How long does Keegan get...

[NE5]

We had a bid accepted for Woodgate though Leazes so that puts your theory about the funds to bed surely.

 

Time will tell.

 

We needed forwards and I suspect that given half a chance Keegan would have brought at least one in. As I said, if HE decided the forwards we had were good enough I'd be surprised and also he will have to bear the responsibility for his judgement.

 

Remember Mort saying before the deadline that if we bought anybody it would be for the future. w******, considering the position we were in and the fixtures coming up.

 

 

 

 

You were putting forward the possibility funds may have been withheld in January were you not?

 

We also had a bids for Wes Brown and Giles Barnes rejected too.

Did KK mention Barnes? Cause i had the feeling it was a decision made by the other lot, more of the 'promising youngsters' thing rather than 1st team player.

 

indeed, the short term is paramount, considering our position. As for Wes Brown, he's an average player surrounded by great players. I would rather have had Phil Neville for instance if we are going to bring in manure fringe players, or ex manure fringe players. But we need forwards, we've needed them for 2 years. We still haven't replaced Shearer and Bellamy, and add Solano and a Dyer type of player who actually plays and wants to play, to this, is exactly why we are where we are now.

 

 

 

 

 

If that's the current board's fault it's the previous board's fault too then, surely. (I actually blame the managers we've had since Robson and before KK but you get my point).

 

to a point. Buying Owen was undoubtedly attempting to continue a policy of bringing in the best players possible, where possible. Especially with Shearers immiment retirement. Nobody was to know he was going to suffer such long term injuries. With the right partner and fitness they could have did what Beardsley/Cole did, and Shearer/Bellamy. In fact, Owen and Bellamy would have been a great partnership IMO.

 

All you can do is buy the quality players. And yes I do concede we paid too much for Owen, but we paid too much for other players, and lots of other clubs do exactly the same. If they perform it doesn't matter paying a bit over the odds, thats what our fanbase gives us ie an advantage over lots of other clubs.

 

 

 

 

 

true... who's know owen will be crocked for s*** when we buy him... we are pretty unlucky with him... we buy also martin to replace his place... but the worst thing i felt is.... why we just buy 1 quality striker at a time.... why we don't buy 2 quality striker at once?.... why we are so depend on 1 striker? why we don't make quality partnerships up front..... i guess it all blames to the management.... they are too depend on 1 person just like shearer era.... football has change... the way football playing is changed... and the management just stuck in the past... buying owen at first place with huge money at first place when u can get 2 quality strikers is insane and managerial error also... look at the way big 4 strikers stocks... even they have quality strikers also in the bench

 

Rooney cost how much ?

 

Tevez ? (What will he cost manure this summer)

 

Ronaldo ? (12m 4 years ago or whatever it was now)

 

Drogba ?

 

Torres ?

 

The best players cost the most money mate. You will never match the top teams if you don't compete with them. You can find these players on their way up in the game, of course you can, but not every time. Nobody does, and these players and the fees they cost their current clubs are proof.

 

 

 

at least with 17m u can get 2 quality strikers..... i don't say it must be already world-class rated striker either...

i think it our scouting was the extremely bad... for searching players

 

if we going to get rooney, teves, ronaldo, drogba, torres.... i can be NUFC scout also.... by using TV every week as source

 

Open to debate of course, but I don't think Alex Ferguson would swap Rooney for a couple of 10m-ish lesser players.

 

 

[juniatmoko]

We had a bid accepted for Woodgate though Leazes so that puts your theory about the funds to bed surely.

 

Time will tell.

 

We needed forwards and I suspect that given half a chance Keegan would have brought at least one in. As I said, if HE decided the forwards we had were good enough I'd be surprised and also he will have to bear the responsibility for his judgement.

 

Remember Mort saying before the deadline that if we bought anybody it would be for the future. w******, considering the position we were in and the fixtures coming up.

 

 

 

 

You were putting forward the possibility funds may have been withheld in January were you not?

 

We also had a bids for Wes Brown and Giles Barnes rejected too.

Did KK mention Barnes? Cause i had the feeling it was a decision made by the other lot, more of the 'promising youngsters' thing rather than 1st team player.

