Did Keegan turn them all down?

[Guest Edd]

We all know Keegan loves the club wouldnt want to hurt us if he had a choice.  He was undermined, so resigned.

 

Any manager worth their salt would do the same.  KK is completely blame free.

 

yet you knowashley would want to hurt us?  is what i'm reading into that...

 

do tell...

 

...and where did i mention Ashley

 

 

 

you didn't, that's why i said i'm reading that into it

 

but by saying keegan is blameless by implication you're saying someone else is not surely?

 

Whoever brought in the player(s) without KK approval is the person responsible for KK walking.  Or am i wrong?

 

You're very wrong if they were only doing the job they were employed to do.

[TRon]

We all know Keegan loves the club wouldnt want to hurt us if he had a choice.  He was undermined, so resigned.

 

Any manager worth their salt would do the same.  KK is completely blame free.

 

yet you knowashley would want to hurt us?  is what i'm reading into that...

 

do tell...

 

...and where did i mention Ashley

 

 

 

you didn't, that's why i said i'm reading that into it

 

but by saying keegan is blameless by implication you're saying someone else is not surely?

 

Whoever brought in the player(s) without KK approval is the person responsible for KK walking.  Or am i wrong?

 

If KK didn't want the players because he'd never heard of them, but they turned out to be good...who would be wrong?

[dcmk]

We all know Keegan loves the club wouldnt want to hurt us if he had a choice.  He was undermined, so resigned.

 

Any manager worth their salt would do the same.  KK is completely blame free.

 

yet you knowashley would want to hurt us?  is what i'm reading into that...

 

do tell...

 

...and where did i mention Ashley

 

 

 

you didn't, that's why i said i'm reading that into it

 

but by saying keegan is blameless by implication you're saying someone else is not surely?

 

Whoever brought in the player(s) without KK approval is the person responsible for KK walking.  Or am i wrong?

 

If KK didn't want the players because he'd never heard of them, but they turned out to be good...who would be wrong?

 

Everyone keeps saying IF ffs.

Fact is in Keegans own statement said he was undermined!  That meant he wasn't allowed to do his job and he was working with players he didnt want.  What kind of manager would take that?

 

Doesn't matter if the players were good or not, he didnt have final say.   

[Raconteur]

Everyone keeps saying IF ffs.

Fact is in Keegans own statement said he was undermined!  That meant he wasn't allowed to do his job and he was working with players he didnt want.  What kind of manager would take that?

 

Doesn't matter if the players were good or not, he didnt have final say.   

 

Did you bother to read anyone else's opinion, or did you just start spouting this shit thoughtlessly...?

 

Keegan has lied repeatedly, why do you believe him? Of course he's not going to be honest and say "Yeah, if I hadn't have been so pig-headed and actually gotten on with the job I was hired to do, then I'd still be boss of NUFC"

 

[dilligaf]

if he was allowed to do the job he was hired to do, there wouldnt have been all this trouble

[AyeDubbleYoo]

He was doing the job he was hired to do wasn't he? That just didn't include signing players, and he thought it should.

 

Whether or not he knew that from the start is the only real question.

[Slugsy]

Whether or not he knew that from the start is the only real question.

 

Good point - I would be astonished given the last time if Keegan accepted the job under the proviso a DOF was in charge of signings.

[dilligaf]

He was doing the job he was hired to do wasn't he? That just didn't include signing players, and he thought it should.

 

Whether or not he knew that from the start is the only real question.

Well said

Pages and pages of speculation and arguements summed up in two lines, and its something we'll never know for sure, only what we believe or want to believe.

[johnnypd]

 

Wise is in charge of Jimenez, Vetere, and the coaches, and reports directly to Llambias, it's quite clear:

 

http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1227633,00.html

 

He is clearly the one in ultimate charge of deciding who we sign and who we sell. If he chose to sign a player the manager specifically said he didn't want, which is Keegan's claim, then he is the person most responsible on the club's side for the consequences.

 

In such case I have no doubt whatsoever such a dispute would have been referred immediately to Llambias.

 

It's all speculation, but very good points are being made by the likes of KaKa, Edd, mrmojo et al - and not being adequately refuted. mrmojorisin75 suggests:

 

exactly edd - it all either points to something that wasn't cynical by the club but merely a breakdown over time between the parties involved

 

OR

 

keegan, as you say, was unhappy and had no say the whole time yet lied to the thousands of fans buying season tickets and let them pay 3 years in advance only to up ship and run at the last minute when it was all too late

 

if you believe he was lied to from day one then he's equally culpable in this respect, no?

 

So can Keegan's supporters please come up with something other than "It's all speculative bollocks" or "It's all Wise's fault"? UV asks

 

Yet you think Keegan signed up to be Jimenez' lacky? You think he signed up knowing the hierarchy would be Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan

 

I'd hardly call the authorisation of spending millions of pounds on players micro-managing btw.

 

Well, yes and no.

 

He said (with some cheekiness I'm sure) "I didn't have a brochure this time. It came like a whirlwind it is like one of those Lastminute.com holidays! There was no brochure I just came." Secondly, Wise had yet to be appointed, though one must assume negotiations with Wise had already commenced. So no, Keegan was not explicitly told that the hierarchy was Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan.

 

However, if you think Ashley and Mort hired Keegan without telling him about the imminent appointment of an executive director (football), that Ashley and Mort duped Keegan into believing he would be an old-school manager with sweeping powers while secretly planning to go in exactly the opposite direction, well... I'll take Kaka's logic over yours thanks.

 

 

raconteur, very few people want to hear this, instead they prefer the following word associations:

 

cockney, lies, wise, southerner, season tickets, 3 years, fabrication, conspiracy

 

KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism

 

i'm still astounded that after years of shepherd leasing warehouses to the club, ridiculing the supporters publicly, taking massive dividends despite deteriorating results on the pitch (etc...) was affored so much time and never once was there a talk of a boycott of club products, marches, none of this shit...before anyone starts about balancing the books i'll point you to bobby robsons first 2 seasons for a parrallel on spend and manager...also to the sacking of bobby as well really

 

is anyone gonna look me in the internet eye and tell me this doesn't just boil down to a nice bit of dirty regionalism against a southern owner and nasty dennis?

 

anyone?  really?

 

 

 

if you want answers to that you just have to look over the board, probably hundreds of counter arguments. specifically the inaccurate "robson's first two seasons" stuff which has been responded to quite a few times. and i'm not sure what people are getting at by bringing up the Robson sacking as it is some defence of this board. are people saying "well shepherd did it so ashley is allowed to as well"? that's bloody daft if so. i criticised shepherd for his undermining of robson and handling of his departure, i'll do the same for Ashley in this equivalent situation. either you do it for both or neither, otherwise it's being blindly partisan.

 

shite like "KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism" does everyone on here a disservice.

 

fuckof  johhny that's pish to be honest

 

i don't offer the robson book balancing as an excuse for ashley but it's the only reasonable thing i can see for people kicking off so much, the lack of spending...if it's not about the club not spending money on players then people should stop spouting the 3 years ST shit no?  otherwise what're they fucken complaining about on that score?

 

this lies shit is unreal - KK fucken lied to you all summer saying everything was OK didn't he?  that he had a wondeful relationship with everyone at the club, there was money to spend etc...

 

or were his lies OK 'cause he loved the club but ashleys/nasty dennis's are not OK for what reason exactly?

 

'fuckof  johhny that's pish'

 

are you drunk or something?

 

the Robson thing is rubbish because he was allowed to spend more once we had a cash windfall by way of the stadium expansion. if you want to look for an equivalent development today you look at the £18m extra TV money we received at the end of last season compared to the one before, along with the £6m saved in debt repayments. considering we broke even in our last accounts that should give us over £20m net to spend, or, if we want to be ambitious and use next season's income in advance, as many other clubs do, at least £40m. Mackems have spent something like £70m since coming up, and transfer inflation in general has spiked - overall summer spending gone from something like £265m to £540m in 2 years. yet we've spent little to nothing since ashley arrived.

 

personally i find facts like this more important than shite like 'fuckof johhny' which you apparently find so superior.

 

as for Keegan lying, maybe he was putting on a brave face and trying to battle through the undermining and ridiculing as Robson did before him, and thought that while the window was open there was a still a chance he could leverage his position to get what we wanted for the club. or, as many assumed earlier in the window, that he had some sort of working relationship and consensus that disintegrated - perhaps because the two sides were squabbling over limited funds, and this came to a head in the last days of the window.

 

It could also be argued that Robson was 'allowed to spend' once he had removed the high earners such as Maric and Ferguson from the wage bill.

