Did Keegan turn them all down?

[mrmojorisin75]

It is a fact that there are two sides to every story.

 

It is a fact that no-one apart from KK, the Board and close associates know each particular side of the story.

 

It is a fact that the press and the fans are making up their own stories without a shred of proof.

 

 

I'm angry at the situation, I'm dissapointed with boardroom PR, but right now a lot of the aspects of the blame game are unfair on all parties.

 

nicely summed up james

[mrmojorisin75]

is anyone gonna look me in the internet eye and tell me this doesn't just boil down to a nice bit of dirty regionalism against a southern owner and nasty dennis?

 

anyone?  really?

 

No problem. It's not about regionalism, it's about an owner lying about how he wants to run the club.

 

care to expand?  in fact don't bother, i'm convinced, MA is the only person in football to utter an untruth, if indeed it could be proven that he has done so...and if it wasn't him it was nasty dennis

 

probably

 

you're deluding yourself if you can't see the regional aspect

[johnnypd]

 

Wise is in charge of Jimenez, Vetere, and the coaches, and reports directly to Llambias, it's quite clear:

 

http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1227633,00.html

 

He is clearly the one in ultimate charge of deciding who we sign and who we sell. If he chose to sign a player the manager specifically said he didn't want, which is Keegan's claim, then he is the person most responsible on the club's side for the consequences.

 

In such case I have no doubt whatsoever such a dispute would have been referred immediately to Llambias.

 

It's all speculation, but very good points are being made by the likes of KaKa, Edd, mrmojo et al - and not being adequately refuted. mrmojorisin75 suggests:

 

exactly edd - it all either points to something that wasn't cynical by the club but merely a breakdown over time between the parties involved

 

OR

 

keegan, as you say, was unhappy and had no say the whole time yet lied to the thousands of fans buying season tickets and let them pay 3 years in advance only to up ship and run at the last minute when it was all too late

 

if you believe he was lied to from day one then he's equally culpable in this respect, no?

 

So can Keegan's supporters please come up with something other than "It's all speculative bollocks" or "It's all Wise's fault"? UV asks

 

Yet you think Keegan signed up to be Jimenez' lacky? You think he signed up knowing the hierarchy would be Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan

 

I'd hardly call the authorisation of spending millions of pounds on players micro-managing btw.

 

Well, yes and no.

 

He said (with some cheekiness I'm sure) "I didn't have a brochure this time. It came like a whirlwind it is like one of those Lastminute.com holidays! There was no brochure I just came." Secondly, Wise had yet to be appointed, though one must assume negotiations with Wise had already commenced. So no, Keegan was not explicitly told that the hierarchy was Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan.

 

However, if you think Ashley and Mort hired Keegan without telling him about the imminent appointment of an executive director (football), that Ashley and Mort duped Keegan into believing he would be an old-school manager with sweeping powers while secretly planning to go in exactly the opposite direction, well... I'll take Kaka's logic over yours thanks.

 

 

raconteur, very few people want to hear this, instead they prefer the following word associations:

 

cockney, lies, wise, southerner, season tickets, 3 years, fabrication, conspiracy

 

KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism

 

i'm still astounded that after years of shepherd leasing warehouses to the club, ridiculing the supporters publicly, taking massive dividends despite deteriorating results on the pitch (etc...) was affored so much time and never once was there a talk of a boycott of club products, marches, none of this shit...before anyone starts about balancing the books i'll point you to bobby robsons first 2 seasons for a parrallel on spend and manager...also to the sacking of bobby as well really

 

is anyone gonna look me in the internet eye and tell me this doesn't just boil down to a nice bit of dirty regionalism against a southern owner and nasty dennis?

 

anyone?  really?

 

 

 

if you want answers to that you just have to look over the board, probably hundreds of counter arguments. specifically the inaccurate "robson's first two seasons" stuff which has been responded to quite a few times. and i'm not sure what people are getting at by bringing up the Robson sacking as it is some defence of this board. are people saying "well shepherd did it so ashley is allowed to as well"? that's bloody daft if so. i criticised shepherd for his undermining of robson and handling of his departure, i'll do the same for Ashley in this equivalent situation. either you do it for both or neither, otherwise it's being blindly partisan.

 

shite like "KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism" does everyone on here a disservice.

 

fuckof  johhny that's pish to be honest

 

i don't offer the robson book balancing as an excuse for ashley but it's the only reasonable thing i can see for people kicking off so much, the lack of spending...if it's not about the club not spending money on players then people should stop spouting the 3 years ST shit no?  otherwise what're they fucken complaining about on that score?

 

this lies shit is unreal - KK fucken lied to you all summer saying everything was OK didn't he?  that he had a wondeful relationship with everyone at the club, there was money to spend etc...

