Alan Shearer contract latest: long gone

[indi]

I think it's pretty poor form to claim you're being attacked btw. I've seen nothing that's beyond simple disagreement.

 

Apologies, if that's how it came across, I wasn't meaning people were attacking me personally, rather that people are attacking my opinion, yet not backing up their own. No-one's really made an extensive positive case for Shearer as manager, yet many people have taken the time to disagree with my view that he might not be.

 

It's basically blind faith. I've no problem admitting that.

 

Fine, at least you're honest, if everyone else was then there'd be little point in me arguing this with them.

[GM]

I really don't imagine there are many better candidates out there to be manager than Shearer.

 

If we could get a proven top class manager to take over then that'd be the way to go, but how likely is that when we're no longer a Premiership club? Not very would be my guess, particularly with the clowns we'd have trying to make the appointment.

 

Hoping Ashley will agree to Shearer's vision for the club and support him in what he wants to do.

 

If not, we won't be a Premiership club again for a long time.

 

Of course there are better candidates out there than an unproven manager with a track record consisting of eight games, most of which were defeats!! If people can forget for a moment that his name is Alan Shearer, then you'll see just how ridiculous that statement is. This is what I mean by the insular thing, everyone's reduced the number of potential managers down to a list consisting of one name. Already, before we've even begun looking!! There's more out there than Alan Shearer, there's more places to look than a list of previous players, than the Premiership, than England, than Europe. Look at where the two best managers in the league came from: Scotland, not even the Old Firm, Aberdeen; and Japan, Japan for fuck's sake, do people seriously not think we could attract someone from the fucking J-League!?!

 

There's loads of potential candidates out there, it's whether or not we actually go and look for them or just go with the easy option and appoint Shearer uncontested. If he is the best that we can get then fine, but let's not assume that without even looking at the alternatives first.

 

Do you honestly believe we have an owner and chairman capable of going out and finding the next management sensation in fucking Japan like?

 

They'd probably come back with some ageing Japanese racist called Jo Kin Ira.

 

What exactly gives you hope that Ashley and Llambias will produce a moment of brilliance and find the right man for the job given their record of absolute and total failure in running the club to this point? Do you think they're due or something?

 

In Shearer we have a man who was one of the best players of his generation, a man who will command respect and do everything in his power to make this club great. He's always come over as someone who really understands the game, and while that's no gaurantee that he'll make a good manager it does make him a pretty decent managerial prospect, especially for a Championship football team.

 

So they shouldn't even look? Let's give up before we've even started, shall we?

 

Like I said, if he turns out to be the best we can get then fine, but let's not start from that position.

 

So what are you actually proposing exactly? Have you actually got someone else in mind for the post? Would they be able to unite the fans in the way Shearer can? Would they be able to give the job a really serious go and bring stability to the club? If so, who is it you have in mind?

 

Or do you have an alternative position we should be starting from? If so, please spell it out for us.

 

I'm proposing that we (the club) put some actual thought and effort into going out and looking at the options available to us. You know, like what the successful clubs do.

 

Wins, points, goals, clean-sheets, good football and ultimately promotion to the Premiership is what will unite the fans. You think we'll be united having spent a few seasons in the Championship, even if Shearer's our manager? I don't. Success is what unites a football club and I think we should be going out and finding the person most likely to get us that, whoever that is. Appointing a manger simply to unite the fans is pointless if he doesn't deliver the goods. We've had it all arse-about-tit for ages when it comes to appointing managers and it's about time it stopped. I'm sick of the club's continual obsession with appeasing the fans, that's what's lead us to where we are now.

 

I have no suggestion as to who we should appoint, I don't know who's available and I've no experience of running a football club. That doesn't mean that I can't see that the only way to address the first point is to go and find out and that it might be a good idea for those doing the second to get some advice and apply a bit of thought as to who they get to be the manager before they make the decision.

 

The position we should be starting from is: We have a vacancy for manager, who is the best man for the job and can we get him? If not, then who is the next best and so-on.

 

So, in summary, your alternative starting point is that basically we need to get a good manager in, plan for the long term but that you haven't got a fucking clue who we should appoint?

 

As for "appeasing the fans" - are you sure about that...do the names "Souness" and "Allardyce" and "Roeder" mean nothing to you?

