Isegrim Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I meant to say that I could not see Wenger or Ferguson throwing away such a lead. Wenger and Ferguson have never lost after being ahead in a match? Amazing stat if so. I couldn't ever see Wenger throwing away, say, a champions league final once his team were in front. It just wouldn't happen, he's not so tactically naive as to ever let his players concede a goal. He'd also never let a fierce local rival score two goals in the last couple of minutes to come back from being 2-4 down. At least not at home... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 There was an element of bottling it in that season, though it had little to do with Keegan, it was more a case of some players suffering from vertigo once we reached the final stages. Rob Lee and Ferdinand were on fire in the first half of the season but the goals dried up in the second. Which is one reason why the difference may have been Venison, had he not be allowed to leave. It was also a lot to do with the amazing last 15 or 16 games from manure that is constantly overlooked. Really, the 12 point lead isn't the main thing here anyway. The media like to sensationalise and it's a better story (even if true) that Keegan bottled it on TV and threw away a 12 point lead when compared to Man Utd winning the league again due in huge part to an absolutely amazing run-in. It's played over 38 games and the bottom line is the best team wins the league. We were second best overall despite being ahead for large parts of it. We didn't win, but to suggest a manager is hopeless who takes a club from where Keegan started to where it was at that point is lunacy. Would agree with all of that, especially Man U's amazing run at the end. You can't really legislate for that, and tbh finishing runners up with a team that had only been promoted a couple of seasons earlier was no small achievement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 There was an element of bottling it in that season, though it had little to do with Keegan, it was more a case of some players suffering from vertigo once we reached the final stages. Rob Lee and Ferdinand were on fire in the first half of the season but the goals dried up in the second. Which is one reason why the difference may have been Venison, had he not be allowed to leave. It was also a lot to do with the amazing last 15 or 16 games from manure that is constantly overlooked. Really, the 12 point lead isn't the main thing here anyway. The media like to sensationalise and it's a better story (even if true) that Keegan bottled it on TV and threw away a 12 point lead when compared to Man Utd winning the league again due in huge part to an absolutely amazing run-in. It's played over 38 games and the bottom line is the best team wins the league. We were second best overall despite being ahead for large parts of it. We didn't win, but to suggest a manager is hopeless who takes a club from where Keegan started to where it was at that point is lunacy. Would agree with all of that, especially Man U's amazing run at the end. You can't really legislate for that, and tbh finishing runners up with a team that had only been promoted a couple of seasons earlier was no small achievement. Absolutely. The pivotal moment was clearly the defeat at home to manure and that was absolutely nowt at all to do with Keegan supposedly bottling it. Even a draw in that game and I think we'd have gone on to win the league but it wasn't to be. I'm as disappointed as anyone else but these things happen. Keegan made mistkes, who doesn't and for that he can be criticised like anybody else, but I'm not going to generally slag the bloke who gave us our best team since 1927 in the manner some do on this forum. To do so is pathetic and sad imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 There was an element of bottling it in that season, though it had little to do with Keegan, it was more a case of some players suffering from vertigo once we reached the final stages. Rob Lee and Ferdinand were on fire in the first half of the season but the goals dried up in the second. Which is one reason why the difference may have been Venison, had he not be allowed to leave. It was also a lot to do with the amazing last 15 or 16 games from manure that is constantly overlooked. Really, the 12 point lead isn't the main thing here anyway. The media like to sensationalise and it's a better story (even if true) that Keegan bottled it on TV and threw away a 12 point lead when compared to Man Utd winning the league again due in huge part to an absolutely amazing run-in. It's played over 38 games and the bottom line is the best team wins the league. We were second best overall despite being ahead for large parts of it. We didn't win, but to suggest a manager is hopeless who takes a club from where Keegan started to where it was at that point is lunacy. Would agree with all of that, especially Man U's amazing run at the end. You can't really legislate for that, and tbh finishing runners up with a team that had only been promoted a couple of seasons earlier was no small achievement. Absolutely. The pivotal moment was clearly the defeat at home to manure and that was absolutely nowt at all to do with Keegan supposedly bottling it. Even a draw in that game and I think we'd have gone on to win the league but it wasn't to be. I'm as disappointed as anyone else but these things happen. Keegan made mistkes, who doesn't and for that he can be criticised like anybody else, but I'm not going to generally slag the bloke who gave us our best team since 1927 in the manner some do on this forum. To do so is pathetic and sad imo. That ManU game was unreal. Were it not for Peter Schmeichal we'd have won that night and, imo, gone on to win the league. Performances like that where why he was the best keeper in the world mind, probably the best I've ever seen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca888 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 As I recall, we lost the league by 4 points that year. A draw in the game against Man Utd would have seen us still lose the league by 2 points. We lost the league because we could not defend leads in the last 20 minutes against Blackburn and Liverpool plus dropping a point at Notts Forest, a game we were also ahead in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relámpago blanco Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 As I recall, we lost the league by 4 points that year. A draw in the game against Man Utd would have seen us still lose the league by 2 points. We lost the league because we could not defend leads in the last 20 minutes against Blackburn and Liverpool plus dropping a point at Notts Forest, a game we were also ahead in. We lost the league because footballs rigged and Vince McMahan decided Man U would win it that season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 