 

or were his lies OK 'cause he loved the club but ashleys/nasty dennis's are not OK for what reason exactly?

 

'fuckof  johhny that's pish'

 

are you drunk or something?

 

the Robson thing is rubbish because he was allowed to spend more once we had a cash windfall by way of the stadium expansion. if you want to look for an equivalent development today you look at the £18m extra TV money we received at the end of last season compared to the one before, along with the £6m saved in debt repayments. considering we broke even in our last accounts that should give us over £20m net to spend, or, if we want to be ambitious and use next season's income in advance, as many other clubs do, at least £40m. Mackems have spent something like £70m since coming up, and transfer inflation in general has spiked - overall summer spending gone from something like £265m to £540m in 2 years. yet we've spent little to nothing since ashley arrived.

 

personally i find facts like this more important than shite like 'fuckof johhny' which you apparently find so superior.

 

as for Keegan lying, maybe he was putting on a brave face and trying to battle through the undermining and ridiculing as Robson did before him, and thought that while the window was open there was a still a chance he could leverage his position to get what we wanted for the club. or, as many assumed earlier in the window, that he had some sort of working relationship and consensus that disintegrated - perhaps because the two sides were squabbling over limited funds, and this came to a head in the last days of the window.

[James]

Yes it is, that was what he initially said his job was. Why in the hell it has spiralled into the current mess I fail to understand

 

What people are forgetting is that while everything was kicking off at the board meetings on the 1st, Dennis Wise was in Leeds arranging the £1.5m transfer of three academy prospects.

 

Leeds denied it and i believe all three players are still at leeds. Fabien Delph scored his first goal for them the other day.

 

Transfer windows are pretty irrelevant when it comes to recruiting academy players, and Leeds have denied many things that have come true.

 

If it was true, then the fact that Wise was negotiating when he didn't need to be would suggest that his role isn't as senior as people are making out.

 

whatever you say, but Delph and Elliot are now in the first-team, not the academy, so i think i'll stick with my story. did you personally see Wise in leeds or not? knowing you, you probably thought the 3 has already signed for us.

 

Any reason for making personal comments?

 

Like I said, there are two sides to every story. Knowing you, you probably thought that any story discrediting Wise and the board is the right one.

 

I don't personally know whether Wise was in Leeds or not, but if he wasn't it is a bit of a rubbish story for papers to make up on transfer deadline day when there is so much else to talk about.

 

We can sit around blaming this person, trading insults with that person, but at the end of the day, we are stuck with our situation, and we may as well try to find some positive spin out of the whole situation.

[Bad Mongo]

So instead of taking my points seriously, you choose to ignore them to support your argument. Nicely done!

 

Come on: Ashley has lied about who got to decide upon transfers and that there would be money available, that the squad would be expanded. If Dennis Wise et al were doing their job, which I believe they were doing (because if not, they would have gone and Keegan would have stayed), Mike Ashley lied. This is an owner who claimed he wanted to win something, but who's clearly satisfied with a bottom half finish.

[johnnypd]

Yes it is, that was what he initially said his job was. Why in the hell it has spiralled into the current mess I fail to understand

 

What people are forgetting is that while everything was kicking off at the board meetings on the 1st, Dennis Wise was in Leeds arranging the £1.5m transfer of three academy prospects.

 

Leeds denied it and i believe all three players are still at leeds. Fabien Delph scored his first goal for them the other day.

 

Transfer windows are pretty irrelevant when it comes to recruiting academy players, and Leeds have denied many things that have come true.

 

If it was true, then the fact that Wise was negotiating when he didn't need to be would suggest that his role isn't as senior as people are making out.

 

whatever you say, but Delph and Elliot are now in the first-team, not the academy, so i think i'll stick with my story. did you personally see Wise in leeds or not? knowing you, you probably thought the 3 has already signed for us.

 

Any reason for making personal comments?

 

Like I said, there are two sides to every story. Knowing you, you probably thought that any story discrediting Wise and the board is the right one.

 

I don't personally know whether Wise was in Leeds or not, but if he wasn't it is a bit of a rubbish story for papers to make up on transfer deadline day when there is so much else to talk about.

 

We can sit around blaming this person, trading insults with that person, but at the end of the day, we are stuck with our situation, and we may as well try to find some positive spin out of the whole situation.

 

the personal thing was tongue-in-cheek, sorry if you took it the wrong way.

 

i've kept on eye on the players mentioned since that story and they're still at leeds and 2 of them are in the first team squad, or even scoring goals already. even the press stories said we'd just enquired about them, not that we were in Leeds finalising a deal.

[James]

So instead of taking my points seriously, you choose to ignore them to support your argument. Nicely done!