 

indeed, the short term is paramount, considering our position. As for Wes Brown, he's an average player surrounded by great players. I would rather have had Phil Neville for instance if we are going to bring in manure fringe players, or ex manure fringe players. But we need forwards, we've needed them for 2 years. We still haven't replaced Shearer and Bellamy, and add Solano and a Dyer type of player who actually plays and wants to play, to this, is exactly why we are where we are now.

 

 

 

 

 

If that's the current board's fault it's the previous board's fault too then, surely. (I actually blame the managers we've had since Robson and before KK but you get my point).

 

to a point. Buying Owen was undoubtedly attempting to continue a policy of bringing in the best players possible, where possible. Especially with Shearers immiment retirement. Nobody was to know he was going to suffer such long term injuries. With the right partner and fitness they could have did what Beardsley/Cole did, and Shearer/Bellamy. In fact, Owen and Bellamy would have been a great partnership IMO.

 

All you can do is buy the quality players. And yes I do concede we paid too much for Owen, but we paid too much for other players, and lots of other clubs do exactly the same. If they perform it doesn't matter paying a bit over the odds, thats what our fanbase gives us ie an advantage over lots of other clubs.

 

 

 

 

 

true... who's know owen will be crocked for s*** when we buy him... we are pretty unlucky with him... we buy also martin to replace his place... but the worst thing i felt is.... why we just buy 1 quality striker at a time.... why we don't buy 2 quality striker at once?.... why we are so depend on 1 striker? why we don't make quality partnerships up front..... i guess it all blames to the management.... they are too depend on 1 person just like shearer era.... football has change... the way football playing is changed... and the management just stuck in the past... buying owen at first place with huge money at first place when u can get 2 quality strikers is insane and managerial error also... look at the way big 4 strikers stocks... even they have quality strikers also in the bench

 

Rooney cost how much ?

 

Tevez ? (What will he cost manure this summer)

 

Ronaldo ? (12m 4 years ago or whatever it was now)

 

Drogba ?

 

Torres ?

 

The best players cost the most money mate. You will never match the top teams if you don't compete with them. You can find these players on their way up in the game, of course you can, but not every time. Nobody does, and these players and the fees they cost their current clubs are proof.

 

 

 

at least with 17m u can get 2 quality strikers..... i don't say it must be already world-class rated striker either...

i think it our scouting was the extremely bad... for searching players

 

if we going to get rooney, teves, ronaldo, drogba, torres.... i can be NUFC scout also.... by using TV every week as source

 

Open to debate of course, but I don't think Alex Ferguson would swap Rooney for a couple of 10m-ish lesser players.

 

 

 

why would he do that.... we talk about NUFC not MU? we not yet title challenger... we want top half finish...

we do aiming big 4 performance... but certainly in UEFA cup every season is mint.... and do well in there also...

[UV]

Mort is completely to blame for us not strengthening the team in January.

 

Coming in to January he had 2 choices where the transfer window could be utilised sensibly. Either appoint a new manager before the transfer window giving him time & games to asses the current squad and see who was available on the market that would make a difference. Or keep Allardyce on and allow him to bring in the players he had already targeted. Instead of this, a new manager was brought in with only 2 weeks of the transfer windows left, and to compound this the manager they chose had been out of the game, and thus would only have a passing knowledge of the current state of our squad and no knowledge of who may/may not be available on the transfer market. Any transfers we could possibly make in this situation would be for players with a known pedigree in the premiership, or players Allardyce and our scouts had already targeted (some of which had already transferred to other clubs).

 

With his choices limited, I don't care what good intentions there were to bring players in on Keegan's part, at that point in the transfer window the only way other clubs were going to part with players they hadn't considered losing, or in the case of Woodgate, make players change their minds about where they were moving to would have been for us to pay over the odds in transfer fees and/or wages. 3 bids. 3 rejections. The money was there to make the bid, but the money wasn't there to make the transfer happen.

