Hillsborough disaster

[Guest TheSummerOf69]

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab58/pleasedonotthrow/nufc/WSC2.jpg

 

Sorry but in my opinion ultimatley the biggest fault was with the fans no one else.

 

 

The orchestrated campaign to blame the fans had such heinous lies as the fans breaking down the gates causing the crush. In fact it was the police that ordered the gate opened, instead of delaying kick-off, and then let the fans desperate to see  the start of the semi-final surge into the middle terrace via a narrow tunnel instead of directing them to the quite unpopulated paddocks to both sides of the heaving middle one.

 

It was the police who were pushing fans back in to their deaths when they tried to escape by climbing over the fence between them and the pitch (because they couldn't imagine anything other than troublemakers).

 

It was the police who wouldn't let the ambulances onto the pitch while fans were desperately using advertising hoards as makeshift stretchers.

 

Your comment is uninformed and moronic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

How the Hillsborough disaster happened

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7992845.stm

 

On 15 April 1989, 96 Liverpool fans were crushed to death and hundreds more injured on the steel-fenced terraces of Sheffield Wednesday's stadium, which was hosting that year's FA Cup semi-final.

 

The inquiry into the disaster led by Lord Chief Justice Taylor established that main cause was a failure of police crowd control.

 

Events began to unfold from around 1430 on what was a bright and sunny day. The game was to be a repeat of the 1988 semi-final, in which Liverpool had faced Nottingham Forest at the same venue.

 

Liverpool fans had begun arriving at the ground from midday, but had to enter their designated stand at Leppings Lane through a small number of decrepit turnstiles.

 

Once inside, many made their way on to the terraced lower stand which was ringed with blue-painted steel fences and laterally divided into five separate "pens".

 

Fencing had been put up by many football clubs during the 1970s and 80s to control crowds and prevent pitch invasions.

 

By about 1450, pens 3 and 4 - those directly behind the goal - were full, but outside the ground thousands of fans were still waiting to get in.

 

The pens' official combined capacity was 2,200. It was later discovered that this should have been reduced to 1,600 as crush barriers installed three years earlier did not meet official safety standards.

 

At 1452, police ordered a large exit gate - Gate C - to be opened to alleviate the crush outside the ground. Around 2,000 fans then made their way into the ground and headed straight for a tunnel leading directly to pens 3 and 4.

 

This influx caused severe crushing in the pens. Fans began climbing over side fences into the relatively less packed pens 1 and 5 to escape.

 

It was later estimated that more than 3,000 supporters were admitted to the central pens - almost double the "safe" capacity.

 

At 1500, the game kicked off. Five minutes later a crush barrier in pen 3 gave way, causing people to fall on top of each other.

 

Supporters continued to climb perimeter fences to escape, while others were dragged to safety by fans in the upper tiers.

 

At 1506, a policeman ran on to the pitch and ordered the referee to stop the game. In the chaotic aftermath, supporters tore up advertising hoardings to use as makeshift stretchers and tried to administer first aid to the injured.

 

The authorities' response to the disaster was slow and badly co-ordinated. Firefighters with cutting gear had difficulty getting into the ground, and although dozens of ambulances were dispatched, access to the pitch was delayed because police were reporting "crowd trouble".

 

Of the 96 people who died, only 14 were ever admitted to hospital.

 

 

Report findings

 

In his interim report on 4 August 1989, Lord Justice Taylor wrote that the key element of police control at fault was the failure to close off the tunnel leading to pens 3 and 4 once Gate C had been opened.

 

He went on to criticise police for their failure to handle the build-up of fans outside the ground properly, and their slow reaction to the unfolding disaster.

 

Some of his strongest words were reserved for the police commander, Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield, for "failing to take effective control", and South Yorkshire police, who attempted to blame supporters for the crush by arriving at the ground "late and drunk".

 

Despite the Taylor report, which was also critical of Sheffield Wednesday Football Club and Sheffield City Council, on 14 August 1990 the director of public prosecutions decided not to bring criminal charges against any individual, group or body on the grounds of insufficient evidence.

 

Inquests into the deaths of the victims returned a majority verdict of accidental death, but many families did not accept this and began to campaign for a fresh inquiry.

 

In the wake of renewed public and media interest in the disaster which followed the broadcast of Jimmy McGovern's documentary-drama Hillsborough in 1996, Home Secretary Jack Straw ordered a "scrutiny of evidence".

