Isn't it about time we had an argument about THE BOARD?!?!?!?!?!

[NE5]

Are you suggesting we never had a single disappointing transfer window/summer under the old lot?

 

not suggesting anything Dave. I find the hypocrisy of standards - which boils down completely to personalities - quite amazing.

 

Simple fact is that I've seen this before. Unambitious board who aren't prepared to compete with the winning clubs but attempt to pacify fans with talk of "youth systems", "the future plans"....blah blah, other such bollocks.

 

Simple fact also is that you need players the top teams want if you want to challenge them, never mind beat them. Particularly incredible is the fact that Keegan showed everybody this the first time round. I don't think Mort has the slightest clue about football and how it works. They / he [interesting one this, will it be Ashleys fault as major shareholder or Morts as chairman if Keegan fucks off or fails] will have to catch on quickly or Keegan will put them under pressure or bugger off. Quite right too if he does under those circumstances.

 

I simply don't buy the people who are now supporting this deluded "kids policy" instead of spending money, when all we heard every other week under the old board was "splash the cash you greedy fat b******"

 

Amazing.

 

The sooner we are back in europe the better. And if Ashley and Mort don't realise this, for me they can both bugger off.

 

 

 

Right. I think it's now plainly obvious that your agenda is merely to attack the new board regardless. When you say things like "people are supporting the kids policy INSTEAD of buying big players" etc....

 

That's a load of bollocks LM and you know it. People are saying that it will do us no harm to try and uncover a few gems in the process, until we are able to attract the Berbatovs of this world!! No one is saying the board to should aim to produce an entire first team from youth talent!!! But if one or two turn out to be useful, then why not?

 

Amazing

 

Shame, but I think for a long time the agenda of numerous people was simply to attack the old board whatever they did regardless. And still is, in fact.

 

Buying up the best kids and ignoring the present is nothing other than taking a punt at gaining success on the cheap, and doesn't bode well I'm afraid.

 

I've tried to tell you it doesn't work, because it hasn't in the past at pretty much any other club plus common sense tells you it isn't so simple as this - so if you think differently, then of course thats your opinion. I look forward to seeing your u-turn.

 

 

 

Do you mean when we tried it with Bassedas, Cort, Bramble etc...?

 

You could look at Craig Bellamy and Laurent Robert if you like, but it wouldn't suit your "opinion" would it.

 

As you are unable to distinguish the difference between the board backing their managers, and where it becomes the managers responsibility to make good judgements rather than poor ones [bobby Robson too] there is really no point in attempting to explain this to you.

 

 

[NE5]

ne5

Because Keegan has taken over, I want to believe it.

 

Mort is a very conservative bean counter, he doesn't appear to understand much about football. Pretty much everything he has said seems to indicate that the club don't understand that in football you need to speculate and take risks.

 

So, if you have wanted the club run like " a business" and/or are happy with real mediocrity and a board who are also happy with it, you may be about to get your wish.

if mort is a bean counter how is he going to make money back ashleys initial £250mill investment ?

 

 

 

how much further do you think shepherds  "speculation and risks" would ave taken us ?

 

I don't know. Maybe you could level the same question at the owners of Liverpool, Manu and Chelsea, and ask how they feel about their clubs being massively in debt ?

 

 

[johnnypd]

I'm pretty much cocerned that this Italian guy would like English foods. 

 

newcastle's probably got more italian restaurants than bergamo tbh.

[NE5]

what is the problem with singing young players for the future? didn't you say that N'Zogbia was the most talented player at our club a couple of days ago? and he was signed this way.

 

if we can bring in promising talents and hopefully develop them along then i don't see the problem. it is low-risk and every so often this policy will yield good results. as long as it is pursued alongside first-team transfers i dont see any negatives. and i think bringing in the technical directors ensures that the two recruitment policies exist side by side.

 

Good post.

 

It seems people are envious of Wenger's achievements at Arsenal yet don't want to see the same set up implemented here. Strange.

 

Iz becoz we canna parayde dem lyek. If dey not heard of dem den they must be s*** innit?!

 

 

seems like deja vue here. Under Souness we were told that it was fine to clear out the bad eggs because Alex Ferguson did, now we are being told its OK buying a load of 17 year olds because Arsene Wenger has.

 

Quite incredible the complete rubbish that people get suckered into believing, and all because the fat b****** ate all their pies or something.........

