The Future of NUFC

[Guest Brazilianbob]

To a football fan success is a relative thing.

If, as Gareth Southgate predicts in the article above, the English game faces a "Serie A style collapse" would the true fans who attend the matches be that bothered about it. I don't think so. Most would rather be high up a decent league than at the bottom of the best league in the world.

The standard of player we watch in the English game nowadays is far higher than 10 years ago, which in turn was much higher than 10 years before that. Do we enjoy it more ? Probably not. We prefer to see winning football rather than world class football.

 

If the collapse did happen and the mercenaries flee our shores, those who will be most upset will be the Premier League themselves - who presently have the world's best football product, the club's owners - most of whom are Johnny come lately's - and maybe a few "fashion fans" who have latched on to the product as we signed up all the world's best players.

 

OK we may no longer get 3 English clubs in the Champion's League semis but would many real fans be that bothered ?

 

I simply cannot agree that standards of players are better now than ten or even twenty years ago, not even fitness wise, because players never seemed to get as many injuries in the past as seem to now.  As for skilful midfield players, and strikers, I can think of at half a dozen off the top of my head, who would walk into any current EPL side, including the top four.

[Guest SirLes]

Until Feb 1st I wont totally know but Its not looking great at the moment for the club...

 

Firstly I'm not a fan that wants 'trophy signings', all in all I've been happy with Colliccini, Bassong, Guthrie & Guiterez (spelling not my strong point)

Add to this I'd far rather see Xisco given a chance then Ameobi or Carroll, from what I have seen with my own eyes on numerous occasions, both are not good enough, one has outlived the potential he was tagged with and one is too engrossed in his own hype with very little talent to back it up.

 

From what I have read and understood, Xisco has great potential but seems to have been given very little chance by our 'strange set up' of a club... ala Luque, Jan Dahl T.

 

When clubs are talking about pushing on and growing we seem to be going backwards at an alarming pace, the club has the look of a Sunday league set up where anything goes, and millions seem to be lost on a seconds thought.

 

Talk of Barton Leaving for 2million and another estimated guess £2million in wages being spent on Shola over 3 years just shows this.

Id far rater loose Shola and keep our most talented midfielder, I can live with Barton & Guthrie, it showed early promise pre injury.

 

Butt for all his professionalism is finished, as is Geremi who in my opinion is still 10 times the footballer that Butt is.

Our Midfield has needed improving for over 4 years now if not more and how Butt can be the main heartbeat of our club I do not understand, Giggs is much the more mobile player who came through at the same time and the guy is talking of retirement at the end of the season, whereas we are talking about building our team round the likes of Butt and Shola for 09-10 season.

 

I'm not asking for miracles of tens of millions to be spent, just a little common sense and freshness in the club, why can we never buy players like Cahill, Lescott or Young? players with promise that want to play and develop? without spending millions in the process, then selilng them for peanuts when they do a Luque/Xisco.

 

Ashley needs to stop the talk and actually give the fans some substance, meet the fans or at least explain what he is doing to our club, its not a game that he seems to think it is, it means far more to most of us then he would ever know so I think for that sake alone, let alone the fact we spent hard earned money supporting them, he owes us all that much, the silence is not working at all.

 

I think the future is bleak unless the current cycle of non communication is broken.

 

 

[Guest sittingontheball]

Future looks grim to me. We'll avoid relegation but keep Kinnear and remain mediocre.

 

I don't subscribe to the "it'll take x seasons" to get back up there, because all but five or six teams in the Prem are meh.

We got seventh and into Europe the other year with Roeder pretty easily simply by going on a good run through some favourable fixtures at the end of the season. It could happen again. For a club of the Toon size and wage bill, it shouldn't be that difficult. However, with the present administration and squad or a weakened version of it as some players jump ship, I really cannot see it happening in the near future.

 

I hate business-speak, but they say if you fail to plan, you plan to fail. We clearly don't have a plan for achieving success on the field. Every decision is a reaction to circumstances.

[TRon]

I would say we are fast reaching a crossroads. These are tricky times for a lot of clubs and it's easy to overlook how many are in real trouble like West Ham. But Ashley has to invest some serious money in the squad to keep us a competitive force. There's been some decent work in the transfer market but we are obviously still weak in some areas and we can't keep blowing season after season due to not being able to cope with injuries.

