Assuming we stay up...

[Dave]

I wonder what will happen if these rumours are right and Wise does go in the summer, will we apoint another DOF or just scrap the system?

I would like to think the DOF idea will be forgot about but I do not have faith that Ashley will do the right thing.

 

I don't think there was any truth in those stories at all. Rags just trying to get hits/sales by creating something they knew many NUFC fans would want to read (and believe).

[Skirge]

I wonder what will happen if these rumours are right and Wise does go in the summer, will we apoint another DOF or just scrap the system?

I would like to think the DOF idea will be forgot about but I do not have faith that Ashley will do the right thing.

 

I don't think there was any truth in those stories at all. Rags just trying to get hits/sales by creating something they knew many NUFC fans would want to read (and believe).

Ssssshhhhhhhhhhh do not go dashing my hopes like that Dave, I think getting shot of the DOF system would be a massive step twards moving us forward.

 

I agree though really do not see Wise walking or being sacked, he is on way to much of a cushy number here.

[Decky]

I think if we stay up and don't get sold in the summer, relegation will be a nigh-on dead cert next time out. Too many players going out and no ambition to replace them adequately will see us sink like a stone.

 

If we go down this season, it will be with a respectable amount of points, next season we probably wouldnt get to 20 with Kinnear.

[LoveItIfWeBeatU]

I wish I could assume we stay up.

 

If we do I'm not encouraged by the possibility of Kinnear continuing as manager. I'd love to know who the "top managers" applying for the job were when Lambias said it at that meeting with the fans (unless he was just quoting Shepherd for a laugh).

 

Getting rid of people like Viduka doesn't bother me as he never plays. Cacapa will be no loss and who knows if they'll bother to keep Edgar. Owen is too expensive for what he brings to the team.

 

I'd rather we kept struggling to stay up than get relegated. Ashley has implemented some good ideas. I'd hate for us to get relegated and lose the likes of Bassong.

[Rich]

IF Llambias and Ashley are genuine about not taking anything out AND putting £10m a season in, then I still have cause to be optimistic if we manage to stay up again.

 

As others have mentioned the main thing is that we get those who can be classed as a "drain on resources" (don't offer anything back for their income) off the wage-bill and that the money freed is available immediately for reinvestment as transfers on players who may not get paid as much but who will hopefully offer a lot more to the team.

 

Mark Viduka and Claudio Cacapa are the two main culprits on this score, as an educated guess, and I'd also expect to see David Edgar leave as well (although I appreciate he probably gets paid relative peanuts and I wouldn't be too upset if he stayed).

 

Michael Owen is the real contentious issue though. As the poster above says he probably earns more than he's worth, mainly due to his injury record, but losing him again leaves the club open to massive criticism and is again seen as a major lack of ambition. From a personal perspective I wouldn't be too upset to see him go, especially if a decent enough replacement was brought in (surely the club could do something with an extra £5.2m+ per season?) Llambias and Co. will need thick skin again, like.

 

Then you move onto the likes of Smith, Geremi and Ameobi, who I suppose a lot of us would be happy to see go if any decent offers came in. You'd bet that those three would be responsible for £100k p/w easily between them as far as wages go and even if you bring in a couple of players who are quality and don't take up as much of the budget then you'd be moving forwards as none of them are good enough/involved enough to be genuinely missed.

 

The other contentious one who fits in here, for me, is Damien Duff. While he has shown signs of improvement and appears to be one of Kinnear's favoured players, he must be one of the highest earners in the squad and for many he wouldn't be in a first choice XI. The decision there is whether we can afford to pay someone who isn't an automatic choice such a massive wage, especially when he doesn't even offer much when he is on the park.

 

I DO have enough faith in the "recruitment" team to replace these players adequately (especially with the wiggle-room they'd get on the wage front) and I don't think they would be too difficult to replace if all of them went, to be honest, as you've only got to look at appearances between them/form between them to see just exactly what we'd be missing for the £15m+ per year or so they'll be taking out of the club.