 

As for the spending next seasons income in advance or 'where has the TV money gone', we still owe £25m on past transfers - there goes the £20m that you suggest should be available.

 

I'm not Shepherd bashing or Ashley licking - although I am on record on this board supporting the model which it had appeared we were following up to deadline day, but I do find it funny how very similar events (such as Robsons spending constraints in season 1 and 2 vs Ashleys spending or Keegan walking due to constraints on his spending in 96 (needing to raise £6m to cover the shearer fee by selling Ferdinand) and now) can be twisted by both sides to appear to be completely different, when in fact they show numerous key similarities

 

i'm sure that £20m + we still owe on transfers should be considered part of the debt, so it seems Ashley was lying when he said the club didnt owe a penny to anyone. i'd imagine we're also owed money on transfers too, that's the way they tend to be structured these days. i'd imagine the same is true for all clubs but it doesnt stop them spending. i don't think robson shifted the high earners either - Shearer was at the club, Speed was at the club, Dyer was at the club etc. not that we SHOULD be shifting them, if they are good players and represent good value then by all means keep them. and we only saved £2m in wages before Robson brought in Bellamy and Robert, which more than made up for the £2m as the payroll then went up by almost £9m straight after that. as i said, the reason can be more readily put down to stadium expansion which increased gate money by £8m from 2000 to 2002 and commercial revenues by £3m. and a modern day equivalent of a boost to revenues would be tv money, only that's much bigger and its more pressing we invest now that other clubs can more ably spend big too. most teams spend ahead of receiving the money LAST summer, not to mention this summer, so that's 2 years in which we've failed to show ambition in the transfer market which to me is very, very worrying.

[Baggio]

 

Wise is in charge of Jimenez, Vetere, and the coaches, and reports directly to Llambias, it's quite clear:

 

http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1227633,00.html

 

He is clearly the one in ultimate charge of deciding who we sign and who we sell. If he chose to sign a player the manager specifically said he didn't want, which is Keegan's claim, then he is the person most responsible on the club's side for the consequences.

 

In such case I have no doubt whatsoever such a dispute would have been referred immediately to Llambias.

 

It's all speculation, but very good points are being made by the likes of KaKa, Edd, mrmojo et al - and not being adequately refuted. mrmojorisin75 suggests:

 

exactly edd - it all either points to something that wasn't cynical by the club but merely a breakdown over time between the parties involved

 

OR

 

keegan, as you say, was unhappy and had no say the whole time yet lied to the thousands of fans buying season tickets and let them pay 3 years in advance only to up ship and run at the last minute when it was all too late

 

if you believe he was lied to from day one then he's equally culpable in this respect, no?

 

So can Keegan's supporters please come up with something other than "It's all speculative bollocks" or "It's all Wise's fault"? UV asks

 

Yet you think Keegan signed up to be Jimenez' lacky? You think he signed up knowing the hierarchy would be Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan

 

I'd hardly call the authorisation of spending millions of pounds on players micro-managing btw.

 

Well, yes and no.

 

He said (with some cheekiness I'm sure) "I didn't have a brochure this time. It came like a whirlwind — it is like one of those Lastminute.com holidays! There was no brochure — I just came." Secondly, Wise had yet to be appointed, though one must assume negotiations with Wise had already commenced. So no, Keegan was not explicitly told that the hierarchy was Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan.

 

However, if you think Ashley and Mort hired Keegan without telling him about the imminent appointment of an executive director (football), that Ashley and Mort duped Keegan into believing he would be an old-school manager with sweeping powers while secretly planning to go in exactly the opposite direction, well... I'll take Kaka's logic over yours thanks.

 

 

raconteur, very few people want to hear this, instead they prefer the following word associations:

 

cockney, lies, wise, southerner, season tickets, 3 years, fabrication, conspiracy

 

KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism

 

i'm still astounded that after years of shepherd leasing warehouses to the club, ridiculing the supporters publicly, taking massive dividends despite deteriorating results on the pitch (etc...) was affored so much time and never once was there a talk of a boycott of club products, marches, none of this shit...before anyone starts about balancing the books i'll point you to bobby robsons first 2 seasons for a parrallel on spend and manager...also to the sacking of bobby as well really

 

is anyone gonna look me in the internet eye and tell me this doesn't just boil down to a nice bit of dirty regionalism against a southern owner and nasty dennis?

 

anyone?  really?

 

 

 

Well said.

 

Hopefully they take Keegan to court so the truth can come out and get the £2 million he owes the club in the process.

[johnnypd]

 

Wise is in charge of Jimenez, Vetere, and the coaches, and reports directly to Llambias, it's quite clear:

 

http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1227633,00.html

 

He is clearly the one in ultimate charge of deciding who we sign and who we sell. If he chose to sign a player the manager specifically said he didn't want, which is Keegan's claim, then he is the person most responsible on the club's side for the consequences.

 

In such case I have no doubt whatsoever such a dispute would have been referred immediately to Llambias.

 

It's all speculation, but very good points are being made by the likes of KaKa, Edd, mrmojo et al - and not being adequately refuted. mrmojorisin75 suggests:

 

exactly edd - it all either points to something that wasn't cynical by the club but merely a breakdown over time between the parties involved

 

OR

 

keegan, as you say, was unhappy and had no say the whole time yet lied to the thousands of fans buying season tickets and let them pay 3 years in advance only to up ship and run at the last minute when it was all too late

 

if you believe he was lied to from day one then he's equally culpable in this respect, no?

 

So can Keegan's supporters please come up with something other than "It's all speculative bollocks" or "It's all Wise's fault"? UV asks

 

Yet you think Keegan signed up to be Jimenez' lacky? You think he signed up knowing the hierarchy would be Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan

 

I'd hardly call the authorisation of spending millions of pounds on players micro-managing btw.

 

Well, yes and no.

 

He said (with some cheekiness I'm sure) "I didn't have a brochure this time. It came like a whirlwind — it is like one of those Lastminute.com holidays! There was no brochure — I just came." Secondly, Wise had yet to be appointed, though one must assume negotiations with Wise had already commenced. So no, Keegan was not explicitly told that the hierarchy was Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan.

 

However, if you think Ashley and Mort hired Keegan without telling him about the imminent appointment of an executive director (football), that Ashley and Mort duped Keegan into believing he would be an old-school manager with sweeping powers while secretly planning to go in exactly the opposite direction, well... I'll take Kaka's logic over yours thanks.

 

 

raconteur, very few people want to hear this, instead they prefer the following word associations:

 

cockney, lies, wise, southerner, season tickets, 3 years, fabrication, conspiracy

 

KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism

 

i'm still astounded that after years of shepherd leasing warehouses to the club, ridiculing the supporters publicly, taking massive dividends despite deteriorating results on the pitch (etc...) was affored so much time and never once was there a talk of a boycott of club products, marches, none of this shit...before anyone starts about balancing the books i'll point you to bobby robsons first 2 seasons for a parrallel on spend and manager...also to the sacking of bobby as well really

 

is anyone gonna look me in the internet eye and tell me this doesn't just boil down to a nice bit of dirty regionalism against a southern owner and nasty dennis?

 

anyone?  really?

 

 

 

Well said.

 

Hopefully they take Keegan to court so the truth can come out and get the £2 million he owes the club in the process.

 

anyone wanting them to proceed with that legal action does not have the best interests of the club at heart. it'll just cause a shitload of bother for no good reason. even if they get their £2m, total phyrric victory beyond belief.

[Ant1815]

Sorry for the long post. I'm off work and a bit bored at the moment. Please feel free to ignore

 

He was doing the job he was hired to do wasn't he? That just didn't include signing players, and he thought it should.

 

Whether or not he knew that from the start is the only real question.

 

That's the crux of the entire matter: Did Keegan know from the beginning exactly what his role was?

 

There are a lot of unknowns in this matter, and people are filling in the blanks with speculation, naturally enough. It's been especially difficult considering that a great many statements from both Keegan and the club have been contradicted by other statements that each have made.

 

I think that in this situation we need to vigorously apply occam's razor: Make as few assumptions as possible and ensure that the assumptions we do have to make are the simplest and most logical possible.

 

With this in mind I'm firmly putting the blame on Ashley for this. Not because Keegan is the messiah, or because Ashley is a southern t***er, or because Wise is a dwarf, but because it's the only simple and logical conclusion I can come up with.

 

Did Keegan know from the start exactly what his role was?

 

We know for a fact that he had a meeting with Ashley prior to his taking the job. We know that he discussed what plans Ashley had for the club. We know these as facts because both parties have said this, and because it would be virually unthinkable for it not to happen prior to taking on a job like this. This meeting must have spelled out Keegan's exact role. If it didn't then there's blame on both parties: Keegan for not asking and Ashley for not telling. In this potential situation I think that slightly more of the blame goes to Ashley: He's the top man and he needs to get his team in place with the right people. If he's put a man like Keegan in this position without spelling out exactly what he needs then it's his fault if it all goes pear shaped later.

