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If we get rid of Roeder...


Guest hindu times
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Guest hindu times

... where the hell is that going to get us?  :wullie:

 

I think the criticism of Roeder is beyond a joke really.

 

For me, we played some of our best football since the Tottenham game last year for the first 60 mins.

 

Then two stupid defensive mistakes, yet again, cost us the match. The players heads went down and in the end deserved to be beaten for being "confidence players".

 

To blame Roeder for the same players making the same mistakes for the umpteenth time is ridiculous.

 

And I'm sorry... all this shit about "well he knew the defence was shit... why didn't buy anyone?"....

 

Is it not a co-incidence that the last three managers have not managed to strengthen that position? It's plain to see that Shepherd stumps up the cash for the trophy players (Owen, Martins, Duff and Parker to some degree), but when it comes to positions that we really need (at least 2 or 3 players), he stumps up all of £2million for the whole lot. Or he goes to the other extreme and stumps up stupid sums for defenders who could have cost nowt 6 months earlier (a certain clumsy frenchman).

 

Every year, we don't get the players we need, and the one common factor is Shepherd.

 

For me, Dyers return, and Given's, and Bernard's cannot come fast enough, because say what you want... each one of them puts 100% into everything.

 

Also, did anyone else feel dead sorry for Emre yesterday? He put in one hell of a performance I thought, as he has a few times this season (to very little credit), and he looked absolutely gutted when the second goal went in. I think it would be a great shame if he goes.

 

PS. Roeder does deserve to be blamed for some things (i.e. the negative tactics against Man U, the poor team selection in that game), but to open the Post Match thread and see many of the first posts saying "Roeder Out", I find (although I've come to totally expect it on this board) totally ridiculous.

 

One last thing, for the people criticising him for picking Bramble... Taylor has been just as bad if not worse than him at points this season, so who exactly would you pick instead of him? 

 

 

 

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Guest Gemmill

Then two stupid defensive mistakes, yet again, cost us the match. The players heads went down and in the end deserved to be beaten for being "confidence players".

 

 

Is he not the man charged with coaching these defensive blunders out of them then?  I'm pretty sure that's his job.  If he didn't think he could coach the mistakes out of the player then his job is to replace them.  However you want to look at it, he's FAILED.

 

As for not stumping up cash for defenders - we made a last ditch attempt to get Huth which failed.  We were then told that he's the man Roeder had wanted all summer.  So a) the money was there, and b) we had supposedly identified him as a target.  So why did we wait til the last day of the window when he was about to sit down at his press conference at Boro?  Because manager and chairman are fucking incompetent.

 

Don't try and tell me that Roeder gets no blame for the shambolic transfer window and the fact that we don't have one proven defender at the club.  Because you're talking shit.

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Our defensive mistakes are completely Roeder's fault - he is the one that chose not to buy defenders, he is the one that continues to pick Bramble.

 

We are in a worse points position now than we were with Souness at this time last year - FACT.

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Hindu, did you think we shoudl have stuck with Souness as well?

 

Of course Roeder should go, he's not good enough.

 

No

 

Our defensive mistakes are completely Roeder's fault - he is the one that chose not to buy defenders, he is the one that continues to pick Bramble.

 

As I've argued elsewhere, do we have a better player than Bramble to bring into the team... on form alone?

 

And if it's all Roeders fault that we didn't buy defenders, then why do we ALWAYS fail in the transfer window (who's the common factor through all the managers)?

 

Yes - Bramble is the worst central defender we have.

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Hindu, did you think we shoudl have stuck with Souness as well?

 

Of course Roeder should go, he's not good enough.

 

No

 

Our defensive mistakes are completely Roeder's fault - he is the one that chose not to buy defenders, he is the one that continues to pick Bramble.

 

As I've argued elsewhere, do we have a better player than Bramble to bring into the team... on form alone?

 

And if it's all Roeders fault that we didn't buy defenders, then why do we ALWAYS fail in the transfer window (who's the common factor through all the managers)?

 

Give Taylor a run of games - he's done it with Bramble - the least Taylor deserves is a run and I am fully confident that we won't see the number of mistakes that Bramble makes.

 

We don't always fail in the tranfer market - I do remember a time getting Woodgate for a song.

 

That's a poor excuse for Roeder's inability to buy defenders - oh we didn't in the past so don't expect it now????  Nope - sorry, the weakness is more evident than ever before and to not address the problem tells me he is not good enough to be a manager of a EPL club.