 

As long as the money saved is spent on transfers (in installments!) and a big enough chunk is allowed for wages (say £10m of the suggest £15m for wages with the extra £5m p/y used as installments in transfers as a crude example) then I think we'd see things moving onwards and upwards.

 

I'm not overly confident we'll even stay up though and even then everything I've said is "ideal scenario". My faith in the current regime certainly doesn't extend to believing that they are capable of doing things "ideally".

[TRon]

No, this isn't much of a positive thread.

 

There are a lot of people who feel they should defend Ashley's plan/gamble based on the finances being much healthier next year should we stay up. I think they're hoping that with better finances, some wasters off the wage bill and this season out of the way, we can look to settle the club down and move forward and upwards in the league.

 

The thing that worries me should we stay up is that Ashley/Llambias will think things have worked out okay and try the same next season. Cheap manager (they already seem to have decided this), cheap players (Ameobi, Butt etc) and looking purely to keep our heads above water. The recent comments from Llambias about the squad being 'great' really concern me, because I totally disagree. Especially when you take into account the players who are definitely leaving in the summer, those who may jump ship and the calibre of manager the club are expecting to manage them effectively.

 

I'm waffling here, so I guess I'm just asking what gives people confidence that should we stay up this year things will automatically improve in the coming seasons? Am I being overly cynical here or what?

 

The squad isn't as bad as it appears though, for two years running we've been without the services of Joey Barton who is our most influential midfielder, in theory at least, and Viduka hasn't been available either. Long term injuries like these have a big impact on results and performances. We are weak in central midfield and we could do with a genuine right sided midfielder.

 

I'm not confident that this is all going to be put right next season, it seems we will be building gradually as income streams improve year on year. That's the plan, whether it works or goes belly up with relegation is still up for debate.

 

The managerial situation is what worries me. Kinnear has already brought in two players that I don't think Keegan would have looked at twice in Nolan and Taylor, although it's not fair to judge Taylor while he's being played in midfield. Hiring a cheap manager could turn out to be very expensive in the long run.

[Guest Phil K]

Safe hands ? With Ashley and Lambsie, and Ole Shear Heart Attack, and the Thompson Twins as coaches ?

Safe Hands ? The club would be in safer hands with Dr Crippin, Dr Shipman, and Hannibal Lecter.

[Begbie]

The first thing we must sort out is a manager with potential(not a has been) and he must also agree to follow Ashleys plan/policy. He must be able to choose his own coaching staff, cant see the likes off Hughton, Calderwood, and our physioos (who cant get our players out on the pitch) getting the club back into europe.

 

The players for next season imo is:

Goalkeepers:

Krul and Forster(Harper is to old)

 

Defenders:

Coloccini, Bassong, Enrique, S.Taylor, and Beye

 

Midfielders:

Nolan, Barton Guthrie, and Jonas

 

Strikers:

Xisco, and Martins

 

I am assuming Owen will leave the club anyway, and he isnt worth the wages he receives anyway.

 

Leaving:

Harper(coaching role?), Owen, Cacapa, Duff, Butt, Smith, Geremi, Ameobi, Lovenkrands, Viduka, and Carroll

With all these players gone we will have gotten some money + loosing some wages.

 

Some of our youngsters needs to get a shot at first team football next season, to gain experience.  Our defence look good, so we need to get some youngsters to cover for our first team players. We need a new right winger and a new striker and some backup players. If its true that Mike Ashley only will put in 10M, and we wil maybe get 10M for those players if we are lucky, then we'll need some bargains more than ever.

[David Icke - Son of God]

If we don't go down this season we'll go down next unless MA sells up.

 

Ten million pounds is a paltry amount to put in during the summer especially when the squad is in the state ours is. Anyone who says they'd be satisfied with that level of investment is a liar or an idiot.

[Tachikoma]

If we don't go down this season we'll go down next unless MA sells up.

 

Ten million pounds is a paltry amount to put in during the summer especially when the squad is in the state ours is. Anyone who says they'd be satisfied with that level of investment is a liar or an idiot.

