Pablo Aimar joins Benfica

[Dave]

Why are the 'old board' relevant to anything at all? They've fucked off (having of their own free will sold their shares) to Spain/retirement/counting their money and so forth. They have nothing at all to do with Newcastle football now so who gives a toss about them?

 

People who have nothing better to do/say/post.

[NE5]

Nobody in their right mind could argue that we've been anything better than mediocre since Shepherd sacked Bobby.

 

Compared to what?

 

In terms of the level of football at which we are competing, or attempting to compete.

 

Obviously, in terms of the Champions League, we are worse than mediocre. Compared to Blyth Spartans, though, we're pretty good.

 

So not compared to the Premier League then?

 

Au contraire. I said in terms of the level of football at which we are competing -- that certainly includes the Premier League.

 

So competing as an 'average' Premier league side this year and finishing 7th would be a 'mediocre' season?

 

Well wait and see the reaction if we finish 7th this season.

 

Also, when we WON the Fairs Cup in 1969, we qualified in the first place by finishing  a mediocre 10th. And only finished higher than that 3 times until 1994.

 

Fact.

 

 

[ChezGiven]

Why are the 'old board' relevant to anything at all? They've fucked off (having of their own free will sold their shares) to Spain/retirement/counting their money and so forth. They have nothing at all to do with Newcastle football now so who gives a toss about them?

 

 

 

Aye, our history isnt important at all. To anything. Or any debate. About anything.

 

Ffs.

[NE5]

So people are arguing that being in Europe didnt make us a good team?

 

I'm either deleting my account or joining Simon Jordan in Marbella. 

 

Kind of yes.

I just dont think the Souness/Roeder team that got into Europe is a side that is going to go down in memory as one of our greats.

 

I was in a random bar last night in Paris, some lad starts talking, asks where i am from, i answer and he explodes into passion about a night in Marseille in 2004. The lad was for OM tbf but it still shows our class and achievement. We were on the wrong end of things of course....

 

Am i meant to forget who was chairman at the time for the sake of it...?

nobody mentioned the chairman...he was chairman when we went in the champs league and we were a good team then.

Isnt that the sub-text?

no

You've forgotten what its about then. Alzheimers probably...

the conversation has moved on. check the OP for proof

The OP is about Aimar, Dopey.

and now it's not the subject of conversation. for a while the NE5 debate was on, but not now, now it's about what constitutes a good team and wether purely being in euro competition makes you a good team no matter how you got there.

 

Well this still stands then,

 

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=53319.msg1401595#msg1401595

 

no

 

So you're comparing Roeder's 7th to Cardiff and Millwall?

 

Get a grip.

i used fulham as a closer comparisson. cardiff and millwall were used  to prove that just because you are in the uefa cupo doesn't mean you are good.

 

Well what sort of point is that? If we'd qualified in the same manner it would be relevant, the fact is we were competing as top premiership club in each season we did qualify. Not as some wildcard cup-final appearers.

you may wish to check where we finished in the league to secure our last intertoto slot.

Why would i when i've already given the example of Roeder's (mediocre) 7th?

i'll counter with souness's 14th

 

I'm not sure there's any beating a Souness' 14th.  The pair of you can stop now.

 

Golden era of the 1970's was 15th for 3 consecutive seasons

 

 

[Guest Badhead]

Why are the 'old board' relevant to anything at all? They've f***ed off (having of their own free will sold their shares) to Spain/retirement/counting their money and so forth. They have nothing at all to do with Newcastle football now so who gives a toss about them?

 

 

 

Aye, our history isnt important at all. To anything. Or any debate. About anything.

 

Ffs.

 

Where in my post did I say our history wasn't important?

[madras]

Nobody in their right mind could argue that we've been anything better than mediocre since Shepherd sacked Bobby.

 

Compared to what?

 

In terms of the level of football at which we are competing, or attempting to compete.

 

Obviously, in terms of the Champions League, we are worse than mediocre. Compared to Blyth Spartans, though, we're pretty good.

 

So not compared to the Premier League then?

 

Au contraire. I said in terms of the level of football at which we are competing -- that certainly includes the Premier League.