 

If it was my job to make that decision then I'd make damn sure that I went out and got a clue!!

 

You realise that you're arguing in favour of them remaining clueless, not even trying to get a clue? You want them to remain ignorant and yet you've chosen to attack me for my ignorance in an attempt to back up your argument! Come on man, think about what you're saying and where you're coming from here. If you think Shearer is the best man for the job then justify that opinion with evidence and argument to prove it. The fact that the people who are baking Shearer have only made a token attempt to make his case and have instead put all their energy into attacking those that dare to hold a dissenting view speaks volumes.

 

All those appointments were made for very limited and simplistic reasons: Souness = discipline, Roeder = cheap, Allardyce = "modern" approach. In no case did those in charge give enough thought as to who was the best man for the job and we ended up in the shit because of it. All I'm asking for is some real consideration to be given to the appointment, it's amazing that people are arguing against that, to be honest. If we just appoint Shearer with no further thought, then we continue down the path that has lead us to where we are now. Yeah, we might fluke it and have another Robson on our hands, but we also might not and we won't have learned anything for the next time.

 

I wasn't arguing any such thing indi. I was merely pointing out that Shearer could be a good choice for us right now. As per my previous post above.

 

So given the fact that I'm simply arguing that some serious thought should be given to who our next manager is, why are you disagreeing with me then?

 

I'm disagreeing with you because I think at the moment Shearer is the best fit for where we are now and where we hope to be going.

[Robster]

Indi, I wish I had your faith that Ashley and Llambias have the ability to sit down think about what qualities are required in our next manager and go out there and do what ever is required to get him.

 

I think they will go for either the easiest or the cheapest option purely and simply because they havent got the first clue what they are doing.

[dcmk]

I think it's pretty poor form to claim you're being attacked btw. I've seen nothing that's beyond simple disagreement.

 

Apologies, if that's how it came across, I wasn't meaning people were attacking me personally, rather that people are attacking my opinion, yet not backing up their own. No-one's really made an extensive positive case for Shearer as manager, yet many people have taken the time to disagree with my view that he might not be.

 

How about a huge majority of our supporters support him want him to continue.  Will give him time to turn this team around and rebuild under him.  Been a winner all his carear, great leadership skills.  Players respect him.  Hasn't been long out of the game, idolized by alot of the younger players,  knows what the fans expect.  Been coached by some of the best managers in the Premier League era.

 

Now i think i have seen you suggest Steve Coppell.. wouldn't be an inspired choice, ok he has led a promotion campaign but not alot more. 

[indi]

He's the best man in our current situation. We're relegated, we have no time for a new guy to come in and assess the squad. We need someone who knows who's good and who's bad, and which areas need fixing and which areas are fine.

 

If we could get Rijkaard then go for it. I'd obviously want the club to sound out some other managers if Shearer refuses, but because of the situation that we're in and based on what Shearer's actually shown, I think Shearer's the best man for the job.

 

Edit: I'd obviously like the board to actually think about other candidates too, and not just think 'If Shearer says no then we go back to Kinnear'.

 

Too much sentiment, not enough ruthlessness. We should be sounding out people now, not waiting for Shearer to decide and then doing it, if we can get someone better then we should do so. Strange that no-one was bothered about sentiment when it was Kinnear who was in the hot-seat, the bloke was in hospital after a heart attack and everyone was hoping that it was going to mean us getting someone else in. Just because Shearer's probably better than Kinnear, doesn't mean that there's not someone better than him out there who'd come, we have and opportunity to find out, we should take it.

[dcmk]

Indi your argument has really changed a fair bit from:

 

I'm sorry, but I've not seen anything from Shearer to suggest that he's going to be a good manager for us

[GM]

He's the best man in our current situation. We're relegated, we have no time for a new guy to come in and assess the squad. We need someone who knows who's good and who's bad, and which areas need fixing and which areas are fine.

 

If we could get Rijkaard then go for it. I'd obviously want the club to sound out some other managers if Shearer refuses, but because of the situation that we're in and based on what Shearer's actually shown, I think Shearer's the best man for the job.

 

Edit: I'd obviously like the board to actually think about other candidates too, and not just think 'If Shearer says no then we go back to Kinnear'.

