Obafami Martins

[Guest optimistic nit]

When he was subbed he ran off the pitch faster than he'd run all game.

 

Too early to write the lad off, but he's not shown me any promise of his potential so far.

 

 

faster than he had ran all game?

 

he was fucking lightning all game. never seen anything like it, and he has great stregnth and teqnique. not pleased with his composure in front of goal, but it should improve.

 

 

i see what crumpy means, with that chance he really should have done better at, but its too early to write off his striking prowess atm.

 

We obviously have different definitions of "lightning." I'm not sure we can judge his technique yet, thanks to his early-shola style first touch today we didn't get a chance to see it.

 

 

my definition of lightning is getting onto your own through ball. you need more than quick leggs to to that as well, you need a quick mind. no hesitation unlike lescott after he'd passed, we was straight onto it.

 

Erm... You mean when he played a ball somewhere where there was nobody whatsoever, no toon players, no defenders, no one running on, then jogged over to pick it up again because there was no-one there to challenge him?

 

I thought the lad was a waste of space today, Sibierski outshone him and he's 4 years older!

 

Bluestar don;t make yourself look like a pratt. (sibi only 25btw???)

 

 

Sigh, it was a joke about the 21/28 thing mate.

 

sibi made one great touch to set up parker, but apart from that was terrible. good stregth, but oba has that as well. his first touch was terrible, it looked like he was playing pinball. no attempt at a bring down just deflect it with his heel.

 

Sorry, I though Sibi looked more positive for us, but he certainly wasn't brilliant.  If Martins is strong he needs to show it rather than going to ground so often and looking for a free kick.  I've yet to find anyone in real life who thinks he had a good game yesterday.  the bloke behind me made the quip about Martins running off the feild faster than he'd gone all game, the bloke next to me said "I was about to say that"  Met my mates after the match and one of them pointed it out, the other guy said "Aye, that's what they said around me as well."

 

I'm not writing the guy off, but people pretending he's shown us an indication of what he can do are kidding themselves.  How much of a stretch is it to claim that by having to go across the pitch and pick up his own misplaced pass that he was "So fast he could run onto his own through ball"?

 

oba passed it to nobody because of a missunderstanding. whoever it was wanted a through ball and he passed to feet. not too unreasonable is it? i didn't think he was going to score today, i admit it, but in my opinion it was just not going for him. i did think however, that had we had even a semi competant striker partnering oba we would have won comfortably. even the best go through baron spells, but i reckon with a bit of help he could have created mountains of space for another striker. or got a couple of assists.

 

Maybe we can get this Baron Spells character to work some magic and make him show a glimmer of the player he's supposed to be.

 

 

can i ask a question? (well another question ) why are you so determined to see oba fail?

 

Sorry mate, don't talk such utter shite.  I went down to Villa singing the lads name in the car, in the pub and while he was warming up.  I want him to succeed and I was very happy when we signed him.  but that doesn't mean I'm going to pretend he's incredible when he's had one half decent game against West Ham and he's not shown the supposed lightening pace he's got, performed woefully in front of goal and failed to play to his strengths so far.

 

Why did you want Souness to fail, etc, etc  :roll:

its the same with every player we've brought into the club. if all the players we have now played to their form prior to joining us we'd probably win the league, or finish second behind chelsea. they can't all just "not cut it in the premiership", he's the same player that tore arsenal apart in the CL when he was 18, yet now he's 10million worth of shite?

 

I've never said he's shite.  i've said he's not played well so far and I don't see why it should be mandatory to pretend he has.

 

 

i really can't be bothered with this shit any more. for a start that ran faster off than he did all game thing is bollux. i dont care if every single one of the 50,000 toon fans thought that was true, and everybody who watched the game on the tv as well. The last bit wasn't about you btw its andy pimpkins £10 million worth of shite comment.

 

I'm not pretending he's incredible, and i'm admitting he didn;t have his shooting boots on yesterday, but it really annoys me when without fail every time i go onto this board following a players debut and the player didn't run round the whole pitch, score a hattrick and set up four more there are  posters calling for his head already.

 

for the record i did get the 21-28 joke, but to be honest it was so poor i thought "nah he's not going for it"

 

most of my gripe is not with you to be fair, but i take issue with you repeating that he's supposedly not shown this lighting pace. what about the west ham goal? he must have picked up the ball about 25 yards from our goal and in no time at all he was putting duff through for him to score. .

