.

 

we all tried to tell ourselves not to think about steam rolling a team as "no team is easy to beat in the prem" and "on their day any team can beat another" but lets be honest we were all licking our lips at this fixture especially sinse its really a tough few games comming up and with players going and unkown transfer situation we can all start to feel negative again. I said before the season I would be happy for top 10 this is still very likely maybe even an intertoto cup place maybe be all we can hope for but this is still progress in my opinion based off the last few seasons as there have been so many across the board type changes.

[eaststar]

let makes sense now.... the reason bolton can be successful because they had anelka and diouf... the one is very lethal striker & the other one is very "slick" player.... wonder if they both doesn't exist....  did bolton can be successful as they are...? with sam tactics? sam should manages to make the player come out with the best value... rather forcing them doing his "dictator" tactics

mackems.gif

 

I was trying to read the content of the first post but this made me lose it 

[eaststar]

sacking him right now would be silly to say the least

 

but in fairness, <b>the worst three games</b> i've experienced at St James's park in the last 14 years have all taken place this season, something is seriously wrong

 

that's a BIG call - given we've had Souness, Gullit, Roeder in charge and I'm pretty sure I've seen countless games that were far far worse during those periods. 

[Zero]

 

I was trying to read the content of the first post but this made me lose it 

 

Digested version:

Sam is sacrificing nearly everything to build up a long term defensive tactics, the one which brings Bolton a chance to play in UEFA Cup.

That's what we can have within two years, it is a proven one,

but if you don't want it, then just fire him now. Or else have faith and give him 2 seasons to complete the tactic.

[Guest exilim]

 

I was trying to read the content of the first post but this made me lose it 

 

Digested version:

Sam is sacrificing nearly everything to build up a long term defensive tactics, the one which brings Bolton a chance to play in UEFA Cup.

That's what we can have within two years, it is a proven one,

but if you don't want it, then just fire him now. Or else have faith and give him 2 seasons to complete the tactic.

 

Completion of a tactic requires the right players to be deployed at their right positions. I don't see martins staying with us for long because he isn't the type that clicks into Sam's system. There is a possibility that if we buy arshavin and throw him on the RWF and use duff on the LWF, it might actually work; especially when we have viduka as the lone striker or targetman.

 

Maybe in short, we have the players to pressure but do not have the players to play a fast counter attacking game.

[Shearer9]

sacking him right now would be silly to say the least

 

but in fairness, <b>the worst three games</b> i've experienced at St James's park in the last 14 years have all taken place this season, something is seriously wrong

 

that's a BIG call - given we've had Souness, Gullit, Roeder in charge and I'm pretty sure I've seen countless games that were far far worse during those periods. 

Had Souness or Roeder been in charge today, we'd have conceded that early goal, slowly lost any kind of grip we had on the game, and in the end, lost any chance of a comeback going down to another late goal to make it 0-2.  At least with Sam there's always fight in the team, and some semblance of an idea of how to get back into a game.

[Ronaldo]

 

I was trying to read the content of the first post but this made me lose it 

 

Digested version:

Sam is sacrificing nearly everything to build up a long term defensive tactics, the one which brings Bolton a chance to play in UEFA Cup.

That's what we can have within two years, it is a proven one,

but if you don't want it, then just fire him now. Or else have faith and give him 2 seasons to complete the tactic.

 

oh yeah, long term, that must why our best players are either being played out of position or over 28

[Guest Brewcastle]

sacking him right now would be silly to say the least

 

but in fairness, <b>the worst three games</b> i've experienced at St James's park in the last 14 years have all taken place this season, something is seriously wrong

 

that's a BIG call - given we've had Souness, Gullit, Roeder in charge and I'm pretty sure I've seen countless games that were far far worse during those periods. 

Had Souness or Roeder been in charge today, we'd have conceded that early goal, slowly lost any kind of grip we had on the game, and in the end, lost any chance of a comeback going down to another late goal to make it 0-2.  At least with Sam there's always fight in the team, and some semblance of an idea of how to get back into a game.

Not so sure about that. Roeder had even more plan with the play and formation than Sam seems to have. But didn't have the same squad to pick from... -And of course the injuries (that many people - who had made up their mind that Roeder's Sh** - get mad about if mentioned.... )

I'm happy about Roeder taking Norwich from a hopeless situation, and up the table.