 

Not to mention, that Bobby Robson has been down the same path and didn't match Wenger ie Bramble, Ambrose, Viana, Gavilan,

Cort, Cordone, Jeanarse, Lua Lua, Bassedas, O'Brien.............. his best buys for the club being Woodgate, Bellamy and Robert by a country mile.

 

 

 

a big pile right there...and desperation to attack the new regime and defend Shepherd. Blatantly as well.

 

FYI: Bramble, Ambrose, Bassedas, Cordone, Cort, O'Brien, LuaLua and Viana were not obscure 16/17 yr olds when they were signed. The only youth signings that Sir Bobby made were Gavilan, Bernard and N'Zogbia, and I'll add Jenas to that list to an extent.

 

Bramble was a premiership player who finished 3rd with Ipswich.

Bassedas was already a full Argentina international when he joined (and was 25?)

LuaLua was acquired for over 2 million pounds, and was an established player in the first team of a lower division side

Cort...we paid 7 million on him as he was also a premiership player at Wimbeldon

O'Brien was a first teamer at Bradford (not sure if he played premiership football before they went down)

Viana was young european player of the year

Cordone was an unknown, but he wasn't a 17 yr old nobody

 

If I'm not mistaken, bar Cordone (who joined on loan), the rest all cost AT LEAST a million pounds if not more. Jenas cost 5!!!

 

What the board are doing now is plucking youth players to develop them here as part of the youth academy/reserve team. The players you mention ALL went into the first team squad.

 

Still think you know your stuff LM...just think your argument here is a tad bit desperate and illogical. No one here is saying we don't need big players. We do. But in the meantime, if we cant get them for whatever reason, we might as well play our hand at grabbing whatever young talent we can from all over the shop, and take a chance.

 

Haven't read the rest of the thread, so I don't know what else has been said. I'll crack on now and try and catch up

 

 

interesting you talk about a big pile of s****.

 

Because from where I'm sitting, the condemnation of a board who backed their managers and qualified for europe more than anyone else at any time in our history, more than any other team in the country bar 4, bought major international players instead of selling them, sold out the ground to 50000 people [who were actually attracted by something despite what you may "think"] is the biggest heap of absolute biggest s**** I've ever read.

 

I am very pleased for you if you are happy with the ambition ie the transfer policy of the current board as against the old one. Because, you shouldn't be. Its been absolutely abysmal, and 2nd rate. End of.

 

 

 

But that's not the point LM!!! What I'm saying is, if in the meantime we can't get those big players to come, what's the harm in bringing some promising prospects in parallel?

 

Also, keep in mind that at the time you speak of, NUFC was a fashionable club, as you correctly point out qualifying for europe etc... We're a different proposition now, and are a club in turmoil. Until we steady the ship and have a clear path forward, imo we'll never attract big hungry players. We'll only be able to bring in mercenaries who've already done it all, living off of reputation and looking for one last pay day.

 

I don't accept or believe we can't get the best players to come. I think any player worth their salt would want to play here. Our european standing and profile is also massively and totally superior in comparison to what it was, through qualifying regularly for europe, especially since 1992 when the old board finally took over and put the club on the right lines again.

 

The judgement of a players character is down to the manager when he talks to him etc

 

 

ne5 your first 3 words sum it up.

 

 

as for getting the best players,always unlkey in the jan window (though to improve should be able to)

 

oureuro standing etc mean nothing now.

 

the one thing we have is spending power...if it is real and flexed come the sumer. convince one big money and the rest will follow if we want to spend.

 

 

will it happen ?

 

Because Keegan has taken over, I want to believe it.

 

Mort is a very conservative bean counter, he doesn't appear to understand much about football. Pretty much everything he has said seems to indicate that the club don't understand that in football you need to speculate and take risks.

 

So, if you have wanted the club run like " a business" and/or are happy with real mediocrity and a board who are also happy with it, you may be about to get your wish.

 

 

 

 

Right.....so signing youth team players from all around the world doesn't represent taking risks.....but "backing the manager" by signing the likes of Owen, Boumsong and Luque does?

 

You're contradicting yourself mate

 

I'm happy for you that you think spending 34m quid isn't a bigger risk than next to nowt on a 17 year old.

 

Apart from the risk of being relegated, that is.

 

I'm not contradicting myself at all, you're just blind to what you don't want to believe until it hits you in the face, and even then will probably not see it. You will change your tune if we continue sliding down the table.

