NE5 Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I wouldn't class myself as one of their supporters, otherwise I'd be a member. I just don't see the need for such venomous criticism from fellow fans, especially when they have no intention of making any effort to contribute. I went along today and listened and heard nothing I agreed with. Seeing as you haven't answered, all they've achieved today is to further alienate more of the people they claim to want to represent. Out of interest, what else do you think the average fan on the street could do? I honestly just can't see how you can say this. Did you go along to the rally like? What did you hear there that you think will contribute to improving the situation? yes I was at the rally. They are limited in respect of what they can do about it , all they can do is make known to ashley that he isn't wanted by them * as supporters of the club. * whose numbers will continue to grow while Ashley and his cahoots continue their chosen path as it stands. Aye but they were insistent that that wasn't the theme for the rally. It is NOT an 'Ashley Out!' rally. I would be inclined to think if they had came out and said this, permission to hold it would not have been given. However, its a supporters club, not saying anybody deliberately lied but its only natural that they deal with current issues, the same as we are doing on message boards, the same as phone ins, the same as the press, the same as anything ? Did anybody expect them to pay tribute to Mike Ashley ? Not being funny like . It's true that if they'd said it was going to be a protest they might have had issues with the police, but they definitely did deliberately lie because, like I said somewhere back in this (or the other) thread, they basically said it was going to be a protest at the meeting. There's two points arising from that: One: How is it going to impact on their future dealings with the police, now that they know that NUSC have tried to take them for mugs, are the fuzz going to believe them the next time they want to do something like this? It's hardly a good way to go about building a relationship between NUSC and an agency that they'll have to have dealings with in the future and one that has a huge amount of power over them and can basically prevent them from doing almost anything they might want to do if they piss them off. This provides yet more evidence to back up an argument I've made a number of times previously; that NUSC don't think through their actions and therefore are doing a bad job of supporting their members' interests. Two: It provides yet another example of NUSC's hypocrisy. We can now add; lying about their true intentions, to; poor communication, not being interested in hearing opposing views, putting their own agenda ahead of the good of the club, taking money from the fans for very little return, and so-on. Almost everything they've accused Ashley and the club of doing they've done too. Surely if you're going to base the whole reason for your existence upon criticism of someone else then you've got to make damn sure you don't then do the exact same things? thing is though, the potential is there for any sort of protest to get out of hand, they signalled their intention/hope was for it to be a peaceful one. And it was, so I don't think there would be any problem at all with holding another. I don't know what you mean about hypocrisy ie not listening to others' views. The current situation is that people are joining up because they want ashley out, when he has gone they will be joining up for the reason thats its just a supporters club. This current political situation is a temporary one, you do see that ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4413/dscn6062.jpg In general, I thought it went well, although I was a bit disappointed about that particular banner, which is not an NUSC one. Why did NUSC allow it to be there then? NUSC don't own Greys Monument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I wouldn't class myself as one of their supporters, otherwise I'd be a member. I just don't see the need for such venomous criticism from fellow fans, especially when they have no intention of making any effort to contribute. I went along today and listened and heard nothing I agreed with. Seeing as you haven't answered, all they've achieved today is to further alienate more of the people they claim to want to represent. Out of interest, what else do you think the average fan on the street could do? I honestly just can't see how you can say this. Did you go along to the rally like? What did you hear there that you think will contribute to improving the situation? yes I was at the rally. They are limited in respect of what they can do about it , all they can do is make known to ashley that he isn't wanted by them * as supporters of the club. * whose numbers will continue to grow while Ashley and his cahoots continue their chosen path as it stands. Aye but they were insistent that that wasn't the theme for the rally. It is NOT an 'Ashley Out!' rally. I would be inclined to think if they had came out and said this, permission to hold it would not have been given. However, its a supporters club, not saying anybody deliberately lied but its only natural that they deal with current issues, the same as we are doing on message boards, the same as phone ins, the same as the press, the same as anything ? Did anybody expect them to pay tribute to Mike Ashley ? Not being funny like . They specifically said it wouldn't be what it turned out to be though. I agree that they might have struggled to get the go-ahead for it based on what actually went on, but then why do you think that is? Do you think that means the police think they should be paying tribute to Ashley? howay man, you don't think if they said it was going to be a "protest" the police would have gave permission for a potential mob of pissed up football fans parading through the city centre ? I'm agreeing with you man. mackems.gif I just can't see what was gained by saying one thing & doing another. EDIT: I appreciate the irony of that last sentence given the current situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4413/dscn6062.jpg In general, I thought it went well, although I was a bit disappointed about that particular banner, which is not an NUSC one. Why did NUSC allow it to be there then? It did fit in with an awful lot of the speech unfortunately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indi Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4413/dscn6062.jpg In general, I thought it went well, although I was a bit disappointed about that particular banner, which is not an NUSC one. Why did NUSC allow it to be there then? NUSC don't own Greys Monument. And? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4413/dscn6062.jpg In general, I thought it went well, although I was a bit disappointed about that particular banner, which is not an NUSC one. Why did NUSC allow it to be there then? NUSC don't own Greys Monument. And? They cant stop people putting banners up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indi Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I wouldn't class myself as one of their supporters, otherwise I'd be a member. I just don't see the need for such venomous criticism from fellow fans, especially when they have no intention of making any effort to contribute. I went along today and listened and heard nothing I agreed with. Seeing as you haven't answered, all they've achieved today is to further alienate more of the people they claim to want to represent. Out of interest, what else do you think the average fan on the street could do? I honestly just can't see how you can say this. Did you go along to the rally like? What did you hear there that you think will contribute to improving the situation? yes I was at the rally. They are limited in respect of what they can do about it , all they can do is make known to ashley that he isn't wanted by them * as supporters of the club. * whose numbers will continue to grow while Ashley and his cahoots continue their chosen path as it stands. Aye but they were insistent that that wasn't the theme for the rally. It is NOT an 'Ashley Out!' rally. I would be inclined to think if they had came out and said this, permission to hold it would not have been given. However, its a supporters club, not saying anybody deliberately lied but its only natural that they deal with current issues, the same as we are doing on message boards, the same as phone ins, the same as the press, the same as anything ? Did anybody expect them to pay tribute to Mike Ashley ? Not being funny like . It's true that if they'd said it was going to be a protest they might have had issues with the police, but they definitely did deliberately lie because, like I said somewhere back in this (or the other) thread, they basically said it was going to be a protest at the meeting. There's two points arising from that: One: How is it going to impact on their future dealings with the police, now that they know that NUSC have tried to take them for mugs, are the fuzz going to believe them the next time they want to do something like this? It's hardly a good way to go about building a relationship between NUSC and an agency that they'll have to have dealings with in the future and one that has a huge amount of power over them and can basically prevent them from doing almost anything they might want to do if they piss them off. This provides yet more evidence to back up an argument I've made a number of times previously; that NUSC don't think through their actions and therefore are doing a bad job of supporting their members' interests. Two: It provides yet another example of NUSC's hypocrisy. We can now add; lying about their true intentions, to; poor communication, not being interested in hearing opposing views, putting their own agenda ahead of the good of the club, taking money from the fans for very little return, and so-on. Almost everything they've accused Ashley and the club of doing they've done too. Surely if you're going to base the whole reason for your existence upon criticism of someone else then you've got to make damn sure you don't then do the exact same things? thing is though, the potential is there for any sort of protest to get out of hand, they signalled their intention/hope was for it to be a peaceful one. And it was, so I don't think there would be any problem at all with holding another. I don't know what you mean about hypocrisy ie not listening to others' views. The current situation is that people are joining up because they want ashley out, when he has gone they will be joining up for the reason thats its just a supporters club. This current political situation is a temporary one, you do see that ? NUFC supporters have many wants and needs, I see no sign of NUSC wanting to address anything other than one of them, one I don't agree with. If/when NUSC becomes a supporters' club I'll support it, until then I won't, for the reasons I've given many times before. I see no sign of NUSC being interested in any opinion other than their own regarding the one thing that they do actually seem to have an opinion on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indi Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4413/dscn6062.jpg In general, I thought it went well, although I was a bit disappointed about that particular banner, which is not an NUSC one. Why did NUSC allow it to be there then? NUSC don't own Greys Monument. And? They cant stop people putting banners up. Of course they could. There's only one reason why that banner remained there during their rally and that's because they agree with it, what do you think would have happened if someone had put up a huge "We love Mike Ashley" banner? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4413/dscn6062.jpg In general, I thought it went well, although I was a bit disappointed about that particular banner, which is not an NUSC one. Why did NUSC allow it to be there then? NUSC don't own Greys Monument. And? They cant stop people putting banners up. Of course if they had asked, the police would have removed it for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4413/dscn6062.jpg In general, I thought it went well, although I was a bit disappointed about that particular banner, which is not an NUSC one. Why did NUSC allow it to be there then? NUSC don't own Greys Monument. And? They cant stop people putting banners up. Of course they could. There's only one reason why that banner remained there during their rally and that's because they agree with it, what do you think would have happened if someone had put up a huge "We love Mike Ashley" banner? They are not the law, it is not up to them what stays or not. I guess they wouldn't of agreed with it but are you saying the likes of Tom or Mala Shield would rip it down in front of the watching cops? The Pro-Palestinians at Greys Monument did not rip the flag off the women waving the Israel flag or the women get in the faces of pro-Palestinians because it is a public place for ALL people to do a bit of rallying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4413/dscn6062.jpg In general, I thought it went well, although I was a bit disappointed about that particular banner, which is not an NUSC one. Why did NUSC allow it to be there then? NUSC don't own Greys Monument. And? They cant stop people putting banners up. Of course if they had asked, the police would have removed it for them. On what grounds? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indi Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4413/dscn6062.jpg In general, I thought it went well, although I was a bit disappointed about that particular banner, which is not an NUSC one. Why did NUSC allow it to be there then? NUSC don't own Greys Monument. And? They cant stop people putting banners up. Of course they could. There's only one reason why that banner remained there during their rally and that's because they agree with it, what do you think would have happened if someone had put up a huge "We love Mike Ashley" banner? They are not the law, it is not up to them what stays or not. I guess they wouldn't of agreed with it but are you saying the likes of Tom or Mala Shield would rip it down in front of the watching cops? The Pro-Palestinians at Greys Monument did not rip the flag off the women waving the Israel flag or the women get in the faces of pro-Palestinians because it is a public place for ALL people to do a bit of rallying. You're seriously saying that they've have given their speeches in front of a huge "We love Mike Ashley" banner, you're seriously telling me that banner doesn't represent the majority of NUSC members' views? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4413/dscn6062.jpg In general, I thought it went well, although I was a bit disappointed about that particular banner, which is not an NUSC one. Why did NUSC allow it to be there then? NUSC don't own Greys Monument. And? They cant stop people putting banners up. Of course they could. There's only one reason why that banner remained there during their rally and that's because they agree with it, what do you think would have happened if someone had put up a huge "We love Mike Ashley" banner? They are not the law, it is not up to them what stays or not. I guess they wouldn't of agreed with it but are you saying the likes of Tom or Mala Shield would rip it down in front of the watching cops? The Pro-Palestinians at Greys Monument did not rip the flag off the women waving the Israel flag or the women get in the faces of pro-Palestinians because it is a public place for ALL people to do a bit of rallying. You're seriously saying that they've have given their speeches in front of a huge "We love Mike Ashley" banner, you're seriously telling me that banner doesn't represent the majority of NUSC members' views? If I said that I am sure you would of quoted it What I am saying is NUSC can not stop people putting banners up, yes I think some/lot of there members may agree with the banner that went up but Tom is a NUSC member something me & you are not & he said he was disappointed, so at the moment out of all the NUSC members posts I have read 100% of them were not keen on that banner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4413/dscn6062.jpg In general, I thought it went well, although I was a bit disappointed about that particular banner, which is not an NUSC one. Why did NUSC allow it to be there then? NUSC don't own Greys Monument. And? They cant stop people putting banners up. Of course if they had asked, the police would have removed it for them. On what grounds? On the grounds that it was interfering with the rally which they needed permission for. Assuming the banner had nothing to do with them, they wouldn't have had any problem getting it removed as it had no business being fastened to the Monument when they had permission to be there. As indi says they'd have had no problem getting the police to remove any pro-Ashley stuff would they? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4413/dscn6062.jpg In general, I thought it went well, although I was a bit disappointed about that particular banner, which is not an NUSC one. Why did NUSC allow it to be there then? NUSC don't own Greys Monument. And? They cant stop people putting banners up. Of course if they had asked, the police would have removed it for them. On what grounds? On the grounds that it was interfering with the rally which they needed permission for. As indi says they'd have had no problem getting the police to remove any pro-Ashley stuff would they? I think your wrong if that was the case when a legal BNP march takes place a skinhead would be telling the cops to remove all the banners from the anti-nazi league members who turn up at BNP marches with banners. It just does not work like that at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4413/dscn6062.jpg In general, I thought it went well, although I was a bit disappointed about that particular banner, which is not an NUSC one. Why did NUSC allow it to be there then? NUSC don't own Greys Monument. And? They cant stop people putting banners up. Of course if they had asked, the police would have removed it for them. On what grounds? On the grounds that it was interfering with the rally which they needed permission for. Assuming the banner had nothing to do with them, they wouldn't have had any problem getting it