 

However, I do think that Keegan's role was spelled out. I simply can't accept that two men like Ashley and Keegan had a meeting about this and neither one of them thought to bring this up. I firmly believe that both parties were aware of exactly what Keegan was here to do and how to do it.

 

That still leaves the big question of course, essentially: What exactly was Keegan's role? Was it to bring players in himself, leave the player acquisitions to others, or a combination of the two?

 

We don't know 100% for sure about this. It's one of the big speculations, and surely the linchpin of the entire argument, both for and against the two parties. Of the three above possibilities I think we can eliminate one entirely: Leaving player acquisition to others. I think the vast majority here would agree that Keegan would never agree to that. Keegan's detractors may claim that he might have agreed to this hoping to get his foot in the door and then putting pressure on to do things his way later, similar to his first walk out under Sir John Hall. However, statements made by both parties that Keegan had final say on players would seem to dismiss that argument.

 

So we're left with two remaining possibilities: Keegan was entirely responsible for new signings, or partially responsible with final say on Players. Many statements from both parties, as well as the events that transpired; such as the appointment of Wise, would point to the second option: Keegan was only partially responsible for bringing in players, but had the final word.

 

I'm utterly convinced that that was the scenario both parties understood and worked to. What Is undeniable is the fact that it all went pear shaped along the line somewhere. In hindsight it was the worst scenario possible of the three. If Keegan had no say whatsoever then he likely would never have taken the job in the first place. If Keegan had total authority on transfers then there wouldn't have been a conflict of this nature. The very setup that was agreed was flawed because it had so much potential, from both parties, for misunderstanding and, what the media like to call 'Mission creep'

 

The only real question left is this: Who overstepped the boundaries, who decided to push the limits of what their understood role was? Any answer to that is going to be speculative, but I think that a very logical and simple explanation seems to fit.

 

Ashley is a man who likely knows as little about football as there is to know, but he isn't stupid. He'll have people who are knowledgeable about football talking to him; mainly Keegan, Wise and Kemsley. these three people...and maybe a couple of others will be letting him know their ideas of taking a football club forward...and I'd seriously doubt that they'd all be saying the same thing. Somewhere at some point I think that Ashley liked what he was hearing from Wise and Kemsley rather than Keegan. Probably, but not exclusively, because it was by far the cheaper option. Even if you cite Ashley's hands off approach to running the club we could just put Llambias into the position of decision maker instead of Ashley and get the same conclusion.

 

We therefore now have conflicting interests. Keegan's method of building a team, and Wise's methods. Under the agreement in place...Keegan having final say, there shouldn't have been this big a problem, but clearly there was. Keegan on the face of it seems to be the injured party here. He claims that transfers were done without his say so and he resigned because of it. I can't see any reason he'd say that unless that was the case, and I certainly can't see any real evidence to contradict what Keegan says. And given that I'm convinced that the original agreement was that Keegan had final say...and that he clearly wasn't being given that toward the end of the transfer window, then there's little option other than to conclude that Ashley was in the wrong. He made an agreement with Keegan and then altered that agreement when Keegan's ideas of taking the team forward didn't coincide with what he finally decided to do, based on advice from others.

 

I'm not saying that Keegan's Ideas on taking the team forward were the best, or that Ashley is out to screw us. I don't even think that Wise is doing anything other than what he thinks is the best way forward, but I do think that this whole situation has to land at Ashleys door as the blame taker. I simply can't see any other simple and logical explanation without going off on more exotic and tangential speculations.

[Guest fraser]

 

Wise is in charge of Jimenez, Vetere, and the coaches, and reports directly to Llambias, it's quite clear:

 

http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1227633,00.html

 

He is clearly the one in ultimate charge of deciding who we sign and who we sell. If he chose to sign a player the manager specifically said he didn't want, which is Keegan's claim, then he is the person most responsible on the club's side for the consequences.

 

In such case I have no doubt whatsoever such a dispute would have been referred immediately to Llambias.

 

It's all speculation, but very good points are being made by the likes of KaKa, Edd, mrmojo et al - and not being adequately refuted. mrmojorisin75 suggests:

 

exactly edd - it all either points to something that wasn't cynical by the club but merely a breakdown over time between the parties involved

 

OR

 

keegan, as you say, was unhappy and had no say the whole time yet lied to the thousands of fans buying season tickets and let them pay 3 years in advance only to up ship and run at the last minute when it was all too late

 

if you believe he was lied to from day one then he's equally culpable in this respect, no?

 

So can Keegan's supporters please come up with something other than "It's all speculative bollocks" or "It's all Wise's fault"? UV asks

 

Yet you think Keegan signed up to be Jimenez' lacky? You think he signed up knowing the hierarchy would be Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan

 

I'd hardly call the authorisation of spending millions of pounds on players micro-managing btw.

 

Well, yes and no.

 

He said (with some cheekiness I'm sure) "I didn't have a brochure this time. It came like a whirlwind it is like one of those Lastminute.com holidays! There was no brochure I just came." Secondly, Wise had yet to be appointed, though one must assume negotiations with Wise had already commenced. So no, Keegan was not explicitly told that the hierarchy was Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan.

 

However, if you think Ashley and Mort hired Keegan without telling him about the imminent appointment of an executive director (football), that Ashley and Mort duped Keegan into believing he would be an old-school manager with sweeping powers while secretly planning to go in exactly the opposite direction, well... I'll take Kaka's logic over yours thanks.

 

 

raconteur, very few people want to hear this, instead they prefer the following word associations:

 

cockney, lies, wise, southerner, season tickets, 3 years, fabrication, conspiracy

 

KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism

 

i'm still astounded that after years of shepherd leasing warehouses to the club, ridiculing the supporters publicly, taking massive dividends despite deteriorating results on the pitch (etc...) was affored so much time and never once was there a talk of a boycott of club products, marches, none of this s***...before anyone starts about balancing the books i'll point you to bobby robsons first 2 seasons for a parrallel on spend and manager...also to the sacking of bobby as well really

 

is anyone gonna look me in the internet eye and tell me this doesn't just boil down to a nice bit of dirty regionalism against a southern owner and nasty dennis?

 

anyone?  really?

 

 

 

Well said.

 

Hopefully they take Keegan to court so the truth can come out and get the £2 million he owes the club in the process.

 

anyone wanting them to proceed with that legal action does not have the best interests of the club at heart. it'll just cause a shitload of bother for no good reason. even if they get their £2m, total phyrric victory beyond belief.

 

If the figure is accurate (has the club released it?) the £2m is a fraction of what it'd cost to brief the barristers, and that's with no guarantee of winning. If this goes to law I'll be amazed.

[Baggio]

 

Wise is in charge of Jimenez, Vetere, and the coaches, and reports directly to Llambias, it's quite clear:

 

http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1227633,00.html

 

He is clearly the one in ultimate charge of deciding who we sign and who we sell. If he chose to sign a player the manager specifically said he didn't want, which is Keegan's claim, then he is the person most responsible on the club's side for the consequences.

 

In such case I have no doubt whatsoever such a dispute would have been referred immediately to Llambias.

 

It's all speculation, but very good points are being made by the likes of KaKa, Edd, mrmojo et al - and not being adequately refuted. mrmojorisin75 suggests:

 

exactly edd - it all either points to something that wasn't cynical by the club but merely a breakdown over time between the parties involved

 

OR

 

keegan, as you say, was unhappy and had no say the whole time yet lied to the thousands of fans buying season tickets and let them pay 3 years in advance only to up ship and run at the last minute when it was all too late

 

if you believe he was lied to from day one then he's equally culpable in this respect, no?

 

So can Keegan's supporters please come up with something other than "It's all speculative bollocks" or "It's all Wise's fault"? UV asks

 

Yet you think Keegan signed up to be Jimenez' lacky? You think he signed up knowing the hierarchy would be Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan

 

I'd hardly call the authorisation of spending millions of pounds on players micro-managing btw.

 

Well, yes and no.

 

He said (with some cheekiness I'm sure) "I didn't have a brochure this time. It came like a whirlwind — it is like one of those Lastminute.com holidays! There was no brochure — I just came." Secondly, Wise had yet to be appointed, though one must assume negotiations with Wise had already commenced. So no, Keegan was not explicitly told that the hierarchy was Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan.

 

However, if you think Ashley and Mort hired Keegan without telling him about the imminent appointment of an executive director (football), that Ashley and Mort duped Keegan into believing he would be an old-school manager with sweeping powers while secretly planning to go in exactly the opposite direction, well... I'll take Kaka's logic over yours thanks.

