Saviola on loan?

[fredbob]

i think people are underestimating the importance of a big man. Surely people can see the necessity of having a player who can hold up the ball and give the midfield a chance to join in the attack. We cant play 100% of the game on the floor and there has to be someone who is able to hold up the ball against big strong defenders.

 

To think we witnessed so many years of one of the best ever players who could hold up a ball and watch all the oppurtunities and times his input was vital and still think that a big man isnt necessary.

 

With a front 3 man of sav, martin and owen it'd be akin to a midfield of lennon, bentley, modric and dos santos - pure shit.

[Tooj]

i think people are underestimating the importance of a big man. Surely people can see the necessity of having a player who can hold up the ball and give the midfield a chance to join in the attack. We cant play 100% of the game on the floor and there has to be someone who is able to hold up the ball against big strong defenders.

 

To think we witnessed so many years of one of the best ever players who could hold up a ball and watch all the oppurtunities and times his input was vital and still think that a big man isnt necessary.

 

We never needed such a player when we had Beardsley and Cole.

[madras]

I'd prefer keegan to go with...

 

.................Owen

.......Saviola...Martins

 

It would help address our biggest problem which is the gap between midfield and attack.

 

Opposition defenders would be absolutely terrified of the thought of such pace running at them. Owen excluded.

with owen it's movement and nouse.........even scarier than raw pace.

 

 

i wish martins would use his pace more. at times he's too polite about it,as if he feels it's unfair to use it .

[Dave]

With a front 3 man of sav, martin and owen it'd be akin to a midfield of lennon, bentley, modric and dos santos - pure shit.

 

Do you really believe that?

[Baggio]

i think people are underestimating the importance of a big man. Surely people can see the necessity of having a player who can hold up the ball and give the midfield a chance to join in the attack. We cant play 100% of the game on the floor and there has to be someone who is able to hold up the ball against big strong defenders.

 

To think we witnessed so many years of one of the best ever players who could hold up a ball and watch all the oppurtunities and times his input was vital and still think that a big man isnt necessary.

 

We never needed such a player when we had Beardsley and Cole.

 

Just about to say that.

 

I don't buy into the myth that you need a big man to hold the ball up to take pressure off your defence either, a team of players that can all do the basics well and help with ball retention is worth far more than a big man that can buy you a few seconds, Arsenal have done it for years.

 

I think it's what Keegan's looking for in players too, Guthrie didn't cost much but because he can do all of the basics well means he'll fit in well in a good passing team.

[Guest]

I'd prefer keegan to go with...

 

.................Owen

.......Saviola...Martins

 

It would help address our biggest problem which is the gap between midfield and attack.

 

Opposition defenders would be absolutely terrified of the thought of such pace running at them. Owen excluded.

with owen it's movement and nouse.........even scarier than raw pace.

 

 

i wish martins would use his pace more. at times he's too polite about it,as if he feels it's unfair to use it .

 

Yep, I think defenders would be more wary of Owen's runs into the box than Martins' raw pace.

[fredbob]

i think people are underestimating the importance of a big man. Surely people can see the necessity of having a player who can hold up the ball and give the midfield a chance to join in the attack. We cant play 100% of the game on the floor and there has to be someone who is able to hold up the ball against big strong defenders.

 

To think we witnessed so many years of one of the best ever players who could hold up a ball and watch all the oppurtunities and times his input was vital and still think that a big man isnt necessary.

 

We never needed such a player when we had Beardsley and Cole.

 

Cole and Bearsdley were completely different type of players who posed 2 different threats to defenders, Saviola, Martins and Owen are pretty similar in how they pose threats to the opposite defence, ie with pace, movement. A defender and opposite manager could safely go into a game setting up tactic in accordance to our front 3 - i,e 3 men in midfield , no height up front, close down as much as possible - force into a long ball game.

 

If you have that for 38 games a seaon, you;ll get sussed very very quickly.

 

With B and C we also had 2 attacking wingers to add to contention....

[fredbob]

With a front 3 man of sav, martin and owen it'd be akin to a midfield of lennon, bentley, modric and dos santos - pure s***.

 

Do you really believe that?

 

I'll remeber to put the wink in next time.

 

But to be fair, my point is that the quality is there and individually they have excellent quality but they're "easily" combated becasue the lack of variation.

 

EDIT :

[TRon]

How did Spain win the Euros incidentally? They pissed on most teams big and small.

[Cajun]

i think people are underestimating the importance of a big man. Surely people can see the necessity of having a player who can hold up the ball and give the midfield a chance to join in the attack. We cant play 100% of the game on the floor and there has to be someone who is able to hold up the ball against big strong defenders.

 

To think we witnessed so many years of one of the best ever players who could hold up a ball and watch all the oppurtunities and times his input was vital and still think that a big man isnt necessary.

 

We never needed such a player when we had Beardsley and Cole.

 

Cole and Bearsdley were completely different type of players who posed 2 different threats to defenders, Saviola, Martins and Owen are pretty similar in how they pose threats to the opposite defence, ie with pace, movement. A defender and opposite manager could safely go into a game setting up tactic in accordance to our front 3 - i,e 3 men in midfield , no height up front, close down as much as possible - force into a long ball game.

 

If you have that for 38 games a seaon, you;ll get sussed very very quickly.

 

With B and C we also had 2 attacking wingers to add to contention....

 

Don't forget the unpredictability of wor Shola if he is still here.

[Baggio]

How did Spain win the Euros incidentally? They pissed on most teams big and small.

 

And Barca winning the CL with Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Messi up top.

[Dave]

In league football, from Wikipedia ().

 

Michael Owen: 150 goals in 293 appearances.