As I recall, we lost the league by 4 points that year. A draw in the game against Man Utd would have seen us still lose the league by 2 points. We lost the league because we could not defend leads in the last 20 minutes against Blackburn and Liverpool plus dropping a point at Notts Forest, a game we were also ahead in. That's very simplistic, of course. Teams don't "lose" the league, by the way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 As I recall, we lost the league by 4 points that year. A draw in the game against Man Utd would have seen us still lose the league by 2 points. We lost the league because we could not defend leads in the last 20 minutes against Blackburn and Liverpool plus dropping a point at Notts Forest, a game we were also ahead in. It would have seen them win it by one, actually, not that the conjuncture isn't ridiculous. You don't think we would have been demoralised by losing a game we dominated? That win gave manu the belief that they could win, and they were unstoppable after it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UV Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 There was an element of bottling it in that season, though it had little to do with Keegan, it was more a case of some players suffering from vertigo once we reached the final stages. Rob Lee and Ferdinand were on fire in the first half of the season but the goals dried up in the second. Which is one reason why the difference may have been Venison, had he not be allowed to leave. It was also a lot to do with the amazing last 15 or 16 games from manure that is constantly overlooked. Really, the 12 point lead isn't the main thing here anyway. The media like to sensationalise and it's a better story (even if true) that Keegan bottled it on TV and threw away a 12 point lead when compared to Man Utd winning the league again due in huge part to an absolutely amazing run-in. It's played over 38 games and the bottom line is the best team wins the league. We were second best overall despite being ahead for large parts of it. We didn't win, but to suggest a manager is hopeless who takes a club from where Keegan started to where it was at that point is lunacy. Would agree with all of that, especially Man U's amazing run at the end. You can't really legislate for that, and tbh finishing runners up with a team that had only been promoted a couple of seasons earlier was no small achievement. Absolutely. The pivotal moment was clearly the defeat at home to manure and that was absolutely nowt at all to do with Keegan supposedly bottling it. Even a draw in that game and I think we'd have gone on to win the league but it wasn't to be. I'm as disappointed as anyone else but these things happen. Keegan made mistkes, who doesn't and for that he can be criticised like anybody else, but I'm not going to generally slag the bloke who gave us our best team since 1927 in the manner some do on this forum. To do so is pathetic and sad imo. That ManU game was unreal. Were it not for Peter Schmeichal we'd have won that night and, imo, gone on to win the league. Performances like that where why he was the best keeper in the world mind, probably the best I've ever seen. Man U had Schmeichal in the form of his life while we had Shaka & Pav. Of course we conceded 2 more goals than them that season due to "Newcastle's suspect defence"1 and "Keegan's tactical naivety "2. 1. © A. Hanson 2. © Sky Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UV Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 We lost the league because we could not defend leads in the last 20 minutes against Blackburn and Liverpool plus dropping a point at Notts Forest, a game we were also ahead in. It's just a shame Keegan didn't have the benefit of your tactical genius and have us sit back and defend for over half an hour at Liverpool who scored more goals at home than anyone else that year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca888 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Its swings and roundabouts. You can argue till the cows come home about NUFC being demoralised, MUFC getting a new lease of life. What it all boils down to is NUFC lost crucial games that they were leading because of the managers inability to close these games up with good tactical defensive substitutions whilst MUFC took full advantage. Also, Keegan embarrassed himself and displayed his niavety live on TV with his "i will love it" comments proved his inability as a manager to handle the psychological war being conducted by Fergie. The league was there to be won, HTL and should have been won. I doubt Bobby Robson or someone of his ilk would have lost the opportunity if in a similar position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 We lost the league because we could not defend leads in the last 20 minutes against Blackburn and Liverpool plus dropping a point at Notts Forest, a game we were also ahead in. It's just a shame Keegan didn't have the benefit of your tactical genius and have us sit back and defend for over half an hour at Liverpool who scored more goals at home than anyone else that year. He could at least have pressed ALT+F4 tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 We lost the league because we could not defend leads in the last 20 minutes against Blackburn and Liverpool plus dropping a point at Notts Forest, a game we were also ahead in. It's just a shame Keegan didn't have the benefit of your tactical genius and have us sit back and defend for over half an hour at Liverpool who scored more goals at home than anyone else that year. He could at least have pressed ALT+F4 tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Its swings and roundabouts. You can argue till the cows come home about NUFC being demoralised, MUFC getting a new lease of life. What it all boils down to is NUFC lost crucial games that they were leading because of the managers inability to close these games up with good tactical defensive substitutions whilst MUFC took full advantage. Also, Keegan embarrassed himself and displayed his niavety live on TV with his "i will love it" comments proved his inability as a manager to handle the psychological war being conducted by Fergie. The league was there to be won, HTL and should have been won. I doubt Bobby Robson or someone of his ilk would have lost the opportunity if in a similar position. alternativly it could be argued that we only got into that position in the first place by not making defensive substitutions when leading. something wenger and ferguson tend not to do either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 As I recall, we lost the league by 4 points that year. A draw in the game against Man Utd would have seen us still lose the league by 2 points. We lost the league because we could not defend leads in the last 20 minutes against Blackburn and Liverpool plus