 

 

[NE5]

It's interesting that the club is getting slated by some for not spending yet we had a reported £7 million bid accepted for Woodgate.

 

Woodgate was the only player to move this window who would of been completely suitable for us and we bid for him. There is absolutley no argument to be had here.

 

Lets put that into some context, thats 1 signing in 31 days days who would be suitable.

 

Wheres the lack of ambition in that?

 

the 2 stooges together. Trying to tell us that the club show ambition by failing to sign a player  mackems.gif

 

Fantastic. I haven't seen such rubbish, believed by people too, since the McKeag and Westwood days.

 

 

[Dave]

Will you change yours if we climb it?

 

Fact is we're in this position because of the manager you wanted. He couldn't hack it. You're just using our crap position to jump on a board that's been in place less than a year.

[NE5]

Lets face it, we are not in any competitions now, it is also unlikely we can claim a European spot either.  Put all that together for one and its no suprise no one came in, especially with two weeks to go.

 

What is the point of signing people for the sake of signing them just to keep the fans happy?   We have enough class in our squad, to get us through to the end of the season now.  Keegan, providing he can get some results on the board fast, will then, along with the team and club be playing for pride.

 

I personally think we have done the right thing.  Spend a few months assessing things and then splash the big money in the summer.

 

Panic buys and trophy buys are Freddy Sheppard through and through, thankfully those days have gone.

 

keep it up you're a scream. Please tell us who these "trophy signings" are, and why we are better off with a team playing the way we have this season and the strength of the first team squad.

 

Somehow, I don't think quite straightforward question will get a half decent reply .............

 

 

[NE5]

I'm confused how some people think we haven't got the 'trophy' signings because we aren't attractive enough yet.  Exactly how will we become attractive by just buying kids and bargain basement buys .  I take it people seem to think that we will suddenly become more attractive in the summer for some bizarre reason? 

 

nail on the head.

 

If it wasn't so sad, I could weep

 

 

[Shearergol]

I'm confused how some people think we haven't got the 'trophy' signings because we aren't attractive enough yet.  Exactly how will we become attractive by just buying kids and bargain basement buys .  I take it people seem to think that we will suddenly become more attractive in the summer for some bizarre reason? 

 

nail on the head.

 

If it wasn't so sad, I could weep

 

I find it hard to believe that people on here don't actually agree with that fact; they just don't like to admit it.

[Dave]

The attractive thing is a load of bollocks. Players come for the money, and that's pretty much it.

 

Still doesn't change the fact that Keegan obviously couldn't get the level of upgrades he wanted, for whatever reason.

[Shearergol]

I'm confused how some people think we haven't got the 'trophy' signings because we aren't attractive enough yet.  Exactly how will we become attractive by just buying kids and bargain basement buys .  I take it people seem to think that we will suddenly become more attractive in the summer for some bizarre reason? 

 

nail on the head.

 

If it wasn't so sad, I could weep

 

I find it hard to believe that people on here don't actually agree with that fact; they just don't like to admit it.

 

I don't think our lack of signings are anything to do with not being attractive enough. They're to do with there not being enough players AVAILABLE.

 

 

 

Vicious circle I'm afraid. If we were able to attract them, they're more likely to be available. Do you actually know that clubs turned us down rather than it being the players? What inside information did you have about the players we enquired about?

[Shearergol]

The attractive thing is a load of bollocks. Players come for the money, and that's pretty much it.

 

Still doesn't change the fact that Keegan obviously couldn't get the level of upgrades he wanted, for whatever reason.

 

Sorry, but that's rubbish. Obviously money is a massive factor, but if a player sees a struggling club heading the wrong way in the division, they're more than likely going to turn the move down.

 

Players want to play in Europe, or get first team football. Our best bet is to find the players from the top clubs who can't get games. However; Spurs, Portsmouth, Villa, Man City and Everton are all better prospects than us at the moment, despite the wages we're able to offer. (having said that, the low bid for Barnes shows me that we're more likely to keep a closer check on the budget now, so we might not be offering big wages anymore either).

[Dave]

Opposite question to you tbh.

[Dave]

The previous post.

[Shearergol]

Opposite question to you tbh.

 

We bid for Woodgate. He turned it down. I see no evidence whatsoever for a player we've enquired about and got told "no" by the club, have you?