 

 

i've never said that he's a terrific buy, or that he's incredible, but i think that he has been criticised more than he deserves, and he's no donkey at any rate.

 

i'm past the point here where i'm going to debate this any longer. maybe i am wrong and he has shown no sign of being anything more than an averagely paced fellow, maybe he is just a failed sprinter, maybe he goes down to easily and maybe he is a soft shite.

(shit you've made me miss the first 10 minutes of spooks )

 

[BlueStar]

He's shown the odd bit of pace, when he's not looked scared to run at defenders at least, but nothing like the Bellamy or even Owen style player some are claiming he's already proving to be.

 

Obviously running of the pitch faster is a bit of a joke, partially because I've very rarely seen players peg it off the pitch when they've been subbed as if they've been dying to jump in the bath with Titus, but it reflects genuine concerns about it - especially because if he has that pace, at the moment, like early Bellamy, he's going to need to use it to make up for his lack of compsure in front of goal.

[Guest optimistic nit]

to be honest if i didn't know better martins was saying "look i'm not tired and its now 10 aside, i could really do some damage in the final 10.

 

makes you wounder why roeder would take martins off if he obviously isn't struggling and pace is the one attribute that could be really important in a 10 aside game that is already more open than the average game. I think Oba and Rossi up front in the final 10 could have nicked it.

[ChezGiven]

He's shown the odd bit of pace, when he's not looked scared to run at defenders at least, but nothing like the Bellamy or even Owen style player some are claiming he's already proving to be.

 

Obviously running of the pitch faster is a bit of a joke, partially because I've very rarely seen players peg it off the pitch when they've been subbed as if they've been dying to jump in the bath with Titus, but it reflects genuine concerns about it - especially because if he has that pace, at the moment, like early Bellamy, he's going to need to use it to make up for his lack of compsure in front of goal.

 

Not disagreeing with you but Bellamy also had that lack of composure until 2 seasons ago.

[Geordie Boot Boy]

I like what I've seen of him so far.  No one actually thought we were buying the finished article did they?

 

For £10 Million? bluesigh.gif

 

We overpaid.  Not because he is not good enough but because Inter have an abundance of top class strikers at the moment.  Losing Martins was never going to hurt them too much.

 

Even so, I am happy with what I have seen of him so far.  I'd like to see the goalscoring burden taken off his shoulders though.  I don't think it's right to bung a 21 year old kid in a new team and say "Right, bang them in then, we've got £10 million invested in you".  He should be working with a good experienced goalscorer.  Owen would be ideal IMHO.  I know people think it wouldn't work but I think that it could.  It's just a real pity that he is probably out for the rest of the season.

[BlueStar]

Yeah, it was only near the end of his time with us Bellamy sorted it out a bit.  He mostly made up for it by minging it along so fast so he ended up in a position that not even he could miss (or at least not miss all the time anyway )

[ChezGiven]

Yeah, it was only near the end of his time with us Bellamy sorted it out a bit.  He mostly made up for it by minging it along so fast so he ended up in a position that not even he could miss (or at least not miss all the time anyway )

 

Which i hope to see Martins doing too. Got to be fair on him because of his age more than anything for me, its rare to get a consistent yourngster. Even rooney looks a bit out of sorts at the moment. I've only seen him once properly and that was his best game of the season so maybe my view is a bit clouded but hes got potential like Bellamy had.

 

I also thought the Sibierski gag was funny. 

[Tisd09]

He's shown the odd bit of pace, when he's not looked scared to run at defenders at least, but nothing like the Bellamy or even Owen style player some are claiming he's already proving to be.

 

Obviously running of the pitch faster is a bit of a joke, partially because I've very rarely seen players peg it off the pitch when they've been subbed as if they've been dying to jump in the bath with Titus, but it reflects genuine concerns about it - especially because if he has that pace, at the moment, like early Bellamy, he's going to need to use it to make up for his lack of compsure in front of goal.

 

Not disagreeing with you but Bellamy also had that lack of composure until 2 seasons ago.

 

His composure has been top class recently hasn't it.

 

Bellamy is a quality player, but I think we have over hyped him after that episode with Souness, if we didn't hate Souness as much we wouldn't be nearly as big Bellamy fans as we are now.

 

Anyway, we can't completley judge Martins on what he has done so far. IMO he has done okay, he had a bit of a mare in the box on Sunday but not too many excelled themselves from 18 yards out did they.