 

Duckenfield and Murray faced displinary proceedings and both left the force

 

Lord Justice Stuart-Smith was appointed to review "new" evidence which had not been submitted to the inquiry or inquests and also dozens of police and witness statements, apparently critical of police, which had been altered.

 

Lord Justice Stuart-Smith's conclusion was that the fresh evidence did not add anything significant to the understanding of the disaster, and that while statements should not have been edited, this was simply an "error of judgement".

 

Jack Straw accepted the findings and ruled out a new inquiry, but in August 1998 the Hillsborough Family Support group brought charges of manslaughter against David Duckenfield and his deputy, Superintendent Bernard Murray, in a private prosecution.

 

The case came to trial in 2000. After six weeks the jury found Mr Murray not guilty of manslaughter, and said it could not reach a verdict on Mr Duckenfield.

 

The judge, Mr Justice Hooper, ruled out a majority verdict and refused a retrial on the grounds that Mr Duckenfield had faced public humiliation and a fair trial would be impossible.

 

In 2006, Anne Williams, the mother of 15-year-old victim Kevin Williams, took a case to the European Court of Human Rights challenging the verdict of the original inquest.

 

Family support groups and campaigners believe that if the court decides that there is a case to be heard, it will place pressure on the British government to open a new inquiry.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tsunami]

The street up to The Leppings Lane End and the tunnel once in are all made for a bottle neck. Add in fencing once on the terrace and you are in a cage. For our visits they'd open the side pens once the middle ones looked full. If some clown opens up an exit get at the turnstiles of course they'll head for the tunnel. Those of us who have been there know this and will also remember how the SY police dealt with fans. Stop any coach, car or van which looked like it had away supports in and escort them to a parking place. Once at the ground you were viewed as scum. As a 15 year old I nearly got refused entry for being drunk - I hadn't had a drop.

 

The police had been through the miners strike and basically seemed to take this forward to conflict with fans who to be fair could be trouble at that time.

 

I've no doubt that had Nufc been in that game that we would have had that end, that we would have had both ticketless and pissed up supporters and the very same policemen would have been there with the same incompetent man in charge. This wasn't Heysel; what happened really could have happened to any other club.

 

The supporters played some part in this but without doubt the policing was the single biggest factor.

[Revolution Number 9]

Everyone blames everyone else when in reality all are to blame. Scousers for attempting to get in by any means possible,police lack of control. Ibrox had there issues when fans left the ground down the stairs only to attempt a return back up them when they (Rangers ) I believe got an equalizer, its all down to the herd instinct and all wanting something for nowt. Sorry but in my opinion ultimatley the biggest fault was with the fans no one else.

 

Even the authorities via the Taylor report admitted that it wasn't down to the fans.

 

The problem with the police attitude towards the fans then was that they couldn't get past an entrenched view of fans as nothing but troublemakers. This is reflected in the Sun's front page the day after a major disaster at the semi-final of a high profile football tournament - they couldn't get past the "it's all the fans' fault" angle. It's a shame to read people still peddling this ridiculous view - one that is grossly insulting to the bereaved families.

Taylor admits in his report that there was a drunken minority of fans that exacerbated the situation. Although he puts most of the blame on the police, not once does he ever say in that report that the fans are completely blameless like some people like to think.

[Guest TheSummerOf69]

Fans, going to an FA Cup semi-final, having a drink then wanting to get in to see the match before it kicks-off? This isn't criminal (unlike the authorities' reaction).

 

And I too remember the South Yorkshire police being by far the worst ones you'd come across in following the Toon around the country. We weren't a million miles from a police state in the dark days of Thatcher. It was a particularly bad time to be working class.

[Revolution Number 9]

I'm not saying the authorities weren't the main cause, just that the fans weren't all little angels. There was more than one factor lead to that disaster.

[Tsunami]

I'm not saying the authorities weren't the main cause, just that the fans weren't all little angels. There was more than one factor lead to that disaster.

 

All fans are never angels and the policing should be planned appropriately and proportionately to the risk. The police operation was a shambles.

[Guest PhilB]

I'm not saying the authorities weren't the main cause, just that the fans weren't all little angels. There was more than one factor lead to that disaster.

 

All fans are never angels and the policing should be planned appropriately and proportionately to the risk. The police operation was a shambles.

 

Exactly, was just going to say that.  There are drunken fans at every match and the policing operation includes this in their operational plans.