 

So competing as an 'average' Premier league side this year and finishing 7th would be a 'mediocre' season?

 

Well wait and see the reaction if we finish 7th this season.

 

Also, when we WON the Fairs Cup in 1969, we qualified in the first place by finishing  a mediocre 10th. And only finished higher than that 3 times until 1994.

 

Fact.

 

 

7th would be an improvemnet...in the way that 4th to 13th in 5 years isn't an improvement.

 

again...no-one denies that shepherd done well and presided over some good times...what i am saying is he stopped doing it, shit decisions lead to us going backwards. i dont care if he had been chairman and we had won 10 league titles off the trot previous to appointing souness, he was taking us backwards.

[ChezGiven]

Why are the 'old board' relevant to anything at all? They've f***ed off (having of their own free will sold their shares) to Spain/retirement/counting their money and so forth. They have nothing at all to do with Newcastle football now so who gives a toss about them?

 

 

 

Aye, our history isnt important at all. To anything. Or any debate. About anything.

 

Ffs.

 

Where in my post did I say our history wasn't important?

 

I thought the whole of your post implied that. 

[NE5]

So people are arguing that being in Europe didnt make us a good team?

 

I'm either deleting my account or joining Simon Jordan in Marbella. 

millwall in the uefa cup not so long......were they a good team ?

 

do it 7 times in a decade and you may have a point

 

 

does it mean if you play in europe you're a good team. also out of that 7 was 1 through the intertoto and two after finishing 13th ?

 

it basically means that if you finish 13th or thereabouts, then the powers that be at  a club like Newcastle ought to be showing the basic ambition to do a whole lot better.

 

But that depends on the standards you set

 

On the other hand, we could lower our standards, and wait for the 52000 crowds to continue paying to watch the expected mediocrity.

 

 

[OzzieMandias]

Nobody in their right mind could argue that we've been anything better than mediocre since Shepherd sacked Bobby.

 

Compared to what?

 

In terms of the level of football at which we are competing, or attempting to compete.

 

Obviously, in terms of the Champions League, we are worse than mediocre. Compared to Blyth Spartans, though, we're pretty good.

 

So not compared to the Premier League then?

 

Au contraire. I said in terms of the level of football at which we are competing -- that certainly includes the Premier League.

 

So competing as an 'average' Premier league side this year and finishing 7th would be a 'mediocre' season?

 

In the period under discussion it was our best finish by some considerable distance -- our only one in the top half of the table -- and it wasn't good enough to qualify for the UEFA.

 

Yep, that's certainly a picture of mediocrity in the post-Bobby years.

 

You said we'd never been better than mediocre and finishing 7th this year would be more than that. You cant have it both ways i'm afraid.

 

My apologies. I read your post too quickly and took it as referring to our 7th place finish under Roeder -- highlight of the last five years.

 

To answer your question properly, I'd say a 7th place finish next season would be good in terms of our recent league placings, but still mediocre in the wider scheme of things. It represents nothing better than the upper end of mid-table.

[Dave]

Why are the 'old board' relevant to anything at all? They've fucked off (having of their own free will sold their shares) to Spain/retirement/counting their money and so forth. They have nothing at all to do with Newcastle football now so who gives a toss about them?

 

 

 

Aye, our history isnt important at all. To anything. Or any debate. About anything.

 

Ffs.

 

Nearly as good as the 'Rooney is shit' one, nice.

[madras]

So people are arguing that being in Europe didnt make us a good team?

 

I'm either deleting my account or joining Simon Jordan in Marbella. 

millwall in the uefa cup not so long......were they a good team ?

 

do it 7 times in a decade and you may have a point

 

 

does it mean if you play in europe you're a good team. also out of that 7 was 1 through the intertoto and two after finishing 13th ?

 

it basically means that if you finish 13th or thereabouts, then the powers that be at  a club like Newcastle ought to be showing the basic ambition to do a whole lot better.

 

But that depends on the standards you set

 

On the other hand, we could lower our standards, and wait for the 52000 crowds to continue paying to watch the expected mediocrity.