 

 

raconteur, very few people want to hear this, instead they prefer the following word associations:

 

cockney, lies, wise, southerner, season tickets, 3 years, fabrication, conspiracy

 

KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism

 

i'm still astounded that after years of shepherd leasing warehouses to the club, ridiculing the supporters publicly, taking massive dividends despite deteriorating results on the pitch (etc...) was affored so much time and never once was there a talk of a boycott of club products, marches, none of this shit...before anyone starts about balancing the books i'll point you to bobby robsons first 2 seasons for a parrallel on spend and manager...also to the sacking of bobby as well really

 

is anyone gonna look me in the internet eye and tell me this doesn't just boil down to a nice bit of dirty regionalism against a southern owner and nasty dennis?

 

anyone?  really?

 

 

 

Well said.

 

Hopefully they take Keegan to court so the truth can come out and get the £2 million he owes the club in the process.

 

anyone wanting them to proceed with that legal action does not have the best interests of the club at heart. it'll just cause a shitload of bother for no good reason. even if they get their £2m, total phyrric victory beyond belief.

 

I have the best interests of the club at heart and it's why I want the record set straight, if Keegan wins in court then I'll happily back down and admit the club were in the wrong but if they win then I hope people drop the emotional shite and admit Keegan is in the wrong.

[johnnypd]

 

Wise is in charge of Jimenez, Vetere, and the coaches, and reports directly to Llambias, it's quite clear:

 

http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1227633,00.html

 

He is clearly the one in ultimate charge of deciding who we sign and who we sell. If he chose to sign a player the manager specifically said he didn't want, which is Keegan's claim, then he is the person most responsible on the club's side for the consequences.

 

In such case I have no doubt whatsoever such a dispute would have been referred immediately to Llambias.

 

It's all speculation, but very good points are being made by the likes of KaKa, Edd, mrmojo et al - and not being adequately refuted. mrmojorisin75 suggests:

 

exactly edd - it all either points to something that wasn't cynical by the club but merely a breakdown over time between the parties involved

 

OR

 

keegan, as you say, was unhappy and had no say the whole time yet lied to the thousands of fans buying season tickets and let them pay 3 years in advance only to up ship and run at the last minute when it was all too late

 

if you believe he was lied to from day one then he's equally culpable in this respect, no?

 

So can Keegan's supporters please come up with something other than "It's all speculative bollocks" or "It's all Wise's fault"? UV asks

 

Yet you think Keegan signed up to be Jimenez' lacky? You think he signed up knowing the hierarchy would be Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan

 

I'd hardly call the authorisation of spending millions of pounds on players micro-managing btw.

 

Well, yes and no.

 

He said (with some cheekiness I'm sure) "I didn't have a brochure this time. It came like a whirlwind it is like one of those Lastminute.com holidays! There was no brochure I just came." Secondly, Wise had yet to be appointed, though one must assume negotiations with Wise had already commenced. So no, Keegan was not explicitly told that the hierarchy was Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan.

 

However, if you think Ashley and Mort hired Keegan without telling him about the imminent appointment of an executive director (football), that Ashley and Mort duped Keegan into believing he would be an old-school manager with sweeping powers while secretly planning to go in exactly the opposite direction, well... I'll take Kaka's logic over yours thanks.

 

 

raconteur, very few people want to hear this, instead they prefer the following word associations:

 

cockney, lies, wise, southerner, season tickets, 3 years, fabrication, conspiracy

 

KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism

 

i'm still astounded that after years of shepherd leasing warehouses to the club, ridiculing the supporters publicly, taking massive dividends despite deteriorating results on the pitch (etc...) was affored so much time and never once was there a talk of a boycott of club products, marches, none of this s***...before anyone starts about balancing the books i'll point you to bobby robsons first 2 seasons for a parrallel on spend and manager...also to the sacking of bobby as well really

 

is anyone gonna look me in the internet eye and tell me this doesn't just boil down to a nice bit of dirty regionalism against a southern owner and nasty dennis?

 

anyone?  really?

 

 

 

Well said.

 

Hopefully they take Keegan to court so the truth can come out and get the £2 million he owes the club in the process.

 

anyone wanting them to proceed with that legal action does not have the best interests of the club at heart. it'll just cause a shitload of bother for no good reason. even if they get their £2m, total phyrric victory beyond belief.

 

If the figure is accurate (has the club released it?) the £2m is a fraction of what it'd cost to brief the barristers, and that's with no guarantee of winning. If this goes to law I'll be amazed.

 

got leaked, allegedly by a board member or someone close to the board, basically as a threat, so it remains to be seen if they follow up on it. obviously one would hope not.

[johnnypd]

 

Wise is in charge of Jimenez, Vetere, and the coaches, and reports directly to Llambias, it's quite clear:

 

http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1227633,00.html

 

He is clearly the one in ultimate charge of deciding who we sign and who we sell. If he chose to sign a player the manager specifically said he didn't want, which is Keegan's claim, then he is the person most responsible on the club's side for the consequences.

 

In such case I have no doubt whatsoever such a dispute would have been referred immediately to Llambias.

 

It's all speculation, but very good points are being made by the likes of KaKa, Edd, mrmojo et al - and not being adequately refuted. mrmojorisin75 suggests:

 

exactly edd - it all either points to something that wasn't cynical by the club but merely a breakdown over time between the parties involved

 

OR

 

keegan, as you say, was unhappy and had no say the whole time yet lied to the thousands of fans buying season tickets and let them pay 3 years in advance only to up ship and run at the last minute when it was all too late

 

if you believe he was lied to from day one then he's equally culpable in this respect, no?

 

So can Keegan's supporters please come up with something other than "It's all speculative bollocks" or "It's all Wise's fault"? UV asks

 

Yet you think Keegan signed up to be Jimenez' lacky? You think he signed up knowing the hierarchy would be Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan

 

I'd hardly call the authorisation of spending millions of pounds on players micro-managing btw.

 

Well, yes and no.

 

He said (with some cheekiness I'm sure) "I didn't have a brochure this time. It came like a whirlwind — it is like one of those Lastminute.com holidays! There was no brochure — I just came." Secondly, Wise had yet to be appointed, though one must assume negotiations with Wise had already commenced. So no, Keegan was not explicitly told that the hierarchy was Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan.

 

However, if you think Ashley and Mort hired Keegan without telling him about the imminent appointment of an executive director (football), that Ashley and Mort duped Keegan into believing he would be an old-school manager with sweeping powers while secretly planning to go in exactly the opposite direction, well... I'll take Kaka's logic over yours thanks.

 

 

raconteur, very few people want to hear this, instead they prefer the following word associations:

 

cockney, lies, wise, southerner, season tickets, 3 years, fabrication, conspiracy

 

KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism

 

i'm still astounded that after years of shepherd leasing warehouses to the club, ridiculing the supporters publicly, taking massive dividends despite deteriorating results on the pitch (etc...) was affored so much time and never once was there a talk of a boycott of club products, marches, none of this shit...before anyone starts about balancing the books i'll point you to bobby robsons first 2 seasons for a parrallel on spend and manager...also to the sacking of bobby as well really

 

is anyone gonna look me in the internet eye and tell me this doesn't just boil down to a nice bit of dirty regionalism against a southern owner and nasty dennis?

 

anyone?  really?

 

 

 

Well said.

 

Hopefully they take Keegan to court so the truth can come out and get the £2 million he owes the club in the process.

 

anyone wanting them to proceed with that legal action does not have the best interests of the club at heart. it'll just cause a shitload of bother for no good reason. even if they get their £2m, total phyrric victory beyond belief.

 

I have the best interests of the club at heart and it's why I want the record set straight, if Keegan wins in court then I'll happily back down and admit the club were in the wrong but if they win then I hope people drop the emotional shite and admit Keegan is in the wrong.

 

naive or daft (one of them) to think going to court is in the best interests of the club or the fans. even with they win - which wouldnt prove that much anyway, nor would losing, as it deals with legal technicalities which are only of interest to scrounging lawyers - how do you think it would make 90% of fans feel that the club, rich and owned by a billionaire, is stripping one of the greatest men in the club's history for £2m, for no other reason than they can. if they do that they just want to 'win' a legal argument rather than do what is in our best interests. they dont need the money, keegan probably does.

 

do you think it was in the best interests of the club and fans to release that silly statement of theirs, too?

[Baggio]

 

Wise is in charge of Jimenez, Vetere, and the coaches, and reports directly to Llambias, it's quite clear:

 

http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1227633,00.html

 

He is clearly the one in ultimate charge of deciding who we sign and who we sell. If he chose to sign a player the manager specifically said he didn't want, which is Keegan's claim, then he is the person most responsible on the club's side for the consequences.

