Guest Toon Argy Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 No real fan would blame Keegan for any of this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 No real fan would blame Keegan for any of this. thats bullshit. i'm not one of those blaming keegan btw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcmk Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 A manager who cant run the club his way - is always going to end in tears. We had the perfect manager for Newcastle, but not the perfect people upstairs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrette Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 It's not just Keegan's departure alone that upsets me - it's the simple fact that we've now got to undertake the whole finding and hiring a manager process, when the season has already started, when they can't bring in any of their own men and when there aren't many proven managers out there anyway. Plus who would be attracted to a club where the fans are almost all against the men behind the scenes, and where the players will have been hurt by all of this? I know this is premature but I'm going to write this season off as another lower-mid table finish. Anything more than that would be impressive and unexpected. No real fan would blame Keegan for any of this. You've no right to question people's integrity as NUFC supporters. People are entitled to their own opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 It's not just Keegan's departure alone that upsets me - it's the simple fact that we've now got undertake the whole finding and hiring a manager process, when the season has already started, when they can't bring in any of their own men and when there aren't many proven managers out there anyway. Plus who would be attracted to a club where the fans are almost all against the men behind the scenes, and where the players will have been hurt by all of this? I know this is premature but I'm going to write this season off as another lower-mid table finish. Anything more than that would be impressive and unexpected. No real fan would blame Keegan for any of this. You've no right to question people's integrity as NUFC supporters. People are entitled to their own opinion. pretty much my exact feelings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest smarty2006 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 The thing is though, it's not a stupid structure. It's got us 4 very good players so far this summer, with 2 still yet to be proven. Better strike rate than previous years anyway. The only downside of the structure is that it quite obviously hasn't worked properly. It should be up to Jiminez and Vetere to RECOMMEND players to Keegan, who then buys as he wants, and he can also put in his own RECOMMENDATIONS to the board. Sadly, it appears not to have worked like this and that's why we are where we are. It is a stupid structure because managers don't want to be told how to run things, and this is not just Keegan I'm talking about. All it does is make people pull in different directions within the club and cause unrest. If they did need someone to tell them how to run things, then they more than likely wouldn't have made their name in management to begin with, would they. FFS man. The actual structure isn't stupid. The way that it's been implemented in this case is. The structure evidently was working and things were looking good, we got some excellent buys over the summer we were building slowly but surely, not over spending, things were looking up! only we were sabotaged by the least likely person! If we had bought dross and were struggling I would understand, why at the 11th hour suddenly dont like it? we never actually sold Barton, Smith or Owen Keegan got his way for fu*ks sake! surely he could of bit the bullet till the end of the season? gave it a proper go! then say "Nah this system does not work with me, blah blah blah" leave us in a better state than this mess!. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 The thing is though, it's not a stupid structure. It's got us 4 very good players so far this summer, with 2 still yet to be proven. Better strike rate than previous years anyway. The only downside of the structure is that it quite obviously hasn't worked properly. It should be up to Jiminez and Vetere to RECOMMEND players to Keegan, who then buys as he wants, and he can also put in his own RECOMMENDATIONS to the board. Sadly, it appears not to have worked like this and that's why we are where we are. Good but who advises the board? What happens when they got Keegans list? They get a list of players recommended by 3 people specifically paid to scout plays and employed specifically because of their talents to do so, its easy to question why Keegan would want completely different targets and none the team want. If Keegan doesnt like any of the players the transfer team are suggesting, it brings into question why are they employed. Thats not to say he doesnt have the right to want different players and certainly shouldnt just pick a couple from the list to pacify the set up. Its a big trust issue that I think was lacking it was a set up that had to be trusted and I think it was never going to work with Keegan being an old school manager. Back to what the board do once the list is compiled, it should be a basic matter of do we have the money to go for the player? are they interested? go out to get it done. There isnt any reason why said scouting/transfer trio should be privy to the final list sent to the board, I think the terrible trio were certainly more trusted by ashley than keegan, which isnt suprising as he knew two of them very well to begin with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 It's not just Keegan's departure alone that upsets me - it's the simple fact that we've now got undertake the whole finding and hiring a manager process, when the season has already started, when they can't bring in any of their own men and when there aren't many proven managers out there anyway. Plus who would be attracted to a club where the fans are almost all against the men behind the scenes, and where the players will have been hurt by all of this? I know this is premature but I'm going to write this season off as another lower-mid table finish. Anything more than that would be impressive and unexpected. I'm sick of writing seasons off, it's beyond a joke now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 I'm afraid ON is right and if you check out my posts from this time last night you'll find i was turning from one side to the other in this debate as i realised what had gone on. The biggest element of this whole debacle that points to who wanted this situation, is the answer to "who were the skysports/bbc/media sources on tuesday morning"? Who leaked this? Who stood to gain? Posing these questions to myself, i came to the same conclusions as Baggio, ON and others. Keegan just didnt want to do this job, nothing more and nothing less. I agree that Keegan didn't want the job, not with the constraints put in place. For the first time in this debacle I'm going off Dennis Wise big time as I'm starting to think he's at the centre of all this. I don't care who the manager is, he should have a Vito when it comes to players coming and going. I understand the reasons why he wanted to leave, i'm just having a massive blamestorming session which is getting me nowhere. The point being, is that he engineered himself a way out which is now quite clear. Therefore, looking at the bare facts, it seems Keegan got his way. I know he should never have got himself into this situation in the first place but thats the whole point. He did know what was going on and instead of fighting it and securing power going forward, he resigned. And that is the ultimate judgement of this situation. If he wanted to stay, in the current climate, he could have easily worked a new more powerful agreement. He didnt because he wasnt up for the shite he'd have to deal with. A completely fair, understandable and undoubtedly selfish decision. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 it was always going to happen from what we've heard so far though, so at least its happened now, at the start of the season during an international break, than in january or something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sniffer Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Your opinion only as you have no idea what was going on behind closed doors. None at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 true, but from what keegan said he's left over control of transfers, and if thats the case then it wasn't something that would have worked itself out over time, it would have reared its ugly head at some point, when keegan had had enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sniffer Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Actually that was a response to the french bloke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Toon Argy Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 It's not just Keegan's departure alone that upsets me - it's the simple fact that we've now got to undertake the whole finding and hiring a manager process, when the season has already started, when they can't bring in any of their own men and when there aren't many proven managers out there anyway. Plus who would be attracted to a club where the fans are almost all against the men behind the scenes, and where the players will have been hurt by all of this? I know this is premature but I'm going to write this season off as another lower-mid table finish. Anything more than that would be impressive and unexpected. No real fan would blame Keegan for any of this. You've no right to question people's integrity as NUFC supporters. People are entitled to their own opinion. Should support Keegan and not the fat arsehole that has tried to buy himself fame, power, attention. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 I understand the reasons why he wanted to leave, i'm just having a massive blamestorming session which is getting me nowhere. The point being, is that he engineered himself a way out which is now quite clear. Therefore, looking at the bare facts, it seems Keegan got his way. I know he should never have got himself into this situation in the first place but thats the whole point. He did know what was going on and instead of fighting it and securing power going forward, he resigned. And that is the ultimate judgement of this situation. If he wanted to stay, in the current climate, he could have easily worked a new more powerful agreement. He didnt because he wasnt up for the s**** he'd have to deal with. A completely fair, understandable and undoubtedly selfish decision. Keegan could have easily expected to win this battle and come out stronger, without knowing all (or really any) of the facts I think he's been let down by Ashley who should have backed the manager he brought to the club. I'm assuming that Keegan had a justifiable grievance with at least 1 person within the club. Worse than that, I think the fans have been let down badly by all concerned. Jesus, I’m confused. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Your opinion only as you have no idea what was going on behind closed doors. None at all. I'll take it i'm the french bloke Start at the question 'who leaked the news on tuesday morning?" and i'll meet you over at reality in 5 minutes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest smarty2006 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 true, but from what keegan said he's left over control of transfers, and if thats the case then it wasn't something that would have worked itself out over time, it would have reared its ugly head at some point, when keegan had had enough. This was the first transfer window for Keegan and he knew from the beginning he would not be 100% in control. Surely a better tact for Keegan would be, come January I want 80% my picks in the squad or I am gone? I would understand that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Actually that was a response to the french bloke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 It's not just Keegan's departure alone that upsets me - it's the simple fact that we've now got to undertake the whole finding and hiring a manager process, when the season has already started, when they can't bring in any of their own men and when there aren't many proven managers out there anyway. Plus who would be attracted to a club where the fans are almost all against the men behind the scenes, and where the players will have been hurt by all of this? I know this is premature but I'm going to write this season off as another lower-mid table finish. Anything more than that would be impressive and unexpected. No real fan would blame Keegan for any of this. You've no right to question people's integrity as NUFC supporters. People are entitled to their own opinion. Should support Keegan and not the fat arsehole that has tried to buy himself fame, power, attention. except he hasn't though. a lot of the usual bullshit is being spread about ashley, and i haven't really had the stregnth to defend him, because i'm annoyed at him myself but what i will say is that he's done a few good things while he's been here as well, and he's trying to do the right thing. He's fucked up here, in more than one way, very big fuckups, but if you're going to criticise him you've got plenty of valid reasons atm without the need to stick to the usual incorrect cliches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 true, but from what keegan said he's left over control of transfers, and if thats the case then it wasn't something that would have worked itself out over time, it would have reared its ugly head at some point, when keegan had had enough. This was the first transfer window for Keegan and he knew from the beginning he would not be 100% in control. Surely a better tact for Keegan would be, come January I want 80% my picks in the squad or I am gone? I would understand that! i don't know, i'm more confused tham mick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 I'm not trying to be dramatic but this is like the death of a family member. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 or like you father walking out when your 10 years old? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest smarty2006 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 I'm not trying to be dramatic but this is like the death of a family member. Worse! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sniffer Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Aye if it's the budgie perhaps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest smarty2006 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 or like you father walking out when your 10 years old? Thats a good analogy...Or how about that the family are starving and daddy leaves the high paid job because he doesnt like the conditions, leaving the sullen faced kids greetin at the windows Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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