 

 

what ambition..souness-roeder then allardyce/ it's like me letting my 4 year old daughter do the household finances. rank bad decisions! how many times have i said i'd rather keegan with 20 million than those 3 with 50 million....wouldn't you ?

[ChezGiven]

Nobody in their right mind could argue that we've been anything better than mediocre since Shepherd sacked Bobby.

 

Compared to what?

 

In terms of the level of football at which we are competing, or attempting to compete.

 

Obviously, in terms of the Champions League, we are worse than mediocre. Compared to Blyth Spartans, though, we're pretty good.

 

So not compared to the Premier League then?

 

Au contraire. I said in terms of the level of football at which we are competing -- that certainly includes the Premier League.

 

So competing as an 'average' Premier league side this year and finishing 7th would be a 'mediocre' season?

 

In the period under discussion it was our best finish by some considerable distance -- our only one in the top half of the table -- and it wasn't good enough to qualify for the UEFA.

 

Yep, that's certainly a picture of mediocrity in the post-Bobby years.

 

You said we'd never been better than mediocre and finishing 7th this year would be more than that. You cant have it both ways i'm afraid.

 

My apologies. I read your post too quickly and took it as referring to our 7th place finish under Roeder -- highlight of the last five years.

 

To answer your question properly, I'd say a 7th place finish next season would be good in terms of our recent league placings, but still mediocre in the wider scheme of things. It represents nothing better than the upper end of mid-table.

 

Well here's hoping for mediocrity at the end of this coming season then.

[NE5]

Nobody in their right mind could argue that we've been anything better than mediocre since Shepherd sacked Bobby.

 

Compared to what?

 

In terms of the level of football at which we are competing, or attempting to compete.

 

Obviously, in terms of the Champions League, we are worse than mediocre. Compared to Blyth Spartans, though, we're pretty good.

 

So not compared to the Premier League then?

 

Au contraire. I said in terms of the level of football at which we are competing -- that certainly includes the Premier League.

 

So competing as an 'average' Premier league side this year and finishing 7th would be a 'mediocre' season?

 

In the period under discussion it was our best finish by some considerable distance -- our only one in the top half of the table -- and it wasn't good enough to qualify for the UEFA.

 

Yep, that's certainly a picture of mediocrity in the post-Bobby years.

 

You said we'd never been better than mediocre and finishing 7th this year would be more than that. You cant have it both ways i'm afraid.

 

My apologies. I read your post too quickly and took it as referring to our 7th place finish under Roeder -- highlight of the last five years.

 

To answer your question properly, I'd say a 7th place finish next season would be good in terms of our recent league placings, but still mediocre in the wider scheme of things. It represents nothing better than the upper end of mid-table.

 

Did you answer the question I asked you earlier ie did you have a season ticket when we were truly mediocre ? A simple yes or no will suffice ?

 

 

[madras]

Nobody in their right mind could argue that we've been anything better than mediocre since Shepherd sacked Bobby.

 

Compared to what?

 

In terms of the level of football at which we are competing, or attempting to compete.

 

Obviously, in terms of the Champions League, we are worse than mediocre. Compared to Blyth Spartans, though, we're pretty good.

 

So not compared to the Premier League then?

 

Au contraire. I said in terms of the level of football at which we are competing -- that certainly includes the Premier League.

 

So competing as an 'average' Premier league side this year and finishing 7th would be a 'mediocre' season?

 

In the period under discussion it was our best finish by some considerable distance -- our only one in the top half of the table -- and it wasn't good enough to qualify for the UEFA.

 

Yep, that's certainly a picture of mediocrity in the post-Bobby years.

 

You said we'd never been better than mediocre and finishing 7th this year would be more than that. You cant have it both ways i'm afraid.

 

My apologies. I read your post too quickly and took it as referring to our 7th place finish under Roeder -- highlight of the last five years.

 

To answer your question properly, I'd say a 7th place finish next season would be good in terms of our recent league placings, but still mediocre in the wider scheme of things. It represents nothing better than the upper end of mid-table.

 

Did you answer the question I asked you earlier ie did you have a season ticket when we were truly mediocre ? A simple yes or no will suffice ?

 

 

he did answer it .

