MON the saviour

[James]

Invicta, when's the Special Bus coming to pick you up?

[brummie]

Fair enough, I agree with the mid-table thing. Maybe perhaps a bit better, pushing for 6-7 every season and becoming UEFA regulars, but they're going to need a whole lot more than what is a modest transfer budget to break into the so-called 'elite'.

 

What is the modest transfer budget?

 

Well, it's only paper talk, I suppose, but I've seen things like £20m mentioned at various points since he took over. Either way, what I'm trying to get at is, if you're a team like Villa, looking to break into the top tier you're going to need to spend a lot of money. I rate O'Neill's skills to get the best out of everyone highly, but I don't think he can acheive that.

 

Fair enough, but surely if Lerner is prepared to fund MON to the tune of, say, 100m (figure plucked from the air), he's hardly going to shout about it, is he? We're already getting (over the top) "new Chelsea" comments, we're going to get fleeced every time we go for a player.

 

FWIW, I think this season will be about consolidation, I don't think he'll spend a lot in January, not because the cash isnt there, but because it is much harder to get players in Jan than it is in August.

 

Going back to the original thrust of the thread though, only a blind man could deny that what he has done thus far has been nothing short of phenomenal, and if we are going to have a crack at breaking into the "elite", then him as manager and Lerner as chairman is pretty much the ideal combination to have.

[BlufPurdi]

Fair enough, I agree with the mid-table thing. Maybe perhaps a bit better, pushing for 6-7 every season and becoming UEFA regulars, but they're going to need a whole lot more than what is a modest transfer budget to break into the so-called 'elite'.

 

What is the modest transfer budget?

 

Well, it's only paper talk, I suppose, but I've seen things like £20m mentioned at various points since he took over. Either way, what I'm trying to get at is, if you're a team like Villa, looking to break into the top tier you're going to need to spend a lot of money. I rate O'Neill's skills to get the best out of everyone highly, but I don't think he can acheive that.

 

Fair enough, but surely if Lerner is prepared to fund MON to the tune of, say, 100m (figure plucked from the air), he's hardly going to shout about it, is he? We're already getting (over the top) "new Chelsea" comments, we're going to get fleeced every time we go for a player.

 

FWIW, I think this season will be about consolidation, I don't think he'll spend a lot in January, not because the cash isnt there, but because it is much harder to get players in Jan than it is in August.

 

Going back to the original thrust of the thread though, only a blind man could deny that what he has done thus far has been nothing short of phenomenal, and if we are going to have a crack at breaking into the "elite", then him as manager and Lerner as chairman is pretty much the ideal combination to have.

 

Agreed, on all points.

[Guest The Fox]

I dont call remaining unbeaten until the end of Oct doing nothing at all and not having had any time in the transfer market. Just to remind you that Roeder had the whole summer and he's the one doing F*** all.

What I do call doing nothing at all is posting ridiculous topics like this.

[johnnypd]

record so far:

 

wins against:

 

Reading (home)

Newcastle (home)

Scunthorpe (away)

Charlton (home)

Leicester (away in extra time)

 

 

I reckon Roeder could have achieved that

 

 

 

didn't beat charlton at home so i wouldn't count on it.

[merlin]

 

You are really setting yourself up here, Invicta - if you think Roeder would have achieved the unbeaten run with Villa that MON has, esp after very little transfer activity and just arriving at the club a few weeks prior to the season, you've got to be dreaming.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, but I am willing to bet that you will have to eat your words within 2 years....

 

O'Neill - gained relative success with ALL his clubs ; Roeder - relegated most of his..

 

It a No-brainer.

 

[Cronky]

If MON does achieve at the Villa, stand by for that to be dismissed on the grounds that it was all down Lerner's money. Just like any dummy can win the League Cup and win trophies with Celtic.

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

 

You are really setting yourself up here, Invicta - if you think Roeder would have achieved the unbeaten run with Villa that MON has, esp after very little transfer activity and just arriving at the club a few weeks prior to the season, you've got to be dreaming.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, but I am willing to bet that you will have to eat your words within 2 years....

 

O'Neill - gained relative success with ALL his clubs ; Roeder - relegated most of his..

 

It a No-brainer.

 

 

 

just have a look at the results and tell me if that is an 'amazing unbeaten run', or a few wins against shite teams and a bunch of draws.

 

first test and he failed. Woefully.

 

And I say again, at the start of the season, none of you would have said Roeder wasn't capable of the same kind of run.

[GM]

And I say again, at the start of the season, none of you would have said Roeder wasn't capable of the same kind of run...