 

He was always going to have a big weight on his shoulders, but he has played in some big matches before and I am sure he can handle the pressure. I think he will gain a lot more confidence once he gets his first goal at St James. Its going to be a tough old season, especially with our defence. We will be lucky to hit Europe again this season I think the will be so many ups and downs.

[Guest Knightrider]

I can't believe people are saying his movement is poor or comparing his mobility to that of Shearer's over the past 2 years. Were you watching the same game as me?

 

How often did we see Shearer down both flanks? Not a lot over the past two years. Martins covered the forward areas well and his direct movement enabled both Milner and Parker to escape their markers at least 3 times that I counted down the right. Down the left he linked up well with N'Zogbia and Emre and again, his movement created space for them too

 

And what about his early chance when he checked and then got in front of his marker, just failing to flick the ball goalwards at the near post? Was that not good movement?

 

His movement is fine and he caused their defence all kinds of problems because of it, which from our point of view is very good given just how one-paced and one-dimensional we have been up front since, well, since Bellamy left who let me remind everyone was no great shakes himself when he first joined the club, in fact he was quite average and only in the final 15th months did we see a huge improvement in Bellamy.

 

Martins is 21 and new to our club, this league, this way of playing the game. I think in the few games he's played he has shown an appetite and a degree of quality in certain moments and areas that suggest he can be a hit in this league, if not a bit unpredictable. But that is what we've been crying out for the last few years, no? Some dynamism, some spark up front.

 

I like what I see, very raw and needs to improve his control, composure and he needs to shield the ball better as well but he has quick feet, a good spring on him, he's quite strong and he works the forward areas well. For a 21 year-old he's a decent player and he can't help it that he cost 10m or that the man or men he is trying to replace happen to be two of the best forward's of their generation, Shearer and Owen which I think some people are trying to judge him by or on which is just plain stupid.

 

I'd like to see him get better service myself and some support up to him. Despite his pace which I think he showed just how much he has yesterday by racing onto his own pass despite the defender being a yard to the ball to his 3-4 yards, we didn't use that pace of his very well if at all. The one time he looked like he was away was due to a lapse in concentration by his marker rather than a great ball and of course he fluffed his lines anyway.

 

Reading various websites it seems he was either shit or great, as ever the truth is in the middle somewhere. He was decent at times, gash at others. No different to anyone else on the pitch, at both ends. With the exception of Parker who was once again outstanding.

 

Lastly, I think people expect far too much these days, they expect players to be precise with every ball, to put away every chance, to never get knocked off the ball and whenever a player doesn't do this people see this as signs to worry. The game isn't like that and nor are footballers. Those that are like that are great teams and great players. Lets not forget we are an average team and Martins is by no means a great player, and he never will be for us if we start nitpicking at every aspect of his game and expecting the world from him.

[Guest Gemmill]

I can't believe people are saying his movement is poor or comparing his mobility to that of Shearer's over the past 2 years. Were you watching the same game as me?

 

How often did we see Shearer down both flanks? Not a lot over the past two years. Martins covered the forward areas well and his direct movement enabled both Milner and Parker to escape their markers at least 3 times that I counted down the right. Down the left he linked up well with N'Zogbia and Emre and again, his movement created space for them too

 

And what about his early chance when he checked and then got in front of his marker, just failing to flick the ball goalwards at the near post? Was that not good movement?

 

His movement is fine and he caused their defence all kinds of problems because of it, which from our point of view is very good given just how one-paced and one-dimensional we have been up front since, well, since Bellamy left who let me remind everyone was no great shakes himself when he first joined the club, in fact he was quite average and only in the final 15th months did we see a huge improvement in Bellamy.

 

I always knew you talked shit and basically just spouted football cliches (has a good spring on him, works the forward areas well, very raw) wrapped up in overly long posts, and all this post has done is confirmed it further.  You honestly don't have a clue what you're talking about.  His movement was pretty much non-existent and needs to improve VASTLY if he is going to make it in the Premiership.  He caused their defence all kinds of problems???  Did he??  Did he fuck.

 

I especially like the bit at the end of your post where you bemoan the modern football fan as someone that wants to see instant results - which by the way is not what the majority are saying - when you probably didn't bother going cos it was on the telly.  Now THAT is the problem with the modern football fan - especially the know it all ones that talk in Match of the Day cliches when they haven't got a clue what they're on about. 

 

Did you go to the game btw, Mr. Newcastle United, of was it easier just to watch this one on telly?   Definitely easier to keep an eye on a player's off the ball movement if you're actually there btw. 