 

Too much sentiment, not enough ruthlessness. We should be sounding out people now, not waiting for Shearer to decide and then doing it, if we can get someone better then we should do so. Strange that no-one was bothered about sentiment when it was Kinnear who was in the hot-seat, the bloke was in hospital after a heart attack and everyone was hoping that it was going to mean us getting someone else in. Just because Shearer's probably better than Kinnear, doesn't mean that there's not someone better than him out there who'd come, we have and opportunity to find out, we should take it.

 

You know, the more I think about it the more I realise that you're right inid...it may be sentimentality driving my support for Shearer as manager, but then again it's sentimentality that has driven my love for Newcastle United all along. I see nothing wrong with being sentimental about things, certainly when it comes to deciding who you're going to appoint as the icon of leadership for the club to steer it through some inevitably difficult times.

 

[Taylor Swift]

How long do you suggest we go look for a better manager then? I think this summer is our most important summer since '03, so we can't afford to waste time. If the board spends a month looking for a manager who we all know is better than Shearer but don't get him, that's a month wasted. And if they end up with someone similar to Shearer's quality, then that's a month wasted plus he'd have no idea of the quality of the players in our squad. He might actually keep players based on their reputations, which would just about guarantee an extra season in the championship for us. I argue for Shearer because it's important that we start plans for next season immediately. There won't be an international tournament this summer so transfer activity will and should begin right now. There's no time to waste if we want to get back up asap. He knows the weaknesses of our team and he's shown enough, for me at least, for me to believe that he can be a quality manager.

 

If it wasn't any other summer, if we had actually survived or finished in mid-table, then I would argue against keeping Shearer. But we can't waste time and we can't afford time for the new manager to get to know the squad and get rid of the shite unless we know for sure that he's better than Shearer.

[Taylor Swift]

We've sort of reached a Nash-equilibrium with Shearer as manager.

 

It's the optimal move just because he's our manager already. Damn, never thought I'd actually get to use that concept ever again.

[Dave]

Football is all about sentimentality tbh.

[indi]

Indi, I posted this in another thread.

 

The other argument that can be made for Shearer is based on stability. We need it. He's actually seen the squad and the players, so he won't need time in preseason to judge the players again. And this summer, it's even more important that whoever our manager is judges right, because we can't afford to keep shit players. So because Shearer's actually seen our players in training everyday, I'd rather he stayed because of that (on top of the other reasons that I've mentioned).

 

Of course there's still a lot of doubt about Shearer. He's no Fergie or Wenger (yet...), he hasn't shown real tactical nous in changing the way we actually play (i.e. increasing width, or more passing and movement in general etc.), but I think it's way too early to judge him on a set of players who were known to be very shit and the fact that he had 8 games which is nothing.

 

Give him two years. Let him clear out the squad, let him work the transfer market and let's see how next year's team does. If we clear out everyone and start again, then I wouldn't mind it if we only challenged for the playoffs but had a squad full of youngsters with potential.

 

and

 

Shearer did what he could to put the best players on the pitch. He dropped Owen for a few games and actually got Viduka playing again. That is a credit to his management.

 

The only main disappointment I have is with how he handled Jonas: This was a guy who, if properly motivated, runs his legs off (Old Trafford, first match). But ever since Shearer's got here, his play has looked uninspired, and he just looks tired. Maybe he is tired, but I was expecting more from him and Shearer's gotta be partially responsible for the shit end to Jonas' season.

 

Other than that, Shearer's been much better than I thought he'd be. He's not afraid to try different formations, even if some of them had bad results, but the attempt counts a lot in my opinion. He also gave up on them as soon as he found out that they didn't work, which again counts a lot. Shearer's obviously not the finished product and I imagine that if he does stay for the long term, he'll make some permanent changes to the backroom staff which will have a bigger effect on the way the team plays. I think he's shown that he can improve, and on that basis, I believe he'll get better as time passes. That, to me, makes me comfortable with the thought of him being our long-term manager.

 

That's my argument for keeping him.

 

I think that it's pretty safe to say that basically none of our squad are good enough, certainly there's no-one we couldn't afford to lose; after all, we have just been relegated. I don't think that it requires someone to have been intimately involved with them to see that.

 

Other than that, there's little I disagree with in what you've said, other than the conclusion that Shearer is definitely the man for the job. I agree that he seems willing to experiment and change things when it's not working, I'd just prefer that he did his experimenting, learned his trade and made all the mistakes that go along with that at someone else's club. I have no problem with Shearer as manager per se, I do have a problem with us appointing an unproven manager at such an important time for the club, Alan Shearer or not.