 

Come on: Ashley has lied about who got to decide upon transfers and that there would be money available, that the squad would be expanded. If Dennis Wise et al were doing their job, which I believe they were doing (because if not, they would have gone and Keegan would have stayed), Mike Ashley lied. This is an owner who claimed he wanted to win something, but who's clearly satisfied with a bottom half finish.

 

Everyone lied it would seem, although the contrasting opinion on the lies depending on who told them is hilarious.

 

And now, everything one person says is gospel, while what someone else says is a pack of horseshit

[Colos Short and Curlies]

 

Wise is in charge of Jimenez, Vetere, and the coaches, and reports directly to Llambias, it's quite clear:

 

http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1227633,00.html

 

He is clearly the one in ultimate charge of deciding who we sign and who we sell. If he chose to sign a player the manager specifically said he didn't want, which is Keegan's claim, then he is the person most responsible on the club's side for the consequences.

 

In such case I have no doubt whatsoever such a dispute would have been referred immediately to Llambias.

 

It's all speculation, but very good points are being made by the likes of KaKa, Edd, mrmojo et al - and not being adequately refuted. mrmojorisin75 suggests:

 

exactly edd - it all either points to something that wasn't cynical by the club but merely a breakdown over time between the parties involved

 

OR

 

keegan, as you say, was unhappy and had no say the whole time yet lied to the thousands of fans buying season tickets and let them pay 3 years in advance only to up ship and run at the last minute when it was all too late

 

if you believe he was lied to from day one then he's equally culpable in this respect, no?

 

So can Keegan's supporters please come up with something other than "It's all speculative bollocks" or "It's all Wise's fault"? UV asks

 

Yet you think Keegan signed up to be Jimenez' lacky? You think he signed up knowing the hierarchy would be Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan

 

I'd hardly call the authorisation of spending millions of pounds on players micro-managing btw.

 

Well, yes and no.

 

He said (with some cheekiness I'm sure) "I didn't have a brochure this time. It came like a whirlwind it is like one of those Lastminute.com holidays! There was no brochure I just came." Secondly, Wise had yet to be appointed, though one must assume negotiations with Wise had already commenced. So no, Keegan was not explicitly told that the hierarchy was Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan.

 

However, if you think Ashley and Mort hired Keegan without telling him about the imminent appointment of an executive director (football), that Ashley and Mort duped Keegan into believing he would be an old-school manager with sweeping powers while secretly planning to go in exactly the opposite direction, well... I'll take Kaka's logic over yours thanks.

 

 

raconteur, very few people want to hear this, instead they prefer the following word associations:

 

cockney, lies, wise, southerner, season tickets, 3 years, fabrication, conspiracy

 

KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism

 

i'm still astounded that after years of shepherd leasing warehouses to the club, ridiculing the supporters publicly, taking massive dividends despite deteriorating results on the pitch (etc...) was affored so much time and never once was there a talk of a boycott of club products, marches, none of this shit...before anyone starts about balancing the books i'll point you to bobby robsons first 2 seasons for a parrallel on spend and manager...also to the sacking of bobby as well really

 

is anyone gonna look me in the internet eye and tell me this doesn't just boil down to a nice bit of dirty regionalism against a southern owner and nasty dennis?

 

anyone?  really?

 

 

 

if you want answers to that you just have to look over the board, probably hundreds of counter arguments. specifically the inaccurate "robson's first two seasons" stuff which has been responded to quite a few times. and i'm not sure what people are getting at by bringing up the Robson sacking as it is some defence of this board. are people saying "well shepherd did it so ashley is allowed to as well"? that's bloody daft if so. i criticised shepherd for his undermining of robson and handling of his departure, i'll do the same for Ashley in this equivalent situation. either you do it for both or neither, otherwise it's being blindly partisan.

 

shite like "KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism" does everyone on here a disservice.

 

fuckof  johhny that's pish to be honest

 

i don't offer the robson book balancing as an excuse for ashley but it's the only reasonable thing i can see for people kicking off so much, the lack of spending...if it's not about the club not spending money on players then people should stop spouting the 3 years ST shit no?  otherwise what're they fucken complaining about on that score?

 

this lies shit is unreal - KK fucken lied to you all summer saying everything was OK didn't he?  that he had a wondeful relationship with everyone at the club, there was money to spend etc...

 

or were his lies OK 'cause he loved the club but ashleys/nasty dennis's are not OK for what reason exactly?

 

'fuckof  johhny that's pish'

 

are you drunk or something?

 

the Robson thing is rubbish because he was allowed to spend more once we had a cash windfall by way of the stadium expansion. if you want to look for an equivalent development today you look at the £18m extra TV money we received at the end of last season compared to the one before, along with the £6m saved in debt repayments. considering we broke even in our last accounts that should give us over £20m net to spend, or, if we want to be ambitious and use next season's income in advance, as many other clubs do, at least £40m. Mackems have spent something like £70m since coming up, and transfer inflation in general has spiked - overall summer spending gone from something like £265m to £540m in 2 years. yet we've spent little to nothing since ashley arrived.