 

The old board was often criticised for paying over the odds for players, and maybe sometimes they did, but more often than not the end result was we got the player ahead of Spurs, Everton, Liverpool, etc. Maybe Mort and his new recruitment team were simply not willing to pay over the odds, even when it is more significant now than it ever has been in the club's premiership history? I'm still willing to give Ashley the benefit of the doubt, but it looks more and more likely to me that Mort's priorities are to the balance sheet first, and the health of the team second. Everything he's said and done have pointed to this. If so I'd expect most people to applaud the financial prudence of the board as this is what most said they wanted, but now we face the reality of it I hope no-one complains about the consequences.

 

[NE5]

Mort is completely to blame for us not strengthening the team in January.

 

Coming in to January he had 2 choices where the transfer window could be utilised sensibly. Either appoint a new manager before the transfer window giving him time & games to asses the current squad and see who was available on the market that would make a difference. Or keep Allardyce on and allow him to bring in the players he had already targeted. Instead of this, a new manager was brought in with only 2 weeks of the transfer windows left, and to compound this the manager they chose had been out of the game, and thus would only have a passing knowledge of the current state of our squad and no knowledge of who may/may not be available on the transfer market. Any transfers we could possibly make in this situation would be for players with a known pedigree in the premiership, or players Allardyce and our scouts had already targeted (some of which had already transferred to other clubs).

 

With his choices limited, I don't care what good intentions there were to bring players in on Keegan's part, at that point in the transfer window the only way other clubs were going to part with players they hadn't considered losing, or in the case of Woodgate, make players change their minds about where they were moving to would have been for us to pay over the odds in transfer fees and/or wages. 3 bids. 3 rejections. The money was there to make the bid, but the money wasn't there to make the transfer happen.

 

The old board was often criticised for paying over the odds for players, and maybe sometimes they did, but more often than not the end result was we got the player ahead of Spurs, Everton, Liverpool, etc. Maybe Mort and his new recruitment team were simply not willing to pay over the odds, even when it is more significant now than it ever has been in the club's premiership history? I'm still willing to give Ashley the benefit of the doubt, but it looks more and more likely to me that Mort's priorities are to the balance sheet first, and the health of the team second. Everything he's said and done have pointed to this. If so I'd expect most people to applaud the financial prudence of the board as this is what most said they wanted, but now we face the reality of it I hope no-one complains about the consequences.

 

 

 

spot on. The essence of having an ambitious board or not. Mort is increasingly looking like a clueless idiot to me. Its called using your fanbase to your advantage, and if you don't do it you are the same as those without a big fanbase. Hardly rocket science unless you are a blind man or blindly refuse to accept the obvious.

 

 

[TRon]

Mort is completely to blame for us not strengthening the team in January.

 

Coming in to January he had 2 choices where the transfer window could be utilised sensibly. Either appoint a new manager before the transfer window giving him time & games to asses the current squad and see who was available on the market that would make a difference. Or keep Allardyce on and allow him to bring in the players he had already targeted. Instead of this, a new manager was brought in with only 2 weeks of the transfer windows left, and to compound this the manager they chose had been out of the game, and thus would only have a passing knowledge of the current state of our squad and no knowledge of who may/may not be available on the transfer market. Any transfers we could possibly make in this situation would be for players with a known pedigree in the premiership, or players Allardyce and our scouts had already targeted (some of which had already transferred to other clubs).

 

With his choices limited, I don't care what good intentions there were to bring players in on Keegan's part, at that point in the transfer window the only way other clubs were going to part with players they hadn't considered losing, or in the case of Woodgate, make players change their minds about where they were moving to would have been for us to pay over the odds in transfer fees and/or wages. 3 bids. 3 rejections. The money was there to make the bid, but the money wasn't there to make the transfer happen.

 

The old board was often criticised for paying over the odds for players, and maybe sometimes they did, but more often than not the end result was we got the player ahead of Spurs, Everton, Liverpool, etc. Maybe Mort and his new recruitment team were simply not willing to pay over the odds, even when it is more significant now than it ever has been in the club's premiership history? I'm still willing to give Ashley the benefit of the doubt, but it looks more and more likely to me that Mort's priorities are to the balance sheet first, and the health of the team second. Everything he's said and done have pointed to this. If so I'd expect most people to applaud the financial prudence of the board as this is what most said they wanted, but now we face the reality of it I hope no-one complains about the consequences.