 

...of disastrous and woeful performances?

...of appallingly bad losses to lesser teams?

...of not being able to score?

 

 

[Guest Phil K]

Er...how far above Newcastle are Villa, by the way ?

9 places isn't it ?

Villa fans worried about relegation are they, LIKE US ?

Villa were crap last season and were genuinly worried about the drop this season.

O'Neil hasn't spent as much as Roeder, yet he has them playing to the best of their not-too-great abilities.

Time is showing O'Neill is a decent manager.

Time is showing Roeder is anything BUT.

 

'he's doing **** all' is a statement of fact on the here and now. Nothing to do with his past (achievements?)

 

Statement of crap, alright. He's making progress with Villa, which is hardly '*** all'.

This is Invicta talking remember - shite a speciality.

Who did O'Neill manage in the prem ?

Leicester.

Hardly Man U, right ?

Did he win anything ?

Yes, a League Cup - which even that we'd be pleased with.

He did well at Celtic, and so did Souness at Rangers.

Souness was dreadful with big clubs down here, O'Neill did a good job with poor resources.

It'll take more than a season to make something out of Villa, and he'll make a good job.

Damn sight better than the mess Roeder is making here for instance.

 

[Cajun]

 

You are really setting yourself up here, Invicta - if you think Roeder would have achieved the unbeaten run with Villa that MON has, esp after very little transfer activity and just arriving at the club a few weeks prior to the season, you've got to be dreaming.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, but I am willing to bet that you will have to eat your words within 2 years....

 

O'Neill - gained relative success with ALL his clubs ; Roeder - relegated most of his..

 

It a No-brainer.

 

 

 

just have a look at the results and tell me if that is an 'amazing unbeaten run', or a few wins against shite teams and a bunch of draws.

 

first test and he failed. Woefully.

 

And I say again, at the start of the season, none of you would have said Roeder wasn't capable of the same kind of run.

 

Wasn't Arsenal a test then?

 

From most sources Liverpool played the best football they have in a long while!

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

 

You are really setting yourself up here, Invicta - if you think Roeder would have achieved the unbeaten run with Villa that MON has, esp after very little transfer activity and just arriving at the club a few weeks prior to the season, you've got to be dreaming.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, but I am willing to bet that you will have to eat your words within 2 years....

 

O'Neill - gained relative success with ALL his clubs ; Roeder - relegated most of his..

 

It a No-brainer.

 

 

 

just have a look at the results and tell me if that is an 'amazing unbeaten run', or a few wins against shite teams and a bunch of draws.

 

first test and he failed. Woefully.

 

And I say again, at the start of the season, none of you would have said Roeder wasn't capable of the same kind of run.

 

Wasn't Arsenal a test then?

 

From most sources Liverpool played the best football they have in a long while!

 

 

The Arse have dropped points at home against Everton, Boro as well as Villa already this season, so that suggests no tbh.

 

As for Liverpool - is that OK then?, as long as the opposition play you off the park it's OK to lose a match? That's no potential 'world class manager' for me tbh

[Mick]

record so far:

 

wins against:

 

Reading (home)

Newcastle (home)

Scunthorpe (away)

Charlton (home)

Leicester (away in extra time)

 

 

I reckon Roeder could have achieved that

 

 

 

Roeder couldn't get the win against Charlton so I reckon he couldn't.

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

record so far:

 

wins against:

 

Reading (home)

Newcastle (home)

Scunthorpe (away)

Charlton (home)

Leicester (away in extra time)

 

 

I reckon Roeder could have achieved that

 

 

 

Roeder couldn't get the win against Charlton so I reckon he couldn't.

 

the key word being 'could' not would

 

 

An interesting question though - would a Roeder managed Villa have beaten Newcastle at Villa Park?

[Cajun]

 

You are really setting yourself up here, Invicta - if you think Roeder would have achieved the unbeaten run with Villa that MON has, esp after very little transfer activity and just arriving at the club a few weeks prior to the season, you've got to be dreaming.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, but I am willing to bet that you will have to eat your words within 2 years....

 

O'Neill - gained relative success with ALL his clubs ; Roeder - relegated most of his..

 

It a No-brainer.

 

 

 

just have a look at the results and tell me if that is an 'amazing unbeaten run', or a few wins against shite teams and a bunch of draws.

 

first test and he failed. Woefully.

 

And I say again, at the start of the season, none of you would have said Roeder wasn't capable of the same kind of run.

 

Wasn't Arsenal a test then?