 

personally i find facts like this more important than shite like 'fuckof johhny' which you apparently find so superior.

 

as for Keegan lying, maybe he was putting on a brave face and trying to battle through the undermining and ridiculing as Robson did before him, and thought that while the window was open there was a still a chance he could leverage his position to get what we wanted for the club. or, as many assumed earlier in the window, that he had some sort of working relationship and consensus that disintegrated - perhaps because the two sides were squabbling over limited funds, and this came to a head in the last days of the window.

 

It could also be argued that Robson was 'allowed to spend' once he had removed the high earners such as Maric and Ferguson from the wage bill.

 

As for the spending next seasons income in advance or 'where has the TV money gone', we still owe £25m on past transfers - there goes the £20m that you suggest should be available.

 

I'm not Shepherd bashing or Ashley licking - although I am on record on this board supporting the model which it had appeared we were following up to deadline day, but I do find it funny how very similar events (such as Robsons spending constraints in season 1 and 2 vs Ashleys spending or Keegan walking due to constraints on his spending in 96 (needing to raise £6m to cover the shearer fee by selling Ferdinand) and now) can be twisted by both sides to appear to be completely different, when in fact they show numerous key similarities

[KaKa]

 

Wise is in charge of Jimenez, Vetere, and the coaches, and reports directly to Llambias, it's quite clear:

 

http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1227633,00.html

 

He is clearly the one in ultimate charge of deciding who we sign and who we sell. If he chose to sign a player the manager specifically said he didn't want, which is Keegan's claim, then he is the person most responsible on the club's side for the consequences.

 

In such case I have no doubt whatsoever such a dispute would have been referred immediately to Llambias.

 

It's all speculation, but very good points are being made by the likes of KaKa, Edd, mrmojo et al - and not being adequately refuted. mrmojorisin75 suggests:

 

exactly edd - it all either points to something that wasn't cynical by the club but merely a breakdown over time between the parties involved

 

OR

 

keegan, as you say, was unhappy and had no say the whole time yet lied to the thousands of fans buying season tickets and let them pay 3 years in advance only to up ship and run at the last minute when it was all too late

 

if you believe he was lied to from day one then he's equally culpable in this respect, no?

 

So can Keegan's supporters please come up with something other than "It's all speculative bollocks" or "It's all Wise's fault"? UV asks

 

Yet you think Keegan signed up to be Jimenez' lacky? You think he signed up knowing the hierarchy would be Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan

 

I'd hardly call the authorisation of spending millions of pounds on players micro-managing btw.

 

Well, yes and no.

 

He said (with some cheekiness I'm sure) "I didn't have a brochure this time. It came like a whirlwind it is like one of those Lastminute.com holidays! There was no brochure I just came." Secondly, Wise had yet to be appointed, though one must assume negotiations with Wise had already commenced. So no, Keegan was not explicitly told that the hierarchy was Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan.

 

However, if you think Ashley and Mort hired Keegan without telling him about the imminent appointment of an executive director (football), that Ashley and Mort duped Keegan into believing he would be an old-school manager with sweeping powers while secretly planning to go in exactly the opposite direction, well... I'll take Kaka's logic over yours thanks.

 

 

raconteur, very few people want to hear this, instead they prefer the following word associations:

 

cockney, lies, wise, southerner, season tickets, 3 years, fabrication, conspiracy

 

KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism

 

i'm still astounded that after years of shepherd leasing warehouses to the club, ridiculing the supporters publicly, taking massive dividends despite deteriorating results on the pitch (etc...) was affored so much time and never once was there a talk of a boycott of club products, marches, none of this s***...before anyone starts about balancing the books i'll point you to bobby robsons first 2 seasons for a parrallel on spend and manager...also to the sacking of bobby as well really

 

is anyone gonna look me in the internet eye and tell me this doesn't just boil down to a nice bit of dirty regionalism against a southern owner and nasty dennis?

 

anyone?  really?

 

 

 

if you want answers to that you just have to look over the board, probably hundreds of counter arguments. specifically the inaccurate "robson's first two seasons" stuff which has been responded to quite a few times. and i'm not sure what people are getting at by bringing up the Robson sacking as it is some defence of this board. are people saying "well shepherd did it so ashley is allowed to as well"? that's bloody daft if so. i criticised shepherd for his undermining of robson and handling of his departure, i'll do the same for Ashley in this equivalent situation. either you do it for both or neither, otherwise it's being blindly partisan.

 

s**** like "KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism" does everyone on here a disservice.