 

In such case I have no doubt whatsoever such a dispute would have been referred immediately to Llambias.

 

It's all speculation, but very good points are being made by the likes of KaKa, Edd, mrmojo et al - and not being adequately refuted. mrmojorisin75 suggests:

 

exactly edd - it all either points to something that wasn't cynical by the club but merely a breakdown over time between the parties involved

 

OR

 

keegan, as you say, was unhappy and had no say the whole time yet lied to the thousands of fans buying season tickets and let them pay 3 years in advance only to up ship and run at the last minute when it was all too late

 

if you believe he was lied to from day one then he's equally culpable in this respect, no?

 

So can Keegan's supporters please come up with something other than "It's all speculative bollocks" or "It's all Wise's fault"? UV asks

 

Yet you think Keegan signed up to be Jimenez' lacky? You think he signed up knowing the hierarchy would be Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan

 

I'd hardly call the authorisation of spending millions of pounds on players micro-managing btw.

 

Well, yes and no.

 

He said (with some cheekiness I'm sure) "I didn't have a brochure this time. It came like a whirlwind — it is like one of those Lastminute.com holidays! There was no brochure — I just came." Secondly, Wise had yet to be appointed, though one must assume negotiations with Wise had already commenced. So no, Keegan was not explicitly told that the hierarchy was Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan.

 

However, if you think Ashley and Mort hired Keegan without telling him about the imminent appointment of an executive director (football), that Ashley and Mort duped Keegan into believing he would be an old-school manager with sweeping powers while secretly planning to go in exactly the opposite direction, well... I'll take Kaka's logic over yours thanks.

 

 

raconteur, very few people want to hear this, instead they prefer the following word associations:

 

cockney, lies, wise, southerner, season tickets, 3 years, fabrication, conspiracy

 

KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism

 

i'm still astounded that after years of shepherd leasing warehouses to the club, ridiculing the supporters publicly, taking massive dividends despite deteriorating results on the pitch (etc...) was affored so much time and never once was there a talk of a boycott of club products, marches, none of this shit...before anyone starts about balancing the books i'll point you to bobby robsons first 2 seasons for a parrallel on spend and manager...also to the sacking of bobby as well really

 

is anyone gonna look me in the internet eye and tell me this doesn't just boil down to a nice bit of dirty regionalism against a southern owner and nasty dennis?

 

anyone?  really?

 

 

 

Well said.

 

Hopefully they take Keegan to court so the truth can come out and get the £2 million he owes the club in the process.

 

anyone wanting them to proceed with that legal action does not have the best interests of the club at heart. it'll just cause a shitload of bother for no good reason. even if they get their £2m, total phyrric victory beyond belief.

 

I have the best interests of the club at heart and it's why I want the record set straight, if Keegan wins in court then I'll happily back down and admit the club were in the wrong but if they win then I hope people drop the emotional shite and admit Keegan is in the wrong.

 

naive or daft (one of them) to think going to court is in the best interests of the club or the fans. even with they win - which wouldnt prove that much anyway, nor would losing, as it deals with legal technicalities which are only of interest to scrounging lawyers - how do you think it would make 90% of fans feel that the club, rich and owned by a billionaire, is stripping one of the greatest men in the club's history for £2m, for no other reason than they can. if they do that they just want to 'win' a legal argument rather than do what is in our best interests. they dont need the money, keegan probably does.

 

do you think it was in the best interests of the club and fans to release that silly statement of theirs, too?

 

No I don't, I think the statement was dropping down to his level exchanging insults, with the quick response from the LMA they were expecting it.

 

The truth coming out is worth more to Ashley than £2 million, how many people do you think will stop this boycott of club products if the truth comes out that they're not to blame? I'd say quite a few.

[TRon]

 

Wise is in charge of Jimenez, Vetere, and the coaches, and reports directly to Llambias, it's quite clear:

 

http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1227633,00.html

 

He is clearly the one in ultimate charge of deciding who we sign and who we sell. If he chose to sign a player the manager specifically said he didn't want, which is Keegan's claim, then he is the person most responsible on the club's side for the consequences.

 

In such case I have no doubt whatsoever such a dispute would have been referred immediately to Llambias.

 

It's all speculation, but very good points are being made by the likes of KaKa, Edd, mrmojo et al - and not being adequately refuted. mrmojorisin75 suggests:

 

exactly edd - it all either points to something that wasn't cynical by the club but merely a breakdown over time between the parties involved

 

OR

 

keegan, as you say, was unhappy and had no say the whole time yet lied to the thousands of fans buying season tickets and let them pay 3 years in advance only to up ship and run at the last minute when it was all too late

 

if you believe he was lied to from day one then he's equally culpable in this respect, no?

 

So can Keegan's supporters please come up with something other than "It's all speculative bollocks" or "It's all Wise's fault"? UV asks

 

Yet you think Keegan signed up to be Jimenez' lacky? You think he signed up knowing the hierarchy would be Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan

 

I'd hardly call the authorisation of spending millions of pounds on players micro-managing btw.

 

Well, yes and no.

 

He said (with some cheekiness I'm sure) "I didn't have a brochure this time. It came like a whirlwind — it is like one of those Lastminute.com holidays! There was no brochure — I just came." Secondly, Wise had yet to be appointed, though one must assume negotiations with Wise had already commenced. So no, Keegan was not explicitly told that the hierarchy was Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan.

 

However, if you think Ashley and Mort hired Keegan without telling him about the imminent appointment of an executive director (football), that Ashley and Mort duped Keegan into believing he would be an old-school manager with sweeping powers while secretly planning to go in exactly the opposite direction, well... I'll take Kaka's logic over yours thanks.

 

 

raconteur, very few people want to hear this, instead they prefer the following word associations:

 

cockney, lies, wise, southerner, season tickets, 3 years, fabrication, conspiracy

 

KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism

 

i'm still astounded that after years of shepherd leasing warehouses to the club, ridiculing the supporters publicly, taking massive dividends despite deteriorating results on the pitch (etc...) was affored so much time and never once was there a talk of a boycott of club products, marches, none of this shit...before anyone starts about balancing the books i'll point you to bobby robsons first 2 seasons for a parrallel on spend and manager...also to the sacking of bobby as well really

 

is anyone gonna look me in the internet eye and tell me this doesn't just boil down to a nice bit of dirty regionalism against a southern owner and nasty dennis?

 

anyone?  really?

 

 

 

Well said.

 

Hopefully they take Keegan to court so the truth can come out and get the £2 million he owes the club in the process.

 

anyone wanting them to proceed with that legal action does not have the best interests of the club at heart. it'll just cause a shitload of bother for no good reason. even if they get their £2m, total phyrric victory beyond belief.

 

I have the best interests of the club at heart and it's why I want the record set straight, if Keegan wins in court then I'll happily back down and admit the club were in the wrong but if they win then I hope people drop the emotional shite and admit Keegan is in the wrong.

 

naive or daft (one of them) to think going to court is in the best interests of the club or the fans. even with they win - which wouldnt prove that much anyway, nor would losing, as it deals with legal technicalities which are only of interest to scrounging lawyers - how do you think it would make 90% of fans feel that the club, rich and owned by a billionaire, is stripping one of the greatest men in the club's history for £2m, for no other reason than they can. if they do that they just want to 'win' a legal argument rather than do what is in our best interests. they dont need the money, keegan probably does.

 

do you think it was in the best interests of the club and fans to release that silly statement of theirs, too?

 

if he needs the money that much, he wouldn't have walked out of a job.

[johnnypd]

 

Wise is in charge of Jimenez, Vetere, and the coaches, and reports directly to Llambias, it's quite clear:

 

http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1227633,00.html

 

He is clearly the one in ultimate charge of deciding who we sign and who we sell. If he chose to sign a player the manager specifically said he didn't want, which is Keegan's claim, then he is the person most responsible on the club's side for the consequences.

 

In such case I have no doubt whatsoever such a dispute would have been referred immediately to Llambias.

 

It's all speculation, but very good points are being made by the likes of KaKa, Edd, mrmojo et al - and not being adequately refuted. mrmojorisin75 suggests:

 

exactly edd - it all either points to something that wasn't cynical by the club but merely a breakdown over time between the parties involved

 

OR

 

keegan, as you say, was unhappy and had no say the whole time yet lied to the thousands of fans buying season tickets and let them pay 3 years in advance only to up ship and run at the last minute when it was all too late

 

if you believe he was lied to from day one then he's equally culpable in this respect, no?