 

 

 

spot on. The essence of having an ambitious board or not. Mort is increasingly looking like a clueless idiot to me. Its called using your fanbase to your advantage, and if you don't do it you are the same as those without a big fanbase. Hardly rocket science unless you are a blind man or blindly refuse to accept the obvious.

 

 

 

Or just waiting to see if Ashley/Mort spend in the summer assuming we stay up.

[NE5]

Mort is completely to blame for us not strengthening the team in January.

 

Coming in to January he had 2 choices where the transfer window could be utilised sensibly. Either appoint a new manager before the transfer window giving him time & games to asses the current squad and see who was available on the market that would make a difference. Or keep Allardyce on and allow him to bring in the players he had already targeted. Instead of this, a new manager was brought in with only 2 weeks of the transfer windows left, and to compound this the manager they chose had been out of the game, and thus would only have a passing knowledge of the current state of our squad and no knowledge of who may/may not be available on the transfer market. Any transfers we could possibly make in this situation would be for players with a known pedigree in the premiership, or players Allardyce and our scouts had already targeted (some of which had already transferred to other clubs).

 

With his choices limited, I don't care what good intentions there were to bring players in on Keegan's part, at that point in the transfer window the only way other clubs were going to part with players they hadn't considered losing, or in the case of Woodgate, make players change their minds about where they were moving to would have been for us to pay over the odds in transfer fees and/or wages. 3 bids. 3 rejections. The money was there to make the bid, but the money wasn't there to make the transfer happen.

 

The old board was often criticised for paying over the odds for players, and maybe sometimes they did, but more often than not the end result was we got the player ahead of Spurs, Everton, Liverpool, etc. Maybe Mort and his new recruitment team were simply not willing to pay over the odds, even when it is more significant now than it ever has been in the club's premiership history? I'm still willing to give Ashley the benefit of the doubt, but it looks more and more likely to me that Mort's priorities are to the balance sheet first, and the health of the team second. Everything he's said and done have pointed to this. If so I'd expect most people to applaud the financial prudence of the board as this is what most said they wanted, but now we face the reality of it I hope no-one complains about the consequences.

 

 

 

spot on. The essence of having an ambitious board or not. Mort is increasingly looking like a clueless idiot to me. Its called using your fanbase to your advantage, and if you don't do it you are the same as those without a big fanbase. Hardly rocket science unless you are a blind man or blindly refuse to accept the obvious.

 

 

 

Or just waiting to see if Ashley/Mort spend in the summer assuming we stay up.

 

Assuming we stay up.

 

And assuming they understand football.

 

How long are you going to give them to match those top 4 finishes and european qualifications ?

 

 

[Thomson Mouse]

mackems.gif

 

Is this your one man mission to make sure that nothing negative is said about the old board?

 

Never seen such blinkered views in my life.

 

Cue retort of top 4 European quals and 3 consec top 5 finishes and how well we're doing nows etc etc.

 

 

 

never mind about the relegation struggle, at least we didn't waste any money in the transfer window 

 

What, you mean on the likes of Luque etc?

 

Wish we'd bought more like him, maybe the chairman could've bid for Rooney again?

 

I see. Qualifying for europe more than every club bar 4, and our 3 top 5 highest consecutive league positions for 50 years is something you don't agree with either I take it ?

 

Was that aimed at me?

 

If it was, where did I mention it? Please show me.

 

You are jumping on the current board after allowing them very little time to achieve anything.

 

Why not compare what happens after another 10-12 years? You may have an argument then.

 

What about comparing the 1st year of both regimes?

 

more than happy to do that, however if you are happy at them not recognising a serious situation, then you shouldn't be.

 

You ARE aware the previous regime saved the club from bankruptcy, the 3rd division and a failed share issue aren't you ?

 

Thats fact by the way, not something I've made up to "defend" them.

 

 

 

 

But what was the point in achieving all that they did (whilst making a shit load of money in the process), then leaving us in such a mess?

 

[NE5]

mackems.gif

 

Is this your one man mission to make sure that nothing negative is said about the old board?

 

Never seen such blinkered views in my life.

 

Cue retort of top 4 European quals and 3 consec top 5 finishes and how well we're doing nows etc etc.