[NE5]

During the Souness/Roeder era's, I honestly felt that "ah well, we've f***ed up but one solid season of rebuilding and we'll be in the top six."

 

Now? The best we can hope for in the short term right now is consolidating as lower-mid table club like Boro or Fulham. There is no light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Barring something truly extraordinary, like a billionaire takeover or somehow stumbling upon the next great up-and-coming manager, I simply don't see us breaking into the top half any time in the foreseeable future.

 

DISCLAIMER: No, I don't believe this has anything to do with change in ownership. Don't even try.

 

well, if you think that, what DO you think is the reason ?

 

Of course its because of the change of ownership.

 

Ambitions and standards have dropped. Nothing else could cause your change of attitude.

 

 

 

The fact that we've festered down here so long that we've used up any sort of good will we amassed during the Keegan and Robson eras. To incoming players, we're no longer a big club that's hit hard times, just another one of them s*** clubs.

 

The fact that the rest of the PL has improved so drastically in the past few years that it's no longer just a matter of throwing together any half-decent squad to become "the best of the rest." We now have to leapfrog the likes of Villa and Everton who have already entrenched themselves as near permanent fixtures in the top six, Man City, who have infinite money, and Tottenham, the greatest fucking club on Earth.

 

The whole Keegan shitfest. I suppose this wouldn't have happened if Ashley wasn't the owner, I'll give you that. Then again, if Shepherd was still hear we probably would've kept Big Sam until at least this season and God knows where we'd be by now. Let's not play the "what if" game.

 

how has it improved ?

 

It hasn't. Football is the same as it always was. All teams and clubs evolve, and the team of 1996 would still be in there chasing the title right to the end.

 

 

[oldtype]

During the Souness/Roeder era's, I honestly felt that "ah well, we've f***ed up but one solid season of rebuilding and we'll be in the top six."

 

Now? The best we can hope for in the short term right now is consolidating as lower-mid table club like Boro or Fulham. There is no light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Barring something truly extraordinary, like a billionaire takeover or somehow stumbling upon the next great up-and-coming manager, I simply don't see us breaking into the top half any time in the foreseeable future.

 

DISCLAIMER: No, I don't believe this has anything to do with change in ownership. Don't even try.

 

well, if you think that, what DO you think is the reason ?

 

Of course its because of the change of ownership.

 

Ambitions and standards have dropped. Nothing else could cause your change of attitude.

 

 

 

The fact that we've festered down here so long that we've used up any sort of good will we amassed during the Keegan and Robson eras. To incoming players, we're no longer a big club that's hit hard times, just another one of them s*** clubs.

 

The fact that the rest of the PL has improved so drastically in the past few years that it's no longer just a matter of throwing together any half-decent squad to become "the best of the rest." We now have to leapfrog the likes of Villa and Everton who have already entrenched themselves as near permanent fixtures in the top six, Man City, who have infinite money, and Tottenham, the greatest f***ing club on Earth.

 

The whole Keegan shitfest. I suppose this wouldn't have happened if Ashley wasn't the owner, I'll give you that. Then again, if Shepherd was still hear we probably would've kept Big Sam until at least this season and God knows where we'd be by now. Let's not play the "what if" game.

 

how has it improved ?

 

It hasn't. Football is the same as it always was. All teams and clubs evolve, and the team of 1996 would still be in there chasing the title right to the end.

 

 

 

If you honestly believe that the quality in the Premiership hasn't went up in the past decade, then you probably haven't been watching football at all.

 

Which wouldn't surprise me. Wanking over pictures of Freddie Shepherd must take up a lot of your time.

 

 

 

[Optimistic Nut]

If the Premiership hasn't improved, how the hell did Shepherd let us slip from the top 5, to 14th, 7th & 13th in his last 3 seasons?

[NE5]

During the Souness/Roeder era's, I honestly felt that "ah well, we've f***ed up but one solid season of rebuilding and we'll be in the top six."

 

Now? The best we can hope for in the short term right now is consolidating as lower-mid table club like Boro or Fulham. There is no light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Barring something truly extraordinary, like a billionaire takeover or somehow stumbling upon the next great up-and-coming manager, I simply don't see us breaking into the top half any time in the foreseeable future.