 

So can Keegan's supporters please come up with something other than "It's all speculative bollocks" or "It's all Wise's fault"? UV asks

 

Yet you think Keegan signed up to be Jimenez' lacky? You think he signed up knowing the hierarchy would be Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan

 

I'd hardly call the authorisation of spending millions of pounds on players micro-managing btw.

 

Well, yes and no.

 

He said (with some cheekiness I'm sure) "I didn't have a brochure this time. It came like a whirlwind — it is like one of those Lastminute.com holidays! There was no brochure — I just came." Secondly, Wise had yet to be appointed, though one must assume negotiations with Wise had already commenced. So no, Keegan was not explicitly told that the hierarchy was Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan.

 

However, if you think Ashley and Mort hired Keegan without telling him about the imminent appointment of an executive director (football), that Ashley and Mort duped Keegan into believing he would be an old-school manager with sweeping powers while secretly planning to go in exactly the opposite direction, well... I'll take Kaka's logic over yours thanks.

 

 

raconteur, very few people want to hear this, instead they prefer the following word associations:

 

cockney, lies, wise, southerner, season tickets, 3 years, fabrication, conspiracy

 

KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism

 

i'm still astounded that after years of shepherd leasing warehouses to the club, ridiculing the supporters publicly, taking massive dividends despite deteriorating results on the pitch (etc...) was affored so much time and never once was there a talk of a boycott of club products, marches, none of this shit...before anyone starts about balancing the books i'll point you to bobby robsons first 2 seasons for a parrallel on spend and manager...also to the sacking of bobby as well really

 

is anyone gonna look me in the internet eye and tell me this doesn't just boil down to a nice bit of dirty regionalism against a southern owner and nasty dennis?

 

anyone?  really?

 

 

 

Well said.

 

Hopefully they take Keegan to court so the truth can come out and get the £2 million he owes the club in the process.

 

anyone wanting them to proceed with that legal action does not have the best interests of the club at heart. it'll just cause a shitload of bother for no good reason. even if they get their £2m, total phyrric victory beyond belief.

 

I have the best interests of the club at heart and it's why I want the record set straight, if Keegan wins in court then I'll happily back down and admit the club were in the wrong but if they win then I hope people drop the emotional shite and admit Keegan is in the wrong.

 

naive or daft (one of them) to think going to court is in the best interests of the club or the fans. even with they win - which wouldnt prove that much anyway, nor would losing, as it deals with legal technicalities which are only of interest to scrounging lawyers - how do you think it would make 90% of fans feel that the club, rich and owned by a billionaire, is stripping one of the greatest men in the club's history for £2m, for no other reason than they can. if they do that they just want to 'win' a legal argument rather than do what is in our best interests. they dont need the money, keegan probably does.

 

do you think it was in the best interests of the club and fans to release that silly statement of theirs, too?

 

No I don't, I think the statement was dropping down to his level exchanging insults, with the quick response from the LMA they were expecting it.

 

The truth coming out is worth more to Ashley than £2 million, how many people do you think will stop this boycott of club products if the truth comes out that they're not to blame? I'd say quite a few.

 

i don't agree that emnity will cease. people have their minds made up and will still view ashley with suspicion. in fact i imagine would get a whole lot worse if it went to court as it would stir up old arguments 6 months down the line just as people were moving on, and people would view it as a disgraceful act to try and break someone they consider to be a great man even though nufc don't need the money.

 

personally i don't think it will get that far as though i'm skeptical of ashley's motives i don't think he is stupid enough to do that.

[Guest fraser]

 

Wise is in charge of Jimenez, Vetere, and the coaches, and reports directly to Llambias, it's quite clear:

 

http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1227633,00.html

 

He is clearly the one in ultimate charge of deciding who we sign and who we sell. If he chose to sign a player the manager specifically said he didn't want, which is Keegan's claim, then he is the person most responsible on the club's side for the consequences.

 

In such case I have no doubt whatsoever such a dispute would have been referred immediately to Llambias.

 

It's all speculation, but very good points are being made by the likes of KaKa, Edd, mrmojo et al - and not being adequately refuted. mrmojorisin75 suggests:

 

exactly edd - it all either points to something that wasn't cynical by the club but merely a breakdown over time between the parties involved

 

OR

 

keegan, as you say, was unhappy and had no say the whole time yet lied to the thousands of fans buying season tickets and let them pay 3 years in advance only to up ship and run at the last minute when it was all too late

 

if you believe he was lied to from day one then he's equally culpable in this respect, no?

 

So can Keegan's supporters please come up with something other than "It's all speculative bollocks" or "It's all Wise's fault"? UV asks

 

Yet you think Keegan signed up to be Jimenez' lacky? You think he signed up knowing the hierarchy would be Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan

 

I'd hardly call the authorisation of spending millions of pounds on players micro-managing btw.

 

Well, yes and no.

 

He said (with some cheekiness I'm sure) "I didn't have a brochure this time. It came like a whirlwind it is like one of those Lastminute.com holidays! There was no brochure I just came." Secondly, Wise had yet to be appointed, though one must assume negotiations with Wise had already commenced. So no, Keegan was not explicitly told that the hierarchy was Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan.

 

However, if you think Ashley and Mort hired Keegan without telling him about the imminent appointment of an executive director (football), that Ashley and Mort duped Keegan into believing he would be an old-school manager with sweeping powers while secretly planning to go in exactly the opposite direction, well... I'll take Kaka's logic over yours thanks.

 

 

raconteur, very few people want to hear this, instead they prefer the following word associations:

 

cockney, lies, wise, southerner, season tickets, 3 years, fabrication, conspiracy

 

KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism

 

i'm still astounded that after years of shepherd leasing warehouses to the club, ridiculing the supporters publicly, taking massive dividends despite deteriorating results on the pitch (etc...) was affored so much time and never once was there a talk of a boycott of club products, marches, none of this s***...before anyone starts about balancing the books i'll point you to bobby robsons first 2 seasons for a parrallel on spend and manager...also to the sacking of bobby as well really

 

is anyone gonna look me in the internet eye and tell me this doesn't just boil down to a nice bit of dirty regionalism against a southern owner and nasty dennis?

 

anyone?  really?

 

 

 

Well said.

 

Hopefully they take Keegan to court so the truth can come out and get the £2 million he owes the club in the process.

 

anyone wanting them to proceed with that legal action does not have the best interests of the club at heart. it'll just cause a shitload of bother for no good reason. even if they get their £2m, total phyrric victory beyond belief.

 

I have the best interests of the club at heart and it's why I want the record set straight, if Keegan wins in court then I'll happily back down and admit the club were in the wrong but if they win then I hope people drop the emotional s**** and admit Keegan is in the wrong.

 

naive or daft (one of them) to think going to court is in the best interests of the club or the fans. even with they win - which wouldnt prove that much anyway, nor would losing, as it deals with legal technicalities which are only of interest to scrounging lawyers - how do you think it would make 90% of fans feel that the club, rich and owned by a billionaire, is stripping one of the greatest men in the club's history for £2m, for no other reason than they can. if they do that they just want to 'win' a legal argument rather than do what is in our best interests. they dont need the money, keegan probably does.

 

do you think it was in the best interests of the club and fans to release that silly statement of theirs, too?

 

No I don't, I think the statement was dropping down to his level exchanging insults, with the quick response from the LMA they were expecting it.

 

The truth coming out is worth more to Ashley than £2 million, how many people do you think will stop this boycott of club products if the truth comes out that they're not to blame? I'd say quite a few.

 

The costs will be immense; Keegan will no doubt have sought advice before resigning and will have acted upon it. This means that an employment lawyer somewhere thinks he has a case whether it's breach of contract or constructive dismissal. The £2m could be dwarved by costs and the outcome uncertain.

[TRon]

 

Wise is in charge of Jimenez, Vetere, and the coaches, and reports directly to Llambias, it's quite clear:

 

http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1227633,00.html

 

He is clearly the one in ultimate charge of deciding who we sign and who we sell. If he chose to sign a player the manager specifically said he didn't want, which is Keegan's claim, then he is the person most responsible on the club's side for the consequences.

 

In such case I have no doubt whatsoever such a dispute would have been referred immediately to Llambias.

 

It's all speculation, but very good points are being made by the likes of KaKa, Edd, mrmojo et al - and not being adequately refuted. mrmojorisin75 suggests:

 

exactly edd - it all either points to something that wasn't cynical by the club but merely a breakdown over time between the parties involved

 

OR

 

keegan, as you say, was unhappy and had no say the whole time yet lied to the thousands of fans buying season tickets and let them pay 3 years in advance only to up ship and run at the last minute when it was all too late

 

if you believe he was lied to from day one then he's equally culpable in this respect, no?