 

From most sources Liverpool played the best football they have in a long while!

 

 

The Arse have dropped points at home against Everton, Boro as well as Villa already this season, so that suggests no tbh.

 

As for Liverpool - is that OK then?, as long as the opposition play you off the park it's OK to lose a match? That's no potential 'world class manager' for me tbh

 

As said before look where they are and where we are, then look at our squads. O'Neill is doing a very good job and because they faced Liverpool in probably their best form of the season and losts all of a sudden WE can laugh at Villa?

 

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

 

You are really setting yourself up here, Invicta - if you think Roeder would have achieved the unbeaten run with Villa that MON has, esp after very little transfer activity and just arriving at the club a few weeks prior to the season, you've got to be dreaming.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, but I am willing to bet that you will have to eat your words within 2 years....

 

O'Neill - gained relative success with ALL his clubs ; Roeder - relegated most of his..

 

It a No-brainer.

 

 

 

just have a look at the results and tell me if that is an 'amazing unbeaten run', or a few wins against shite teams and a bunch of draws.

 

first test and he failed. Woefully.

 

And I say again, at the start of the season, none of you would have said Roeder wasn't capable of the same kind of run.

 

Wasn't Arsenal a test then?

 

From most sources Liverpool played the best football they have in a long while!

 

 

The Arse have dropped points at home against Everton, Boro as well as Villa already this season, so that suggests no tbh.

 

As for Liverpool - is that OK then?, as long as the opposition play you off the park it's OK to lose a match? That's no potential 'world class manager' for me tbh

 

As said before look where they are and where we are, then look at our squads. O'Neill is doing a very good job and because they faced Liverpool in probably their best form of the season and losts all of a sudden WE can laugh at Villa?

 

 

don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting Roeder here, I'm just pointing out what MON is all about, to the people who would hold him up as the saviour

[garth]

record so far:

 

wins against:

 

Reading (home)

Newcastle (home)

Scunthorpe (away)

Charlton (home)

Leicester (away in extra time)

 

 

I reckon Roeder could have achieved that

 

 

 

Roeder couldn't get the win against Charlton so I reckon he couldn't.

 

the key word being 'could' not would

 

 

An interesting question though - would a Roeder managed Villa have beaten Newcastle at Villa Park?

 

Your still not getting it then Victor! bluebiggrin.gif bluebiggrin.gif

[Cajun]

 

You are really setting yourself up here, Invicta - if you think Roeder would have achieved the unbeaten run with Villa that MON has, esp after very little transfer activity and just arriving at the club a few weeks prior to the season, you've got to be dreaming.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, but I am willing to bet that you will have to eat your words within 2 years....

 

O'Neill - gained relative success with ALL his clubs ; Roeder - relegated most of his..

 

It a No-brainer.

 

 

 

just have a look at the results and tell me if that is an 'amazing unbeaten run', or a few wins against shite teams and a bunch of draws.

 

first test and he failed. Woefully.

 

And I say again, at the start of the season, none of you would have said Roeder wasn't capable of the same kind of run.

 

Wasn't Arsenal a test then?

 

From most sources Liverpool played the best football they have in a long while!

 

 

The Arse have dropped points at home against Everton, Boro as well as Villa already this season, so that suggests no tbh.

 

As for Liverpool - is that OK then?, as long as the opposition play you off the park it's OK to lose a match? That's no potential 'world class manager' for me tbh

 

As said before look where they are and where we are, then look at our squads. O'Neill is doing a very good job and because they faced Liverpool in probably their best form of the season and losts all of a sudden WE can laugh at Villa?

 

 

don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting Roeder here, I'm just pointing out what MON is all about, to the people who would hold him up as the saviour

 

Peronally I have thought he is a very good manager who knows how to build a team, has a very good coaching team behind him and knows something about tactics.

 

So far nothing has changed that opinion, yes they lost to Liverpool but that was down to Liverpool playing amazing football more than Villa playing shite! That happens in football and when a club like Liverpool click then its no shame to lose!

[BlufPurdi]

People, well Vic, are forgetting Liverpool are a superb team on their day, yesterday was their day.  But even still Villa kept battling and pulled one back, however futile it was, it's a mark of the determination O'Neill installs in his teams.  I'd love to see a quarter of that in our team, by our moronic manager.  Roeder "could" have acheived those results you suggested?  Could he fuck, he's already proven so.  And to answer the question, a Roeder managed Villa could not have beaten us at Villa Park, in my opinion.