 

That investment really shouldn't be equated to the amount of transfer funds we have available; given the size of the club, the lack of spending this season, our lack of debts to pay for and the clearing of deadwood, we should have a more than decent war chest (going by history) despite MA's lack of investment. What I'm really worried about is MA tightening the purse strings to tap our income for himself.

[David Icke - Son of God]

If we don't go down this season we'll go down next unless MA sells up.

 

Ten million pounds is a paltry amount to put in during the summer especially when the squad is in the state ours is. Anyone who says they'd be satisfied with that level of investment is a liar or an idiot.

 

That investment really shouldn't be equated to the amount of transfer funds we have available; given the size of the club, the lack of spending this season, our lack of debts to pay for and the clearing of deadwood, we should have a more than decent war chest (going by history) despite MA's lack of investment. What I'm really worried about is MA tightening the purse strings to tap our income for himself.

 

That's a huge assumption to make and one that flies in the face of everything the current regime have done so far.

 

I have no faith in them to invest heavily. All the noises coming from the club are that we're going to be ran on a tiny budget (Llambias' £8 million comment in the interview with Thompson House, DL saying we have a 'great squad', offering Kinnear who is currently the third lowest paid manager in the top flight a new deal etc.) in the hope we tread water long enough for the club to start 'making money' or for the youth players Wise and his scattergun approach to scouting have picked up turn out decent enough to play in the first team.

 

If they were serious about investing they'd have put money into the club in January and not left the wheeling and dealing until the final day. We're in the shit and needed new players then but few were forthcoming. I don't believe that they'll pour a large amount in this summer to bail water out of this sinking ship, no way.

[binnsy]

Agree with that, if we somehow survive this year, under this management structure and club ownership we'll go down next season.  Club is a shambles from top to bottom.

[sugoinufc]

I guess the proof will be in what he does in the few weeks after the end of the season if we are still a Prem club anyway, if JK is still offered the new deal or if he sets about trying to find a propper manager, the budget will always be a worry but a decent manager if more important than big transfer funds.

 

Very true Skirge, I guess this thread all comes down to the choice of manager again. But then with us seemingly looking to do things differently to every other club (the inexperienced DOF system and payment up front/receipt over years), will they be able to entice anyone better? I'm not so sure.

 

3 x agree

 

Thats just it though, we won't, no manager in their right mind would want the job, I am not convinced even JK will take the new offer if its still on the table, the DOF thing has to go its a stupid idea but then add to it the fact thats its Wise makes it 10x worse again.

Every manager wants money but some are able to work on a non massive amount, like Bruce he knows and understands at Wigan that he oes not have fortubes to play with yet has still done a good job.

But no way would he want to work under Wise.

Works the other way to though, no point having a large budget then giving the money to a iidiot like JK to spend, the balance is what we need, non over the top spending but a clever enough manager whoc an work the trander window.

No Wise or any DOF and Bruce with £20mill in a transfer window could be an okay situation, it just won't happen.

[Frazzle]

Goalkeepers:

Krul and Forster(Harper is to old)

 

Harper is too old? He's young a a keeper, Van der Saar is 38.

 

With that logic we would've gotten rid of Given at the end of next season.

[oldtype]

It's all down to the managerial appointment imo. If Kinnear is indeed offered a three-year contract, we're done as a Premiership football club one way or another because

 

1. Joe Kinnear is our manager

 

and

 

2. That tells you all you need to know about Mike Ashley's intentions.

[Yorkie]

The future of the club, as we know it, hinges on the next managerial appointment imo. If it's Kinnear then it's seeya later alligator imo... at best - the club's progress will be extremely limited and we'll end up just throwing stacks of cash away on Kinnear's shite, going nowhere. Worst case scenario, and most likely, we'll just get relegated and that'll be it.

[sugoinufc]

basically what we need to do is quiet simple:

 

1st: Kinnear, most of the coaching staff and D. Wise must leave.