 

So can Keegan's supporters please come up with something other than "It's all speculative bollocks" or "It's all Wise's fault"? UV asks

 

Yet you think Keegan signed up to be Jimenez' lacky? You think he signed up knowing the hierarchy would be Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan

 

I'd hardly call the authorisation of spending millions of pounds on players micro-managing btw.

 

Well, yes and no.

 

He said (with some cheekiness I'm sure) "I didn't have a brochure this time. It came like a whirlwind it is like one of those Lastminute.com holidays! There was no brochure I just came." Secondly, Wise had yet to be appointed, though one must assume negotiations with Wise had already commenced. So no, Keegan was not explicitly told that the hierarchy was Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan.

 

However, if you think Ashley and Mort hired Keegan without telling him about the imminent appointment of an executive director (football), that Ashley and Mort duped Keegan into believing he would be an old-school manager with sweeping powers while secretly planning to go in exactly the opposite direction, well... I'll take Kaka's logic over yours thanks.

 

 

raconteur, very few people want to hear this, instead they prefer the following word associations:

 

cockney, lies, wise, southerner, season tickets, 3 years, fabrication, conspiracy

 

KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism

 

i'm still astounded that after years of shepherd leasing warehouses to the club, ridiculing the supporters publicly, taking massive dividends despite deteriorating results on the pitch (etc...) was affored so much time and never once was there a talk of a boycott of club products, marches, none of this s***...before anyone starts about balancing the books i'll point you to bobby robsons first 2 seasons for a parrallel on spend and manager...also to the sacking of bobby as well really

 

is anyone gonna look me in the internet eye and tell me this doesn't just boil down to a nice bit of dirty regionalism against a southern owner and nasty dennis?

 

anyone?  really?

 

 

 

Well said.

 

Hopefully they take Keegan to court so the truth can come out and get the £2 million he owes the club in the process.

 

anyone wanting them to proceed with that legal action does not have the best interests of the club at heart. it'll just cause a shitload of bother for no good reason. even if they get their £2m, total phyrric victory beyond belief.

 

I have the best interests of the club at heart and it's why I want the record set straight, if Keegan wins in court then I'll happily back down and admit the club were in the wrong but if they win then I hope people drop the emotional s**** and admit Keegan is in the wrong.

 

naive or daft (one of them) to think going to court is in the best interests of the club or the fans. even with they win - which wouldnt prove that much anyway, nor would losing, as it deals with legal technicalities which are only of interest to scrounging lawyers - how do you think it would make 90% of fans feel that the club, rich and owned by a billionaire, is stripping one of the greatest men in the club's history for £2m, for no other reason than they can. if they do that they just want to 'win' a legal argument rather than do what is in our best interests. they dont need the money, keegan probably does.

 

do you think it was in the best interests of the club and fans to release that silly statement of theirs, too?

 

No I don't, I think the statement was dropping down to his level exchanging insults, with the quick response from the LMA they were expecting it.

 

The truth coming out is worth more to Ashley than £2 million, how many people do you think will stop this boycott of club products if the truth comes out that they're not to blame? I'd say quite a few.

 

The costs will be immense; Keegan will no doubt have sought advice before resigning and will have acted upon it. This means that an employment lawyer somewhere thinks he has a case whether it's breach of contract or constructive dismissal. The £2m could be dwarved by costs and the outcome uncertain.

 

Who is going to pay these massive costs to Keegan? Will they come out of Ashley's private bank account or will NUFC be footing the bill?

[Mick]

He was doing the job he was hired to do wasn't he? That just didn't include signing players, and he thought it should.

 

Whether or not he knew that from the start is the only real question.

 

I would say that any doubt about that was dispelled by everything which came out of the club until less than a week ago.  Now when this kicked off they've decided to change what they've said for the last 7 1/2 months.  The club have either lied for 7 1/2 months or they've lied for less than a week, either way they have no credibility.

[Guest fraser]

 

Wise is in charge of Jimenez, Vetere, and the coaches, and reports directly to Llambias, it's quite clear:

 

http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1227633,00.html

 

He is clearly the one in ultimate charge of deciding who we sign and who we sell. If he chose to sign a player the manager specifically said he didn't want, which is Keegan's claim, then he is the person most responsible on the club's side for the consequences.

 

In such case I have no doubt whatsoever such a dispute would have been referred immediately to Llambias.

 

It's all speculation, but very good points are being made by the likes of KaKa, Edd, mrmojo et al - and not being adequately refuted. mrmojorisin75 suggests:

 

exactly edd - it all either points to something that wasn't cynical by the club but merely a breakdown over time between the parties involved

 

OR

 

keegan, as you say, was unhappy and had no say the whole time yet lied to the thousands of fans buying season tickets and let them pay 3 years in advance only to up ship and run at the last minute when it was all too late

 

if you believe he was lied to from day one then he's equally culpable in this respect, no?

 

So can Keegan's supporters please come up with something other than "It's all speculative bollocks" or "It's all Wise's fault"? UV asks

 

Yet you think Keegan signed up to be Jimenez' lacky? You think he signed up knowing the hierarchy would be Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan

 

I'd hardly call the authorisation of spending millions of pounds on players micro-managing btw.

 

Well, yes and no.

 

He said (with some cheekiness I'm sure) "I didn't have a brochure this time. It came like a whirlwind it is like one of those Lastminute.com holidays! There was no brochure I just came." Secondly, Wise had yet to be appointed, though one must assume negotiations with Wise had already commenced. So no, Keegan was not explicitly told that the hierarchy was Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan.

 

However, if you think Ashley and Mort hired Keegan without telling him about the imminent appointment of an executive director (football), that Ashley and Mort duped Keegan into believing he would be an old-school manager with sweeping powers while secretly planning to go in exactly the opposite direction, well... I'll take Kaka's logic over yours thanks.

 

 

raconteur, very few people want to hear this, instead they prefer the following word associations:

 

cockney, lies, wise, southerner, season tickets, 3 years, fabrication, conspiracy

 

KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism

 

i'm still astounded that after years of shepherd leasing warehouses to the club, ridiculing the supporters publicly, taking massive dividends despite deteriorating results on the pitch (etc...) was affored so much time and never once was there a talk of a boycott of club products, marches, none of this s***...before anyone starts about balancing the books i'll point you to bobby robsons first 2 seasons for a parrallel on spend and manager...also to the sacking of bobby as well really

 

is anyone gonna look me in the internet eye and tell me this doesn't just boil down to a nice bit of dirty regionalism against a southern owner and nasty dennis?

 

anyone?  really?

 

 

 

Well said.

 

Hopefully they take Keegan to court so the truth can come out and get the £2 million he owes the club in the process.

 

anyone wanting them to proceed with that legal action does not have the best interests of the club at heart. it'll just cause a shitload of bother for no good reason. even if they get their £2m, total phyrric victory beyond belief.

 

I have the best interests of the club at heart and it's why I want the record set straight, if Keegan wins in court then I'll happily back down and admit the club were in the wrong but if they win then I hope people drop the emotional s**** and admit Keegan is in the wrong.

 

naive or daft (one of them) to think going to court is in the best interests of the club or the fans. even with they win - which wouldnt prove that much anyway, nor would losing, as it deals with legal technicalities which are only of interest to scrounging lawyers - how do you think it would make 90% of fans feel that the club, rich and owned by a billionaire, is stripping one of the greatest men in the club's history for £2m, for no other reason than they can. if they do that they just want to 'win' a legal argument rather than do what is in our best interests. they dont need the money, keegan probably does.

 

do you think it was in the best interests of the club and fans to release that silly statement of theirs, too?

 

No I don't, I think the statement was dropping down to his level exchanging insults, with the quick response from the LMA they were expecting it.

 

The truth coming out is worth more to Ashley than £2 million, how many people do you think will stop this boycott of club products if the truth comes out that they're not to blame? I'd say quite a few.

 

The costs will be immense; Keegan will no doubt have sought advice before resigning and will have acted upon it. This means that an employment lawyer somewhere thinks he has a case whether it's breach of contract or constructive dismissal. The £2m could be dwarved by costs and the outcome uncertain.

 

Who is going to pay these massive costs to Keegan? Will they come out of Ashley's private bank account or will NUFC be footing the bill?

 

The LMA will fund Keegan in all likelihood, like most professional associations would if it were assessed there is a reasonable chance of winning the case; he's probably already had this advice and this would account for his resignation. The most likely outcome is a settlement and a non-disclosure agreement. The truth for either side is unlikely to come out.

