Timing: Our past, the present, our future? by NE5

[Dave]

Oh, and on the main site there has been a poll running about Shepherd for months, asking whether people rate him. Currently 2941 of the 4916 voted 'no'. I am all those too.

[Dave]

Yes. I am them ALL.

 

For the record, i've never asked you that before.

 

yes but your alter egos have.

 

They must be, you all just repeat the same thing.

 

 

 

I am them, aren't you listening?

 

I have 78 Firefox tabs open right now.

[Dokko]

so ne5 in your infinit wisdom tell us what you think is the next logical step for nufc and fat fred to get back to those dizzy heights

 

Don't let any fan under the age of 30 into SJP.

 

You'll be left with a right bunch.  bluebigrazz.gif

 

Before 1992 mate, and currently among the vast majority of clubs that we have overtaken since - with the current shite board that has overtaken numerous better run clubs with better boards , there is plenty of room in the ground for people of all ages.

 

But don't let that fact get in the way of your paranoia and naivety

 

 

 

The young fans of this club is what keeps the money coming in, what keeps this shite board alive. I know older fans really hate being labelled glory supporters as the club bloomed on its return to top flight, but that's they way it is. The fact we've maintained the attendances & revenues since our return shows these glory-hunters have heart, and maybe were just born into NUFC a little late, or maybe the way Sky TV transformed the EPL in timing with our own revival made our boom more noticable.

 

But dont let a good thing ruin a good old whinge.  bluebiggrin.gif

 

PS: I am Dave 

[Dave]

Hi Toon's Taylor.

 

[Dokko]

Hi Toons Taylor.

 

 

See how quick i am.

[Dave]

Shit, I quoted that post before I edited in the apostrophe!

[NE5]

Oh, and on the main site there has been a poll running about Shepherd for months, asking whether people rate him. Currently 2941 of the 4916 voted 'no'. I am all those too.

 

very well cutted and pasted. I'm impressed 

[Dokko]

Shit, I quoted that post before I edited in the apostrophe!

 

Thats how good i am!

 

:first:

[Parky]

Dave occassionally take over my machine, but I've got used to it and just see it as one of his little quirks. bluewink.gif

[midds]

Same shit, different thread... coffee.gif

[Parky]

I hate your advark...I swear everytime I see it I run into the kitchen looking for biscuits. bluedead.gif

[Syrette]

Indeed.

 

Shame on Midds to keep advertising them to us, blatent corporate whore, just because he loves their orangey goodness doesn't mean we should have to as well.

[midds]

I hate your advark...I swear everytime I see it I run into the kitchen looking for biscuits. bluedead.gif

 

Technically it's a cake but we'll let you off... :winking:

[Dokko]

Indeed.

 

Shame on Midds to keep advertising them to us, blatent corporate whore, just because he loves their orangey taste doesn't mean we should have to as well.

 

The other flavoured ones never worked. Strawberry Jaffas, naaa.

[midds]

Indeed.

 

Shame on Midds to keep advertising them to us, blatent corporate whore, just because he loves their orangey goodness doesn't mean we should have to as well.

 

divvent fucking start... :winking:

[Guest elbee909]

OK then, so - do YOU think clubs have a divine right to stay 2nd forever, or they are "shit" ?

 

What's divinity got to do with anything?

 

Why are you happy to accept such a discernible decline over the last ten years?  Who does the buck stop with, in your opinion?  Don't give us the 'your opinion isn't worth anything because you've not seen a really shit board' argument either, it's simply not relevant.  Do we have a divine right to be becoming more and more mediocre with every passing year?  Robson, to Souness, to Roeder - give us a break, someone couldn't lose the plot any more than that.

 

I think it is pretty fair. The facts are that SJH was chairman while Keegan was manager and we have not done so well since.

 

However - we still have the same board, primarily, with the same major shareholders. Is this correct or not ?

 

Yeah, and aren't they doing better than ever.  Hooray.  Now of course they have less opposition at board level due to cronyism than any time before.  Double hooray.

 

 

Hall Jnr, Shepherd and Fletcher were responsible for appointing Keegan as manager, NOT Sir John Hall.