 

2nd: replace with someone who can work under the budget, but have "full" control over which players goes or comes. I kind of like the idea of a quiet young and unproven (at this level) manager.

 

3rd: Get rid of players like: Duff, geremi, viduka, smith, butt, ameobi, cacapa (løvenkrands, caroll, owen)

 

keep the defence, cover for LB, buy 1 attacking central midfield or at least CM and buy 1 RW. Depending who goes in attack...we could be sorted in that department if these stays.

owen: (which would be good to keep coz we could attract other players and have experience if build a younger side. Has to accept a cut in wages

 

martins:

 

Caroll

 

Xisco

 

 

 

[dcmk]

basically what we need to do is quiet simple:

 

1st: Kinnear, most of the coaching staff and D. Wise must leave.

 

2nd: replace with someone who can work under the budget, but have "full" control over which players goes or comes. I kind of like the idea of a quiet young and unproven (at this level) manager.

 

3rd: Get rid of players like: Duff, geremi, viduka, smith, butt, ameobi, cacapa (løvenkrands, caroll, owen)

 

keep the defence, cover for LB, buy 1 attacking central midfield or at least CM and buy 1 RW. Depending who goes in attack...we could be sorted in that department if these stays.

owen: (which would be good to keep coz we could attract other players and have experience if build a younger side. Has to accept a cut in wages

 

martins:

 

Caroll

 

Xisco

 

 

 

 

The only strikers i would keep would be Martins and Loven.  Carroll - is a championship striker imo and Xisco - if he was good would of played more games considering the awful amount of injuries to our strikers.

[David Icke - Son of God]

The future of the club, as we know it, hinges on the next managerial appointment imo. If it's Kinnear then it's seeya later alligator imo... at best - the club's progress will be extremely limited and we'll end up just throwing stacks of cash away on Kinnear's shite, going nowhere. Worst case scenario, and most likely, we'll just get relegated and that'll be it.

 

Wise's shite, please. He discovered Bassong yer kna!!11!!1one

[Yorkie]

No, this isn't much of a positive thread.

 

There are a lot of people who feel they should defend Ashley's plan/gamble based on the finances being much healthier next year should we stay up. I think they're hoping that with better finances, some wasters off the wage bill and this season out of the way, we can look to settle the club down and move forward and upwards in the league.

 

The thing that worries me should we stay up is that Ashley/Llambias will think things have worked out okay and try the same next season. Cheap manager (they already seem to have decided this), cheap players (Ameobi, Butt etc) and looking purely to keep our heads above water. The recent comments from Llambias about the squad being 'great' really concern me, because I totally disagree. Especially when you take into account the players who are definitely leaving in the summer, those who may jump ship and the calibre of manager the club are expecting to manage them effectively.

 

I'm waffling here, so I guess I'm just asking what gives people confidence that should we stay up this year things will automatically improve in the coming seasons? Am I being overly cynical here or what?

 

The squad isn't as bad as it appears though, for two years running we've been without the services of Joey Barton who is our most influential midfielder, in theory at least, and Viduka hasn't been available either. Long term injuries like these have a big impact on results and performances. We are weak in central midfield and we could do with a genuine right sided midfielder.

 

I'm not confident that this is all going to be put right next season, it seems we will be building gradually as income streams improve year on year. That's the plan, whether it works or goes belly up with relegation is still up for debate.

 

The managerial situation is what worries me. Kinnear has already brought in two players that I don't think Keegan would have looked at twice in Nolan and Taylor, although it's not fair to judge Taylor while he's being played in midfield. Hiring a cheap manager could turn out to be very expensive in the long run.

 

Great post and i like the highlighted bit, particularly. That's the irony of it all. We'll end up either having to pay him off, or paying for it via our league position - on top of whatever cash we give him to spend on his shite no-hopers.

 

As for our squad, i agree there aswell, it's not a bad squad at all. The two positions that weren't rectified in the summer remain the same, centre-midfield and full-back. We could do with a genuine right-winger aswell, like you say.

