Mr Logic Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Poll results seem pretty conclusive. Post it to Mort. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Monkey Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Shocking that more than half of the people responding don't realize that our players are simply of inferior quality. That may be the cause of unrealistic expectations. I just don't think we have a fantastic group of players in the context of the Premiership. Who would get in a top 4 side? Oba maybe? Expensive does not equal exceptional. Of course we are miles off top 4 quality but I would have said, most of our players would have been of a quality to interest a top 8/9 side. top 8/9 isn't good enough. Few of our players - and very very few of the new ones Fat Sam has bought - would interest the 5th placed team. Which is where WE keep telling ourselves we belong. Big club? Are we fuck. Not while we cry like smacked bitches that shite such as Allardyce need more time. Get him the fuck out, get someone GOOD in, and then see how big a club we can be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sniffer Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 What's more shocking, Chicago-Shearer, is that you think martin's might get into a top four team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Monkey Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 What's more shocking, Chicago-Shearer, is that you think martin's might get into a top four team. He might. They might need someone to put the cones out. They can have Shola (pile of donkey shite" Ameobi as well, in case they need anything getting down from a high shelf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Shocking that more than half of the people responding don't realize that our players are simply of inferior quality. That may be the cause of unrealistic expectations. I just don't think we have a fantastic group of players in the context of the Premiership. Who would get in a top 4 side? Oba maybe? Expensive does not equal exceptional. Of course we are miles off top 4 quality but I would have said, most of our players would have been of a quality to interest a top 8/9 side. top 8/9 isn't good enough. Few of our players - and very very few of the new ones Fat Sam has bought - would interest the 5th placed team. Which is where WE keep telling ourselves we belong. Big club? Are we fuck. Not while we cry like smacked bitches that shite such as Allardyce need more time. Get him the fuck out, get someone GOOD in, and then see how big a club we can be. I think 8/9th would have been/will be good enough for this season with a view to pushing on next season. On current form no one would interest liverpool/man city/everton but if they were playing to the best of their abilities who knows. I remain convinced that our players are good and am more and more convinced that Sam is just making them look stupendously shite Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE6 Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 What is the cause of Newcastle's problems? A fat, stubborn pric of a manager who is out of his depth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrette Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Who is Martin? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Monkey Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Shocking that more than half of the people responding don't realize that our players are simply of inferior quality. That may be the cause of unrealistic expectations. I just don't think we have a fantastic group of players in the context of the Premiership. Who would get in a top 4 side? Oba maybe? Expensive does not equal exceptional. Of course we are miles off top 4 quality but I would have said, most of our players would have been of a quality to interest a top 8/9 side. top 8/9 isn't good enough. Few of our players - and very very few of the new ones Fat Sam has bought - would interest the 5th placed team. Which is where WE keep telling ourselves we belong. Big club? Are we fuck. Not while we cry like smacked bitches that shite such as Allardyce need more time. Get him the fuck out, get someone GOOD in, and then see how big a club we can be. I think 8/9th would have been/will be good enough for this season with a view to pushing on next season. On current form no one would interest liverpool/man city/everton but if they were playing to the best of their abilities who knows. I remain convinced that our players are good and am more and more convinced that Sam is just making them look stupendously shite First - 8th/9th is OKAY this season, because Sam The Fat Wanker has fucked us up. But please be under no illusion, it is NOT good enough, and should lose him his job, bearing in mind what he has done. Second - Enrique. Cacapa. Rozenhal. Duff. Geremi. Smith. Barton. Viduka. None of these fuckers is going to be troubling the "wanted" list of top 6 clubs. And thats without talking about crap like Carr, Ameobi, Ramage, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Steve Round look at England & Newcastle!