Jonas the attacking midfielder from central?

[Dave]

Based on two games.

 

If teams start working him out, change things then. Players like Michael Owen prove that if you're good enough, Jonny Average footballer will never work you out.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

That and some pre-season games eye. Anyway its just an idea.

[James]

Why mess with what's working? He's excellent on the left, leave him there.

 

He's good on the left but better when he comes infield in my opinion, we look stronger centrally when he does that. This is when Bolton started to lose their compactness at the weekend, I thought they contained him well out wide, although it allowed N'Zogbia more freedom, but whenever he came centrally he caused them problems. He was through before he got cut down and towards the end of the game he carried the ball infield and towards their right flank, before slipping Geremi in with a peach of a weighted pass between the centre-back and full-back and to top it off he didn't stop there, after passing he made his way to the edge of their box. I see that and again think, we could be missing a trick here. Of course this is all theoretical but its nice to be able to ask such questions of our players and indeed manager as we know KK is one for such things, rather than Owen vs Martins round 102

 

Keep it as it is. If he's having joy from coming inside from his left wing position, why change it?

[Alberto2005]

I know he is, but look at the situations so far, the two runs against man u were from him picking up the ball and driving into grass, the time he did Rooney twice where he could take him on the outside down to use his pace. Playing him in that position would be silly IMO, Jonas is the key to our counter attack, playing him in a role more forward and centrally means he won't be able to pick it up in his own half and take pressure off the defence, just leave him where he is and watch him run defenders ragged not leaving him isolated in a attacking role. Keegan will know we need an attacking midfielder, and instead of moving Jonas their I'm sure he'll go out and get a proper one.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Based on two games.

 

If teams start working him out, change things then. Players like Michael Owen prove that if you're good enough, Jonny Average footballer will never work you out.

 

Owen has had to adapt his game massively and KK has had to change his role in the team to get the best out of him. I agree with your original point tbh, I'm just trying to look at things in different ways to address different problems we have, which for me are mostly central.

[Dave]

Based on two games.

 

If teams start working him out, change things then. Players like Michael Owen prove that if you're good enough, Jonny Average footballer will never work you out.

 

Owen has had to adapt his game massively and KK has had to change his role in the team to get the best out of him. I agree with your original point tbh, I'm just trying to look at things in different ways to address different problems we have, which for me are mostly central.

 

The problems in the centre will only be resolved by bringing better players in, not by moving our good players there from other areas. As I said originally, if we move Jonas off the wing, we're resigned to putting a less effective player there (unless we buy someone else).

 

We've found what looks like a corking winger. Let him do the business on the wing.

[colinmk]

Would like to see

 

                    Barton/Guthrie

 

  Jonas/Guthrie                  N'Zogbia/Jonas

 

                            Owen 

                                                Martins

         

                  Viduka   

 

 

Any of that combination in midfield gives you pace, some power and you get the fantastic movement that came about from that front three last season. Ideally would need a replacement for Viduka since he's so injury prone. It's a good formation as long as your fullbacks are great. We have one in Beye and Enrique has potential but is a long way off yet.

[Guest Alan Shearer 9]

Stick to sharks.

[timnufc22]

 

 

 

 

 

_____________Milner____Butt____Jonas_________________

 

 

_____________________Owen_________________________

 

________________Viduka_____Martins___________________

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

Stick to sharks.

 

[cubaricho]

_____________Milner____Butt____Jonas_________________

_____________________Owen_________________________

________________Viduka_____Martins___________________

 

When everyone is fit I think this is what Keegan will go with to be honest.

[Tooj]

Stick to sharks.

 

[captainhaircut]

I would like to see us go back to the 4-3-2-1 again. A pacy, strong, mobile striker instead of Viduka, and Jonas and Guthrie replacing Butt and Geremi. Add in a strong, energetic midfielder to replace Barton in that system and we could have a really good side. I'm not 100% sure why KK has went back to 4-4-2, maybe he believes no-one else in the squad can play the Owen role.

 

Hull at home in a few weeks should be very interesting. God willing, Owen and Oba will be fit and we will have brought in the midfielder and striker mentioned above. We'll then know what system we'll go with for the season.

[Colocho]

Would rather have Jenas in that position.

[Parsley]

I would like to see us go back to the 4-3-2-1 again. A pacy, strong, mobile striker instead of Viduka, and Jonas and Guthrie replacing Butt and Geremi. Add in a strong, energetic midfielder to replace Barton in that system and we could have a really good side. I'm not 100% sure why KK has went back to 4-4-2, maybe he believes no-one else in the squad can play the Owen role.

 

Hull at home in a few weeks should be very interesting. God willing, Owen and Oba will be fit and we will have brought in the midfielder and striker mentioned above. We'll then know what system we'll go with for the season.

 

Viduka's been out and he was one of the main reasons for the success of the 4-3-3 last season imo as he could sustain possession while Owen and Martins could make runs off of him. Without that targetman type player in the front-line, I guess Keegan sees it better to go with more width and midfield support.

[NG32]

My mate mentioned at the match on Staurday that he would fancy playing Jonas in CM himself.

 

Could be a useful player from a CM position.

 

Only problem would be, would Zog and Duff be up to the tast of the left side??

 

 

[Ronaldo]

We've nobody as good to play wide in his absence.

 

aye

[TRon]

The problem with Jonas as the AM playing off the front men is the same dilemma we have with Duff and Milner in that position. Will they score goals?

 

Arda? Yes

Scholes? Yes

Lampard? Yes

Owen? yes

 

Milner?

Duff?

 

 

 

Jonas? Looks more of a provider so best suited wide like others have said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[greydos]

No

[Guest battyleespeed]

We've nobody as good to play wide in his absence.