[Big Geordie]

Just read this on TF and thought it worth sharing;

 

http://www.true-faith.co.uk/tf/features.nsf/0/E5F62305B59DA56D8025790E0024B591?OpenDocument

 

REPORTAGE - 17/SEP/11 

 

Why Tory Hillsborough documents must be released before Thatcher dies - Brian Reade, The Mirror

I’ve lost count of the number of people I’ve heard these past 22 years ask why the Hillsborough Families won’t let it lie.

Move on, you can’t bring back your loved ones, so let it go, they say.

 

I heard it again this week after a 140,00-strong petition compelled parliament to debate whether documents relating to Margaret Thatcher’s handling of the 1989 disaster should be released uncensored.

 

“What good will it do?” someone asked me. I’d like to explain.

 

A few years ago I asked Trevor Hicks if he thought he’d ever establish the truth about why he lost his two beautiful teenage daughters that day.

 

He told me he already had. He was in no doubt that they died through police incompetence, inadequate safety procedures, a non-existant emergency service response and a culture that had allowed society to view all football fans as dangerous scum and stick them in metal cages.

 

He sought another truth. Why the Establishment had wriggled out of all blame, smeared the fans as killers, lied about their actions and refused to take any responsibility for the deaths, thus denying the deceased justice and the bereaved closure.

 

And he said if he could be granted one wish before he died it would be to find out what was said between Margaret Thatcher and police chiefs when she visited the Leppings Lane terrace the day after the disaster.

 

Because someone in high places had told him that Thatcher decided it was imperative that the police were exonerated. That the consequences for a force she treated almost as her private army, would be immense if (as Lord Justice Taylor’s report later demanded) they took the rap for 96 deaths in their care.

 

And so the cover-up began with her press adviser Bernard Ingham briefing the media that the disaster had been caused by a “tanked-up mob”.

 

Three days later the Thatcher-supporting Sun’s infamous front-page about fans urinating on the dead and stealing from their pockets appeared after collusion between the Police Federation and a Tory MP. The story went round the world that drunken fans killed their own. And the truth was buried.

 

So for Trevor Hicks, the Thatcher documents, which constitute the minutes from that Sheffield meeting and other correspondence with her ministers, could be the smoking gun that proves a conspiracy which went right to the top of the Tory government.

 

Which is why it’s no surprise that the current one is fighting to stop those secret papers being made public despite the Information Commissioner demanding it be done.

 

If, as the families suspect, the Tories have something to hide, we need to find out what it is. Which is why MPs will demand next month that every document relating to Thatcher’s role be released in an “unrestricted, uncensored and unredacted” form.

 

If they win the day it won’t just be a great day for the 96 but for football. Because hers was the government that caged fans, that thought about bringing in electric fences, moats and ID cards and would willingly have killed the game.

 

If they win I don’t care whether the documents go straight into the public domain or to the independent Hillsborough panel. As someone lucky enough to survive that day though, I do have one wish. That if those papers contain the smoking gun, the trigger is pulled in public before Thatcher dies.

 

Because I’ve waited a long time to see that bullet fly.

 

---------------------

 

I bet Maggie will pop her clogs before the truth finally comes out.

[Guest TheSummerOf69]

Once again, if you haven't signed then please do. There are issues here that many of us can relate to who lived through Thatcherism and the miners' strike (and corresponding police brutality), or anyone who ever went to an away match before the '90s (especially in South Yorkshire) or has been on a dangerously over-crowded terrace, or has - worst of all by a million miles - lost a loved one through the actions or incompetence of others...

 

The government was obliged to reply after the petition reached 100 000 signatures, which it did with ease.

 

I would still urge everyone to sign it. It will place more pressure on those at the top.

Start here, then click the link you're emailed to sign (you're safe - it's a govt site):

 

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/2199

 

 

If you are in any doubt then read the original post to this thread, or click on the link in my sig...

[summerof69]

Being debated in the house of commons now.

[CaliMag]

BG - Thanks for posting that.

 

That TF article really gets to the core of what the Tories think. The right usually has an US vs THEM attitude, and in the case of the Tories they really do believe that they are different and better than the rabble that live in the North, attend football matches, protest social/economic injustice etc. They have limited compassion and understanding. In their minds those kids that smashed windows and stole in London shoudl be in prison for 20 years, but Cameron smashes windows and spits on people as part of his bullingdon dining club at Oxford... well that's just youthful indescretion. Similar to Clegg (I realise he only Tory-lite as opposed to proper Tory) and his youthful indescretion as an arsonist.