 

fuckof  johhny that's pish to be honest

 

i don't offer the robson book balancing as an excuse for ashley but it's the only reasonable thing i can see for people kicking off so much, the lack of spending...if it's not about the club not spending money on players then people should stop spouting the 3 years ST s*** no?  otherwise what're they fucken complaining about on that score?

 

this lies s*** is unreal - KK fucken lied to you all summer saying everything was OK didn't he?  that he had a wondeful relationship with everyone at the club, there was money to spend etc...

 

or were his lies OK 'cause he loved the club but ashleys/nasty dennis's are not OK for what reason exactly?

 

'fuckof  johhny that's pish'

 

are you drunk or something?

 

the Robson thing is rubbish because he was allowed to spend more once we had a cash windfall by way of the stadium expansion. if you want to look for an equivalent development today you look at the £18m extra TV money we received at the end of last season compared to the one before, along with the £6m saved in debt repayments. considering we broke even in our last accounts that should give us over £20m net to spend, or, if we want to be ambitious and use next season's income in advance, as many other clubs do, at least £40m. Mackems have spent something like £70m since coming up, and transfer inflation in general has spiked - overall summer spending gone from something like £265m to £540m in 2 years. yet we've spent little to nothing since ashley arrived.

 

personally i find facts like this more important than s**** like 'fuckof johhny' which you apparently find so superior.

 

as for Keegan lying, maybe he was putting on a brave face and trying to battle through the undermining and ridiculing as Robson did before him, and thought that while the window was open there was a still a chance he could leverage his position to get what we wanted for the club. or, as many assumed earlier in the window, that he had some sort of working relationship and consensus that disintegrated - perhaps because the two sides were squabbling over limited funds, and this came to a head in the last days of the window.

 

I think it's embarrassing how much people are caught up on how much we have spent. Comparing how much we have spent to the Mackems is laughable.

 

I take it that you would then prefer to exchange all the players Ashley has brought in for those that Quinn has, simply because they cost more. it's a silly way of thinking about things.

 

The fact is that we have brought in quality players under this new setup that Ashley has put in place, irrespective of the total cost of these players.

 

I personally am also inclined to believe that these sorts of purchases would have continued to be made if Keegan was familiar with more of these types of players, and was also not so caught up in keeping the likes of Smith and Barton.

 

 

[mrmojorisin75]

 

Wise is in charge of Jimenez, Vetere, and the coaches, and reports directly to Llambias, it's quite clear:

 

http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1227633,00.html

 

He is clearly the one in ultimate charge of deciding who we sign and who we sell. If he chose to sign a player the manager specifically said he didn't want, which is Keegan's claim, then he is the person most responsible on the club's side for the consequences.

 

In such case I have no doubt whatsoever such a dispute would have been referred immediately to Llambias.

 

It's all speculation, but very good points are being made by the likes of KaKa, Edd, mrmojo et al - and not being adequately refuted. mrmojorisin75 suggests:

 

exactly edd - it all either points to something that wasn't cynical by the club but merely a breakdown over time between the parties involved

 

OR

 

keegan, as you say, was unhappy and had no say the whole time yet lied to the thousands of fans buying season tickets and let them pay 3 years in advance only to up ship and run at the last minute when it was all too late

 

if you believe he was lied to from day one then he's equally culpable in this respect, no?

 

So can Keegan's supporters please come up with something other than "It's all speculative bollocks" or "It's all Wise's fault"? UV asks

 

Yet you think Keegan signed up to be Jimenez' lacky? You think he signed up knowing the hierarchy would be Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan

 

I'd hardly call the authorisation of spending millions of pounds on players micro-managing btw.

 

Well, yes and no.

 

He said (with some cheekiness I'm sure) "I didn't have a brochure this time. It came like a whirlwind it is like one of those Lastminute.com holidays! There was no brochure I just came." Secondly, Wise had yet to be appointed, though one must assume negotiations with Wise had already commenced. So no, Keegan was not explicitly told that the hierarchy was Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan.

 

However, if you think Ashley and Mort hired Keegan without telling him about the imminent appointment of an executive director (football), that Ashley and Mort duped Keegan into believing he would be an old-school manager with sweeping powers while secretly planning to go in exactly the opposite direction, well... I'll take Kaka's logic over yours thanks.

 

 

raconteur, very few people want to hear this, instead they prefer the following word associations:

 

cockney, lies, wise, southerner, season tickets, 3 years, fabrication, conspiracy

 

KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism

 

i'm still astounded that after years of shepherd leasing warehouses to the club, ridiculing the supporters publicly, taking massive dividends despite deteriorating results on the pitch (etc...) was affored so much time and never once was there a talk of a boycott of club products, marches, none of this shit...before anyone starts about balancing the books i'll point you to bobby robsons first 2 seasons for a parrallel on spend and manager...also to the sacking of bobby as well really

 

is anyone gonna look me in the internet eye and tell me this doesn't just boil down to a nice bit of dirty regionalism against a southern owner and nasty dennis?

