geordie jamie Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 what did he say? any mention of transfers does he still think 3 or 4 players could sign? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Joey Barton: Dirty challenge was his only contribution. I gave him a 10 on the rating out of spite for that comment. Fucking wankers have no clue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 what did he say? any mention of transfers does he still think 3 or 4 players could sign? no Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Someone should take a sledgehammer to Ameobi's hip because he's a much worse player since that operation. I thought Michael Owen showed again today why he doesn't work as one of two strikers, especially away from home, he just doesn't have enough to his game in terms of pace or strength to contribute enough but works in that withdrawn role because he's got good control and good passing ability. That 4-3-3 is still where we'll see the best of him imo. Should've scored and made it 1-1 with that sitter, failed to control an excellent ball by Guthrie which was apparently difficult to control but was essentially the type of pass the true world class stikers would control comfortably (and would therefore have been another strong chance to score had he controlled it), failed to hold the ball up adequately in numerous situations, and generally cannot do much with it at feet other than pass it sideways or backwards, i.e. he's unable to drive forward, down the wings, or just run at defenders. As an attacking midfielder, he's a different animal altogether for the reasons you've mentioned, added to which tactically he's extremely difficult to pick up when hes running into the box from deep, but as a striker in the Premiership I think he's finished with respect to being "top class" or even "good", unless he's playing for a side that can effectively play with 10 men and still manage to create enough chances for him to bag once in a while. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Joey Barton: Dirty challenge was his only contribution. I gave him a 10 on the rating out of spite for that comment. Fucking wankers have no clue. So did I. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeToon Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Joey Barton: Dirty challenge was his only contribution. I gave him a 10 on the rating out of spite for that comment. Fucking wankers have no clue. So did I. Same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 haha they came on at the same time but gave edgar 4 and barton 1 for fuck sake he won the ball Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Kaka in future by all means debate with me, that's great and what this forum's for. I'm glad you've been entertained like i have watching the team we love for the last 2 hours. But please in future do not feel you have to question my sanity or throw other insults at me. I respect you and would like the same mate. cheers Fair enough greydos. Apologies. We'll have to agree to disagree on this, as I think Taylor was awful. Similar to Milner, still looks just like he has done since he came into the team, hardly any improvemet at all. Man ... I get so wound up watching these guys sometimes. It's understandable to lose to Arsenal, but don't look so damn clueless and pathetic doing it for goodness sake. You would think half of them had never seen a football before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 I'magreed with Kaka on this one, yes Taylor is decent in the air, but on the deck he just backs off and ends up marking no one, IMO making it more difficult for anyone else to know who to pick up. I also thought Habib Beye looked disinterested today, I don't know if he's carrying an injury but he looks way off the pace. Arsenal played well, but we didn't really play with any passion or tempo. Very flat performance. On a positive note, if we are going to have a weakened team, it might as well be at the Emirates, where we probably weren't going to get much anyway. The win last week was much more important. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greydos Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Fair enough lads. I'll be interested to see the Opta stats on the amount of shots Taylor blocked. I counted 3 in the second half where he sprinted out to a shot and blocked it from a corner. And fair play not many people will have seen football played with that fluidity of passing and movement at high speed so that's a slightly unfair comment i feel. I've just txt my mate that i feel this year we're going to improve on last year, possibly significantly (signings depending) whereas Arsenal will achieve about the same as last year in terms of position in league and cup attempts. So, in a perverse way, i'll likely be happier than arsenal fans at the end of the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 The problem with Taylor in my opinion is that he goes backwards when under pressure rather than putting the man on the ball under pressure trying to win the ball. Which is why the opponent manages to get past him time after time as he gives them time to figure out what they want to do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsley Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Arsenal were different class today, would have thrashed anyone today tbh. Wasn't the worst I've seen us play by a long stretch, thought we played some lovely stuff in a few instances like the build-up