Merry Christmas Mr. Roeder!

 

[Dave]

Four or five English pounds.

[Ericz]

I have been watching nearly all the games this season and now I finally realize what he's doing, and why Bolton is so successful while we don't.

 

Sam's true value is on his defense tactics: pressing and counter attack.

And that's what he is trying to implement now, ignoring our offense (actually he did but that's another controversial issue)

To play this kind of tactics, the most important requirements are player's stamina and commitment. Their technique, comparatively, is not that important.

IF it is effective, it is the tactic that can bring us back to CL. Sam use it in Bolton and successfully brings them into UEFA Cup.

However if it isn't then we even cannot win against Derby. It is a very risky tactic, but it has been proved successful.

 

So a lot of things can be explained

 

1. Why use Barton/Smith instead of Emre

A. Emre's stamina isn't good enough. Commitment is arguable though.

 

2. Why we cannot attack

A. His priority is to play pressing rather than possession football. In other words, pressing is more important than attacking

 

3. Why we sucks against Fulham, Derby, etc shitter teams

A. Players aren't that committed/focused. The pressing simply collapse if anyone isn't paying 100% effort on pressing.

The other scenario is, we play exceptionally well against Arsenal, a match where pressing is completely executed because everyone in the pitch is fully committed.

 

The point is, pressing is a very strong tactic and it has been proved successful before (Bolton and Newcastle under SBR)

but I am not sure whether Allardyce has the time for fully implementing it.

SBR needs almost 2 seasons for doing that but I don't think Sam will be given 2 seasons for such a poor display.

SBR has the time due to his reputation---people always forget that we played very poorly during his first 2 seasons. Just mid-table finish.

 

So,are you willing to give it a try? The pressing tactic? Do you really believe Sam can bring his true value in Bolton to Newcastle?

This is a long term question. Rozehnal may be shipped out, Martins may become another Diouf, Given may be sold...who knows.

But what we can really expect from Sam is his matured pressing tactic---the one we have been playing before.

 

Possession football is a surplus. Sam may do it AFTER his pressing tactic is finished, but not before.

 

Is a matured pressing tactic what you want? If yes, give him 2 seasons and if not, sack him now. Any decision within this period is a waste of money.

 

I think he makes lots of sense.

 

Being too impatient achieves nothing. Give him a season or 2 and as long as he does not get us relegated, he cannot do worse than the disappointment in the previous seasons I reckon. Sometimes, awareness is needed and over-expecting is an unhealthy thing.

 

 

~Merry Christmas

Ericz

[La Parka]

 

 

I think he makes lots of sense.

 

Being too impatient achieves nothing. Give him a season or 2 and as long as he does not get us relegated, he cannot do worse than the disappointment in the previous seasons I reckon. Sometimes, awareness is needed and over-expecting is an unhealthy thing.

 

 

~Merry Christmas

Ericz

 

I'd like to echo the points made by these two posters.

 

Where has chopping and changing got us over the last few years? Nowhere.

 

As long as he improves on last season this season (ie: top 12 or so) and then builds on that the season after I can't see the point in changing our manager.

 

Sam's signings have perhaps been hit and miss but we have to remeber how much dead wood was left over from the Roeder and Souness days. Players who were overpriced, over injured and rubbish. We saw something like 11 players out over the summer with 9 or so coming in. The first window, as previously mentioned has been hit and miss, with some players being un replaced (Mainly Dire and Solano - Evident in our lack of Right sided players) however, when you look at the squad from say Fulham, 6 new signings were playing. Now I know we should be seeing them working as a team, there have been some good spells of play, Arsenal for one. I think, once Sam has another summer window he really can get the players he needs to play the formations he is comfortable with, and, at present, we look poor where players can't do what is asked of him.

 

In my opinion he deserves time. He needs to get his squad together, get them playing his way. Changing again would be pointless.

 

Another problem, not with Sam but the fans is the immense expectation. We are not a top 6 club, we are not even top 10. Yes we have good fans (sometimes) a nice stadium however are we really a more attractive proposition than Villa, Man City, Everton or even Blackburn? Attracting the right players is going to be hard, and, we will have to hope Sam can attract what he needs for his side to work, and, for that, he needs the chairmans backing.