[indi]

Indi your argument has really changed a fair bit from:

 

I'm sorry, but I've not seen anything from Shearer to suggest that he's going to be a good manager for us

 

No it hasn't.

[Robster]

I think we have no other option than to appoint someone who is a bit of a gamble now that we are a Championship team. We've just lost the best bargaining tool we had for attracting a proven top level manager

[indi]

I think it's pretty poor form to claim you're being attacked btw. I've seen nothing that's beyond simple disagreement.

 

Apologies, if that's how it came across, I wasn't meaning people were attacking me personally, rather that people are attacking my opinion, yet not backing up their own. No-one's really made an extensive positive case for Shearer as manager, yet many people have taken the time to disagree with my view that he might not be.

 

How about a huge majority of our supporters support him want him to continue.  Will give him time to turn this team around and rebuild under him.  Been a winner all his carear, great leadership skills.  Players respect him.  Hasn't been long out of the game, idolized by alot of the younger players,  knows what the fans expect.  Been coached by some of the best managers in the Premier League era.

 

Now i think i have seen you suggest Steve Coppell.. wouldn't be an inspired choice, ok he has led a promotion campaign but not alot more. 

 

Are you sure that there's no-one else out there that could offer that, the equivalent, or more? Are you so sure that you don't even want to have a look and see?

 

It was Dave that mentioned Coppell, I said I thought he was a decent manager, but that the pressure would get to him at SJP.

[indi]

He's the best man in our current situation. We're relegated, we have no time for a new guy to come in and assess the squad. We need someone who knows who's good and who's bad, and which areas need fixing and which areas are fine.

 

If we could get Rijkaard then go for it. I'd obviously want the club to sound out some other managers if Shearer refuses, but because of the situation that we're in and based on what Shearer's actually shown, I think Shearer's the best man for the job.

 

Edit: I'd obviously like the board to actually think about other candidates too, and not just think 'If Shearer says no then we go back to Kinnear'.

 

Too much sentiment, not enough ruthlessness. We should be sounding out people now, not waiting for Shearer to decide and then doing it, if we can get someone better then we should do so. Strange that no-one was bothered about sentiment when it was Kinnear who was in the hot-seat, the bloke was in hospital after a heart attack and everyone was hoping that it was going to mean us getting someone else in. Just because Shearer's probably better than Kinnear, doesn't mean that there's not someone better than him out there who'd come, we have and opportunity to find out, we should take it.

 

You know, the more I think about it the more I realise that you're right inid...it may be sentimentality driving my support for Shearer as manager, but then again it's sentimentality that has driven my love for Newcastle United all along. I see nothing wrong with being sentimental about things, certainly when it comes to deciding who you're going to appoint as the icon of leadership for the club to steer it through some inevitably difficult times.

 

 

You're a fan, you're allowed to be sentimental - although I do think we as Newcastle fans do over-do it sometimes . When it comes to actually running the club it takes more than that though. Do you think Man U will be sentimental when they have to replace Fergie? How much chance do you think Tony Adams has of taking over from Wenger at Arsenal?

[Dave]

When are Man Utd or Arsenal going to be relegated?

 

No comparison whatsoever there man.

[dcmk]

Indi your argument has really changed a fair bit from:

 

I'm sorry, but I've not seen anything from Shearer to suggest that he's going to be a good manager for us

 

No it hasn't.

 

 

Ye totally has, you got that opinion after 8 games and in your own words he learns from his mistakes and can spot things that aren't working.. so this suggests he's not 'going to be a good manager for us' does it?

 

Now you have seemed to put that on the back burner and your point now is there are other managers out there.  Ok true, like who?  Fans would be on their back because majority would want Shearer to stay on.  Is that good for the club .. no!  We need stability, Shearer has the backing of most of us we will give him time.

 

I think bringing him in for a relegation dogfight was a more critical time for the club tbh.  We are in the worst case scenario, let us rebuild under the guy.  Let him have his own team.

[Mowen]

keep.

[GM]

He's the best man in our current situation. We're relegated, we have no time for a new guy to come in and assess the squad. We need someone who knows who's good and who's bad, and which areas need fixing and which areas are fine.