That said I don't think it was a conspiracy in that much was said in hushed tones or any smoking gun like that. Thatcher and her cronies believed the football supporters that died that day were scum and that eveyone had to do their bit in protecting the police. No elaborate communication was necessary, everyone knew their roles without having to meet and discuss it.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Hopefully the release of the documents will get us to a position where all parties accept their part in what happened and can work towards ensuring nothing like this ever happens again. Without singling out Liverpool as the only ones to do it, Athens proved that some fans haven't learned the lesson. Policing is better now, as are stadia, but there are still steps everyone can take to make things even safer.

 

No more blame, no more cover ups and no more excuses.

[Guest TheSummerOf69]

From BBC News:

 

 

Call for Prime Minister to apologise over Hillsborough

 

The prime minister has been called on to apologise for failures surrounding the Hillsborough disaster.

 

MP Steve Rotheram, who opened a Commons debate on the release of papers relating to the tragedy, said there had been a campaign to blame fans.

 

Home Secretary Theresa May said the government supported the release of all documents, including Cabinet papers.

 

Ninety-six Liverpool fans died in the disaster at Sheffield Wednesday's Hillsborough stadium in April 1989.

The debate was sparked by 140,000 people signing an e-petition.

 

 

Mr Rotheram, whose Walton constituency includes Anfield, said David Cameron had apologised to the victims of Bloody Sunday and called on him to do the same for those affected by Hillsborough.

 

"I call on the prime minister to make a statement in this house and apologise for the mistakes that were made and the mishandling of this whole tragedy on behalf of a previous government," he said.

 

The Labour MP attacked the "smears" and "establishment cover-up" which led to fans initially being blamed for the disaster.

 

"Instead of those at fault taking responsibility for their actions, a co-ordinated campaign began to shift the blame and look for scapegoats," he said.

 

"It is claimed that truth is the first casualty of war, but the same can be said of Hillsborough.

 

"Misdirection, obfuscation and damned lies were all used as smokescreens to deflect attention away from the guilty.

 

"Institutional complacency and gross negligence, coupled with an establishment cover-up, have added to the sense that this was an orchestrated campaign to shift blame from those really responsible on to the shoulders of Liverpool fans."

 

 

Mr Rotheram attacked claims that Liverpool fans had turned up late, without tickets and were drinking heavily.

A "senior police officer and a Conservative MP" leaked stories to the press about the disaster, he said.

 

He criticised the Sun newspaper over its "The Truth" headline and its story about drunken and criminal behaviour by Liverpool fans.

 

The cause of the tragedy was clear from Lord Justice Taylor's report, he said, "which concluded that the police fundamentally lost control of the situation and did not demonstrate the leadership expected of senior officers".

 

Mr Rotheram said the "misinformation" began almost as soon as the match, a FA Cup semi-final tie between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest, was abandoned.

 

The match commander told the FA that Liverpool fans had rushed a gate, creating the crush. "This disgraceful lie set the tone for all that came later," he said.

 

Mr Rotheram read out the names of the 96 who had died, as campaigners looked on from the public gallery.

 

 

Home Secretary Theresa May apologised for any anxiety caused by the decision to oppose a Freedom of Information request from the BBC but it was right that the families should receive the information first as they needed to be treated with "dignity and respect".

 

Mrs May said: "I will do everything in my power to ensure the families and the public get the truth.

"No government papers will be withheld from the panel, no attempts to suppress publication will be made, no stone left unturned."

 

The independent Hillsborough panel already has some cabinet papers, she said.

 

But she said there may be some "minor redactions", including the names of some junior civil servants and the details of the victims' medical files, which would be a matter for the panel.

 

 

Mr Burnham, speaking for the opposition, said the disaster and the events following it, were "one of the biggest injustices of the 20th Century".

 

He said moves to blame the victims for the tragedy were "unprecedented". He added: "It was an unbelievable act of brutality against the 96 fans."

 

Mr Burnham also read from police papers which quoted an officer who watched as fans used advertising hoardings to ferry the injured.

 

A senior officer had written that the pages should be amended because "these are his own ­feelings" and said the comments showed "they were organised and we were not".

 

Mr Burnham said he had "private disappointments" that more had not been done to reveal the truth under the previous Labour government.

 

He said the House of Commons coming together behind the families of the 96 who had died was a "huge moment".