 

 

 

never mind about the relegation struggle, at least we didn't waste any money in the transfer window 

 

What, you mean on the likes of Luque etc?

 

Wish we'd bought more like him, maybe the chairman could've bid for Rooney again?

 

I see. Qualifying for europe more than every club bar 4, and our 3 top 5 highest consecutive league positions for 50 years is something you don't agree with either I take it ?

 

Was that aimed at me?

 

If it was, where did I mention it? Please show me.

 

You are jumping on the current board after allowing them very little time to achieve anything.

 

Why not compare what happens after another 10-12 years? You may have an argument then.

 

What about comparing the 1st year of both regimes?

 

more than happy to do that, however if you are happy at them not recognising a serious situation, then you shouldn't be.

 

You ARE aware the previous regime saved the club from bankruptcy, the 3rd division and a failed share issue aren't you ?

 

Thats fact by the way, not something I've made up to "defend" them.

 

 

 

 

But what was the point in achieving all that they did (whilst making a shit load of money in the process), then leaving us in such a mess?

 

 

what do you think they should do ? Not continue attempting to be successful ?

 

Maybe not answering that would be better ........

 

 

[Dave]

How long are you going to give them to match those top 4 finishes and european qualifications ?

 

 

 

How long are you going to give them?

 

Less than the first year by the looks of things.

[NE5]

How long are you going to give them to match those top 4 finishes and european qualifications ?

 

 

 

How long are you going to give them?

 

Less than the first year by the looks of things.

 

Already explained. Morts attitude and comments have shown him to be naive and foolish and could yet see us surrender our premiership status. Those who have put prudency before the quality of footballer in the dressing room have nothing to complain about, they are getting what they wanted.

 

 

 

[fredbob]

I thought keegan said money was available?? I dont get whats gone wrong if moeny was available and it wasnt spent.

[NE5]

I thought keegan said money was available?? I dont get whats gone wrong if moeny was available and it wasnt spent.

 

oh dear

 

[Dave]

It's looking like a mistake by all involved, including Keegan. You know, a mistake, like appointing Graeme Souness for example.

 

Nobody's perfect, and it's ridiculous you're doing now yourself what you've slagged off others for, for years. Let's see what happens in the long run eh?

[NE5]

It's looking like a mistake by all involved, including Keegan. You know, a mistake, like appointing Graeme Souness for example.

 

Nobody's perfect, and it's ridiculous you're doing now yourself what you've slagged off others for, for years. Let's see what happens in the long run eh?

 

indeed it is. Mistakes are acceptable - you have no choice - everyone makes them, whats important is trying to do things in the right way, and just right now Mort doesn't have a clue about football . Still never mind about relegation just so long as the club sells before it buys average footballers for not a penny more than they are worth eh, just like all the other clubs going nowhere

 

 

 

[Dave]

Just making things up again. That didn't last long.

 

I'm out.

[Mick]

 

Already explained. Morts attitude and comments have shown him to be naive and foolish and could yet see us surrender our premiership status. Those who have put prudency before the quality of footballer in the dressing room have nothing to complain about, they are getting what they wanted.

 

 

 

 

The Mort attitude you're going on about isn't reality though, at least not in the real world, how any sane person could doubt that Keegan had money to spend is beyond me.

[Syrette]

NE5.

 

PLEASE - we're begging here - can you tell us exactly what is behind your agenda?

[fredbob]

I thought keegan said money was available?? I dont get whats gone wrong if moeny was available and it wasnt spent.

 

oh dear

 

 

Fancy elaborating, with one of your conspiracy theories hopefully...

[NE5]

NE5.

 

PLEASE - we're begging here - can you tell us exactly what is behind your agenda?

 

the good of the club ?

 

Avoiding relegation ?

 

Hoping they will match the best positions of the old board, as a minimum ?

 

Take your pick

 

 

[Syrette]

You seem to think the board will be squarely to blame for us getting relegated though, should it happen.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

You seem to think the new board will be squarely to blame for us getting relegated though, should it happen.

[NE5]

Just making things up again. That didn't last long.

 

I'm out.