 

If we could get Rijkaard then go for it. I'd obviously want the club to sound out some other managers if Shearer refuses, but because of the situation that we're in and based on what Shearer's actually shown, I think Shearer's the best man for the job.

 

Edit: I'd obviously like the board to actually think about other candidates too, and not just think 'If Shearer says no then we go back to Kinnear'.

 

Too much sentiment, not enough ruthlessness. We should be sounding out people now, not waiting for Shearer to decide and then doing it, if we can get someone better then we should do so. Strange that no-one was bothered about sentiment when it was Kinnear who was in the hot-seat, the bloke was in hospital after a heart attack and everyone was hoping that it was going to mean us getting someone else in. Just because Shearer's probably better than Kinnear, doesn't mean that there's not someone better than him out there who'd come, we have and opportunity to find out, we should take it.

 

You know, the more I think about it the more I realise that you're right inid...it may be sentimentality driving my support for Shearer as manager, but then again it's sentimentality that has driven my love for Newcastle United all along. I see nothing wrong with being sentimental about things, certainly when it comes to deciding who you're going to appoint as the icon of leadership for the club to steer it through some inevitably difficult times.

 

 

You're a fan, you're allowed to be sentimental - although I do think we as Newcastle fans do over-do it sometimes . When it comes to actually running the club it takes more than that though. Do you think Man U will be sentimental when they have to replace Fergie? How much chance do you think Tony Adams has of taking over from Wenger at Arsenal?

 

Holding up Man Utd as the paradigm is ridiculous mate - their size and scale puts them on a different planet. It's like comparing WALMART to the Happy Shopper chain.

 

They'll get Jose Mourinho in when Fergie goes, and even then you can be sure Taggart will be hovering around in a Busby stylee for a good few years post-retirement.

 

All I'm saying is that Shearer makes sense given that we've had a dozen different managers in the past 10 year which has been a major component factor in causing instability in the team, in the club and in the fanbase. You want to rebuild anything that's as dilapidated as this club is right now, you need foundations, and not just any old foundations, but foundations that the bricks and mortar of this club (i.e. the fans) can relate to.

[Guest firetotheworks]

wheres this Duff interview?

[dcmk]

I think it's pretty poor form to claim you're being attacked btw. I've seen nothing that's beyond simple disagreement.

 

Apologies, if that's how it came across, I wasn't meaning people were attacking me personally, rather that people are attacking my opinion, yet not backing up their own. No-one's really made an extensive positive case for Shearer as manager, yet many people have taken the time to disagree with my view that he might not be.

 

How about a huge majority of our supporters support him want him to continue.  Will give him time to turn this team around and rebuild under him.  Been a winner all his carear, great leadership skills.  Players respect him.  Hasn't been long out of the game, idolized by alot of the younger players,  knows what the fans expect.  Been coached by some of the best managers in the Premier League era.

 

Now i think i have seen you suggest Steve Coppell.. wouldn't be an inspired choice, ok he has led a promotion campaign but not alot more. 

 

Are you sure that there's no-one else out there that could offer that, the equivalent, or more? Are you so sure that you don't even want to have a look and see?

 

It was Dave that mentioned Coppell, I said I thought he was a decent manager, but that the pressure would get to him at SJP.

 

I don't want them to look for someone else, in all honestly.  Not because it's Shearer, its because we need stability and our record of chopping and changing managers is frankly appalling.

 

Fans want him here, he wants to be here, whole nation thinks he should be given the job.  If we appoint him, we would appear to be settled have our house somewhat in order.  Even if we spend a year in championship, we would have given the guy a chance -and move on.

 

I am pretty confident with him here, he's going to get rid of the right people replace them with what we need and mount a serious promotion campaign.  So i'm all for the guy.

[indi]

How long do you suggest we go look for a better manager then? I think this summer is our most important summer since '03, so we can't afford to waste time. If the board spends a month looking for a manager who we all know is better than Shearer but don't get him, that's a month wasted. And if they end up with someone similar to Shearer's quality, then that's a month wasted plus he'd have no idea of the quality of the players in our squad. He might actually keep players based on their reputations, which would just about guarantee an extra season in the championship for us. I argue for Shearer because it's important that we start plans for next season immediately. There won't be an international tournament this summer so transfer activity will and should begin right now. There's no time to waste if we want to get back up asap. He knows the weaknesses of our team and he's shown enough, for me at least, for me to believe that he can be a quality manager.