 

anyone?  really?

 

 

 

if you want answers to that you just have to look over the board, probably hundreds of counter arguments. specifically the inaccurate "robson's first two seasons" stuff which has been responded to quite a few times. and i'm not sure what people are getting at by bringing up the Robson sacking as it is some defence of this board. are people saying "well shepherd did it so ashley is allowed to as well"? that's bloody daft if so. i criticised shepherd for his undermining of robson and handling of his departure, i'll do the same for Ashley in this equivalent situation. either you do it for both or neither, otherwise it's being blindly partisan.

 

shite like "KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism" does everyone on here a disservice.

 

fuckof  johhny that's pish to be honest

 

i don't offer the robson book balancing as an excuse for ashley but it's the only reasonable thing i can see for people kicking off so much, the lack of spending...if it's not about the club not spending money on players then people should stop spouting the 3 years ST shit no?  otherwise what're they fucken complaining about on that score?

 

this lies shit is unreal - KK fucken lied to you all summer saying everything was OK didn't he?  that he had a wondeful relationship with everyone at the club, there was money to spend etc...

 

or were his lies OK 'cause he loved the club but ashleys/nasty dennis's are not OK for what reason exactly?

 

'fuckof  johhny that's pish'

 

are you drunk or something?

 

the Robson thing is rubbish because he was allowed to spend more once we had a cash windfall by way of the stadium expansion. if you want to look for an equivalent development today you look at the £18m extra TV money we received at the end of last season compared to the one before, along with the £6m saved in debt repayments. considering we broke even in our last accounts that should give us over £20m net to spend, or, if we want to be ambitious and use next season's income in advance, as many other clubs do, at least £40m. Mackems have spent something like £70m since coming up, and transfer inflation in general has spiked - overall summer spending gone from something like £265m to £540m in 2 years. yet we've spent little to nothing since ashley arrived.

 

personally i find facts like this more important than shite like 'fuckof johhny' which you apparently find so superior.

 

as for Keegan lying, maybe he was putting on a brave face and trying to battle through the undermining and ridiculing as Robson did before him, and thought that while the window was open there was a still a chance he could leverage his position to get what we wanted for the club. or, as many assumed earlier in the window, that he had some sort of working relationship and consensus that disintegrated - perhaps because the two sides were squabbling over limited funds, and this came to a head in the last days of the window.

 

wasn't an angry 'fuck off' mate, more a conversation one!  apologies

 

anyways your facts about the robson part - why are they so different from now?  if you know me you'll know i've been highly critical of the spend under MA but i'm trying to be devils advocate here; the man was forced to pay off 60m (min?) of debt when he took the club over...is it not plausible to think he might take the TV money for a season or two, balance the books on transfers (as bobby had) to then spend when he sees fit? 

 

are those not facts in the same way yours are?  you and i know that ashley could spend now and recoup the money later, as shepherd could have given bobby the money based on the windfall he should have known was coming

 

these are the reasons i see it as relevant johnny

 

keegan lying can be deemed putting a brave face on things but ashley doing the same can not? 

 

 

[mrmojorisin75]

So instead of taking my points seriously, you choose to ignore them to support your argument. Nicely done!

 

Come on: Ashley has lied about who got to decide upon transfers and that there would be money available, that the squad would be expanded. If Dennis Wise et al were doing their job, which I believe they were doing (because if not, they would have gone and Keegan would have stayed), Mike Ashley lied. This is an owner who claimed he wanted to win something, but who's clearly satisfied with a bottom half finish.

 

guess you're referring to me?

 

can you clearly identify a timeline of events with key statements that prove ashley lied and keegan had no knowledge or culpability in events?

 

if you can i'll read it and judge, until then i'm going to continue to assume that it's largely speculation and hearsay based on pieced together interviews and articles from various places

 

is the part in bold a fact or a lie though?  i'm confused?

 

again i'll ask, why the vitriol Mongo?  please try to explain that to me without the presence of dennis wise (primary culprit allegedly) and a southern-based billionaire owner...

[dcmk]

We all know Keegan loves the club wouldnt want to hurt us if he had a choice.  He was undermined, so resigned.

 

Any manager worth their salt would do the same.  KK is completely blame free.

[KaKa]

We all know Keegan loves the club wouldnt want to hurt us if he had a choice.  He was undermined, so resigned.

 

Any manager worth their salt would do the same.  KK is completely blame free.

 

Based on what?

 

You would think Keegan was the pope the way some people on here go on about him.