[NE5]

So people are arguing that being in Europe didnt make us a good team?

 

I'm either deleting my account or joining Simon Jordan in Marbella. 

millwall in the uefa cup not so long......were they a good team ?

 

do it 7 times in a decade and you may have a point

 

 

does it mean if you play in europe you're a good team. also out of that 7 was 1 through the intertoto and two after finishing 13th ?

 

it basically means that if you finish 13th or thereabouts, then the powers that be at  a club like Newcastle ought to be showing the basic ambition to do a whole lot better.

 

But that depends on the standards you set

 

On the other hand, we could lower our standards, and wait for the 52000 crowds to continue paying to watch the expected mediocrity.

 

 

what ambition..souness-roeder then allardyce/ it's like me letting my 4 year old daughter do the household finances. rank bad decisions! how many times have i said i'd rather keegan with 20 million than those 3 with 50 million....wouldn't you ?

 

Sorry but I'm talking about qualifying for europe 7 times in a decade. You don't do that if you don't have some sort of ambition. Do you think Ashley is showing this ambition ?

 

 

[Syrette]

Got to love NE5 of all people moaning at someone else for not answering a simple question.

 

Indeed I might as well ask again...

 

 

do you believe everything you read in the press 

 

Do you?

 

 

[NE5]

Nobody in their right mind could argue that we've been anything better than mediocre since Shepherd sacked Bobby.

 

Compared to what?

 

In terms of the level of football at which we are competing, or attempting to compete.

 

Obviously, in terms of the Champions League, we are worse than mediocre. Compared to Blyth Spartans, though, we're pretty good.

 

So not compared to the Premier League then?

 

Au contraire. I said in terms of the level of football at which we are competing -- that certainly includes the Premier League.

 

So competing as an 'average' Premier league side this year and finishing 7th would be a 'mediocre' season?

 

In the period under discussion it was our best finish by some considerable distance -- our only one in the top half of the table -- and it wasn't good enough to qualify for the UEFA.

 

Yep, that's certainly a picture of mediocrity in the post-Bobby years.

 

You said we'd never been better than mediocre and finishing 7th this year would be more than that. You cant have it both ways i'm afraid.

 

My apologies. I read your post too quickly and took it as referring to our 7th place finish under Roeder -- highlight of the last five years.

 

To answer your question properly, I'd say a 7th place finish next season would be good in terms of our recent league placings, but still mediocre in the wider scheme of things. It represents nothing better than the upper end of mid-table.

 

Did you answer the question I asked you earlier ie did you have a season ticket when we were truly mediocre ? A simple yes or no will suffice ?

 

 

he did answer it .

 

the key phrase is "truly mediocre".

 

 

[ChezGiven]

Why are the 'old board' relevant to anything at all? They've fucked off (having of their own free will sold their shares) to Spain/retirement/counting their money and so forth. They have nothing at all to do with Newcastle football now so who gives a toss about them?

 

 

 

Aye, our history isnt important at all. To anything. Or any debate. About anything.

 

Ffs.

 

Nearly as good as the 'Rooney is shit' one, nice.

 

I thought that last one was restrained.

[madras]

So people are arguing that being in Europe didnt make us a good team?

 

I'm either deleting my account or joining Simon Jordan in Marbella. 

millwall in the uefa cup not so long......were they a good team ?

 

do it 7 times in a decade and you may have a point

 

 

does it mean if you play in europe you're a good team. also out of that 7 was 1 through the intertoto and two after finishing 13th ?

 

it basically means that if you finish 13th or thereabouts, then the powers that be at  a club like Newcastle ought to be showing the basic ambition to do a whole lot better.

 

But that depends on the standards you set

 

On the other hand, we could lower our standards, and wait for the 52000 crowds to continue paying to watch the expected mediocrity.

 

 

what ambition..souness-roeder then allardyce/ it's like me letting my 4 year old daughter do the household finances. rank bad decisions! how many times have i said i'd rather keegan with 20 million than those 3 with 50 million....wouldn't you ?

 

Sorry but I'm talking about qualifying for europe 7 times in a decade. You don't do that if you don't have some sort of ambition. Do you think Ashley is showing this ambition ?