 

But... that's going on top of what we've got at the moment. Whatever departures we have to contend with... well, we'll have to cross that bridge when we come to it. But that's something else the appointment of Kinnear will cause, a big exodus of players. If Oba, Owen, Jonas, Bassong, Colo, etc, get the first sniff of a departure - they'll take it, and they'd be right to do so. And i don't trust him to bring in like-for-like quality.

 

Honestly, if we appoint Kinnear, then i've lost all hope altogether.

[David Icke - Son of God]

basically what we need to do is quiet simple:

 

1st: Kinnear, most of the coaching staff and D. Wise must leave.

 

2nd: replace with someone who can work under the budget, but have "full" control over which players goes or comes. I kind of like the idea of a quiet young and unproven (at this level) manager.

 

3rd: Get rid of players like: Duff, geremi, viduka, smith, butt, ameobi, cacapa (løvenkrands, caroll, owen)

 

keep the defence, cover for LB, buy 1 attacking central midfield or at least CM and buy 1 RW. Depending who goes in attack...we could be sorted in that department if these stays.

owen: (which would be good to keep coz we could attract other players and have experience if build a younger side. Has to accept a cut in wages

 

martins:

 

Caroll

 

Xisco

 

 

 

 

The only strikers i would keep would be Martins and Loven.  Carroll - is a championship striker imo and Xisco - if he was good would of played more games considering the awful amount of injuries to our strikers.

 

Personally I think our front line is complete dirge barring Owen. We're going to be in this situation next season if wre stay up and none of the other strikers at the club are capable of scoring enough goals to keep us up.

[sugoinufc]

basically what we need to do is quiet simple:

 

1st: Kinnear, most of the coaching staff and D. Wise must leave.

 

2nd: replace with someone who can work under the budget, but have "full" control over which players goes or comes. I kind of like the idea of a quiet young and unproven (at this level) manager.

 

3rd: Get rid of players like: Duff, geremi, viduka, smith, butt, ameobi, cacapa (løvenkrands, caroll, owen)

 

keep the defence, cover for LB, buy 1 attacking central midfield or at least CM and buy 1 RW. Depending who goes in attack...we could be sorted in that department if these stays.

owen: (which would be good to keep coz we could attract other players and have experience if build a younger side. Has to accept a cut in wages

 

martins:

 

Caroll

 

Xisco

 

 

 

 

The only strikers i would keep would be Martins and Loven.  Carroll - is a championship striker imo and Xisco - if he was good would of played more games considering the awful amount of injuries to our strikers.

 

yeah, but it could be hard to change 10+ faces in the squad in one window! you are right that martins is important to our team. I dont see lovenkrands better than xisco and caroll....they have more potential i believe! they could partner owen or martins ok i guess....but i wouldnt mind a new good striker like bendtner or some other "big/strong" dude if ameobi, løvenkrands and caroll leaves....just dont believe its the most important department at the moment. Xisco needed adjustment and have been injuried and maybe "looked over" thinking of all the chances ameobi had....couldnt have been worse, too early to write him off (i hope)

[sugoinufc]

basically what we need to do is quiet simple:

 

1st: Kinnear, most of the coaching staff and D. Wise must leave.

 

2nd: replace with someone who can work under the budget, but have "full" control over which players goes or comes. I kind of like the idea of a quiet young and unproven (at this level) manager.

 

3rd: Get rid of players like: Duff, geremi, viduka, smith, butt, ameobi, cacapa (løvenkrands, caroll, owen)

 

keep the defence, cover for LB, buy 1 attacking central midfield or at least CM and buy 1 RW. Depending who goes in attack...we could be sorted in that department if these stays.

owen: (which would be good to keep coz we could attract other players and have experience if build a younger side. Has to accept a cut in wages

 

martins:

 

Caroll

 

Xisco

 

 

 

 

The only strikers i would keep would be Martins and Loven.  Carroll - is a championship striker imo and Xisco - if he was good would of played more games considering the awful amount of injuries to our strikers.