 

 

Other MPs were then called to speak in the debate.

 

Among them were, Esther McVey, Conservative MP for Wirral West, who said: "It is a time for words to come to an end, it is a time for action. It is time to release all those documents in its entirety."

 

Labour MP for Garston and Halewood Maria Eagle called for News International to disclose who had briefed The Sun on its story.

 

Culture Secretary Jeremy Hunt apologised for past comments relating to the disaster. He said he had "huge regrets" for his "sloppily worded" remarks.

 

Sheffield South East MP Clive Betts, leader of Sheffield City Council at the time, was at the game. The Labour MP said he remembered returning the following day and crying.

 

"What else could you do? This was in our city, in my football ground, 96 people had died before our eyes. What else could you do?"

[Guest north shields lad]

They had one of the geordie MPs speak tonite. He said he was in thre Leppings lane end to watch newecastle, and there was a crush, he was scared and is still trautimised. As he said, he only lost his shoes that day, but there for the grace of god.

The MP for Blaydon spoke as well. He said people need to remember that Thatcher had a lot to thank her police force for, because of the miners strikes. At the same time she hated Liverpool, because they had turned "Socialist militant". Therfore she was never going to let her police take the blame.

[magorific]

They had one of the geordie MPs speak tonite. He said he was in thre Leppings lane end to watch newecastle, and there was a crush, he was scared and is still trautimised. As he said, he only lost his shoes that day, but there for the grace of god.

The MP for Blaydon spoke as well. He said people need to remember that Thatcher had a lot to thank her police force for, because of the miners strikes. At the same time she hated Liverpool, because they had turned "Socialist militant". Therfore she was never going to let her police take the blame.

 

Boxing Day 86 at Hillsborough, I assume. A near miss for us - as was Spurs away in the FA Cup in 87.

[Guest north shields lad]

yes he did say boxing day, i didnt catch the year

[Guest TheSummerOf69]

From The Guardian:

 

  The Hillsborough disaster's legacy of lies

 

    Had responsibility for the football tragedy been accepted early on,

    there would be no need for a parliamentary debate, writes David Conn.

 

The families of the 96, mostly young, people who died on the terraces of Hillsborough have waited 22 years, not only for the authorities culpable to acknowledge their responsibility. It has also taken this long for the families' cause to be understood by the public, who were largely taken in by false stories of drunken and ticketless fans, on to whom the South Yorkshire police sought to deflect blame from their own negligence.

 

Now, finally, people are coming to accept Hillsborough as a major miscarriage of justice, after the protest calls at the 20th anniversary two years ago and the disclosure of all public documents to an independent panel chaired by James Jones, the bishop of Liverpool. That process, which could deliver something close to the full story, and acceptances of official culpability, was initiated by two Merseyside Labour MPs, Andy Burnham and Maria Eagle, and continued by the coalition government.

 

Steve Rotheram, Labour MP for Liverpool Walton, captured public empathy with the bereaved families by the simple act of reading the victims' names out in parliament: with 96 dead, it takes a heartbreakingly long time.

 

Even the Conservative prime minister recognises there will be a reckoning, expected in May or June when the panel reports, which will not reflect well on the South Yorkshire police of the time or, possibly, on Margaret Thatcher's government. The public has slowly sloughed off the false stories of supporter misbehaviour, spread by the police following the disaster and notoriously carried by the Sun under its infamous headline four days later, "The truth". The families are finally recognised not as ruffian scousers but exemplary mothers, fathers and relatives who have fought loyally for justice and the good names of their loved ones.

 

There are many thousands of official documents and many levels to the disaster, but key facts are known already. The FA Cup semi-final on 15 April 1989 between Nottingham Forest and Liverpool was held at the Hillsborough football ground, whose safety certificate was out of date – something the Football Association did not bother to check before hosting the match there. The 24,000 Liverpool fans had to be funnelled through just 23 turnstiles in the north and west sides of the ground, including the nasty Leppings Lane terrace.

 

The police did not manage to get supporters through before kick-off and a crush developed outside. Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield, commanding his first football match, ordered an exit gate to be opened, so that hundreds of fans could enter together. That would have been sensible, except the supporters were not directed away from the Leppings Lane central "pens", which were full by then while the sides still had room.