 

DISCLAIMER: No, I don't believe this has anything to do with change in ownership. Don't even try.

 

well, if you think that, what DO you think is the reason ?

 

Of course its because of the change of ownership.

 

Ambitions and standards have dropped. Nothing else could cause your change of attitude.

 

 

 

The fact that we've festered down here so long that we've used up any sort of good will we amassed during the Keegan and Robson eras. To incoming players, we're no longer a big club that's hit hard times, just another one of them s*** clubs.

 

The fact that the rest of the PL has improved so drastically in the past few years that it's no longer just a matter of throwing together any half-decent squad to become "the best of the rest." We now have to leapfrog the likes of Villa and Everton who have already entrenched themselves as near permanent fixtures in the top six, Man City, who have infinite money, and Tottenham, the greatest f***ing club on Earth.

 

The whole Keegan shitfest. I suppose this wouldn't have happened if Ashley wasn't the owner, I'll give you that. Then again, if Shepherd was still hear we probably would've kept Big Sam until at least this season and God knows where we'd be by now. Let's not play the "what if" game.

 

how has it improved ?

 

It hasn't. Football is the same as it always was. All teams and clubs evolve, and the team of 1996 would still be in there chasing the title right to the end.

 

 

 

If you honestly believe that the quality in the Premiership hasn't went up in the past decade, then you probably haven't been watching football at all.

 

Which wouldn't surprise me. Wanking over pictures of Freddie Shepherd must take up a lot of your time.

 

 

oh dear.

 

Dragging the place down now aren't you  How old are you exactly ?

 

 

[NE5]

If the Premiership hasn't improved, how the hell did Shepherd let us slip from the top 5, to 14th, 7th & 13th in his last 3 seasons?

 

How is it "better" ?

 

Do you not think the Keegan Newcastle team would challenge for the title ?

 

Do you think the England team of 1990 is not better than the one of the last few years ?

 

Why do you think that football "always" improves ?

 

Its not the case mate, believe me. There are plenty of players through the ages who would still walk into current teams. You are the best of your era, you can't do better than that and you can stand alongside the best players of any other era too.

 

 

 

 

[oldtype]

During the Souness/Roeder era's, I honestly felt that "ah well, we've f***ed up but one solid season of rebuilding and we'll be in the top six."

 

Now? The best we can hope for in the short term right now is consolidating as lower-mid table club like Boro or Fulham. There is no light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Barring something truly extraordinary, like a billionaire takeover or somehow stumbling upon the next great up-and-coming manager, I simply don't see us breaking into the top half any time in the foreseeable future.

 

DISCLAIMER: No, I don't believe this has anything to do with change in ownership. Don't even try.

 

well, if you think that, what DO you think is the reason ?

 

Of course its because of the change of ownership.

 

Ambitions and standards have dropped. Nothing else could cause your change of attitude.

 

 

 

The fact that we've festered down here so long that we've used up any sort of good will we amassed during the Keegan and Robson eras. To incoming players, we're no longer a big club that's hit hard times, just another one of them s*** clubs.

 

The fact that the rest of the PL has improved so drastically in the past few years that it's no longer just a matter of throwing together any half-decent squad to become "the best of the rest." We now have to leapfrog the likes of Villa and Everton who have already entrenched themselves as near permanent fixtures in the top six, Man City, who have infinite money, and Tottenham, the greatest f***ing club on Earth.

 

The whole Keegan shitfest. I suppose this wouldn't have happened if Ashley wasn't the owner, I'll give you that. Then again, if Shepherd was still hear we probably would've kept Big Sam until at least this season and God knows where we'd be by now. Let's not play the "what if" game.

 

how has it improved ?

 

It hasn't. Football is the same as it always was. All teams and clubs evolve, and the team of 1996 would still be in there chasing the title right to the end.

 

 

 

If you honestly believe that the quality in the Premiership hasn't went up in the past decade, then you probably haven't been watching football at all.

 

Which wouldn't surprise me. Wanking over pictures of Freddie Shepherd must take up a lot of your time.

 

 

oh dear.

 

Dragging the place down now aren't you  How old are you exactly ?

 

 

 

mackems.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(that was my attempt at a traditional NE5-style non response. Did I do good?)