[mrmojorisin75]

We all know Keegan loves the club wouldnt want to hurt us if he had a choice.  He was undermined, so resigned.

 

Any manager worth their salt would do the same.  KK is completely blame free.

 

yet you knowashley would want to hurt us?  is what i'm reading into that...

 

do tell...

[mrmojorisin75]

kaka you getting tired of this yet?

[Guest Dr_Delirium]

Gomis, Arda, Derdiyok, Sahin, Gomez, Pandev, Garay, Veloso, Digard, Chamakh, Skjelbred and many more.

 

There seemed to be quite a good number of promisingyoungsters who we were very strongly linked with this summer, and who it seems fit the criteria of the type of player the club wanted to see brought in.

 

You have to wonder if this squabbling between KK and the board effectively meant we couldn't seal deals for a number of them, as I doubt KK would have been familiar with them at all, especially as it now appears this squabbling has been going on from pretty early on.

 

I also imagine bringing some of these players in would have to have meant the sale of the higher earners who weren't really performing for us anymore i.e. Duff, Barton, Smith and maybe even Owen. However, these were also players KK apparently refused to let go.

 

Only God knows what kind of squad we might have assembled this summer, had we not had KK in charge. You really do have to wonder.

 

I'm pretty sure it was never a case of Ashley not wanting to invest more in the team this summer, but wanting to do so only after more of the high earners who weren't really contributing much, had been moved on.

 

Tbh I think KK screwed us royally from that standpoint. Very frustrating.

 

Damn Kaka, after all the s*** this week how can you stay so positive about the Newcastle board. It's like they're paying you for saying this nonsense and bad-mouthing Keegan.

[Bad Mongo]

guess you're referring to me?

 

can you clearly identify a timeline of events with key statements that prove ashley lied and keegan had no knowledge or culpability in events?

 

if you can i'll read it and judge, until then i'm going to continue to assume that it's largely speculation and hearsay based on pieced together interviews and articles from various places

 

is the part in bold a fact or a lie though?  i'm confused?

 

again i'll ask, why the vitriol Mongo?  please try to explain that to me without the presence of dennis wise (primary culprit allegedly) and a southern-based billionaire owner...

 

I have obviously no way of knowing what Keegan knew and when he knew it. I believe (and believed) he lied when he said it was his decision to sell Milner, but the reason for it is different: he needed to show that he was in charge. But if it was always part of the deal that he wouldn't be in charge of signings, it would make no sense to claim so. The difference between the lies is that Keegan's protect his authority, which is being undermined by the board, whereas Ashley's are fraudulent.

 

Those "pieced together interviews and articles from various places" are all from official club publications, by the way. Match day programmes and that NUFC magazine.

 

The part in bold is based on a) the owner having sold the club to Keegan on the ambition to win something and b) us not even properly replacing all outgoing players. There is a huge gap between stated long term plans and the will to implement those plans. In fact, there's no sign that those actually were the plans at any time.

 

When you ask "why the vitriol" I have to ask whether you can read. Where is this so-called vitriol? It's nowhere to be found. What I've written is an objective criticism: on the one hand, what has been said by the owner, on the other hand what has been done by the club. If you call that "vitriol", it must be because you're mentally challenged.

 

I've never attacked Wise or Ashley for being southerners, so I see no reason to answer to your last point.

[KaKa]

kaka you getting tired of this yet?

 

Very tired ...

 

Apparently Keegan can do no wrong and Ashley can do no right, and it's as simple as that. No questions asked.

 

Quite frankly, I very much doubt that myself.

 

 

[mrmojorisin75]

guess you're referring to me?

 

can you clearly identify a timeline of events with key statements that prove ashley lied and keegan had no knowledge or culpability in events?

 

if you can i'll read it and judge, until then i'm going to continue to assume that it's largely speculation and hearsay based on pieced together interviews and articles from various places

 

is the part in bold a fact or a lie though?  i'm confused?

 

again i'll ask, why the vitriol Mongo?  please try to explain that to me without the presence of dennis wise (primary culprit allegedly) and a southern-based billionaire owner...

 

I have obviously no way of knowing what Keegan knew and when he knew it. I believe (and believed) he lied when he said it was his decision to sell Milner, but the reason for it is different: he needed to show that he was in charge. But if it was always part of the deal that he wouldn't be in charge of signings, it would make no sense to claim so. The difference between the lies is that Keegan's protect his authority, which is being undermined by the board, whereas Ashley's are fraudulent.

 

Those "pieced together interviews and articles from various places" are all from official club publications, by the way. Match day programmes and that NUFC magazine.

 

The part in bold is based on a) the owner having sold the club to Keegan on the ambition to win something and b) us not even properly replacing all outgoing players. There is a huge gap between stated long term plans and the will to implement those plans. In fact, there's no sign that those actually were the plans at any time.