 

making up the fact that Keegan said he wanted 3 new players and Mort said any new players would be for the future ? The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but nothing is made up here

 

If Mort wishes to exercise prudency before signing quality footballers, he's out for me and the sooner the better

[Mick]

If anybody wondered why Keegan walked away from Newcastle during his first few months at the club as manager, here it is.  He was being asked to sell Gavin Peacock and David Kelly in this letter offering him a contract.

 

Following the Board Meeting today, I write to set out proposals for your further engagement with Newcastle United as Team Manager.

 

The Board are unanimously in support of your remaining with the Club and, being aware of the importance you place upon the future stability of the Club, have formulated a new financial package which they believe will bring stability and also allow investment in the playing squad.

 

This new package, which involves a further substantial equity injection likely to be funded mainly by Board members and anticipates player sales, requires your support in terms of your acceptance of the amount that can initially be made available for player purchases.  This is fundamental to the future of the club in financial terms since the club’s aim in the first season must be to at least break even in cash terms.

 

Currently there does not appear to be any other realistic alternative open to the Directors to secure the club’s future.

 

The proposal is as follows:

 

That a minimum sum of £1.5 million be raised from the sale of players currently at the end of their contracts or from players under contract that do not figure in your future plans.

 

Fifty percent of all transfer fee receipts up to £2 million will be made available for player purchase.

 

In the event that transfer fee receipts exceed £2 million then all such additional monies will also be made available to you for further player purchases if required.

 

The Directors to arrange a further equity injection of £1 million .

 

Your contractual arrangements with the club are proposed as follows:

 

Basic salary - £125,000 per annum.

 

Bonus for promotion to the Premier League - £50,000.

 

Basic salary Premier League - £175,000 per annum.

 

Commensurate bonuses for the Premier League Championship, European qualification and competitions, Domestic Cup competitions.

 

Normal relocation benefits.

 

Company vehicle.

 

In addition the Board offer by way of additional remuneration shares at par (50p) in Newcastle United PLC to the value of £125,000 for each year of your employment with the company.

 

The above letter was signed by Russell Cushing.

 

 

[NE5]

If anybody wondered why Keegan walked away from Newcastle during his first few months at the club as manager, here it is.  He was being asked to sell Gavin Peacock and David Kelly in this letter offering him a contract.

 

Following the Board Meeting today, I write to set out proposals for your further engagement with Newcastle United as Team Manager.

 

The Board are unanimously in support of your remaining with the Club and, being aware of the importance you place upon the future stability of the Club, have formulated a new financial package which they believe will bring stability and also allow investment in the playing squad.

 

This new package, which involves a further substantial equity injection likely to be funded mainly by Board members and anticipates player sales, requires your support in terms of your acceptance of the amount that can initially be made available for player purchases.  This is fundamental to the future of the club in financial terms since the club’s aim in the first season must be to at least break even in cash terms.

 

Currently there does not appear to be any other realistic alternative open to the Directors to secure the club’s future.

 

The proposal is as follows:

 

That a minimum sum of £1.5 million be raised from the sale of players currently at the end of their contracts or from players under contract that do not figure in your future plans.

 

Fifty percent of all transfer fee receipts up to £2 million will be made available for player purchase.

 

In the event that transfer fee receipts exceed £2 million then all such additional monies will also be made available to you for further player purchases if required.

 

The Directors to arrange a further equity injection of £1 million .

 

Your contractual arrangements with the club are proposed as follows:

 

Basic salary - £125,000 per annum.

 

Bonus for promotion to the Premier League - £50,000.

 

Basic salary Premier League - £175,000 per annum.

 

Commensurate bonuses for the Premier League Championship, European qualification and competitions, Domestic Cup competitions.

 

Normal relocation benefits.

 

Company vehicle.

 

In addition the Board offer by way of additional remuneration shares at par (50p) in Newcastle United PLC to the value of £125,000 for each year of your employment with the company.

 

The above letter was signed by Russell Cushing.

 

 

this I know.

 

Whats your point, other than proving that your idol Sir John Hall [chairman] maybe wasn't so great as you paint him out to be [see the less than impressive bold bit] ?

 

But you don't accept that it was Shepherd, Hall Jnr and fletchers idea to appoint him in the first place either do you, despite Keegan himself saying so 

[Ally]

Wheres that from?