dropping a point at Notts Forest, a game we were also ahead in. personally i think we lost the league because overall man utd were slightly the better team. as man utd were going off on their run we were stuttering even at home. winning but not looking anyway near convincing (particularly against the likes of bolton and QPR) and that form was played out through quite a bit of the rest of the season. liverpool away was probably about the best we played in the last 3 or 4 months of the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 As I recall, we lost the league by 4 points that year. A draw in the game against Man Utd would have seen us still lose the league by 2 points. We lost the league because we could not defend leads in the last 20 minutes against Blackburn and Liverpool plus dropping a point at Notts Forest, a game we were also ahead in. personally i think we lost the league because overall man utd were slightly the better team. as man utd were going off on their run we were stuttering even at home. winning but not looking anyway near convincing (particularly against the likes of bolton and QPR) and that form was played out through quite a bit of the rest of the season. liverpool away was probably about the best we played in the last 3 or 4 months of the season. West Ham at home was the best I've ever seen us play. That was that year wasn't it? Agree with you though madras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 As I recall, we lost the league by 4 points that year. A draw in the game against Man Utd would have seen us still lose the league by 2 points. We lost the league because we could not defend leads in the last 20 minutes against Blackburn and Liverpool plus dropping a point at Notts Forest, a game we were also ahead in. personally i think we lost the league because overall man utd were slightly the better team. as man utd were going off on their run we were stuttering even at home. winning but not looking anyway near convincing (particularly against the likes of bolton and QPR) and that form was played out through quite a bit of the rest of the season. liverpool away was probably about the best we played in the last 3 or 4 months of the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 As I recall, we lost the league by 4 points that year. A draw in the game against Man Utd would have seen us still lose the league by 2 points. We lost the league because we could not defend leads in the last 20 minutes against Blackburn and Liverpool plus dropping a point at Notts Forest, a game we were also ahead in. personally i think we lost the league because overall man utd were slightly the better team. as man utd were going off on their run we were stuttering even at home. winning but not looking anyway near convincing (particularly against the likes of bolton and QPR) and that form was played out through quite a bit of the rest of the season. liverpool away was probably about the best we played in the last 3 or 4 months of the season. Aye, and it was still a learning curve for the players. How many teams win the league at their first attempt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Bored of these recent logical and insightful posts. Can we please get back to the ignorance of blaming Keegan? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Bored of these recent logical and insightful posts. Can we please get back to the ignorance of blaming Keegan? Its much more fun ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UV Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 The only reason we haven't appointed Peter Kenyon yet is because of Keegan. How do I know this? Lets just say that I know and leave it at that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 The only reason we haven't appointed Peter Kenyon yet is because of Keegan. How do I know this? Lets just say that I know and leave it at that. I'd rather say you haven't a f***ing clue and leave it at that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 As I recall, we lost the league by 4 points that year. A draw in the game against Man Utd would have seen us still lose the league by 2 points. We lost the league because we could not defend leads in the last 20 minutes against Blackburn and Liverpool plus dropping a point at Notts Forest, a game we were also ahead in. personally i think we lost the league because overall man utd were slightly the better team. as man utd were going off on their run we were stuttering even at home. winning but not looking anyway near convincing (particularly against the likes of bolton and QPR) and that form was played out through quite a bit of the rest of the season. liverpool away was probably about the best we played in the last 3 or 4 months of the season. West Ham at home, by far Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 As I recall, we lost the league by 4 points that year. A draw in the game against Man Utd would have seen us still lose the league by 2 points. We lost the league because we could not defend leads in the last 20 minutes against Blackburn and Liverpool plus dropping a point at Notts Forest, a game we were also ahead in. personally i think we lost the league because overall man utd were slightly the better team. as man utd were going off on their run we were stuttering even at home. winning but not looking anyway near convincing (particularly against the likes of bolton and QPR) and that form was played out through quite a bit of the rest of the season. liverpool away was probably about the best we played in the last 3 or 4 months of the season. West Ham at home, by far hence the probably and about (also taking into account the quality of the oppo). lots of unconvincing performances from jan onwards. man utd had a marginally better good part of the season than we did. that was the difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 As I recall, we lost the league by 4 points that year. A draw in the game against Man Utd would have seen us still lose the league by 2 points. We lost the league because we could not defend leads in the last 20 minutes against Blackburn and Liverpool plus dropping a point at Notts Forest, a game we were also ahead in. personally i think we lost the league because overall man utd were slightly the better team. as man utd were going off on their run we were stuttering even at home. winning but not looking anyway near convincing (particularly against the likes of bolton and QPR) and that form was played out through quite a bit of the rest of the season. liverpool away was probably about the best we played in the last 3 or 4 months of the season. # remember telling my mates in the Red house after the bolton game, I didnt think we would win the league, it didnt go down well., but something was gone by that game,. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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