removed as it had no business being fastened to the Monument when they had permission to be there. As indi says they'd have had no problem getting the police to remove any pro-Ashley stuff would they? they don't have any right to remove any banner from anywhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4413/dscn6062.jpg In general, I thought it went well, although I was a bit disappointed about that particular banner, which is not an NUSC one. Why did NUSC allow it to be there then? NUSC don't own Greys Monument. And? They cant stop people putting banners up. Of course if they had asked, the police would have removed it for them. On what grounds? On the grounds that it was interfering with the rally which they needed permission for. As indi says they'd have had no problem getting the police to remove any pro-Ashley stuff would they? I think your wrong if that was the case when a legal BNP march takes place a skinhead would be telling the cops to remove all the banners from the anti-nazi league members who turn up at BNP marches with banners. It just does not work like that at all. You can argue all you want. Unless permission had been granted for it to be there, if they'd have asked, the police would have removed it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4413/dscn6062.jpg In general, I thought it went well, although I was a bit disappointed about that particular banner, which is not an NUSC one. Why did NUSC allow it to be there then? NUSC don't own Greys Monument. And? They cant stop people putting banners up. Of course if they had asked, the police would have removed it for them. On what grounds? On the grounds that it was interfering with the rally which they needed permission for. Assuming the banner had nothing to do with them, they wouldn't have had any problem getting it removed as it had no business being fastened to the Monument when they had permission to be there. As indi says they'd have had no problem getting the police to remove any pro-Ashley stuff would they? they don't have any right to remove any banner from anywhere. Any banner at all? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4413/dscn6062.jpg In general, I thought it went well, although I was a bit disappointed about that particular banner, which is not an NUSC one. Why did NUSC allow it to be there then? NUSC don't own Greys Monument. And? They cant stop people putting banners up. Of course if they had asked, the police would have removed it for them. On what grounds? On the grounds that it was interfering with the rally which they needed permission for. As indi says they'd have had no problem getting the police to remove any pro-Ashley stuff would they? I think your wrong if that was the case when a legal BNP march takes place a skinhead would be telling the cops to remove all the banners from the anti-nazi league members who turn up at BNP marches with banners. It just does not work like that at all. You can argue all you want. Unless permission had been granted for it to be there, if they'd have asked, the police would have removed it. I guess we will never know as no one did turn up with a pro-ashley banner. Anyone thinking of taking a pro-Ashley banner to a NUSC rally remember the London Met got blown out of court for there cops on the ground taking Free Tibet banners & them cops got told do this by people with more power than Mala Shield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indi Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I'm more than prepared to believe that Tom is genuinely disappointed that that banner was there, however I am not prepared to believe that his view is the predominant one amongst the rest of the NUFC leaders or membership. I also, don't think that the argument that they couldn't or wouldn't have taken it down if they'd wanted to holds much water, especially if you're trying to claim that they didn't take it down after carefully considering the legalities of whether or not they could do so. There's one reason that banner was allowed to hang there and that's because the majority of NUSC actively wanted it there and those that didn't either were ambivalent to it being there or didn't want to go against the majority. Having said that, this is a pointless and stupid argument, so I'm going to stop now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Out of curiosity, what songs were sung if any? Was there swearing involved? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 At the end of the day these agitation groups don't mean that much in themselves, but falling revenues whether from season ticket sales or lack of sponsors will. Ashley needs to give the fans something to hang their hats on next season,whether it's a quality manager or a a few decent players. Really it should be both and I'm hopeful it will be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Really it should be both and I'm hopeful it will be. And if not? A question to you and the open forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Really it should be both and I'm hopeful it will be. And if not? A question to you and the open forum. Really it should be both and I'm hopeful it will be. And if not? A question to you and the open forum. Everyone has a choice how they want to spend their money. If you don't think you are getting value for it then spend it somewhere else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timnufc22 Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Really it should be both and I'm hopeful it will be. And if not? A question to you and the open forum. The appointment of the right manager is the biggest thing Ashley can do, and where ambition can be judged on - where the actually position can then be looked upon as a credible one. And where Wise's role would also seem more credible. I want to believe they have good ambitions, but the fact they offered Kinnear 2 years makes that very hard to believe and can only make me think they want a yes man. But again, prove me & everyone else wrong in the summer, I'm willing & want to see him do that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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