 

I've been thinking of a 5 man midfield with N'Zogbia and Martins on the left and right, Guthrie sitting as the anchor, Owen playing at the tip of midfield, just off a mobile centre-forward who can play across the width of the pitch and Jonas in there centrally driving on from midfield, carrying that ball. Would involve some degree of fluidity to work like but KK did once say that good footballers in the right frame of mind can play anywhere as long as there is a mutual understanding between everyone. I mean Beardsley once played centrally from midfield and to good effect, he also played wide at times too. Shearer and Ferdinand were similar players and despite their own belief I don't think they were a great partnership as it wasn't how they played, they were just good footballers who both complimented the overal team, rather than one another.

 

--- Guthrie ---

Martins ---- Jonas ---- N'Zogbia

| ------ Owen ------ |

<----- Mobile CF ----->

 

People will see that and think what about defending, but there is enough work rate, cleverness and pace and legs in there to help the defence out, plus Guthrie's role will be purely to pick the ball up off the back-four, spray it about, and sit and protect, kind of the last man like on corners, waiting just incase the ball comes back out. Could work IMO. Martins isn't someone to play on the last man, his strengths are ball carrying, twisting and turning and cutting in, same with N'Zogbia. Jonas and Owen would cause havoc deep, Owen with his running and positioning, Jonas with his energy, drive, close control and ball carrying skills. Then a mobiole CF to operate the width of the final third with skills to play with his back to goal, a focal point to ping the ball to and from for the foursome.

 

Your analysis of Jonas was a very good one and the idea of playing him as a attacking central midfielder is breath of fresh air in this forum but the formation above is naiive I'm afraid. I regard Martins and N'Zogbia tactically useless as both have shown problems with their positioning and awareness.  Guthrie alone would not be able to cover for all the gaps those two would leave and the formation would lose its integrity. That's why Butt and Guthrie in the middle looks so promising as Butt is excellent in keeping the midfield in place and Guthrie provides that little bit of extra energy and forward going mentality that Butt doesn't have.  Jonas - Butt - Guthrie - Milner/Duff looks the most solid midfield we can put out right now. Pairing Jonas with Butt/Guthrie probably would not work as we have seen countless times before likes of Speed and Butt having to carry the other central midfielder (i.e Dyer) who is good at breaking forward but not adept at positioning and holding the midfield.

 

As for Jonas being shut down at left side he'd need to be supported more by overlapping left back and we'd ought to force their right back to stay back by moving striker and/or other midfielders in his area when we are in possession.  Give them problems... and give Jonas options to feed off from. Maybe work out a move with left back overlapping, Jonas releasing ball to central midfielder and making a run inside essentially becoming a temporary third central midfielder. That should drop off any markers. Problem is we don't have top quality left back to give us options. Both Enrique and N'Zogbia are more or less incompetent and will not survive without likes of Jonas having to worry about helping them out in defense. Those two are just not capable of both holding their ground defensively and joining attack with any real menace. Not much might be said or written but those two are probably the most lost-looking players in our squad and that reflects to everything in the pitch. Take away Jonas and put in Duff/N'Zogbia and the left side will be toothless again. Keep Jonas there, recruit better left back and it will be all sorted out.

 

 

[Shearergol]

So Martins on the right wing and Jonas in the centre?

 

Fantastic idea HTT. Shows exactly why you were such a fan of Allardyce.

[Guest musika]

 

 

Here's a novel idea, let's play wingers on the wing, if they're not good enough, drop or sell, and sign an actual centre-midfielder instead.

 

 

I can just imagine if Henry had signed for Newcastle instead of Arsenal from Juventus as a winger, and someone had suggested he play as a striker on this board.

 

"Here's an idea, why don't we sign an actual centre forward instead."

 

[Guest Howaythetoon]

He played centrally against Coventry and I thought he was excellent, he wasn't as dynamic as he has been in the league out wide and he wasn't a direct threat either in that sense, but he was much more involved throughout (all 120 minutes amazingly) and everything we did good he was very much a part of. One of the main reasons we kept the ball so well and played so high up (as I saw it anyway) was down to his presence in the middle. He played some fantastic balls forward, on and off the deck and his harrying, legs and forward thinking drove us forward from midfield. He can play there for sure and while he wasn't scintillating, he spread himself evenly there over the full match, rather than in patches out wide. I'm not arguing that is where he should play btw, ideally we'd sign the right players for the middle and indeed right flank so he can continue to play as he has on the left, but its nice to see a capable player pretty much all over the park at the club and I liked what I saw against Coventry from Jonas playing as the attacking midfielder from central. His presence was also a major factor behind Milner's success floating up top as he suckered people towards the ball whenever he was on it, rarely losing it. He invites challenges or interest from the opposition, probably because he looks ungainly and gives people a chance by showing them the ball (great control and trickery to keep it, not to mention strength) and because he's a new player, a foreigner, others will want to test him out, see if they can knock him off his stride.

 

On the downside, I don't think he's selfish enough to get in among the goals, he seems happy to do a lot of the spadework and set play up, leaving the finishing of chances or opportunities to others. That could all change though as he gets more accustomed to the game here and his team-mates and indeed vice versa.

 

Well pleased with his contributions thus far, we signed a footballer and an athlete rolled into one.

[Dave]

Less involved iyam.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Less involved iyam.

 

In an arse off seat way aye, but much much more involved in terms of general play over the course of the entire match, he was everywhere and always involved whether it be in keeping possession, driving forwards, tackling in his own half, dragging players away to create space or playing through balls through the channels. In fact the only thing he didn't really do was taking pops at goal or getting himself into the box more.