 

That's interesting, I'd not heard that.  Course, at that time Shepherd had had practically no knowledge of running a club.  You'd think with experience he'd have got better at appointing managers.  Unless - as I think most of us know - it was a fucking lucky strike backed with supreme bankrolling by... hmm, not Freddy, but Sir John Hall.

 

Perhaps if inexperience works, he should let Belgravia come on board, because it's pretty obvious experience isn't leading to success for him.

 

 

So - why exactly does Hall Jnr, Shepherd and Fletcher get zero credit for Keegans appointment ? And SJH all of it ?

 

He bankrolled it.  Probably why.

 

The same SJH who showed outstanding leadership and "planning" that he almost lost him only weeks into his managerial career for going back on his word to sign a couple of players for a couple of hundred grand apiece ? Good leadership and good planning ?

 

If Freddy had done it you'd be defending him to the hilt, arguing prudence.  And planning?  Again, where was the planning post-Robson, post-Souness?

 

Hall Jnr and Shepherd were also responsible for appointing Dalglish to succeed Keegan, who was a multiple trophy winner [ 4 League championships with 2 different clubs, 2 FA Cups and 3 manager of the year awards] and one of the highest qualified managers in world football to take on the Newcastle job. If you are not impressed with that, what is your criteria for appointing managers?

 

Hmm.  Forget mine - ask me what their criteria are, if they can appoint Roeder post-Souness?  Souness, post-Robson?  Each one quite possibly worse, on paper, than the one before.  And I'd love to know the exact set of criteria for dispensing with one might be, sacking Robson four games into a season, fucking genius timing that one.  Leading to one of the most horrendously shit appointments in recent times, who was only dispensed with when three players ran into each other.  Jesus.

 

And how we can credit anyone at the club now with appointing Robson when they saw fit to treat him so unbelievably shabbily to boot him out is beyond me.

 

Dalglish.  He was appointed largely because... he was free to appoint.  That's the criteria I think they went for there, in all honesty.  Big name, free.  All the more laughable when you consider how much we probably paid Blackburn for a worse manager in Souness.  Where's the logic, the consistent logic?

 

Dalglish is one you like to fall back on though, I do think he's someone who let football pass him by post-Blackburn.  Celtic went pretty, well, shite for him and it takes someone to mess up so convincingly in a 2 horse league.

 

I am sorry...I can accept you have an "opinion", but where plain facts show an opinion to be flawed, it is right that facts are pointed out and if people can't accept them because they have a paranoid opinion, and no mind of their own that enables them to arrive at a factual based opinion, then that is their problem.

 

Same goes for you, I hope.

 

[Kitman]

Roeder in need of remedy for Newcastle’s dire rear

David Hulott

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

David Hulott is a Football Consultant to a couple of major bookmakers....

[full biography]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"what Roeder is left with defensively - Steven Taylor; Titus Bramble; Celestine Babayaro; Stephen Carr; Peter Ramage; Craig Moore and Olivier Bernard. For a club with top four aspirations, that is simply not good enough"

 

 

If one accepts the conventional wisdom that successful teams are built from a solid defensive base then, with almost three months until the transfer window is prised open again for business, Newcastle United manager Glenn Roeder must either be coming from a completely different school of thought, or else he must be enduring some sleepless nights of late as he lies awake pondering how to navigate the next dozen or so games with the defenders currently at his disposal.

 

The defensive frailties at the club were patently obvious last term, so it is difficult to comprehend why nothing was done to address the problem over the summer. Indeed, the situation is now even worse, with Jean-Alain Boumsong moving to Juventus in the transfer window without being replaced. The departure of the French centre-back was never likely to result in mass protests on the streets on Tyneside, but the club’s inability to replace him in what was already a problem area is perplexing in the extreme.

 

It can be argued that getting £3.3 million for a player who rarely convinced during his time in England was good business (even if they did make a hefty loss on him overall), but the sale looks less prudent when one considers what Roeder is left with defensively - Steven Taylor; Titus Bramble; Celestine Babayaro; Stephen Carr; Peter Ramage; Craig Moore and Olivier Bernard. For a club with top four aspirations, that is simply not good enough.