[Slugsy]

I can't believe people are saying his movement is poor or comparing his mobility to that of Shearer's over the past 2 years. Were you watching the same game as me?

 

How often did we see Shearer down both flanks? Not a lot over the past two years. Martins covered the forward areas well and his direct movement enabled both Milner and Parker to escape their markers at least 3 times that I counted down the right. Down the left he linked up well with N'Zogbia and Emre and again, his movement created space for them too

 

And what about his early chance when he checked and then got in front of his marker, just failing to flick the ball goalwards at the near post? Was that not good movement?

 

His movement is fine and he caused their defence all kinds of problems because of it, which from our point of view is very good given just how one-paced and one-dimensional we have been up front since, well, since Bellamy left who let me remind everyone was no great shakes himself when he first joined the club, in fact he was quite average and only in the final 15th months did we see a huge improvement in Bellamy.

 

I always knew you talked shit and basically just spouted football cliches (has a good spring on him, works the forward areas well, very raw) wrapped up in overly long posts, and all this post has done is confirmed it further. You honestly don't have a clue what you're talking about. His movement was pretty much non-existent and needs to improve VASTLY if he is going to make it in the Premiership. He caused their defence all kinds of problems??? Did he?? Did he ****.

 

I especially like the bit at the end of your post where you bemoan the modern football fan as someone that wants to see instant results - which by the way is not what the majority are saying - when you probably didn't bother going cos it was on the telly. Now THAT is the problem with the modern football fan - especially the know it all ones that talk in Match of the Day cliches when they haven't got a clue what they're on about.

 

Did you go to the game btw, Mr. Newcastle United, of was it easier just to watch this one on telly? Definitely easier to keep an eye on a player's off the ball movement if you're actually there btw.

 

Spot on.

 

 

[Nobody]

I can't believe people are saying his movement is poor or comparing his mobility to that of Shearer's over the past 2 years. Were you watching the same game as me?

 

How often did we see Shearer down both flanks? Not a lot over the past two years. Martins covered the forward areas well and his direct movement enabled both Milner and Parker to escape their markers at least 3 times that I counted down the right. Down the left he linked up well with N'Zogbia and Emre and again, his movement created space for them too

 

And what about his early chance when he checked and then got in front of his marker, just failing to flick the ball goalwards at the near post? Was that not good movement?

 

His movement is fine and he caused their defence all kinds of problems because of it, which from our point of view is very good given just how one-paced and one-dimensional we have been up front since, well, since Bellamy left who let me remind everyone was no great shakes himself when he first joined the club, in fact he was quite average and only in the final 15th months did we see a huge improvement in Bellamy.

 

I always knew you talked shit and basically just spouted football cliches (has a good spring on him, works the forward areas well, very raw) wrapped up in overly long posts, and all this post has done is confirmed it further. You honestly don't have a clue what you're talking about. His movement was pretty much non-existent and needs to improve VASTLY if he is going to make it in the Premiership. He caused their defence all kinds of problems??? Did he?? Did he ****.

 

I especially like the bit at the end of your post where you bemoan the modern football fan as someone that wants to see instant results - which by the way is not what the majority are saying - when you probably didn't bother going cos it was on the telly. Now THAT is the problem with the modern football fan - especially the know it all ones that talk in Match of the Day cliches when they haven't got a clue what they're on about.

 

Did you go to the game btw, Mr. Newcastle United, of was it easier just to watch this one on telly? Definitely easier to keep an eye on a player's off the ball movement if you're actually there btw.

 

Spot on.

 

No

[Guest Gemmill]

I can't believe people are saying his movement is poor or comparing his mobility to that of Shearer's over the past 2 years. Were you watching the same game as me?

 

How often did we see Shearer down both flanks? Not a lot over the past two years. Martins covered the forward areas well and his direct movement enabled both Milner and Parker to escape their markers at least 3 times that I counted down the right. Down the left he linked up well with N'Zogbia and Emre and again, his movement created space for them too

 

And what about his early chance when he checked and then got in front of his marker, just failing to flick the ball goalwards at the near post? Was that not good movement?

 

His movement is fine and he caused their defence all kinds of problems because of it, which from our point of view is very good given just how one-paced and one-dimensional we have been up front since, well, since Bellamy left who let me remind everyone was no great shakes himself when he first joined the club, in fact he was quite average and only in the final 15th months did we see a huge improvement in Bellamy.