 

Maybe Shepherd didn't want him buying defenders - if he was man enough he would have told Shepherd to get to f*ck and done what he wanted or resigned.

 

I don't think that was the case though, I just think he is a weak, weak manager who is way, way, way over his head!

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Is the question not 'Can we afford to get rid of Roeder?'

 

Not in monetary terms - he's probably on the smallest contract we've had a manager since Ozzie

 

But more of a case of who's next?

 

The fat man has managed to take us so far down in peoples eyes thatthe question is 'as poor as Glenn is, who better would take over?'

 

In the summer we had 2 top drawer candidates in Ottmar and O'Neill with a bunch behind them consisting of Mancini, Ranieri and Sam. If we couldn't/wouldn't appoint them then, what's changed now?

 

Who would we have now? Freds plan to get Shearer in can not happen this season, Southgate won't get permission from the premier league and neither would Al. Can you imagine Barnwells face if we tried to get another unqualified manager in (btw do Newcastle and Boro's starts vindicate the Pro License qualification?).

 

Fred seems to love the trophey signing, until Souness this was evident in his Managerial choices. Souness was the watershed, no top managers wanted to work with Fred. We now seem to have managed to get a manager more clueless than Clueless himself. Unbeliveable as Kammy would say.

 

So who would replace Roeder then?

 

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Oh don't get me wrong, I think we are stuck with Roeder as NOBODY in their right mind will come here at the moment.

 

We are back at this precarious point again, going round in circles.

 

Roeder is not good enough, he is as bad as I have always thought and his previous record suggested but this situation ultimately is the fault of one man and one man alone and it aint Roeder.

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Roeder messed up huge time yesterday in team selection.

 

Can we blame Roeder for shambles's mistakes ? yes we bloody can because he bloody picked him when most of us woulden't  have and Nobby, car aswell and HE is responsible for our defenive personel (which is not acceptable).

 

Ramage bar the glaring miss was actually pretty decent and as for some trying to make Emre our scapegoat, they must be off their rockers as he was probably our best player.

 

Roeder (for his team selection, tactically and half time talk), bramble, car and solano were particularly bad yesterday. 

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Guest Billy Whitehurst

The performance yesterday reminded me of performances under Souness, no discernible tactics and no real belief that they could get back into the game once they went down.

 

Surely, given how effective Bolton are from set peices, Roeder should have instructed the players not to give away silly free-kicks but we did this time after time. This is basic stuff and we just played into their hands. We just look so disjointed at times and really don't look like a team.

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i think we should stick with roeder for now - we wont get anyone decent in instead.

 

as for ericsson - no fucking way!

 

I'm not advocating him, just throwing it out there as an idea...

 

I'm beginning to think Roeder is on borrowed time, so this sort of speculation might become the norm sooner rather than later!

 

And like you said, the options appear to be very limited

 

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Guest Knightrider

I thought we were average in the first half, we looked pretty but how poor were Bolton? They backed off and gave us room to play, a better team would have thrashed them so we weren't that good, we only registered one strike on goal and that was a penalty in that "spell".

 

RE Roeder we can't keep sacking managers, we need to cut the root of the problem out from the source, before we look at the manager.

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Is the question not 'Can we afford to get rid of Roeder?'

 

Not in monetary terms - he's probably on the smallest contract we've had a manager since Ozzie

 

But more of a case of who's next?

 

The fat man has managed to take us so far down in peoples eyes thatthe question is 'as poor as Glenn is, who better would take over?'

 

In the summer we had 2 top drawer candidates in Ottmar and O'Neill with a bunch behind them consisting of Mancini, Ranieri and Sam. If we couldn't/wouldn't appoint them then, what's changed now?

 

Who would we have now? Freds plan to get Shearer in can not happen this season, Southgate won't get permission from the premier league and neither would Al. Can you imagine Barnwells face if we tried to get another unqualified manager in (btw do Newcastle and Boro's starts vindicate the Pro License qualification?).

 

Fred seems to love the trophey signing, until Souness this was evident in his Managerial choices. Souness was the watershed, no top managers wanted to work with Fred. We now seem to have managed to get a manager more clueless than Clueless himself. Unbeliveable as Kammy would say.

 

So who would replace Roeder then?

 

First point - in bold red. I was thinking exactly the same thing last night. I bet Barnwell is feeling pretty vindicated at the moment, which is fine by me, particularly if Shepherd is now having to eat humble pie on the matter.

