Guest Howaythetoon Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 We didn't play long ball stuff when we had Carroll and now we have a much better side. The idea that buying Carroll automatically equals long ball or direct football is excruciatingly lazy. The main reason for our long ball stuff for a portion of last season was due to our inability to play it out of defence. That was due to the limitation of Simpson and Willamson (mainly) rather than because of any strikers we did or didn't have. Bullshit, it was down to Pardew's tactics and lack of trust in his players as to why we played it long. We played some lovely stuff towards the end of the season with those two you mention at the back for example. Pardew changed the shape and system of the side to suit our players and gave them more freedom hence our better football and better results even. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decky Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 My main worry is that if we pay this kind of money for him then he'll almost become the first name on the team sheet. Realistically we won't be paying £15m plus for a third choice striker. So who do we drop? Cisse or Ba? I'd rather we stayed clear now and invested that money in other areas of the pitch and got a 3rd choice forward for possibly around half of that fee. How good was Ben Arfa, Cisse and Ba up front together last season? If we get Carroll that is gone and I don't think it should be. We should keep the formation that played so well for us last season and just improve on it in areas such as RB and CB, with some squad players as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 We didn't play long ball stuff when we had Carroll and now we have a much better side. The idea that buying Carroll automatically equals long ball or direct football is excruciatingly lazy. The main reason for our long ball stuff for a portion of last season was due to our inability to play it out of defence. That was due to the limitation of Simpson and Willamson (mainly) rather than because of any strikers we did or didn't have. Bullshit, it was down to Pardew's tactics and lack of trust in his players as to why we played it long. We played some lovely stuff towards the end of the season with those two you mention at the back for example. Pardew changed the shape and system of the side to suit our players and gave them more freedom hence our better football and better results even. This long ball stuff is grossly overplayed if you ask me. It's not as if we only hoofed it long in the 442 formation, then didn't ever punt it long as soon as we turned to 433. Tim Krul has kicked it long all season for example, as have some defenders (Simpson, Williamson being the main culprits), which suggests it's also a tactical preference from Pardew. Maybe he just likes to mix it up? One thing is for sure though: a long ball to Carroll with Cisse and/or Ba feeding off the knockdowns looks a lot more effective on paper than punting it long to Cisse as we have also done aplenty in this supposed carpet football period. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toondave Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Widely reported that we received the full £35million in one fat chunk. The report is hogwash. It was widely reported that we received £30m, with an extra £5m to follow I believe. “But the £35m they wanted to pay over four years. It was rubbish. Mike (Ashley) said — and he is a brave boy Mike I promise you — get all the £35m up front. We got it all up front and then they never paid us on time and we charged them 12 grand f****** interest.” Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxfree Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 http://twitpic.com/a8eznp "Liverpool will not sell Carroll for less than £20m[...]" See you some other window then. Because you will, eventually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 As if Liverpool have any Chance for getting over £15m for him, Rodgers has seen to that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crumpy Gunt Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I'm amazed anyone wouldn't think Carroll wouldn't fit into our style of play. Pardew is absolutely no stranger to humping it long. In fact it used to piss me off big style watching big passes come staright back at us because Ba and Cisse just aren't equipped to hold off lumbering centre halfs who simply over run them. Also, as I mentioned earlier in the thread we're looking at upwards of 55 games this season... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I'm amazed anyone wouldn't think Carroll wouldn't fit into our style of play. Pardew is absolutely no stranger to humping it long. In fact it used to p*ss me off big style watching big passes come staright back at us because Ba and Cisse just aren't equipped to hold off lumbering centre halfs who simply over run them. Also, as I mentioned earlier in the thread we're looking at upwards of 55 games this season... Again, Pardew never played long ball at Reading, Charlton or West Ham, they were fluid attacking sides. While agree I don't think we needed to be playing long ball football last season it certainly CLEARLY isn't his preference, its an alternative tactic that hopefully we won't see as much of next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagten Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I'm amazed anyone wouldn't think Carroll wouldn't fit into our style of play. Pardew is absolutely no stranger to humping it long. In fact it used to p*ss me off big style watching big passes come staright back at us because Ba and Cisse just aren't equipped to hold off lumbering centre halfs who simply over run them. Also, as I mentioned earlier in the thread we're looking at upwards of 55 games this season... Are we really? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 As if Liverpool have any Chance for getting over £15m for him, Rodgers has seen to that. its almost as if they don't know what they're doing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeloEmre Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I'm amazed anyone wouldn't think Carroll wouldn't fit into our style of play. Pardew is absolutely no stranger to humping it long. In fact it used to p*ss me off big style watching big passes come staright back at us because Ba and Cisse just aren't equipped to hold off lumbering centre halfs who simply over run them. Also, as I mentioned earlier in the thread we're looking at upwards of 55 games this season... Are we really? PL - 38 EL - 10 FA - 3 CC - 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagten Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I'm amazed anyone wouldn't think Carroll wouldn't fit into our style of play. Pardew is absolutely no stranger to humping it long. In fact it used to p*ss me off big style watching big passes come staright back at us because Ba and Cisse just aren't equipped to hold off lumbering centre halfs who simply over run them. Also, as I mentioned earlier in the thread we're looking at upwards of 55 games this season... Are we really? PL - 38 EL - 10 FA - 3 CC - 3 You have no way of knowing that, you're guessing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I've just remembered that goal against Liverpool. The beautiful 2nd one, passed through a Carroll-spearheaded Liverpool side as we enjoyed the lols. Now they're moving on, getting rid and bringing in flexible players while we move back in for Carroll... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 ...so upwards of 41 games then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxfree Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 George Caulkin @CaulkinTheTimes Spoken to #Nufc re Carroll: reluctant to move from season loan with option. They don't think #lfc will do business with them on those terms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I'm amazed anyone wouldn't think Carroll wouldn't fit into our style of play. Pardew is absolutely no stranger to humping it long. In fact it used to p*ss me off big style watching big passes come staright back at us because Ba and Cisse just aren't equipped to hold off lumbering centre halfs who simply over run them. Also, as I mentioned earlier in the thread we're looking at upwards of 55 games this season... Are we really? PL - 38 EL - 10 FA - 3 CC - 3 You have no way of knowing that, you're guessing. If we win our Europa League qualifier we're immediately looking at the group stages, so 10 is not unrealistic unless we drop at the first hurdle. Fuck knows how far we'll go in the domestic cups but add in the preseason matches and that figure is hardly unrealistic and could even be on the low side if we manage to go far in the CC or FA Cup for once. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Byker Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 George Caulkin @CaulkinTheTimes Spoken to #Nufc re Carroll: reluctant to move from season loan with option. They don't think #lfc will do business with them on those terms. Offer the Scousers that or nothing, and hope Andy kicks up a fuss. Not sure whether I'd have him back, really. His departure pretty much enabled the success we've been enjoying lately, and he did act like a tit last time at SJP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Think we'll sign him on loan right at the end of the window. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crumpy Gunt Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I'm amazed anyone wouldn't think Carroll wouldn't fit into our style of play. Pardew is absolutely no stranger to humping it long. In fact it used to p*ss me off big style watching big passes come staright back at us because Ba and Cisse just aren't equipped to hold off lumbering centre halfs who simply over run them. Also, as I mentioned earlier in the thread we're looking at upwards of 55 games this season... Are we really? If we do reasonably well in all competitions we will hit somwhere around that mark. I'm sure I read Fulham played what was in effect an extrahalf a season with added UEFA Cup/FA/League Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I've just remembered that goal against Liverpool. The beautiful 2nd one, passed through a Carroll-spearheaded Liverpool side as we enjoyed the lols. Now they're moving on, getting rid and bringing in flexible players while we move back in for Carroll... Are you working your way back in time? Keep at it, in a few hours you may remember when Carroll played for us and ripped defenses apart in the black and white. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagten Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I'm amazed anyone wouldn't think Carroll wouldn't fit into our style of play. Pardew is absolutely no stranger to humping it long. In fact it used to p*ss me off big style watching big passes come staright back at us because Ba and Cisse just aren't equipped to hold off lumbering centre halfs who simply over run them. Also, as I mentioned earlier in the thread we're looking at upwards of 55 games this season... Are we really? If we do reasonably well in all competitions we will hit somwhere around that mark. I'm sure I read Fulham played what was in effect an extrahalf a season with added UEFA Cup/FA/League They started in the very first qualifying round, I think. I just don't like presuming we will have loads of extra games when we might not. Perhaps I am just pessimistic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 George Caulkin @CaulkinTheTimes Spoken to #Nufc re Carroll: reluctant to move from season loan with option. They don't think #lfc will do business with them on those terms. they'll crack sooner or later, they've dug themselves into a massive hole Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I've just remembered that goal against Liverpool. The beautiful 2nd one, passed through a Carroll-spearheaded Liverpool side as we enjoyed the lols. Now they're moving on, getting rid and bringing in flexible players while we move back in for Carroll... Are you working your way back in time? Keep at it, in a few hours you may remember when Carroll played for us and ripped defenses apart in the black and white. Why dont we bring back Nolan and Barton while we're at it then. They made a good trio. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I'm amazed anyone wouldn't think Carroll wouldn't fit into our style of play. Pardew is absolutely no stranger to humping it long. In fact it used to p*ss me off big style watching big passes come staright back at us because Ba and Cisse just aren't equipped to hold off lumbering centre halfs who simply over run them. Also, as I mentioned earlier in the thread we're looking at upwards of 55 games this season... Are we really? If we do reasonably well in all competitions we will hit somwhere around that mark. I'm sure I read Fulham played what was in effect an extrahalf a season with added UEFA Cup/FA/League The started in the very first qualifying round, I think. I just don't like presuming we will have loads of extra games when we might not. Perhaps I am just pessimistic. Seeing as that argument is only really relevant when it comes to the number of strikers, not the actual players, are you happy to go into a full season with 4 competitions with 3 strikers only, one of which can't run for more than half an hour? If you are, you're not nearly as pessimistic as you think.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Worst case scenario: we lose Ba and play a game of brinkmanship with Liverpool until deadline day then end up empty handed or make a Sibierski/Kuqi style panic signing. This looks like it has the potential to drag on and while it does, we lose time to switch to other targets. Hopefully the club has set a deadline by which they move on, but Ashley has a history of brinkmanship negotiating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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