 

I always knew you talked shit and basically just spouted football cliches (has a good spring on him, works the forward areas well, very raw) wrapped up in overly long posts, and all this post has done is confirmed it further. You honestly don't have a clue what you're talking about. His movement was pretty much non-existent and needs to improve VASTLY if he is going to make it in the Premiership. He caused their defence all kinds of problems??? Did he?? Did he ****.

 

I especially like the bit at the end of your post where you bemoan the modern football fan as someone that wants to see instant results - which by the way is not what the majority are saying - when you probably didn't bother going cos it was on the telly. Now THAT is the problem with the modern football fan - especially the know it all ones that talk in Match of the Day cliches when they haven't got a clue what they're on about.

 

Did you go to the game btw, Mr. Newcastle United, of was it easier just to watch this one on telly? Definitely easier to keep an eye on a player's off the ball movement if you're actually there btw.

 

Spot on.

 

No

 

Given that you're the poster that wrote "Here's to Obafemi Martins! Never seen a more hard-working forward, it's incredible." following his performance on Sunday, I'm sure you'll understand if I TOTALLY DISREGARD your opinion on pretty much everything from now on.

[Keefaz]

This thread is :thup:

[Guest Knightrider]

I can't believe people are saying his movement is poor or comparing his mobility to that of Shearer's over the past 2 years. Were you watching the same game as me?

 

How often did we see Shearer down both flanks? Not a lot over the past two years. Martins covered the forward areas well and his direct movement enabled both Milner and Parker to escape their markers at least 3 times that I counted down the right. Down the left he linked up well with N'Zogbia and Emre and again, his movement created space for them too

 

And what about his early chance when he checked and then got in front of his marker, just failing to flick the ball goalwards at the near post? Was that not good movement?

 

His movement is fine and he caused their defence all kinds of problems because of it, which from our point of view is very good given just how one-paced and one-dimensional we have been up front since, well, since Bellamy left who let me remind everyone was no great shakes himself when he first joined the club, in fact he was quite average and only in the final 15th months did we see a huge improvement in Bellamy.

 

I always knew you talked shit and basically just spouted football cliches (has a good spring on him, works the forward areas well, very raw) wrapped up in overly long posts, and all this post has done is confirmed it further.  You honestly don't have a clue what you're talking about.  His movement was pretty much non-existent and needs to improve VASTLY if he is going to make it in the Premiership.  He caused their defence all kinds of problems???  Did he??  Did he ****.

 

I especially like the bit at the end of your post where you bemoan the modern football fan as someone that wants to see instant results - which by the way is not what the majority are saying - when you probably didn't bother going cos it was on the telly.  Now THAT is the problem with the modern football fan - especially the know it all ones that talk in Match of the Day cliches when they haven't got a clue what they're on about. 

 

Did you go to the game btw, Mr. Newcastle United, of was it easier just to watch this one on telly?   Definitely easier to keep an eye on a player's off the ball movement if you're actually there btw. 

 

I do talk shit, you're quite correct in that but you talk shit yourself and when you can't argue with someone's point of view or opinion, which is what I've expressed (not to your liking? ), you resort to attacking the individual which is pretty sad from someone as knowledgeable as yourself.

 

Cliches they may well be, but does he have a good spring on him? Yes he does, outjumping defenders much bigger than him would suggest so.

 

Did he work the forward areas well? Yes (otherwise we wouldn't have created as many opening as we did, otherwise he wouldn't have been in positions to fluff those chances)

 

Is he raw? Yes

 

So what is your problem here? My opinions or how I express my opinions/dress them up? Stop being a cock Gemmill it doesn't suit you.

 

I have already stated the times he showed excellent movement or some form of movement which makes a mockery of your "non-existent" claims.

 

And would it matter if I wasn't at the match? Which I was BTW but nice of you to jump the gun as always.

 

Another cliche just for you

 

Anyway you carry on being a cock, I'll stick to talking shite and my cliches

 

PS Serious question BTW, when did you become such a miserable bastard? You used to give players a fair chance, I mean you give Souness months, but Martins, you're already nit picking at his game. We've all been scarred by Souness but fuck me, you've went from one extreme to the other. You gave Souness far more of a chance than you have Roeder who has done a far better job.