to Zog blazing that free-kick and still creating a handful of quality chances. Losing Jose really is a kick to the teeth though, really hope he's back for Hull despite Bassong looking competent. Given -8; Was excellent today Beye - 5; Couple of excellent challenges but not frequent enough. Looks unfit. Taylor - 5; Good in the air but hesitated when it mattered (Denilson's goal, just completely stood off him I felt). Exposed frequently by simply quality opposition. Coloccini - 6; Another decent display. Caught in possession for one of the goals but won loads of tackles and made several crucial blocks. Enrique - 7; Was the pick of the bunch in the first half, stood his ground well and combined with Zog smoothly. Real shame to see him go off. Bassong - 6; Nothing spectacular but displayed good composure and made no mistakes. Jonas - 7; Tireless and always looked threatening. Had a tough time against Clichy but took his opportunities well and put in a couple of quality crosses. Guthrie - 7; Good vision and feet as per usual. Looked every bit as good as Nasri and Denilson I felt. Butt - 6; Generally solid with a few poor touches and misplaced passes. Industrious as ever and strong in the tackle but often gives away possession needlessly. N'Zogbia - 6; Delivery was very poor but always looked a threat with the ball at his feet. Will improve. Owen - 6; Didn't quite happen for him today. His positional awareness excelled at times and peeled away from Gallas and Toure effortlessly on a couple of occasions. Had a few nice touches and was unlucky not to score but for Shola. That said, got little of the ball and simply didn't pose much of a threat. Ameobi - 5; Thought he looked alright on the ball but off it he had a real shocker; defensively inept under heavy responsibility in marking Gallas and just looked really clumsy and off the pace. Just as well we're playing Hull next week hopefully with Martins back and a few new faces through the door. Very disappointed today with the resutl and performance but I doubt there's little you can do when Arsenal play like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrette Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Keegan was just on SSN and sounded very angry with Nasri. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Butt is a fucking dreadful player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Keegan was just on SSN and sounded very angry with Nasri. Saying what? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Fair enough lads. I'll be interested to see the Opta stats on the amount of shots Taylor blocked. I counted 3 in the second half where he sprinted out to a shot and blocked it from a corner. And fair play not many people will have seen football played with that fluidity of passing and movement at high speed so that's a slightly unfair comment i feel. I've just txt my mate that i feel this year we're going to improve on last year, possibly significantly (signings depending) whereas Arsenal will achieve about the same as last year in terms of position in league and cup attempts. So, in a perverse way, i'll likely be happier than arsenal fans at the end of the season. I see Taylor making those blocks which in one way show great commitment and bravery, but in another way make you wonder why he's not closer to a striker and is looking like "last man standing" so often. Taylor isn't good at man-marking IMO, for a CB that's not a weakness you can carry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Narttu Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Yea, i thought that Barton won the ball, then he had a contact with Nasri, but it wasnt dirty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Butt is a fucking dreadful player. He's not that bad up to a certain level. I think in games against the best teams he just isn't going to be able to cope with their speed and athleticism. Aresenal were running rings round our midfield today, Guthrie just about started to catch up by the end, Butt was chasing shadows all evening. He wasn't the only one though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris1210 Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 I've said it a million times - if we persist in playing Taylor purely because he's a 'local lad', we will never get this club forward. He's average at best, positionally very weak and not a great tackler either. Faye before he left gave me more confidence that he does, and Bassong, albeit against lower league opposition, looked much better and more of a unit with Coloccini than Taylor does. I'd drop him, he's too big for his f**kin boots, he has an opinion of himself WAY above his station. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Butt is a fucking dreadful player. He's not that bad up to a certain level. I think in games against the best teams he just isn't going to be able to cope with their speed and athleticism. Aresenal were running rings round our midfield today, Guthrie just about started to catch up by the end, Butt was chasing shadows all evening. He wasn't the only one though. He's bad against top half teams, & the "work" he does isn't needed against bottom half teams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greydos Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Fair enough lads. I'll be interested to see the Opta stats on the amount of shots Taylor blocked. I counted 3 in the second half where he sprinted out to a shot and blocked it from a corner. And fair play not many