 

And failed first test?  OK, I'll give you Arsenal drop points, but what about Chelsea?  Oh, I suppose they're shit too, and always drop points. :roll:

 

O'Neill has got what it takes to be a excellent manager.  The only reason he's not seen as a great so far, is cause he's consistantly knocked back big teams like Man U and Liverpool (whether they were ACTUALLY after him remains a mystery, but he was certainly hounded by the media, and he then totally ruled out a move) and opted for a bigger challenge in Celtic and Villa. 

 

You've turned this into an almost O'Neill V Roeder thread.  Which is quite ridiculous, as anyone with EYES can tell you who is the better manager, you don't even need a brain to acheive this.

[Howaythelads]

 

You are really setting yourself up here, Invicta - if you think Roeder would have achieved the unbeaten run with Villa that MON has, esp after very little transfer activity and just arriving at the club a few weeks prior to the season, you've got to be dreaming.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, but I am willing to bet that you will have to eat your words within 2 years....

 

O'Neill - gained relative success with ALL his clubs ; Roeder - relegated most of his..

 

It a No-brainer.

 

 

 

just have a look at the results and tell me if that is an 'amazing unbeaten run', or a few wins against shite teams and a bunch of draws.

 

first test and he failed. Woefully.

 

And I say again, at the start of the season, none of you would have said Roeder wasn't capable of the same kind of run.

 

Wasn't Arsenal a test then?

 

From most sources Liverpool played the best football they have in a long while!

 

 

The Arse have dropped points at home against Everton, Boro as well as Villa already this season, so that suggests no tbh.

 

As for Liverpool - is that OK then?, as long as the opposition play you off the park it's OK to lose a match? That's no potential 'world class manager' for me tbh

 

As said before look where they are and where we are, then look at our squads. O'Neill is doing a very good job and because they faced Liverpool in probably their best form of the season and losts all of a sudden WE can laugh at Villa?

 

 

don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting Roeder here, I'm just pointing out what MON is all about, to the people who would hold him up as the saviour

 

Hate to agree with Victor, but O'Neill is over-rated, not useless like some try to portray as my point of view.

 

Anyway gejon, what's all this about comparing the squads, the obvious inference here being that you think ours is good. It's not good, it's shite in fact. If was good why is everyone slating the fullbacks, slating the centre backs, complaining about the midfield apart from the hero Parker, and the forwards.  Wot forwards?

 

If you think our squad is good and that Roeder isn't getting enough from it then fine, we'll never agree because I think Roeder was left a load of shite by Souness.

[brummie]

don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting Roeder here, I'm just pointing out what MON is all about, to the people who would hold him up as the saviour

 

There's no point explaining this to you, BlufPurdi made all the points very clearly in the post above, but I wonder how much of your slightly odd view of MON is actually down to the fact MON is Villa's saviour and not Newcastle's?

[Cajun]

 

You are really setting yourself up here, Invicta - if you think Roeder would have achieved the unbeaten run with Villa that MON has, esp after very little transfer activity and just arriving at the club a few weeks prior to the season, you've got to be dreaming.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, but I am willing to bet that you will have to eat your words within 2 years....

 

O'Neill - gained relative success with ALL his clubs ; Roeder - relegated most of his..

 

It a No-brainer.

 

 

 

just have a look at the results and tell me if that is an 'amazing unbeaten run', or a few wins against shite teams and a bunch of draws.

 

first test and he failed. Woefully.

 

And I say again, at the start of the season, none of you would have said Roeder wasn't capable of the same kind of run.

 

Wasn't Arsenal a test then?

 

From most sources Liverpool played the best football they have in a long while!

 

 

The Arse have dropped points at home against Everton, Boro as well as Villa already this season, so that suggests no tbh.

 

As for Liverpool - is that OK then?, as long as the opposition play you off the park it's OK to lose a match? That's no potential 'world class manager' for me tbh

 

As said before look where they are and where we are, then look at our squads. O'Neill is doing a very good job and because they faced Liverpool in probably their best form of the season and losts all of a sudden WE can laugh at Villa?

 

 

don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting Roeder here, I'm just pointing out what MON is all about, to the people who would hold him up as the saviour

 

Hate to agree with Victor, but O'Neill is over-rated, not useless like some try to portray as my point of view.

 

Anyway gejon, what's all this about comparing the squads, the obvious inference here being that you think ours is good. It's not good, it's shite in fact. If was good why is everyone slating the fullbacks, slating the centre backs, complaining about the midfield apart from the hero Parker, and the forwards.  Wot forwards?