 

Personally I think our front line is complete dirge barring Owen. We're going to be in this situation next season if wre stay up and none of the other strikers at the club are capable of scoring enough goals to keep us up.

 

goalscoring strikers are important! but its not our strikers fault we are in this mess. Ok, they have been injuried a lot .....which means we haven´t had any consistency on top. For me the problem is our midfield which dosen´t provide anything for the strikers. Our midfield isn´t helping our ok defence either!

[dcmk]

basically what we need to do is quiet simple:

 

1st: Kinnear, most of the coaching staff and D. Wise must leave.

 

2nd: replace with someone who can work under the budget, but have "full" control over which players goes or comes. I kind of like the idea of a quiet young and unproven (at this level) manager.

 

3rd: Get rid of players like: Duff, geremi, viduka, smith, butt, ameobi, cacapa (løvenkrands, caroll, owen)

 

keep the defence, cover for LB, buy 1 attacking central midfield or at least CM and buy 1 RW. Depending who goes in attack...we could be sorted in that department if these stays.

owen: (which would be good to keep coz we could attract other players and have experience if build a younger side. Has to accept a cut in wages

 

martins:

 

Caroll

 

Xisco

 

 

 

 

The only strikers i would keep would be Martins and Loven.  Carroll - is a championship striker imo and Xisco - if he was good would of played more games considering the awful amount of injuries to our strikers.

 

Personally I think our front line is complete dirge barring Owen. We're going to be in this situation next season if wre stay up and none of the other strikers at the club are capable of scoring enough goals to keep us up.

 

goalscoring strikers are important! but its not our strikers fault we are in this mess. Ok, they have been injuried a lot .....which means we haven´t had any consistency on top. For me the problem is our midfield which dosen´t provide anything for the strikers. Our midfield isn´t helping our ok defence either!

 

Goalscoring strikers are important that's why we need to get rid of Carroll and Xisco, Owen doesn't offer much for his salary and the amount of games he plays in a year.  Martins is the only one who can create something out of nothing and scares defenders 

[sugoinufc]

basically what we need to do is quiet simple:

 

1st: Kinnear, most of the coaching staff and D. Wise must leave.

 

2nd: replace with someone who can work under the budget, but have "full" control over which players goes or comes. I kind of like the idea of a quiet young and unproven (at this level) manager.

 

3rd: Get rid of players like: Duff, geremi, viduka, smith, butt, ameobi, cacapa (løvenkrands, caroll, owen)

 

keep the defence, cover for LB, buy 1 attacking central midfield or at least CM and buy 1 RW. Depending who goes in attack...we could be sorted in that department if these stays.

owen: (which would be good to keep coz we could attract other players and have experience if build a younger side. Has to accept a cut in wages

 

martins:

 

Caroll

 

Xisco

 

 

 

 

The only strikers i would keep would be Martins and Loven.  Carroll - is a championship striker imo and Xisco - if he was good would of played more games considering the awful amount of injuries to our strikers.

 

Personally I think our front line is complete dirge barring Owen. We're going to be in this situation next season if wre stay up and none of the other strikers at the club are capable of scoring enough goals to keep us up.

 

goalscoring strikers are important! but its not our strikers fault we are in this mess. Ok, they have been injuried a lot .....which means we haven´t had any consistency on top. For me the problem is our midfield which dosen´t provide anything for the strikers. Our midfield isn´t helping our ok defence either!

 

Goalscoring strikers are important that's why we need to get rid of Carroll and Xisco, Owen doesn't offer much for his salary and the amount of games he plays in a year.  Martins is the only one who can create something out of nothing and scares defenders 

 

martins is our best striker, for sure! owen i wouldn´t mind staying if he accept a cut in wages. but if he leaves with viduka and 1 or 2 more strikers we need to buy. Agree we could use a quality striker.....personally i wouldn´t mind bendtner to partner martins or someone else who can create something on his own. all i want is to sort out our midfield first!