[Dave]

The attractive thing is a load of bollocks. Players come for the money, and that's pretty much it.

 

Still doesn't change the fact that Keegan obviously couldn't get the level of upgrades he wanted, for whatever reason.

 

Sorry, but that's rubbish. Obviously money is a massive factor, but if a player sees a struggling club heading the wrong way in the division, they're more than likely going to turn the move down.

 

Players want to play in Europe, or get first team football. Our best bet is to find the players from the top clubs who can't get games. However; Spurs, Portsmouth, Villa, Man City and Everton are all better prospects than us at the moment, despite the wages we're able to offer. (having said that, the low bid for Barnes shows me that we're more likely to keep a closer check on the budget now, so we might not be offering big wages anymore either).

 

How did Boro attract Alves? Or any of their players for that matter.

 

Those clubs are in better shape than us because of Allardyce (and their respective managers), not the board IMO.

[NE5]

Will you change yours if we climb it?

 

Fact is we're in this position because of the manager you wanted. He couldn't hack it. You're just using our crap position to jump on a board that's been in place less than a year.

 

not in the slightest. I believe in Keegan. However, he has NO chance if they don't back him. That is what I've always said. I have seen supporters getting fobbed off before - for years - by talk of buying great youngsters and cheap bargains while the clubs with true ambition aim for success today.

 

Nobody will tell me that Keegan is happy not to have signed anybody, this is total bollocks. Difference between me and some others Dave, is I don't change my tune depending on the personalities, because you know - and you do know but won't admit it - that is the single issue that stands between everyone admitting that they know I am right.

 

If we don't compete with the other big clubs we will continue to go downwards, fast. The clubs transfer policy is and has been utter shite, so far.

 

How many people said how happy they were at last summers dealings ? What are they saying now ? Some of us, and I will say this so I'm not accused of "point scoring", there were others, had their eyes open and it wasn't that difficult to see.

 

I have said somewhere else that if they really do have ambition, then they are going to have to show it and learn quickly. If they have lied to Keegan and he comes out with the "not like it was in the brochure" speech that he directed at John Hall, then this time he won't come back.

 

And rightly so too, from his point of view.

 

 

[Dave]

Opposite question to you tbh.

 

We bid for Woodgate. He turned it down. I see no evidence whatsoever for a player we've enquired about and got told "no" by the club, have you?

 

You questioned someone's inside information in order to refute their argument. Unless you have some of your own I can't see the value in that.

[Shearergol]

The attractive thing is a load of bollocks. Players come for the money, and that's pretty much it.

 

Still doesn't change the fact that Keegan obviously couldn't get the level of upgrades he wanted, for whatever reason.

 

Sorry, but that's rubbish. Obviously money is a massive factor, but if a player sees a struggling club heading the wrong way in the division, they're more than likely going to turn the move down.

 

Players want to play in Europe, or get first team football. Our best bet is to find the players from the top clubs who can't get games. However; Spurs, Portsmouth, Villa, Man City and Everton are all better prospects than us at the moment, despite the wages we're able to offer. (having said that, the low bid for Barnes shows me that we're more likely to keep a closer check on the budget now, so we might not be offering big wages anymore either).

 

How did Boro attract Alves? Or any of their players for that matter.

 

Those clubs are in better shape than us because of Allardyce (and their respective managers), not the board IMO.

 

Did we even try for Alves?

 

My personal opinion (which I made clear the day we appointed Keegan) is that we've signed nobody because of the timing of his appointment. Whoever is to blame (this board, the old board, Keegan, Allardyce) I really think we've made a huge huge mistake by not signing some quality (especially to play in midfield). I know people laugh when relegation is mentioned, but it really looks a bit ominous on current form.

[Shearergol]

Opposite question to you tbh.

 

We bid for Woodgate. He turned it down. I see no evidence whatsoever for a player we've enquired about and got told "no" by the club, have you?

 

You questioned someone's inside information in order to refute their argument. Unless you have some of your own I can't see the value in that.

 

And then I showed evidence of a player turning us down rather than it being the club. Isn't that what you asked me to do?

[Dave]

Opposite question to you tbh.

 

We bid for Woodgate. He turned it down. I see no evidence whatsoever for a player we've enquired about and got told "no" by the club, have you?

 

You questioned someone's inside information in order to refute their argument. Unless you have some of your own I can't see the value in that.