 

If you think our squad is good and that Roeder isn't getting enough from it then fine, we'll never agree because I think Roeder was left a load of shite by Souness.

 

I do think we have a better squad, im not one that has slated out Midfield, infact i probably stick up for them more than most. Our attackers arent that bad but we could do with a natural finisher but then so could Villa. They probably have 2 defenders I would like but other than that I would prefer ours.

[brummie]

I do think we have a better squad, im not one that has slated out Midfield, infact i probably stick up for them more than most. Our attackers arent that bad but we could do with a natural finisher but then so could Villa. They probably have 2 defenders I would like but other than that I would prefer ours.

 

I think that's debatable. O'Dreary made a half decent squad look rubbish last year. The only Newcastle players I'd consider putting into the Villa side would be N'Zogbia, Parker (maybe), Given and Milner. And obv a fit Owen, but such a thing doesn't exist. I certainly wouldn't take any of your defenders. The last time we did that, it was Hughes, and you're more than welcome to have him back.

 

You're right about strikers, though. Neither team seems to possess someone capable of hitting a barn door at the moment.

 

Overall, I'd say the Newcastle and Villa squads are both average to decent, but really nothing to write home about. The difference is, Roeder doesn't seem to have the first idea how to get the best out of them.

 

Watching him motionless on the touchline yesterday was spookily reminiscent of watching O'Leary last year, with the exception that O'Leary's expression was usually one of utter indifference, whereas Roeder comes across as being transfixed by fear.

 

[Cajun]

I do think we have a better squad, im not one that has slated out Midfield, infact i probably stick up for them more than most. Our attackers arent that bad but we could do with a natural finisher but then so could Villa. They probably have 2 defenders I would like but other than that I would prefer ours.

 

I think that's debatable. O'Dreary made a half decent squad look rubbish last year. The only Newcastle players I'd put into the Villa side would be N'Zogbia, Parker, Given and Milner. And obv a fit Owen, but such a thing doesn't exist. I certainly wouldn't take any of your defenders. The last time we did that, it was Hughes, and you're more than welcome to have him back.

 

Overall, I'd say the Newcastle and Villa squads are both average to decent, but really nothing to write home about. The difference is, Roeder doesn't seem to have the first idea how to get the best out of them.

 

Watching him motionless on the touchline yesterday was spookily reminiscent of watching O'Leary last year.

 

 

Each to their own, I reckon I would probably take Mellberg, Bouma (possibly), Laursen (if he stayed fit, doubt it) and that young striker of yours. As you have pointed out Hughes isnt much very good, would take Taylor over Ridgewell.

 

You wouldnt take Duff, Martins and Emre?

[brummie]

I do think we have a better squad, im not one that has slated out Midfield, infact i probably stick up for them more than most. Our attackers arent that bad but we could do with a natural finisher but then so could Villa. They probably have 2 defenders I would like but other than that I would prefer ours.

 

I think that's debatable. O'Dreary made a half decent squad look rubbish last year. The only Newcastle players I'd put into the Villa side would be N'Zogbia, Parker, Given and Milner. And obv a fit Owen, but such a thing doesn't exist. I certainly wouldn't take any of your defenders. The last time we did that, it was Hughes, and you're more than welcome to have him back.

 

Overall, I'd say the Newcastle and Villa squads are both average to decent, but really nothing to write home about. The difference is, Roeder doesn't seem to have the first idea how to get the best out of them.

 

Watching him motionless on the touchline yesterday was spookily reminiscent of watching O'Leary last year.

 

 

Each to their own, I reckon I would probably take Mellberg, Bouma (possibly), Laursen (if he stayed fit, doubt it) and that young striker of yours. As you have pointed out Hughes isnt much very good, would take Taylor over Ridgewell.

 

You wouldnt take Duff, Martins and Emre?

 

Wouldnt take Ridgewell? He's been the best of the defenders so far this season  by far, and was top defender in the country in those Actim stat things, at least until this week. Bouma has hardly played. And what about Gareth Barry?

 

Where does Taylor play? If it is at right back, I'd take him to replace Hughes, who is utterly dire.

 

I wouldn't take Emre, no. Certainly not if the choice were between him an Petrov. Assuming there is some cost element involved, I would certainly not take Martins - 10m for a bit of promise? Duff I would have taken prior to this season. Believe it or not, probably our best player this season has been McCann, who has been absolutely awesome (his injury has coincided with our loss of form).

 

But obv, he's a former mackem so I wouldn't expect you to take him ;-)