 

Apparently there were unsuccessful bids for Jonathan Woodgate, Lucas Neill, Zat Knight and Robert Huth, but the transfer window was open for long enough for them to have done far more than the last-minute deal to bring in the out-of-contract Bernard, in a move that smacked of desperation. It also has to be questioned as to why they failed to attract the aforementioned defenders, with the likelihood being that Freddy Shepherd was far too concerned in wooing the likes of Damien Duff and Obafemi Martins to worry about a little thing like have a defence worthy of the name. Glamorous signings are all very well, but not to the detriment of the squad’s overall balance.

 

The recent long-term injury to Shay Given has only accentuated the problem, with Roeder now having to rely on perennial bench-warmer Steve Harper to cover for the excellent Irishman. To Roeder’s credit, his team has yet to be on the end of a mauling this term, but perhaps that is at least partly due to the fact that Newcastle are increasingly having to make sacrifices further forward in order to bolster the midfield in front of the fragile defence. The current situation is also likely to be a steep learning curve for young Taylor and Ramage, both of whom will hopefully come out the other side better players as a result.

 

Despite this, Roeder’s priorities still appear to lie in attack, having recently stated that, "By the time of the transfer window we have to be in a position to bring in a striker with power and presence", with reference to the news that Shola Ameobi is set to be sidelined in the New Year. Ameobi certainly offers a physical presence that will be missed, but with Martins, Giuseppe Rossi (probably on his way back to Old Trafford in January) and Albert Luque all available and the likes of Duff, Kieron Dyer, James Milner, Charles N’Zogbia and even Antoine Sibierski all capable of helping out on the attacking front, it does seem surprising that the defence seemed to be almost an afterthought, with Roeder going on to add, “We want a striker and we are looking for a defender too.” A defender? Just the one? That sounds less than encouraging.

 

Roeder will attract criticism from some quarters, but he has actually done a sterling job under the circumstances, with the main fault surely resting with the board. Few can seriously believe that the manager has free rein over the comings and goings at St James’s Park, with the transfer policy seemingly largely governed by Shepherd.

 

Until the club are shot of the current board, it is difficult to see them making the progress they are undoubtedly capable of. With the recent rejection of the £91 million offer from Belgravia Group (the Jersey-based investment group), it seems that Freddy and the dreamers will be in residence for a while yet.

 

David Hulott

6 October 2006

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

From Squarefootball.net.  David Hulott obviously hasn't been listening to NE5.

[Guest The Fox]

Well how can anyone take NE5's posts seriously, he is just a wind up merchant.

He denies we have gone backwards since Sir John Hall, yet states we have not reached the Keegan heights since. So thats's the first contradiction. Then states do you expect us to stay 2nd forever, well if we have finished below 2nd we have gone backwards. Does not take a lot of working out.

As has been pointed out elsewhere he ignores facts, such as Shepherds appointments and Roeder's managerial record. Add the uninspiring lot we now have on the pitch and as I've said time and time again we have gone backwards.

But keep taking the tablets mate.

[Guest JPFIN]

I enjoyed the article. Why so many people cant accept NE5's point of view I dont know.

While I'd prefer someone else as our chairman, the points made out by NE5 are very much valid(even when said for the umpteenth time).

Shepherds reign hasnt been as big a failure as many people seem to think. Surely he has made mistakes, maybe more than one chairman should be allowed to do, but to say he has been a failure for not reaching the Keegan heights is way too simplistic. Its the black and white approach that i hate. Yes, you can say the article is very pro Shepherd, but I dont think its too much, especially when NE5 backs his opinions well.

There has been good times during the Shepherd reign, but not many are giving him credit for that.

 

Shepherd out!

 

 

 

[Rob W]

I've supported them all my life and I really can't understand why we win nowt

 

We've had good even great players, some good managers, fanatic support, and the Board over the last 10-15 years has been no worse than others - but we're still shite

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dokko]

Roeder in need of remedy for Newcastle’s dire rear

David Hulott

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

David Hulott is a Football Consultant to a couple of major bookmakers....