[Guest Gemmill]

There's a difference between nitpicking at someone's game and pointing out a pretty major flaw in their game - i.e. his lack of movement and running up front.  Which was VERY evident in the game at the weekend and which seems to have completely passed you by.  Did you see Andy Johnson?  Buzzing about all over the place and generally giving our defenders something to worry about constantly.  Compare that with Martins - totally different. 

 

You say you've pointed out that his movement was good, when in fact you've pointed out one specific instance, and then vaguely blahed about his movement down the left creating space for N'Zogbia (cobblers btw).

 

As for being a cock, I'll keep doing that thanks.  And I don't believe for a second that you were at the match either.

[James]

Gemmill, I think you are being unfair on Martins, the Everton defence sat so deeply and played such a disciplined offside trap that it was going to be very difficult for Martins to breach the gap.

 

To be honest, Roeder should have bought on Rossi very early on, as his style was more likely to penetrate Everton's defence that day. In that sense, I think Roeder must burden the responsibility of playing the wrong player in the wrong match, and then for keeping him on the pitch for longer than he should have done.

[Guest Gemmill]

Gemmill, I think you are being unfair on Martins, the Everton defence sat so deeply and played such a disciplined offside trap that it was going to be very difficult for Martins to breach the gap.

 

To be honest, Roeder should have bought on Rossi very early on, as his style was more likely to penetrate Everton's defence that day. In that sense, I think Roeder must burden the responsibility of playing the wrong player in the wrong match, and then for keeping him on the pitch for longer than he should have done.

 

No matter how deep the defence sits, that doesn't absolve the forward from responsibility of moving off the ball and creating space.  I'm not talking about him running in behind their defenders, I'm talking about lateral movement when others have the ball for instance - giving the defenders something to think about as in "shit, do I track the fast bloke or the bloke with the ball".  Instead he remained fairly static as if he was on the starting blocks waiting for the killer through ball, and made the defenders' jobs fairly easy in the process.  No good only coming to life when you have the ball.

 

Which brings us onto the topic of him with the ball.  He is supposed to be lightning fast, yet when he gets the ball and the defenders drop off him to give themselves a chance to handle him if he tears off, he doesn't bother committing them by running at them.  He should be steaming at them, hoping to either get past them or at worst draw a foul.  He doesn't though.

 

My whole argument is that he's supposed to have this incredible pace, but until he starts to use it to his advantage, he may as well be as slow as fuck.  Pace is nothing if you don't use it effectively.  It's for him and Roeder to work out between the two of them.

 

His pace should be a constant thorn in the side of opposition teams, and not something that just allows him to win the race for a misplaced pass.

[Guest Knightrider]

I thought Johnson was average and his movement likewise, he got clear once I think and Bramble cleared, the other time he was brought down and got a free kick. How many chances did he have at goal? How many did Martins have? Hw many openings did Johnson make for others? I seem to remember him forcing the man on the ball to play the wrong pass once or twice because he didn't evade his marker or make the right run.

 

Reading your comments it appears because AJ ran about like a blue arsed fly, that equates to movement in your eyes and because Martins didn't, that means he lacked movement. Depends what you class movement as. I class movement as making things happen for yourself and others. Martins had at least 3 decent chances for himself and I counted 3 times where his movement down the right flank allowed Parker and Milner to lose their markers. He also did that on the other flank with Emre and N'Zogbia. Hardly this static pedestrian you and others claim.

 

Then there was that flicked on chance at the near post early on in the game where he checked and then moved across his marker, again good movement. Or how about his movement in the box on one of a cross or set play, can't remember, where he dropped off, and when the ball came in, he got himself into a position to loop the ball over and wide, using that "spring" of his.

 

I think you're talking shite Gemmill and nit picking for the sake of it.The way you go on you'd think he done fuck all in the game yet your man Johnson didn't do anything other than run about like a headless chicken, but then that's what you want from your players, evidently.

 

Anyway, I guess we all see things differently and I saw a player who showed some promising signs, one that needs to work on his control and composure and perhaps time himself better. Other than that he caused enough problems to have, on another day, scored himself and created for others and that's what I want from my forwards, not endless running with no end product eg Johnson.

[Guest Gemmill]

Clueless tbh. 

[BottledDog]

Gemmill, I think you are being unfair on Martins, the Everton defence sat so deeply and played such a disciplined offside trap that it was going to be very difficult for Martins to breach the gap.

 

To be honest, Roeder should have bought on Rossi very early on, as his style was more likely to penetrate Everton's defence that day. In that sense, I think Roeder must burden the responsibility of playing the wrong player in the wrong match, and then for keeping him on the pitch for longer than he should have done.