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbo_11 Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 We haven't moved from a group of players into a team of players yet. There are four processes when changing a group of individuals into a successful team: Forming - familiarisation - interpersonal comparisons Storming - resistance to the group - rules are developed Norming - team identity formed - conflicts resolved Performing - energy channelled towards team success - close rapport among group - mutual encouragement Basically, Newcastle are in the process of moulding together a new team, from the playing side to the management. To expect success instantly is impossible as the players are beginning to get familiarised with the situation as are the management. However, constant team changes, tactical changes injuries, change of captaincy etc disrupt this process and therefore it takes longer. It is imperative that the correct players are bought to fit the system and team ethic. It was mentioned before the Arsenal game about an apparent dispute between players and management. This "rift" between Given et al and the management links directly to the second process. As Sam has came in and tried to create new rules with regards fitness, diets and training it was reported that some members of the group were unhappy with this. More recently there was "uproar" about staying in London before a game with Chelsea over the festive period. It is natural for a group to test the boundaries of how far they can go when challenging the management, but to keep going against the management stops the development of the group. The norming stage is key to team success. It was mentioned that there was arguments during the Wigan Athletic between players, clearly no conflict being resolved. The desire for success seems to be lacking as well, "..the players looked like they were a side already beaten when leaving the team bus..." and distinguishes a succesful side from an unsuccessful side. Performing is the final stage when a group becomes a team and enables inidividuals to develop a close rapport, understand team roles and rules. Problems with Newcastle Effective team traits (Amshel 2003) include: - appropriate leadership - something which has been mentioned and I feel is lacking. The captain is an individual who can commend the respect of players and communicate efficiently with both management and the players. Smith can easily lose his head in moments of heat, while Geremi is not fully commited in all aspects of the game (pulling out of challenges). - constructive climate - Barton criticism of the fans was an awful bit of PR, although it wasn't as bad as was reported. Players should wait until the situation to air opinions is relevant and also after a positive period of time. Is Sam Allardyce open to constructive criticism? I think he is, I'm sure he asked player if it was him they disliked after a poor performance and was met with silence. A group of players against change. No clearly defined roles - having so many backroom staff can't help. Players who dislike members of the group. Without time a group cannot development and with high expectations from fans the group faces massive pressure to perform on and off the field. The longer this goes on and financial implications become greater the worse it will get. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 We haven't moved from a group of players into a team of players yet. There are four processes when changing a group of individuals into a successful team: Forming - familiarisation - interpersonal comparisons Storming - resistance to the group - rules are developed Norming - team identity formed - conflicts resolved Performing - energy channelled towards team success - close rapport among group - mutual encouragement Basically, Newcastle are in the process of moulding together a new team, from the playing side to the management. To expect success instantly is impossible as the players are beginning to get familiarised with the situation as are the management. However, constant team changes, tactical changes injuries, change of captaincy etc disrupt this process and therefore it takes longer. It is imperative that the correct players are bought to fit the system and team ethic. It was mentioned before the Arsenal game about an apparent dispute between players and management. This "rift" between Given et al and the management links directly to the second process. As Sam has came in and tried to create new rules with regards fitness, diets and training it was reported that some members of the group were unhappy with this. More recently there was "uproar" about staying in London before a game with Chelsea over the festive period. It is natural for a group to test the boundaries of how far they can go when challenging the management, but to keep going against the management stops the development of the group. The norming stage is key to team success. It was mentioned that there was arguments during the Wigan Athletic between players, clearly no conflict being resolved. The desire for success seems to be lacking as well, "..the players looked like they were a side already beaten when leaving the team bus..." and distinguishes a succesful side from an unsuccessful side. Performing is the final stage when a group becomes a team and enables inidividuals to develop a close rapport, understand team roles and rules. Problems with Newcastle Effective team traits (Amshel 2003) include: - approproiate leadership - something which has been mentioned and I feel is lacking. The captain is an individual who can commend the respect of players and communicate efficiently with both management and the players. Smith can easily lose his head in moments of heat, while Geremi is not fully commited in all aspects of the game (pulling out of challenges). - constructive climate - Barton criticism of the fans was an awful bit of PR, although it wasn't as bad as was reported. Players should wait until the situation to air opinions is relevant and also after a positive period of time. Is Sam Allardyce open to constructive criticism? I think he is, I'm sure he asked player if it was him they disliked after a poor performance and was met with silence. A group of players against change. No clearly defined roles - having so many backroom staff can't help. Players who dislike members of the group. Without time a group cannot development and with high expectations from fans the group faces massive pressure to perform on and off the field. The longer this goes on and financial implications become greater the worse it will get. Good post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keefaz Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Are we now in the crossover Storming/Norming phase or what I often like to call 'the Schwarzkopf'? http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9909/180pxnormanschwarzkopfyq8.