 

If it wasn't any other summer, if we had actually survived or finished in mid-table, then I would argue against keeping Shearer. But we can't waste time and we can't afford time for the new manager to get to know the squad and get rid of the shite unless we know for sure that he's better than Shearer.

 

If it was me then I'd have started looking for a decent manager the moment Keegan walked and I wouldn't have stopped doing so all season, regardless of who was managing the team on a temporary basis in the meantime. If, as seems likely, that hasn't happened, then I would still want them to take advantage of this opportunity to look into it. I think it's a decision of such importance to the future of the club that although it shouldn't be allowed to drag on for a long time requires some time devoted to it, it's by far the most important decision to be made this summer after all.

 

What happens if Shearer doesn't take the job? He might not you know. Surely it's better to have got going on some alternative options just in case, at the very least.

[Neil]

He's the best man in our current situation. We're relegated, we have no time for a new guy to come in and assess the squad. We need someone who knows who's good and who's bad, and which areas need fixing and which areas are fine.

 

If we could get Rijkaard then go for it. I'd obviously want the club to sound out some other managers if Shearer refuses, but because of the situation that we're in and based on what Shearer's actually shown, I think Shearer's the best man for the job.

 

Edit: I'd obviously like the board to actually think about other candidates too, and not just think 'If Shearer says no then we go back to Kinnear'.

 

Too much sentiment, not enough ruthlessness. We should be sounding out people now, not waiting for Shearer to decide and then doing it, if we can get someone better then we should do so. Strange that no-one was bothered about sentiment when it was Kinnear who was in the hot-seat, the bloke was in hospital after a heart attack and everyone was hoping that it was going to mean us getting someone else in. Just because Shearer's probably better than Kinnear, doesn't mean that there's not someone better than him out there who'd come, we have and opportunity to find out, we should take it.

 

You know, the more I think about it the more I realise that you're right inid...it may be sentimentality driving my support for Shearer as manager, but then again it's sentimentality that has driven my love for Newcastle United all along. I see nothing wrong with being sentimental about things, certainly when it comes to deciding who you're going to appoint as the icon of leadership for the club to steer it through some inevitably difficult times.

 

 

You're a fan, you're allowed to be sentimental - although I do think we as Newcastle fans do over-do it sometimes . When it comes to actually running the club it takes more than that though. Do you think Man U will be sentimental when they have to replace Fergie? How much chance do you think Tony Adams has of taking over from Wenger at Arsenal?

 

Holding up Man Utd as the paradigm is ridiculous mate - their size and scale puts them on a different planet. It's like comparing WALMART to the Happy Shopper chain.

 

They'll get Jose Mourinho in when Fergie goes, and even then you can be sure Taggart will be hovering around in a Busby stylee for a good few years post-retirement.

 

All I'm saying is that Shearer makes sense given that we've had a dozen different managers in the past 10 year which has been a major component factor in causing instability in the team, in the club and in the fanbase. You want to rebuild anything that's as dilapidated as this club is right now, you need foundations, and not just any old foundations, but foundations that the bricks and mortar of this club (i.e. the fans) can relate to.

 

Aye. Rebuilding entails not only using the correct tools, but correctly using the tools.

[indi]

When are Man Utd or Arsenal going to be relegated?

 

No comparison whatsoever there man.

 

What, you mean that when their present managers leave they're not going to have to appoint a new one? Of course there's a comparison. They'll have to make a decision about who's going to be their manager and you can bet your bottom dollar that a sentimental attachment with the club won't come very high on their list of requirements for the role.

[Taylor Swift]

Agreed, which is why I hope they press Shearer for an answer by the end of the week, latest. And then we move on from there.

 

To be honest, we should keep tabs on all up-and-coming managers around the world. We should always have an updated list on managers who we believe would be successful at the club. The club hasn't been proactive about seeking out managers in a long, long time and that's partly why we ended up with the likes of Souness and Roeder. I also think all our managers from now on should be forced to keep an updated list of players at each position that they like which is supplemented by continuous scouting, but obviously our chosen method is scout for what we need and then buy to cover our needs. That means we're always left in a desperate situation. But that discussion is for another time.