 

When you ask "why the vitriol" I have to ask whether you can read. Where is this so-called vitriol? It's nowhere to be found. What I've written is an objective criticism: on the one hand, what has been said by the owner, on the other hand what has been done by the club. If you call that "vitriol", it must be because you're mentally challenged.

 

I've never attacked Wise or Ashley for being southerners, so I see no reason to answer to your last point.

 

not your vitriol, the general vitriol which exist all over the place which you can't deny really, can you?  the air of militancy was what caused me to post today, it's nuts!  we're talking about hitting ashley in the pocket and a co-ordinated march when it never occurred to anyone to do this in the past despite arguably greater mismanagement of the club over a far longer period

 

there is massive leap being made here and i'm interested in what it is, "lying" simply doesn't cut it for me...i'm attributing it to the dennis wise/cockney cunt faction as i can see nothing else to inspire it, can you?

 

there are huge gaps in your logic and train of thought, i'm pleased you can see that though

[Colos Short and Curlies]

guess you're referring to me?

 

can you clearly identify a timeline of events with key statements that prove ashley lied and keegan had no knowledge or culpability in events?

 

if you can i'll read it and judge, until then i'm going to continue to assume that it's largely speculation and hearsay based on pieced together interviews and articles from various places

 

is the part in bold a fact or a lie though?  i'm confused?

 

again i'll ask, why the vitriol Mongo?  please try to explain that to me without the presence of dennis wise (primary culprit allegedly) and a southern-based billionaire owner...

 

I have obviously no way of knowing what Keegan knew and when he knew it. I believe (and believed) he lied when he said it was his decision to sell Milner, but the reason for it is different: he needed to show that he was in charge. But if it was always part of the deal that he wouldn't be in charge of signings, it would make no sense to claim so. The difference between the lies is that Keegan's protect his authority, which is being undermined by the board, whereas Ashley's are fraudulent.

 

 

But if the story is to be believed Keegan was told that Schweinsteiger was all but signed but Milner would have to be sold to fund the deal.

 

This would fit with Keegan saying that it was his decision to sell Milner as it would allow the club to move forward and we should judge the sale after the deadline.

 

Most managers would agree to selling Milner for £12m if they were getting Schweinsteiger in return - hence it is not a lie to say that it was not his decision. It may not have been his idea and he may have been happy to keep Milner if Schweinsteiger had not been available, but if you are offered something and accept it then it is your decision.

 

What happened after that however is another story!

[mrmojorisin75]

kaka you getting tired of this yet?

 

Very tired ...

 

Apparently Keegan can do no wrong and Ashley can do no right, and it's as simple as that. No questions asked.

 

Quite frankly, I very much doubt that myself.

 

 

 

i've had enough of this now, i know i'm talking sense as are you, Edd and so on [and baggio although he's winding the fuck out of people;) ] but no-one wants to listen

 

nasty dennis, lying mike, boycott, march, protest etc...

 

enjoy it

[dcmk]

We all know Keegan loves the club wouldnt want to hurt us if he had a choice.  He was undermined, so resigned.

 

Any manager worth their salt would do the same.  KK is completely blame free.

 

Based on what?

 

You would think Keegan was the pope the way some people on here go on about him.

 

If your a manager and you one day get a player you dont want.  You are being undermined no?

 

Why would/should he stand for that?  So he quit.

It's pretty obvious tbh.

[dcmk]

We all know Keegan loves the club wouldnt want to hurt us if he had a choice.  He was undermined, so resigned.

 

Any manager worth their salt would do the same.  KK is completely blame free.

 

yet you knowashley would want to hurt us?  is what i'm reading into that...

 

do tell...

 

...and where did i mention Ashley

 

 

[mrmojorisin75]

We all know Keegan loves the club wouldnt want to hurt us if he had a choice.  He was undermined, so resigned.

 

Any manager worth their salt would do the same.  KK is completely blame free.

 

yet you knowashley would want to hurt us?  is what i'm reading into that...

 

do tell...

 

...and where did i mention Ashley

 

 

 

you didn't, that's why i said i'm reading that into it

 

but by saying keegan is blameless by implication you're saying someone else is not surely?

[dcmk]

We all know Keegan loves the club wouldnt want to hurt us if he had a choice.  He was undermined, so resigned.

 

Any manager worth their salt would do the same.  KK is completely blame free.

 

yet you knowashley would want to hurt us?  is what i'm reading into that...

 

do tell...

 

...and where did i mention Ashley

 

 

 

you didn't, that's why i said i'm reading that into it

 

but by saying keegan is blameless by implication you're saying someone else is not surely?

 

Whoever brought in the player(s) without KK approval is the person responsible for KK walking.  Or am i wrong?