[full biography]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"what Roeder is left with defensively - Steven Taylor; Titus Bramble; Celestine Babayaro; Stephen Carr; Peter Ramage; Craig Moore and Olivier Bernard. For a club with top four aspirations, that is simply not good enough"

 

 

If one accepts the conventional wisdom that successful teams are built from a solid defensive base then, with almost three months until the transfer window is prised open again for business, Newcastle United manager Glenn Roeder must either be coming from a completely different school of thought, or else he must be enduring some sleepless nights of late as he lies awake pondering how to navigate the next dozen or so games with the defenders currently at his disposal.

 

The defensive frailties at the club were patently obvious last term, so it is difficult to comprehend why nothing was done to address the problem over the summer. Indeed, the situation is now even worse, with Jean-Alain Boumsong moving to Juventus in the transfer window without being replaced. The departure of the French centre-back was never likely to result in mass protests on the streets on Tyneside, but the club’s inability to replace him in what was already a problem area is perplexing in the extreme.

 

It can be argued that getting £3.3 million for a player who rarely convinced during his time in England was good business (even if they did make a hefty loss on him overall), but the sale looks less prudent when one considers what Roeder is left with defensively - Steven Taylor; Titus Bramble; Celestine Babayaro; Stephen Carr; Peter Ramage; Craig Moore and Olivier Bernard. For a club with top four aspirations, that is simply not good enough.

 

Apparently there were unsuccessful bids for Jonathan Woodgate, Lucas Neill, Zat Knight and Robert Huth, but the transfer window was open for long enough for them to have done far more than the last-minute deal to bring in the out-of-contract Bernard, in a move that smacked of desperation. It also has to be questioned as to why they failed to attract the aforementioned defenders, with the likelihood being that Freddy Shepherd was far too concerned in wooing the likes of Damien Duff and Obafemi Martins to worry about a little thing like have a defence worthy of the name. Glamorous signings are all very well, but not to the detriment of the squad’s overall balance.

 

The recent long-term injury to Shay Given has only accentuated the problem, with Roeder now having to rely on perennial bench-warmer Steve Harper to cover for the excellent Irishman. To Roeder’s credit, his team has yet to be on the end of a mauling this term, but perhaps that is at least partly due to the fact that Newcastle are increasingly having to make sacrifices further forward in order to bolster the midfield in front of the fragile defence. The current situation is also likely to be a steep learning curve for young Taylor and Ramage, both of whom will hopefully come out the other side better players as a result.

 

Despite this, Roeder’s priorities still appear to lie in attack, having recently stated that, "By the time of the transfer window we have to be in a position to bring in a striker with power and presence", with reference to the news that Shola Ameobi is set to be sidelined in the New Year. Ameobi certainly offers a physical presence that will be missed, but with Martins, Giuseppe Rossi (probably on his way back to Old Trafford in January) and Albert Luque all available and the likes of Duff, Kieron Dyer, James Milner, Charles N’Zogbia and even Antoine Sibierski all capable of helping out on the attacking front, it does seem surprising that the defence seemed to be almost an afterthought, with Roeder going on to add, “We want a striker and we are looking for a defender too.” A defender? Just the one? That sounds less than encouraging.

 

Roeder will attract criticism from some quarters, but he has actually done a sterling job under the circumstances, with the main fault surely resting with the board. Few can seriously believe that the manager has free rein over the comings and goings at St James’s Park, with the transfer policy seemingly largely governed by Shepherd.

 

Until the club are shot of the current board, it is difficult to see them making the progress they are undoubtedly capable of. With the recent rejection of the £91 million offer from Belgravia Group (the Jersey-based investment group), it seems that Freddy and the dreamers will be in residence for a while yet.

 

David Hulott

6 October 2006

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

From Squarefootball.net.  David Hulott obviously hasn't been listening to NE5.

 

Now that's a good article.

 

FS fucked up yet again this season by not buying a new defense. If he did, we'd be up at the top, and able to maintain it. His previous errors could be forgiven (but not forgotten) and the Souness era could have been buried for good. Instead were still suffereing without a defense, and will struggle to attract in the Jan window, and end up with another Boumsong style deal.