people will have seen football played with that fluidity of passing and movement at high speed so that's a slightly unfair comment i feel. I've just txt my mate that i feel this year we're going to improve on last year, possibly significantly (signings depending) whereas Arsenal will achieve about the same as last year in terms of position in league and cup attempts. So, in a perverse way, i'll likely be happier than arsenal fans at the end of the season. I see Taylor making those blocks which in one way show great commitment and bravery, but in another way make you wonder why he's not closer to a striker and is looking like "last man standing" so often. Taylor isn't good at man-marking IMO, for a CB that's not a weakness you can carry. The blocks he made were when nasri, fabregas and vela when he dropped off were runing at the defence from deep. You can't manmark CMs as a centre back, it's not right. truth be told Guthrie and Butt should have been chasing back making tackles but htey weren't. I'm not saying Taylor's perfect, or even good (i think Bassong's going to be better at CB than him, but given 5 yeasr of further education his best footballing years from 27-32 will be good ones i feel, very good ones). I'm saying Taylor did at least as well as Colo today, who stepped out to make so many challenges and missed them. If you go high up the park to win a tackle, you have to make it. Colo didn't plenty of times and left holes in behind. But he's new, and he'll learn. He was clearly tired and stretched his calf out on the 78 min mark. Also, Colo daudled on the ball at one point and adebayor almost got in when it needed a quick pass back to shay or a clearance. I'd love to have heard the comments on here if taylor or (dare i say it) bramble would have done that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 In terms of individual defending, Taylor did his job to a large degree in that he won a fair few headers, blocked a fair few shots, won a few tackles and intercepted a few balls. He was very good in that context of defending. However his positioning off the ball and marking was a complete mess. But before we condemn him fully for that, I'll point to the total breakdown in the defensive unit as a whole as a major contributing factor behind that, and that applies to the others in defence too. A breakdown that came about due to the poor protection from midfield but moreover from the outstanding pass and move fluidity of Arsenal who in such form, would carve open any defensive unit in the world which they are very much capable of and do achieve on a regular basis, hence their position in world football as one of the best sides. Of course poor individual performances helped their cause but in reality it was much like Coventry against us on Tuesday week, we could do little to stop such uniform, concise, full of pace and trickery movement and passing, not with the side we had out and on the back of 120 minutes in midweek. We had zero stickability up front or any pace while in the central area of midfield which is for me our weakest area, we had no athleticism or creativity, things Arsenal have in abundance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Butt is a f***ing dreadful player. Was decent in the second half, but that was when we were 2-0 up and Arsenal were just sitting back looking to counter. Prior to that, he was up there with Ameobi as being a serious weakness in the team. He'd still be handy as backup, but its shocking how by the time his current contract runs out, he'll probably have been a first team player with us for the last 2 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Can't really assess any of our players on what we saw today, Arsenal are playing a different game to us and it's laughable how far behind them we are. Not many teams would have come out of that with any points though. All I'd say is that we lack dynamism and athleticism, Jonas apart. The way Eboue (who isn't an amazing player), Adebayor and Van Persie were gliding past us was embarrassing. If we bring in any players, they all need to be quick and strong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 The blocks he made were when nasri, fabregas and vela when he dropped off were runing at the defence from deep. You can't manmark CMs as a centre back, it's not right. truth be told Guthrie and Butt should have been chasing back making tackles but htey weren't. I'm not saying Taylor's perfect, or even good (i think Bassong's going to be better at CB than him, but given 5 yeasr of further education his best footballing years from 27-32 will be good ones i feel, very good ones). I'm saying Taylor did at least as well as Colo today, who stepped out to make so many challenges and missed them. If you go high up the park to win a tackle, you have to make it. Colo didn't plenty of times and left holes in behind. But he's new, and he'll learn. He was clearly tired and stretched his calf out on the 78 min mark. Also, Colo daudled on the ball at one point and adebayor almost got in when it needed a quick pass back to shay or a clearance. I'd love to have heard the comments on here if taylor or (dare i say it) bramble would have done that. Agree with all of that apart from the fact that its far too early to judge how good Bassong is going to be obviously. People need to appreciate/admit that Colo was just as poor as anyone in the back four today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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