 

 

what ambition was shown by appointing those managers...none and rank bad decsion making if he thought it was.

 

please for fucks sake read on all the posts i've typed on this about what shepherd HAD done...BUT HE WAS TAKING US BACKWARDS

[Dave]

please for fucks sake read on all the posts i've typed on this about what shepherd HAD done...BUT HE WAS TAKING US BACKWARDS

 

What NE5 sees. You should know this by now.

[Guest Badhead]

Why are the 'old board' relevant to anything at all? They've f***ed off (having of their own free will sold their shares) to Spain/retirement/counting their money and so forth. They have nothing at all to do with Newcastle football now so who gives a toss about them?

 

 

 

Aye, our history isnt important at all. To anything. Or any debate. About anything.

 

Ffs.

 

Where in my post did I say our history wasn't important?

 

I thought the whole of your post implied that. 

 

You misunderstood my post in that case, or I didn't make my point as well as I might have. Whatever. I read this thread as I have a few others and was struck by how often discussion on here comes down to comparing the Hall/Shepherd era with Ashley, and it strikes me as pointless. I've been going since the early seventies (not every game, I'm not a Soopafan) but my main interest is in what happens next season, not last, or ten years ago, or thirty-five.

[NE5]

So people are arguing that being in Europe didnt make us a good team?

 

I'm either deleting my account or joining Simon Jordan in Marbella. 

millwall in the uefa cup not so long......were they a good team ?

 

do it 7 times in a decade and you may have a point

 

 

does it mean if you play in europe you're a good team. also out of that 7 was 1 through the intertoto and two after finishing 13th ?

 

it basically means that if you finish 13th or thereabouts, then the powers that be at  a club like Newcastle ought to be showing the basic ambition to do a whole lot better.

 

But that depends on the standards you set

 

On the other hand, we could lower our standards, and wait for the 52000 crowds to continue paying to watch the expected mediocrity.

 

 

what ambition..souness-roeder then allardyce/ it's like me letting my 4 year old daughter do the household finances. rank bad decisions! how many times have i said i'd rather keegan with 20 million than those 3 with 50 million....wouldn't you ?

 

Sorry but I'm talking about qualifying for europe 7 times in a decade. You don't do that if you don't have some sort of ambition. Do you think Ashley is showing this ambition ?

 

 

what ambition was shown by appointing those managers...none and rank bad decsion making if he thought it was.

 

please for fucks sake read on all the posts i've typed on this about what shepherd HAD done...BUT HE WAS TAKING US BACKWARDS

 

oh dear.

 

The board appoint the managers. Not ONE person. The major shareholders simply don't let a single other person make the most important decision on their own.

 

How many times does this need to be said ?

 

The Halls and Shepherd appointed the managers, between 1992 and 2007. That is Keegan, Dalglish, Gullit, Robson, Souness, Roeder and Allardyce.

 

Understand ?

 

And - in my opinion the ex board understood that to reach the champions league positions,  that you need to back their managers, and punch the weight of the club with the 2nd biggest [now 3rd] crowd [and the fanbase to go with it] in the country. They had showed they understood this by actuallly capitalising on it. So why would they not have done it again ?

 

As Chez Given says, all you are spouting is blind optimism that Ashley will match it. He's done nothing or even said anything to give you such optimism, and are using personal dislike to taint your judgement.

 

I've said my piece, and sadly the only thing that will change my mind is Ashley himself, if he starts backing his manager and showing he has the desire to succeed.

 

Is this easy enough to understand ?

 

 

[NE5]

please for fucks sake read on all the posts i've typed on this about what shepherd HAD done...BUT HE WAS TAKING US BACKWARDS

 

What NE5 sees. You should know this by now.

 

constructive comment and factual information in prevous post Dave

 

 

[Dave]

You just proved it, thanks.

[NE5]

You just proved it, thanks.

 

proved what ?

 

i think that this thread has proved that some people simply don't have a clue, to be honest, because [in one perfect example] they are slating finishing 7th in the league [a position achieved only twice in 30 years prior to 1992] and you can bet your life that if we finish 7th this coming season will be quite happy with it.