 

Second point - who would replace Roeder? Two things:

1. We've become a joke to prospective managers, well certainly to the top echelon of world-class or European class managers now I would imagine. FFS reputation as a Chairman is not one which instantly attracts managers and inspires them...although I still believe that Newcastle United remains a place many aspiring, up and coming managers would be interested in (even with FFS at the helm). If we could get someone like Ade Boothroyd or Mike Newell then fair enough I'd say - provided that this time we install a new management structure with a Director of Football etc. Alternatively, here's one to ponder - what about Big Ron. I'm actually only half-joking about this suggestion too. Get in someone with real experience to sit alongside Roeder, Big Ron or George Graham - someone of that ilk. I dunno, it's just a thought.

2. Was it just my imagination or does anyone else recall the media over the summer stating that this was FFS last chance to get things right with his choice of manager? As the whole thing starts to unravel with Roeder, I'm still hoping all the while that it is spelling out the end of the Shepherd era.

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Beaering in mind 'the root' is here to stay for the forseable future, getting in a 'proper' manager is our only choice. Tbh are there any examples of a caretaker promoted from within who has gone on to get long term success? I can only think of it working in the old Liverpool bootroom days if at all.

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Is the question not 'Can we afford to get rid of Roeder?'

 

Not in monetary terms - he's probably on the smallest contract we've had a manager since Ozzie

 

But more of a case of who's next?

 

The fat man has managed to take us so far down in peoples eyes thatthe question is 'as poor as Glenn is, who better would take over?'

 

In the summer we had 2 top drawer candidates in Ottmar and O'Neill with a bunch behind them consisting of Mancini, Ranieri and Sam. If we couldn't/wouldn't appoint them then, what's changed now?

 

Who would we have now? Freds plan to get Shearer in can not happen this season, Southgate won't get permission from the premier league and neither would Al. Can you imagine Barnwells face if we tried to get another unqualified manager in (btw do Newcastle and Boro's starts vindicate the Pro License qualification?).

 

Fred seems to love the trophey signing, until Souness this was evident in his Managerial choices. Souness was the watershed, no top managers wanted to work with Fred. We now seem to have managed to get a manager more clueless than Clueless himself. Unbeliveable as Kammy would say.

 

So who would replace Roeder then?

 

 

As usual there will be no plan B, beyond a desperate phone call to Shearer when the short list's been whittled down to Lee Clark, Ron Atkinson and Dave Basset.

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Then two stupid defensive mistakes, yet again, cost us the match. The players heads went down and in the end deserved to be beaten for being "confidence players".

 

 

Is he not the man charged with coaching these defensive blunders out of them then?  I'm pretty sure that's his job.  If he didn't think he could coach the mistakes out of the player then his job is to replace them.  However you want to look at it, he's FAILED.

 

 

 

mebbe "How to coach defenders" was the bit of the coaching badge he didn't pass ?

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Then two stupid defensive mistakes, yet again, cost us the match. The players heads went down and in the end deserved to be beaten for being "confidence players".

 

 

Is he not the man charged with coaching these defensive blunders out of them then?  I'm pretty sure that's his job.  If he didn't think he could coach the mistakes out of the player then his job is to replace them.  However you want to look at it, he's FAILED.

 

 

 

mebbe "How to coach defenders" was the bit of the coaching badge he didn't pass ?

 

:lol:  I think he may have skipped the "how to sign defenders" bit as well

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Guest Gemmill

It's actually the coping with the media bit that he hasn't done iirc.  Which may explain why he feels the need to lie compulsively whenever he speaks to them.  I can just see him turning up on the first day and the lecturer saying:

 

"Today's lesson:  why telling the fans a player is in the form of his life when it is plain to everyone that he isn't very good at all is a bad thing"

 

Imagine the look on his face as he suddenly realises where he went wrong.

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There's a worrying sign of the same pattern as emerged under Dalglish, Gullit and Souness repeating itself.

 

Managing this club isn't an easy job. The expectations are high, but there's no recent record of success to breed any real confidence. When things start to go wrong, the pressure increases enormously and that gets to the players.

 

Given that situation, the Chairman needs to make every effort to find the best possible manager available, and to back his manager's judgement without interference. I don't think that's been happening.

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Fred to 'eat Humble Pie..' Love it, Love it - after all, the rest of the Pies have already gone, so Humble Pie is fine - any port in a storm..!!

 

Seriously, people defending Roeder - you despair at times. Its no wonder FS gets away with everything he has done in the past few years..

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