 

That was the "blunder" identified by Lord Justice Taylor, in his official report, as the "immediate cause of the disaster". Sheffield Wednesday had serious deficiencies in the safety of its ground, and Sheffield city council failed in its certifying responsibilities. Those three bodies paid damages to the families and victims who sued for negligence.

 

Had responsibility been accepted at the inquest that followed, there would be no campaign for justice, disclosure process and debates – like today's in parliament – 22 years later. However, lies were told from the beginning. Duckenfield told the FA's chief executive, Graham Kelly, on the scene, that fans had forced the exit gate, when in fact Duckenfield had ordered it to be opened.

 

Then the police relentlessly pushed the case, to the media, to Taylor and the inquest, that the fans had been drunk and so had caused the disaster – exactly how, they never quite specified. Taylor explicitly criticised that police case, saying it was "a matter of regret" that "such an unrealistic approach" had been taken – and he did not know what emerged later, that senior South Yorkshire police officers systematically had junior officers' statements changed, to present that case to Taylor.

 

The families have always felt the police were supported by Thatcher and her government after the briefings given the following day. That is why so much attention is focused on cabinet papers as the disclosure process continues.

 

When they are finally published in the panel's report, those papers may disappoint. But what's already certain is that a terrible 22 years on for the bereaved families, the injured and survivors, opinion about Hillsborough has finally turned – every day fewer believe the police lies. The real truth about what happened is coming to be accepted.

 

 

[Guest gggg]

Barton was in the gallery. Fair play.

[Big Geordie]

Because of the Miners' Strike of 84/85, Thatcher had built her own private army and will have protected them at the expense of the truth. She is one evil rotten cunt of a woman.

[FrenchWilliam]

Barton was in the gallery. Fair play.

 

Why?

[Dave]

Barton was in the gallery. Fair play.

 

Why?

 

Because it's something he's heavily supported?

[summerof69]

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/19350

 

 

 

Petition to force the Sun newspaper to release its Hillsborough "The Truth" sources and documents

 

Responsible department: Department for Culture, Media and Sport

 

Full disclosure by the Sun Newspaper to the Hillsborough independant panel of all it's records, including sources and documents relating to the 'The Truth' story published on 19/04/1989

 

 

 

 

Would there need to be a certain amount of signatures that would be needed to force the sun to do this ? Or wold this just be to pile pressure on NI ?

[Dave]

I hope all the information comes out so everyone can just move on. I'm sure I'd be campaigning etc if it was one of my loved ones who died but it wasn't. It's been clear for a long time that no one person or even organisation was at fault for the deaths, so I'm not quite sure what 'justice' can be done anyway. Get the information out there, call it a day.

 

Oh and The Sun weren't one of those organisations, ridiculously distasteful as some of their stories at the time were.

[JH]

I hope all the information comes out so everyone can just move on. I'm sure I'd be campaigning etc if it was one of my loved ones who died but it wasn't. It's been clear for a long time that no one person or even organisation was at fault for the deaths, so I'm not quite sure what 'justice' can be done anyway. Get the information out there, call it a day.

 

Oh and The Sun weren't one of those organisations, ridiculously distasteful as some of their stories at the time were.

 

[Guest Howaythetoon]

For all those saying Liverpool fans were at fault in one way or another or in part no one deserves to die for being drunk or for sneaking into a match without a ticket, no-one. The fact that 96 people died at one of the world's premier sporting events, the FA Cup Semi-Final, is an absolute fucking disgrace in itself never mind any following coverups or piss poor handling of all the other issues. 96 people lost their lives, many children, at a football match, through no fault of their own or that of the stadium itself. They lost their lives because the event was poorly managed from top to bottom. Basically people were allowed to die. I don't know how any genuine football supporter can aportion blame on the fans for the death of 96 people, be it the 96 themselves or the thousands that were lucky that day. I say luck, fucking hell, what life sentance they've had to endure since that day. Honestly its shocking and if it happened today people would be jailed and sacked from the government down to reporters. Back then though football fans were scum and got what they deserved in the eyes of the authorities and government. Even if say 1000 extra fans managed to get through into the stand without a ticket, people did not deserve to die. Fuck me, I have to force my way into pubs all the time due to how packed they are, should the result be death because I ventured forth? I don't like Liverpoool as a club nor their fans these days but I love how they refuse to buy the sun and stick together for a truly worthy cause. If it was Newcastle at the centre of such a tragedy which it could have easily been remember, we'd do the same I'd like to think. Justice for the 96 indeed, and their familes and football itself.