 

Wow. Drop our new £10,000,000, number 9, at home, and play an on loan player because of the oppositions defensive style? That would either show Roeder as having lovely large balls, or a complete lack of faith.

 

Either way, I don't think there was much chance of that happening.

[Guest Knightrider]

Clueless tbh. 

 

As ever you cannot argue points and resort to being the cock you have become of late when you can't win a debate or see that others can have a different opinion to your own and like to express that just as robustly as you like to express your own. tbh.

[Guest Gemmill]

Clueless tbh. 

 

As ever you cannot argue points and resort to being the cock you have become of late when you can't win a debate or see that others can have a different opinion to your own and like to express that just as robustly as you like to express your own. tbh.

 

  What a prick.  I can't be arsed to respond to your long-winded cliche-ridden snoozefests, Captain Know-Nowt - I've already said my bit about Martins, I'm not about to go round the houses having to be bored to tears by you repeating the same shit you've already posted once which remains one long load of shit. 

[James]

Gemmill, I think you are being unfair on Martins, the Everton defence sat so deeply and played such a disciplined offside trap that it was going to be very difficult for Martins to breach the gap.

 

To be honest, Roeder should have bought on Rossi very early on, as his style was more likely to penetrate Everton's defence that day. In that sense, I think Roeder must burden the responsibility of playing the wrong player in the wrong match, and then for keeping him on the pitch for longer than he should have done.

 

No matter how deep the defence sits, that doesn't absolve the forward from responsibility of moving off the ball and creating space.  I'm not talking about him running in behind their defenders, I'm talking about lateral movement when others have the ball for instance - giving the defenders something to think about as in "shit, do I track the fast bloke or the bloke with the ball".  Instead he remained fairly static as if he was on the starting blocks waiting for the killer through ball, and made the defenders' jobs fairly easy in the process.  No good only coming to life when you have the ball.

 

Which brings us onto the topic of him with the ball.  He is supposed to be lightning fast, yet when he gets the ball and the defenders drop off him to give themselves a chance to handle him if he tears off, he doesn't bother committing them by running at them.  He should be steaming at them, hoping to either get past them or at worst draw a foul.  He doesn't though.

 

My whole argument is that he's supposed to have this incredible pace, but until he starts to use it to his advantage, he may as well be as slow as fuck.  Pace is nothing if you don't use it effectively.  It's for him and Roeder to work out between the two of them.

 

His pace should be a constant thorn in the side of opposition teams, and not something that just allows him to win the race for a misplaced pass.

 

He did the lateral movement thing though...

[Guest Gemmill]

Gemmill, I think you are being unfair on Martins, the Everton defence sat so deeply and played such a disciplined offside trap that it was going to be very difficult for Martins to breach the gap.

 

To be honest, Roeder should have bought on Rossi very early on, as his style was more likely to penetrate Everton's defence that day. In that sense, I think Roeder must burden the responsibility of playing the wrong player in the wrong match, and then for keeping him on the pitch for longer than he should have done.

 

No matter how deep the defence sits, that doesn't absolve the forward from responsibility of moving off the ball and creating space.  I'm not talking about him running in behind their defenders, I'm talking about lateral movement when others have the ball for instance - giving the defenders something to think about as in "shit, do I track the fast bloke or the bloke with the ball".  Instead he remained fairly static as if he was on the starting blocks waiting for the killer through ball, and made the defenders' jobs fairly easy in the process.  No good only coming to life when you have the ball.

 

Which brings us onto the topic of him with the ball.  He is supposed to be lightning fast, yet when he gets the ball and the defenders drop off him to give themselves a chance to handle him if he tears off, he doesn't bother committing them by running at them.  He should be steaming at them, hoping to either get past them or at worst draw a foul.  He doesn't though.

 

My whole argument is that he's supposed to have this incredible pace, but until he starts to use it to his advantage, he may as well be as slow as fuck.  Pace is nothing if you don't use it effectively.  It's for him and Roeder to work out between the two of them.

 

His pace should be a constant thorn in the side of opposition teams, and not something that just allows him to win the race for a misplaced pass.

 

He did the lateral movement thing though...

 

Once or twice.  Not often enough.  We've been lacking movement up front for an age, so we bought a pacey bloke to put it right.  We still lack movement up front.  Ask any of our midfielders when they're looking for an option, they'll tell you.