 

That's if we've any money spare, if not, WTF were we doing buying Martins & Duff?

[Guest Gemmill]

I enjoyed the article. Why so many people cant accept NE5's point of view I dont know.

While I'd prefer someone else as our chairman, the points made out by NE5 are very much valid(even when said for the umpteenth time).

Shepherds reign hasnt been as big a failure as many people seem to think. Surely he has made mistakes, maybe more than one chairman should be allowed to do, but to say he has been a failure for not reaching the Keegan heights is way too simplistic. Its the black and white approach that i hate. Yes, you can say the article is very pro Shepherd, but I dont think its too much, especially when NE5 backs his opinions well.

There has been good times during the Shepherd reign, but not many are giving him credit for that.

 

Shepherd out!

 

 

 

 

The Chairman's main job is to appoint the right manager.  Robson aside, he's got every one of those decisions wrong.  And as has been pointed out elsewhere, appointing Robson was beyond obvious so Shepherd gets no credit for it.  If my gran had been chairman(woman) for a day she could have made the decision to appoint Robson too - it wasn't even a decision that needed making.  Every time he's been required to think and appoint someone through his own thought processes, he's fucked it up.

 

How many more failed appointments do we endure?  He is getting it all wrong time and again, and the "well it could be worse" defence that NE5 constantly falls back on is not good enough.

[Mowen]

Right, I'll give this a go.

 

NE5, I think it's fair to say that there will be few who disagree with your assertion that we are under the best board for many a year. We have done very well of late, and I guess that has spoilt us as fans, to a certain extent. However, where I feel your argument falls down a little is when you look at managers.

 

I believe (although I may be wrong) that you were one of those who wanted Bobby to leave earlier than he did. (Apologies if not true). Bobby was, as few can argue against, an excellent manager who took us forward and did a number of good things for the club. However, the reason people wanted him out was because he was starting to take them backwards again, and he was no longer what was best for NUFC.

 

Whilst I understand that chairmen and managers are not the same, do you not think it is conceivable that people could be thinking the same about Freddy? Great things have happened over the past 13 or so years, but do you not think that the appointments of Roeder and Souness could possibly be pointing to the fact that he's taken us as far as he can?

 

I'm not really sure which side I'm on at the moment - there seems to be solid arguments for each side - although when one side is proven to be better over the next ten years no doubt I'll be claiming that I was saying that all along  :winking:

[Dokko]

I enjoyed the article. Why so many people cant accept NE5's point of view I dont know.

While I'd prefer someone else as our chairman, the points made out by NE5 are very much valid(even when said for the umpteenth time).

Shepherds reign hasnt been as big a failure as many people seem to think. Surely he has made mistakes, maybe more than one chairman should be allowed to do, but to say he has been a failure for not reaching the Keegan heights is way too simplistic. Its the black and white approach that i hate. Yes, you can say the article is very pro Shepherd, but I dont think its too much, especially when NE5 backs his opinions well.

There has been good times during the Shepherd reign, but not many are giving him credit for that.

 

Shepherd out!

 

 

 

 

The Chairman's main job is to appoint the right manager.  Robson aside, he's got every one of those decisions wrong.  And as has been pointed out elsewhere, appointing Robson was beyond obvious so Shepherd gets no credit for it.  If my gran had been chairman(woman) for a day she could have made the decision to appoint Robson too - it wasn't even a decision that needed making.  Every time he's been required to think and appoint someone through his own thought processes, he's fucked it up.

 

How many more failed appointments do we endure?  He is getting it all wrong time and again, and the "well it could be worse" defence that NE5 constantly falls back on is not good enough.

 

One dimensional thinking each time.

 

Need to be better in defending, bring in KD.

 

Needs to be attacking again as were boring, bring in sexy football

 

Need to restore disipline, breing in angry-irate twat features who'll just make things worse.

 

Need to stabilse the club without taking a risk, GR is appointed.

 

Never thinking outside the box, never thinking of other areas, only the ones that currently has a problem.

 

He's done a pathetic job, and will continue to do so.

[Parky]

We haven't had a good manager in charge long enough...Simple Rob.