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazy Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 These threads Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbo_11 Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Are we now in the crossover Storming/Norming phase or what I often like to call 'the Schwarzkopf'? http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9909/180pxnormanschwarzkopfyq8.jpg We are imo. Although we could quite easily remain in the storming phase if results remain poor and the pressure builds up on Sam Allardyce. He has already had a slight dig at the players and we will have to wait and see how the players respond against the next opposition. It also got me thinking that under Roeder we had a strong team rapport because of the situation the players found themselves in. Youngsters like Edgar and Huntington thrown in against Man United out of position with Sibierski leading the line and we had a respected captain. It was almost backs to the wall for a lot of games and this brought the best out of the players available (Palermo away). When Roeder actually had to make a decision he often chose the wrong one (tactics against AZ Alkmaar away and Man United away). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keefaz Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Well, if what you say is true, it would seem to be an obvious strategy for Allardyce to adopt would be the creation of a siege mentality. This 'us against the world' outlook might be enough to save his bacon for long enough for the rest of the meisterplan to kick in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbo_11 Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Well, if what you say is true, it would seem to be an obvious strategy for Allardyce to adopt would be the creation of a siege mentality. This 'us against the world' outlook might be enough to save his bacon for long enough for the rest of the meisterplan to kick in. I would hope so, whether some players a psychologically capable of being able to handle the pressure is another thing. With Allardyce putting pressure on the players after the Wigan game you would expect a positive response, but it will depend on how they take this deserved criticism. Preparation will have to be similar to the Arsenal game, but after a few games it would lose effect. Hopefully by then the team would be in the norming stage and winning matches. If Barton was to criticise the fans before every game to try and get a reaction like Blackburn away it would end up with the fans turning on him and having the opposite effect with regards atmosphere. There was a positive response from fans for a few games because of the positive response by players after Liverpool. This has slipped in recent games and it is up to players to improve this again with a performance. I think if a manager takes all the pressure like Roeder did towards the end of the reign, it has a negative effect as the players don't respond as much. The mentality of "Oh well its not my job that will be lost". When Given and Harper had to release a statement the players were involved and therefore needed a performance to show all was fine under Allardyce. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaehyun Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 New manager, assimilation time This + impatient fans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Immigrants. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom_NUFC Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Poor tactics and players out of position = Allardyce Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keefaz Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 The moon's in Uranus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ericz Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 First: Some players are bigger than the team Some of the players seem to be bigger than the team. They lack professionalism. If they don't like the system, have a chat with the manager, if it fails, ask for a transfer. Never do things behind the manager's back etc. It seems like what a hypocrite will do. Secondly: Some fans are too impatient Some of the fans are too immature and impatient. Calmness and politeness goes a long way. One can be disappointed at certain results but objectivity has to be maintained. The bigger picture needs to be looked at. How long has the manager been appointed? What standard are our players of? What is their attitude like? Factors like these have to be considered in light of the situation before the whole case can be presented. If the fans who frequently criticise the manager are really that good, why aren't they the manager? *lol* That says lots to me... It means they just know how to talk. Be there, understand their position and maybe those skeptics will have a better picture.. maybe they will even collapse at the initial pressure lol.. (or maybe there are some Sunderland fans here pretending to be Newcastle fans ) That's what I've gathered when I read some of the posts in this forum... ~Cheers, Ericz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gray Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 i blame the fans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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