 

And then I showed evidence of a player turning us down rather than it being the club. Isn't that what you asked me to do?

 

Sorry, I was specifically meaning the 'do you know who we enquired about?' bit.

[NE5]

The attractive thing is a load of bollocks. Players come for the money, and that's pretty much it.

 

Still doesn't change the fact that Keegan obviously couldn't get the level of upgrades he wanted, for whatever reason.

 

Sorry, but that's rubbish. Obviously money is a massive factor, but if a player sees a struggling club heading the wrong way in the division, they're more than likely going to turn the move down.

 

Players want to play in Europe, or get first team football. Our best bet is to find the players from the top clubs who can't get games. However; Spurs, Portsmouth, Villa, Man City and Everton are all better prospects than us at the moment, despite the wages we're able to offer. (having said that, the low bid for Barnes shows me that we're more likely to keep a closer check on the budget now, so we might not be offering big wages anymore either).

 

meaning we will lose out on quality players. End of. So much for "running a club like a business". Great eh.

 

 

 

[Dave]

The attractive thing is a load of bollocks. Players come for the money, and that's pretty much it.

 

Still doesn't change the fact that Keegan obviously couldn't get the level of upgrades he wanted, for whatever reason.

 

Sorry, but that's rubbish. Obviously money is a massive factor, but if a player sees a struggling club heading the wrong way in the division, they're more than likely going to turn the move down.

 

Players want to play in Europe, or get first team football. Our best bet is to find the players from the top clubs who can't get games. However; Spurs, Portsmouth, Villa, Man City and Everton are all better prospects than us at the moment, despite the wages we're able to offer. (having said that, the low bid for Barnes shows me that we're more likely to keep a closer check on the budget now, so we might not be offering big wages anymore either).

 

How did Boro attract Alves? Or any of their players for that matter.

 

Those clubs are in better shape than us because of Allardyce (and their respective managers), not the board IMO.

 

Did we even try for Alves?

 

My personal opinion (which I made clear the day we appointed Keegan) is that we've signed nobody because of the timing of his appointment. Whoever is to blame (this board, the old board, Keegan, Allardyce) I really think we've made a huge huge mistake by not signing some quality (especially to play in midfield). I know people laugh when relegation is mentioned, but it really looks a bit ominous on current form.

 

I've said similar before myself; I agree with you about the timing of the managerial change. And I agree it's a mistake not to improve the midfield, just not the degree of linking it to a relegation battle. Or in NE5's case, linking it to some overall lack of ambition by the board and as an excuse to slate them. The recovery mission was always going to be difficult for Keegan, but I think we'll be reasonably comfortable this season.

 

Ashley has to show me what he's all about in the summer.

[Shearergol]

Opposite question to you tbh.

 

We bid for Woodgate. He turned it down. I see no evidence whatsoever for a player we've enquired about and got told "no" by the club, have you?

 

You questioned someone's inside information in order to refute their argument. Unless you have some of your own I can't see the value in that.

 

And then I showed evidence of a player turning us down rather than it being the club. Isn't that what you asked me to do?

 

Sorry, I was specifically meaning the 'do you know who we enquired about?' bit.

 

I could answer it myself by mentioning Barnes, but that would add to the argument that the club isn't showing ambition by spending money on player who can improve the team

[Shearergol]

I'm confused how some people think we haven't got the 'trophy' signings because we aren't attractive enough yet.  Exactly how will we become attractive by just buying kids and bargain basement buys .  I take it people seem to think that we will suddenly become more attractive in the summer for some bizarre reason? 

 

nail on the head.

 

If it wasn't so sad, I could weep

 

I find it hard to believe that people on here don't actually agree with that fact; they just don't like to admit it.

 

I don't think our lack of signings are anything to do with not being attractive enough. They're to do with there not being enough players AVAILABLE.

 

 

 

Vicious circle I'm afraid. If we were able to attract them, they're more likely to be available. Do you actually know that clubs turned us down rather than it being the players? What inside information did you have about the players we enquired about?

 

Well if you read Jewells qoutes, YES, they turned our offer down. If you read the qoutes from the Brno guy about Kalouda, and the Brno fans, their CLUB didn't feel like there was enough time to push through a transfer, and they didn't want to let him go out on trial first for a few days.

 

My post above answers the bit about Barnes, and does indeed show a lack of ambition from the club.

 

As for the Kalouda part; are we relying on ITK information?