[NE5]

During the Souness/Roeder era's, I honestly felt that "ah well, we've f***ed up but one solid season of rebuilding and we'll be in the top six."

 

Now? The best we can hope for in the short term right now is consolidating as lower-mid table club like Boro or Fulham. There is no light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Barring something truly extraordinary, like a billionaire takeover or somehow stumbling upon the next great up-and-coming manager, I simply don't see us breaking into the top half any time in the foreseeable future.

 

DISCLAIMER: No, I don't believe this has anything to do with change in ownership. Don't even try.

 

well, if you think that, what DO you think is the reason ?

 

Of course its because of the change of ownership.

 

Ambitions and standards have dropped. Nothing else could cause your change of attitude.

 

 

 

The fact that we've festered down here so long that we've used up any sort of good will we amassed during the Keegan and Robson eras. To incoming players, we're no longer a big club that's hit hard times, just another one of them s*** clubs.

 

The fact that the rest of the PL has improved so drastically in the past few years that it's no longer just a matter of throwing together any half-decent squad to become "the best of the rest." We now have to leapfrog the likes of Villa and Everton who have already entrenched themselves as near permanent fixtures in the top six, Man City, who have infinite money, and Tottenham, the greatest f***ing club on Earth.

 

The whole Keegan shitfest. I suppose this wouldn't have happened if Ashley wasn't the owner, I'll give you that. Then again, if Shepherd was still hear we probably would've kept Big Sam until at least this season and God knows where we'd be by now. Let's not play the "what if" game.

 

how has it improved ?

 

It hasn't. Football is the same as it always was. All teams and clubs evolve, and the team of 1996 would still be in there chasing the title right to the end.

 

 

 

If you honestly believe that the quality in the Premiership hasn't went up in the past decade, then you probably haven't been watching football at all.

 

Which wouldn't surprise me. Wanking over pictures of Freddie Shepherd must take up a lot of your time.

 

 

oh dear.

 

Dragging the place down now aren't you  How old are you exactly ?

 

 

 

mackems.gif

 

you made a childish post, and aren't mature enough to reply.

 

Smashing, well done.

 

 

[oldtype]

During the Souness/Roeder era's, I honestly felt that "ah well, we've f***ed up but one solid season of rebuilding and we'll be in the top six."

 

Now? The best we can hope for in the short term right now is consolidating as lower-mid table club like Boro or Fulham. There is no light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Barring something truly extraordinary, like a billionaire takeover or somehow stumbling upon the next great up-and-coming manager, I simply don't see us breaking into the top half any time in the foreseeable future.

 

DISCLAIMER: No, I don't believe this has anything to do with change in ownership. Don't even try.

 

well, if you think that, what DO you think is the reason ?

 

Of course its because of the change of ownership.

 

Ambitions and standards have dropped. Nothing else could cause your change of attitude.

 

 

 

The fact that we've festered down here so long that we've used up any sort of good will we amassed during the Keegan and Robson eras. To incoming players, we're no longer a big club that's hit hard times, just another one of them s*** clubs.

 

The fact that the rest of the PL has improved so drastically in the past few years that it's no longer just a matter of throwing together any half-decent squad to become "the best of the rest." We now have to leapfrog the likes of Villa and Everton who have already entrenched themselves as near permanent fixtures in the top six, Man City, who have infinite money, and Tottenham, the greatest f***ing club on Earth.

 

The whole Keegan shitfest. I suppose this wouldn't have happened if Ashley wasn't the owner, I'll give you that. Then again, if Shepherd was still hear we probably would've kept Big Sam until at least this season and God knows where we'd be by now. Let's not play the "what if" game.

 

how has it improved ?

 

It hasn't. Football is the same as it always was. All teams and clubs evolve, and the team of 1996 would still be in there chasing the title right to the end.

 

 

 

If you honestly believe that the quality in the Premiership hasn't went up in the past decade, then you probably haven't been watching football at all.

 

Which wouldn't surprise me. Wanking over pictures of Freddie Shepherd must take up a lot of your time.

 

 

oh dear.

 

Dragging the place down now aren't you  How old are you exactly ?

 

 

 

mackems.gif

 

you made a childish post, and aren't mature enough to reply.

 

Smashing, well done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(oh look, I've gone and done it again.)