[Thomson Mouse]

 

Wise is in charge of Jimenez, Vetere, and the coaches, and reports directly to Llambias, it's quite clear:

 

http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1227633,00.html

 

He is clearly the one in ultimate charge of deciding who we sign and who we sell. If he chose to sign a player the manager specifically said he didn't want, which is Keegan's claim, then he is the person most responsible on the club's side for the consequences.

 

In such case I have no doubt whatsoever such a dispute would have been referred immediately to Llambias.

 

It's all speculation, but very good points are being made by the likes of KaKa, Edd, mrmojo et al - and not being adequately refuted. mrmojorisin75 suggests:

 

exactly edd - it all either points to something that wasn't cynical by the club but merely a breakdown over time between the parties involved

 

OR

 

keegan, as you say, was unhappy and had no say the whole time yet lied to the thousands of fans buying season tickets and let them pay 3 years in advance only to up ship and run at the last minute when it was all too late

 

if you believe he was lied to from day one then he's equally culpable in this respect, no?

 

So can Keegan's supporters please come up with something other than "It's all speculative bollocks" or "It's all Wise's fault"? UV asks

 

Yet you think Keegan signed up to be Jimenez' lacky? You think he signed up knowing the hierarchy would be Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan

 

I'd hardly call the authorisation of spending millions of pounds on players micro-managing btw.

 

Well, yes and no.

 

He said (with some cheekiness I'm sure) "I didn't have a brochure this time. It came like a whirlwind — it is like one of those Lastminute.com holidays! There was no brochure — I just came." Secondly, Wise had yet to be appointed, though one must assume negotiations with Wise had already commenced. So no, Keegan was not explicitly told that the hierarchy was Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan.

 

However, if you think Ashley and Mort hired Keegan without telling him about the imminent appointment of an executive director (football), that Ashley and Mort duped Keegan into believing he would be an old-school manager with sweeping powers while secretly planning to go in exactly the opposite direction, well... I'll take Kaka's logic over yours thanks.

 

 

raconteur, very few people want to hear this, instead they prefer the following word associations:

 

cockney, lies, wise, southerner, season tickets, 3 years, fabrication, conspiracy

 

KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism

 

i'm still astounded that after years of shepherd leasing warehouses to the club, ridiculing the supporters publicly, taking massive dividends despite deteriorating results on the pitch (etc...) was affored so much time and never once was there a talk of a boycott of club products, marches, none of this s***...before anyone starts about balancing the books i'll point you to bobby robsons first 2 seasons for a parrallel on spend and manager...also to the sacking of bobby as well really

 

is anyone gonna look me in the internet eye and tell me this doesn't just boil down to a nice bit of dirty regionalism against a southern owner and nasty dennis?

 

anyone?  really?

 

 

 

Well said.

 

Hopefully they take Keegan to court so the truth can come out and get the £2 million he owes the club in the process.

 

anyone wanting them to proceed with that legal action does not have the best interests of the club at heart. it'll just cause a shitload of bother for no good reason. even if they get their £2m, total phyrric victory beyond belief.

 

I have the best interests of the club at heart and it's why I want the record set straight, if Keegan wins in court then I'll happily back down and admit the club were in the wrong but if they win then I hope people drop the emotional s**** and admit Keegan is in the wrong.

 

naive or daft (one of them) to think going to court is in the best interests of the club or the fans. even with they win - which wouldnt prove that much anyway, nor would losing, as it deals with legal technicalities which are only of interest to scrounging lawyers - how do you think it would make 90% of fans feel that the club, rich and owned by a billionaire, is stripping one of the greatest men in the club's history for £2m, for no other reason than they can. if they do that they just want to 'win' a legal argument rather than do what is in our best interests. they dont need the money, keegan probably does.

 

do you think it was in the best interests of the club and fans to release that silly statement of theirs, too?

 

No I don't, I think the statement was dropping down to his level exchanging insults, with the quick response from the LMA they were expecting it.

 

The truth coming out is worth more to Ashley than £2 million, how many people do you think will stop this boycott of club products if the truth comes out that they're not to blame? I'd say quite a few.

 

 

So does the mean if Ashley doesn't take him to court, there is no truth to come out - things are as Keegan has said?

[TRon]

 

Wise is in charge of Jimenez, Vetere, and the coaches, and reports directly to Llambias, it's quite clear:

 

http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1227633,00.html

 

He is clearly the one in ultimate charge of deciding who we sign and who we sell. If he chose to sign a player the manager specifically said he didn't want, which is Keegan's claim, then he is the person most responsible on the club's side for the consequences.

 

In such case I have no doubt whatsoever such a dispute would have been referred immediately to Llambias.

 

It's all speculation, but very good points are being made by the likes of KaKa, Edd, mrmojo et al - and not being adequately refuted. mrmojorisin75 suggests:

 

exactly edd - it all either points to something that wasn't cynical by the club but merely a breakdown over time between the parties involved

 

OR

 

keegan, as you say, was unhappy and had no say the whole time yet lied to the thousands of fans buying season tickets and let them pay 3 years in advance only to up ship and run at the last minute when it was all too late

 

if you believe he was lied to from day one then he's equally culpable in this respect, no?

 

So can Keegan's supporters please come up with something other than "It's all speculative bollocks" or "It's all Wise's fault"? UV asks

 

Yet you think Keegan signed up to be Jimenez' lacky? You think he signed up knowing the hierarchy would be Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan

 

I'd hardly call the authorisation of spending millions of pounds on players micro-managing btw.

 

Well, yes and no.

 

He said (with some cheekiness I'm sure) "I didn't have a brochure this time. It came like a whirlwind it is like one of those Lastminute.com holidays! There was no brochure I just came." Secondly, Wise had yet to be appointed, though one must assume negotiations with Wise had already commenced. So no, Keegan was not explicitly told that the hierarchy was Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan.

 

However, if you think Ashley and Mort hired Keegan without telling him about the imminent appointment of an executive director (football), that Ashley and Mort duped Keegan into believing he would be an old-school manager with sweeping powers while secretly planning to go in exactly the opposite direction, well... I'll take Kaka's logic over yours thanks.

 

 

raconteur, very few people want to hear this, instead they prefer the following word associations:

 

cockney, lies, wise, southerner, season tickets, 3 years, fabrication, conspiracy

 

KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism

 

i'm still astounded that after years of shepherd leasing warehouses to the club, ridiculing the supporters publicly, taking massive dividends despite deteriorating results on the pitch (etc...) was affored so much time and never once was there a talk of a boycott of club products, marches, none of this s***...before anyone starts about balancing the books i'll point you to bobby robsons first 2 seasons for a parrallel on spend and manager...also to the sacking of bobby as well really

 

is anyone gonna look me in the internet eye and tell me this doesn't just boil down to a nice bit of dirty regionalism against a southern owner and nasty dennis?

 

anyone?  really?

 

 

 

Well said.

 

Hopefully they take Keegan to court so the truth can come out and get the £2 million he owes the club in the process.

 

anyone wanting them to proceed with that legal action does not have the best interests of the club at heart. it'll just cause a shitload of bother for no good reason. even if they get their £2m, total phyrric victory beyond belief.

 

I have the best interests of the club at heart and it's why I want the record set straight, if Keegan wins in court then I'll happily back down and admit the club were in the wrong but if they win then I hope people drop the emotional s**** and admit Keegan is in the wrong.

 

naive or daft (one of them) to think going to court is in the best interests of the club or the fans. even with they win - which wouldnt prove that much anyway, nor would losing, as it deals with legal technicalities which are only of interest to scrounging lawyers - how do you think it would make 90% of fans feel that the club, rich and owned by a billionaire, is stripping one of the greatest men in the club's history for £2m, for no other reason than they can. if they do that they just want to 'win' a legal argument rather than do what is in our best interests. they dont need the money, keegan probably does.

 

do you think it was in the best interests of the club and fans to release that silly statement of theirs, too?

 

No I don't, I think the statement was dropping down to his level exchanging insults, with the quick response from the LMA they were expecting it.

 

The truth coming out is worth more to Ashley than £2 million, how many people do you think will stop this boycott of club products if the truth comes out that they're not to blame? I'd say quite a few.

 

The costs will be immense; Keegan will no doubt have sought advice before resigning and will have acted upon it. This means that an employment lawyer somewhere thinks he has a case whether it's breach of contract or constructive dismissal. The £2m could be dwarved by costs and the outcome uncertain.

 

Who is going to pay these massive costs to Keegan? Will they come out of Ashley's private bank account or will NUFC be footing the bill?

 

The LMA will fund Keegan in all likelihood, like most professional associations would if it were assessed there is a reasonable chance of winning the case; he's probably already had this advice and this would account for his resignation. The most likely outcome is a settlement and a non-disclosure agreement. The truth for either side is unlikely to come out.

 

That's not really answering the question which was asked.