Obafemi Martins: 49 goals in 154 appearances.

Javier Saviola: 111 goals in 270 appearances.

Total: 310 goals in 717 appearances.

 

How anyone can argue against those combined statistics is beyond me.

[TRon]

How did Spain win the Euros incidentally? They pissed on most teams big and small.

 

And Barca winning the CL with Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Messi up top.

 

..and Man U winning the ultimate physical Premier league with midgets like Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez for that matter?

 

 

[Cajun]

Ronaldo is about 6ft1 isn't he?

 

Point still stands though

[Dave]

With a front 3 man of sav, martin and owen it'd be akin to a midfield of lennon, bentley, modric and dos santos - pure s***.

 

Do you really believe that?

 

I'll remeber to put the wink in next time.

 

But to be fair, my point is that the quality is there and individually they have excellent quality but they're "easily" combated becasue the lack of variation.

 

EDIT :

 

I disagree, I think the threat of those three on the pitch at the same time would properly shit teams up. Not only that, they'd create gaps for other players, so preoccupied would the other team be with them.

[TRon]

Ronaldo is about 6ft1 isn't he?

 

Point still stands though

 

6'1" on the wing aye. A bit like Jonas rather than Viduka for some who may not have got the point 

[Cajun]

With teams like Bolton doubling even tripling up on Jonas what the hell would they do with Martins, Saviola and Owen also in the team.

 

Not enough player on the pitch for that action baby.

[Alberto2005]

With teams like Bolton doubling even tripling up on Jonas what the hell would they do with Martins, Saviola and Owen also in the team.

 

Not enough player on the pitch for that action baby.

And with Milner supplying the creativity aswell!

[Baggio]

If we could sign Saviola, a midfielder that can open teams up (Arda?) and an attacking fullback (Pocognoli?) we would be unstoppable against 8-10 teams in the league and would pick up enough points from them to easily put us in the European places.

[Wullie]

How did Spain win the Euros incidentally? They pissed on most teams big and small.

 

And Barca winning the CL with Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Messi up top.

 

..and Man U winning the ultimate physical Premier league with midgets like Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez for that matter?

 

Rooney's a fucking battering ram though.

[Dr Venkman]

 

How did Spain win the Euros incidentally? They pissed on most teams big and small.

 

And Barca winning the CL with Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Messi up top.

 

..and Man U winning the ultimate physical Premier league with midgets like Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez for that matter?

 

Rooney's a fucking battering ram though.

 

for all his diving ronaldo is a very physical player, he can more than hold his own

[Alberto2005]

How did Spain win the Euros incidentally? They pissed on most teams big and small.

 

And Barca winning the CL with Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Messi up top.

 

..and Man U winning the ultimate physical Premier league with midgets like Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez for that matter?

 

Rooney's a fucking battering ram though.

Ronaldo and Tevez are very strong.

[Cajun]

Martins is strong, he just needs to improve his touch and intelligence.

 

Or we could use Smith

[TRon]

How did Spain win the Euros incidentally? They pissed on most teams big and small.

 

And Barca winning the CL with Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Messi up top.

 

..and Man U winning the ultimate physical Premier league with midgets like Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez for that matter?

 

Rooney's a fucking battering ram though.

Ronaldo and Tevez are very strong.

 

If you want a battering ram there are better options though.

[johnnypd]

How did Spain win the Euros incidentally? They pissed on most teams big and small.

 

And Barca winning the CL with Eto'o, Ronaldinho and Messi up top.

 

madras said we didnt need 'such a player' with beardsley and cole, that misses the point - beardsley was 'such a player'. to put it simply, if we had two andy coles up front, we'd be crying out for a Beardsley type, and if we had two Beardsley's upfront, we'd be in a superb position to exploit an andy cole type striker.

 

feels like talking to a brick wall here sometimes but the phrase 'big target man' is a bit of a red herring.

 

what we need is someone who can hold on to the ball, often with his back to goal, and link well with the midfield and other forwards and beardsley was world class at this, as was David Villa for spain in the Euros, as was Eto'o for Barca, or Tevez at man utd for instance and he's hardly tall or great in the air. whether the player we bring in is of the Drogba variety, a big, fast imposing striker, or a more creative type like Berbatov, isn't so important, but they have to do what ive listed above.

 

Martins can win aerial balls and stretch the game as he has good pace and movement and agility, but his touch on the ground is haphazard and his passing not good enough to rely on him to be the main link player in a side.

 

Owen these days plays far deeper and rarely plays with his back to goal. and while his passing is crisp and accurate, it is quite rudimentary, uncreative and uninspiring. he is someone who lays it off simply earlier on in an attack and then, after others work openings, he moves intelligently off-the-ball and follows up in the 2nd phase of an attack, getting on the end of chances. what we need is someone who is influential in the moments in-between these two stages of Owen's play.

 

Is Saviola the player who can fulfill this role? from what ive seen, probably not, though i havent exhaustively analysed how he plays, he may prove adept at those aspects of the game. and his success or failure would not have that much to do with his height or lack of. of course, it is always nice to have the option of height or presence as it gives us greater variety to our attacks, and doesnt give opponents the chance to railroad us into playing a certain way which might alienate a forward line who all have the same weaknesses.

 

as a further note, the examples listed are all those of successful teams, who are almost always on top of the game forcing the play. this isn't neccessarily going to be the case for us, but it does highlight the possibility of us making a success of a Saviola-Owen partnership. that would be if we had two wingers stretching the game and playing really high up the field, almost in a 4-2-4. that way Owen would be following the play rather than leading it, slightly behind the front-line, in the same way he is when he plays as a withdrawn striker/attacking midfielder, with the space in front of him opened up by quick, creative players.