[Andy]

Stop it.

[oldtype]

Apologies, I have this unfortunate tendency to descend to the level of whoever I'm responding to.

[Optimistic Nut]

If the Premiership hasn't improved, how the hell did Shepherd let us slip from the top 5, to 14th, 7th & 13th in his last 3 seasons?

 

How is it "better" ?

 

Do you not think the Keegan Newcastle team would challenge for the title ?

 

Do you think the England team of 1990 is not better than the one of the last few years ?

 

Why do you think that football "always" improves ?

 

Its not the case mate, believe me. There are plenty of players through the ages who would still walk into current teams. You are the best of your era, you can't do better than that and you can stand alongside the best players of any other era too.

 

 

 

I think the Keegan Newcastle team would probably finish between 4th & 6th around the likes of Arsenal & Villa. Prepared to be shot down here, but that's my opinion.

[oldtype]

If the Premiership hasn't improved, how the hell did Shepherd let us slip from the top 5, to 14th, 7th & 13th in his last 3 seasons?

 

How is it "better" ?

 

Do you not think the Keegan Newcastle team would challenge for the title ?

 

Do you think the England team of 1990 is not better than the one of the last few years ?

 

Why do you think that football "always" improves ?

 

Its not the case mate, believe me. There are plenty of players through the ages who would still walk into current teams. You are the best of your era, you can't do better than that and you can stand alongside the best players of any other era too.

 

 

 

I think the Keegan Newcastle team would probably finish between 4th & 6th around the likes of Arsenal & Villa. Prepared to be shot down here, but that's my opinion.

 

It also goes beyond just a direct comparison in quality. Back in Keegan or even Robson's days it was easy to build a team that could put away opponents in the bottom half of the league with consistency.

 

These days teams like Villa will have their bad days where they're completely outplayed by a team like us. Not only is the league much better in general, it's also much more level. (Excluding the "top four," of course)

[Offshore]

The proof that the premiership standard of football has improved is shown by the way English teams are now doing very well in the champions league, so well in fact that Platini has started to whinge about it.

 

KK's team was ace though.

[Optimistic Nut]

The proof that the premiership standard of football has improved is shown by the way English teams are now doing very well in the champions league, so well in fact that Platini has started to whinge about it.

 

KK's team was ace though.

 

Exactly. We regularly get 3 or 4 English clubs in the last 8 of the Champions League these days, when we were competing at the top, our sides struggled to get out of the first group.

[Adam]

We have Ranger, stop be so fucking emo

 

[NE5]

If the Premiership hasn't improved, how the hell did Shepherd let us slip from the top 5, to 14th, 7th & 13th in his last 3 seasons?

 

How is it "better" ?

 

Do you not think the Keegan Newcastle team would challenge for the title ?

 

Do you think the England team of 1990 is not better than the one of the last few years ?

 

Why do you think that football "always" improves ?

 

Its not the case mate, believe me. There are plenty of players through the ages who would still walk into current teams. You are the best of your era, you can't do better than that and you can stand alongside the best players of any other era too.

 

 

 

I think the Keegan Newcastle team would probably finish between 4th & 6th around the likes of Arsenal & Villa. Prepared to be shot down here, but that's my opinion.

 

It also goes beyond just a direct comparison in quality. Back in Keegan or even Robson's days it was easy to build a team that could put away opponents in the bottom half of the league with consistency.

 

These days teams like Villa will have their bad days where they're completely outplayed by a team like us. Not only is the league much better in general, it's also much more level. (Excluding the "top four," of course)

 

as detached from the true reality as those who attempted to suggest that under Ashley we were trying to sign young players with potential for the first time in our history.

 

What you say is nothing new, it's always happened and always will.

 

 

[Baggio]

The standard of football in the Premiership is far better now, the main reason is because of the number of quality foreign players now playing in this country.

 

If you go back to when the Premiership started there was only 11 'foreigners' (none UK and ROI) in the starting line ups on the first day, now I'd say there's probably 50% of foreign players in the first teams now and they are of a far better standard than most of the English/Welsh/Scottish dross kicking around back then.

[Optimistic Nut]

The standard of football in the Premiership is far better now, the main reason is because of the number of quality foreign players now playing in this country.

 

If you go back to when the Premiership started there was only 11 'foreigners' (none UK and ROI) in the starting line ups on the first day, now I'd say there's probably 50% of foreign players in the first teams now and they are of a far better standard than most of the English/Welsh/Scottish dross kicking around back then.

 

Yeah. Most of the players in mid-table sides back then, would struggle to get into a Championship side these days.

[oldtype]

If the Premiership hasn't improved, how the hell did Shepherd let us slip from the top 5, to 14th, 7th & 13th in his last 3 seasons?

 

How is it "better" ?

 

Do you not think the Keegan Newcastle team would challenge for the title ?

 

Do you think the England team of 1990 is not better than the one of the last few years ?

 

Why do you think that football "always" improves ?

 

Its not the case mate, believe me. There are plenty of players through the ages who would still walk into current teams. You are the best of your era, you can't do better than that and you can stand alongside the best players of any other era too.

 

 

 

I think the Keegan Newcastle team would probably finish between 4th & 6th around the likes of Arsenal & Villa. Prepared to be shot down here, but that's my opinion.

 

It also goes beyond just a direct comparison in quality. Back in Keegan or even Robson's days it was easy to build a team that could put away opponents in the bottom half of the league with consistency.

 

These days teams like Villa will have their bad days where they're completely outplayed by a team like us. Not only is the league much better in general, it's also much more level. (Excluding the "top four," of course)

 

as detached from the true reality as those who attempted to suggest that under Ashley we were trying to sign young players with potential for the first time in our history.

 

What you say is nothing new, it's always happened and always will.

 

 

 

NE5, isn't it a fact (I know you like that word) that in the mid-90s, the Premiership was maybe the fifth or sixth most prestigious league in the world, when now it is unquestionably number one?

 

Isn't it a fact that the talent pool in the 90s was mostly limited to players from the British Isles (with a few notable exceptions,) while now the best talent in the world flocks to the league?

 

Isn't it the fact that the Premiership has been absolutely dominating the Champions League in recent years?

 

Isn't it the fact that the amount of money in the league has increased nearly a tenfold in the past decade?

 

Despite all that, are you sure the Premiership is still the same old league it was in the 90s?

[CaliMag]

The future does indeed look grim in the short term, but in the long term things don't look that bad.

 

On the financial front:

Unless Ashley decides to rob the club under the table like Ridsdale or indebt us into oblivion the way Abromovich is NUFC is in a pretty good place. The unspoken reality of the article quoted in the Guardian is that the world is in financial collapse and, like generals always doomed to fight the last war, the leaders of the world economy are looking for old solutions. These old solutions include the overvaluation of old media like TV rights which will steadily decline in value as will DVD sales. Like the music industry there will be a massive resurgence in the value of real ticket sales and a revaluation of football assets that will benefit NUFC disproportionately. Even a paltry 40K a week is still better than the vast majority of ... well... all football clubs.

 

On the talent front:

I also believe we are about to enter one of those cycles where players will be declining in value as well. Simply because the money is running out. With the lack of cash we will be forced to once again rely upon our academy. Our Academy looks pretty good right now - this is the first time I remember ever feeling that way in a long time. We have always tended to overestimate our U18 lads but this year the proof is in their record which is very good (the table doesn't lie).

 

Despite all of these positive points I would not rule out us being relegated this season. I am just trying to be unusually (irrationally perhaps) upbeat.

[Ronaldo]

A massive problem is the fact that Kinnear's here trying to make an impression in the short term (ie comfortably avoiding relegation) in order to get the job long term.

 

-Intent to get rid of Xisco and enrique, generally trying to hurridly push them out the door

-Bringing in 30 year old journeymen

-Preserving the place of Butt and Duff, unwilling to defer from the workmanlike performers

-Making it clear he sees Owen as our best striker by far, in an effort to encourage Mike to offer him a large contract

 

 

all shows an extreme lack of long-term insight, I can see it biting us in the arse big time come the summer, if we survive. Martins will want out, N'zogbia already does, Jonas will probably end up behind Duff in the pecking order etc etc.

Fresh talent like Xisco and Enrique long gone, replaced by Warnock, Ferguson and Danny Murphy. And the dead wood will still be here, with their 2/3 year extensions. Doesn't look good at all.