RIP sale thread.

[macca888]

NG

 

Yes, I remember that occasion too.

 

Begs to ask the question then.

 

Where did Alex Ferguson go from there and Where did Kevin Keegan go?

 

In any season, there is going to be a number of factors but noone can deny on here that 1995, Keegan blew the title because he was tactically niave, not because the team was inexperienced. Blackburn Rovers won the title when they were inexperienced. So did Leeds. There should have been no excuse for us in 1995, especially when you consider Kegans failure to close up shop in the last 15 minutes at Blackburn and Liverpool when we were winning.

[BottledDog]

HTL

 

Tripe is something they eat in Lancashire, isnt it? Not a bees dick from your Yorkshire roots mate.

 

Regarding your comment about me saying YOU SUPPORTERS, you seem to have replied out of context. I was referring to the money the fans pay in ticket sales, mechandise etc, which quite clearly, I am unable to do due to my location.

 

I would have thought even you would have been intelligent enough to work that one out....................then again, Maybe not

 

I think it is pretty obvious from many on here that the divine god KK is no longer thought that way by the masses. Or, are you happy that he is trying to take 10 million for a few months work out of our financially crippled club which quite probably is the paramount reason any takeover cannot be completed?

 

Your reply will be noted with interest

 

I dont think anyone thinks he is a divine god, only the media use it.

 

I think he is a more trust worthy man then the halls, Shepherd and some fucking wankers like Ashley, Llambias and Wise.

 

All the above have been proven to be cunts, yet people like you still have a pop at KK

 

Hitler, Stalin, and Pol bleeding Pot were right radgie twunts too. Doesn't make Keegan any less open to criticism.

[NG32]

NG

 

Yes, I remember that occasion too.

 

Begs to ask the question then.

 

Where did Alex Ferguson go from there and Where did Kevin Keegan go?

 

In any season, there is going to be a number of factors but noone can deny on here that 1995, Keegan blew the title because he was tactically niave, not because the team was inexperienced. Blackburn Rovers won the title when they were inexperienced. So did Leeds. There should have been no excuse for us in 1995, especially when you consider Kegans failure to close up shop in the last 15 minutes at Blackburn and Liverpool when we were winning.

 

Ferguson was backed at Man UTD where KK had lost faith in the Halls and their cronies.

 

The failure to winning the league that season for NUFC was a stepping stone/learning curve of what is needed to winning the league.

 

 

[TooonDoom]

Toondoom

 

Quite a good scenario and quite possible too. Speaks for itself when you also consider his soccer circus is leaking money like a sieve. Seems quite convenient for him to make a claim, no matter how undeserved it is.

 

What some people tend to call peoples opinions on this matter "laughable", possibly need to get rid of the blinkers.

 

I actually hope Ashley wins his counter claim againast Keegan and get a couple of million for the club.

 

Making money would be a bonus!

 

The thing that gets me is that it is obvious certain decisions are made for personal reasons and they do not get slated.

 

Ashley makes a decision to have a structure in place with Wise and all.  He makes that because he thinks that is the best for Newcastle.  We can all agree it was the wrong decision but it is made thinking about the club.

 

Keegan makes a decision to sue the club for personal gain to the determent of Newcastle.  That's fine in some people opinion  

[macca888]

NG

 

It is probably difficult to compare the two clubs at the time. Financially, Manchester United were and probably still are the richest club in the world whilst we were possibly punching above our weight financially at the time. Lets be honest here, it was never going to last for a variety of different reasons.

 

However, what cannot be denied is that we were in a superb position to win the league and we blew it. I also remember Keegan boosting the squad with the signings of Batty and Asprilla in the march. Unfortunatley, what we probably needed more was a couple of quality central defenders. Keegan should have known this.

 

I suppose we could argue till the cows come home but the fact is, we lost a 12 point lead we shouldnt have and ultimately, that has to be down to the manager who selects the team and issues the tactics. Only one person to blame, mmate, That is Keegan.

 

Anyway, it is late here. Good discussion, NG, but the missus is giving me the call so I better get off and do my duty.............LOL

[Teasy]

NG

 

I suppose we could argue till the cows come home but the fact is, we lost a 12 point lead we shouldnt have and ultimately, that has to be down to the manager who selects the team and issues the tactics. Only one person to blame, mmate, That is Keegan.

 

As far as I remember we were only 12 points ahead for a few hours before Manure played their next match.  The lead was 9 points and Manure still had a game in hand which effectively made it only a 6 point lead.  Still shouldn't have lost it like.

[macca888]

Teasy

 

Same difference, mate Games still had to be won. They won theirs, we lost ours.

[Guest gggg]

From the bottom of the second division to 12 points clear in the top flight. Amazing achievement.

 

If Hughton does that we'll all be calling him shit and stuff 10 years on, obviously.

[macca888]

GG

 

Dont be silly.............grow up

[NG32]

NG

 

It is probably difficult to compare the two clubs at the time. Financially, Manchester United were and probably still are the richest club in the world whilst we were possibly punching above our weight financially at the time. Lets be honest here, it was never going to last for a variety of different reasons.

 

However, what cannot be denied is that we were in a superb position to win the league and we blew it. I also remember Keegan boosting the squad with the signings of Batty and Asprilla in the march. Unfortunatley, what we probably needed more was a couple of quality central defenders. Keegan should have known this.

 

I suppose we could argue till the cows come home but the fact is, we lost a 12 point lead we shouldnt have and ultimately, that has to be down to the manager who selects the team and issues the tactics. Only one person to blame, mmate, That is Keegan.

 

Anyway, it is late here. Good discussion, NG, but the missus is giving me the call so I better get off and do my duty.............LOL

 

He added David Batty to protect the back four and added Asprilla to bring more goals in.

 

 

[Teasy]

Teasy

 

Same difference, mate Games still had to be won. They won theirs, we lost ours.

 

I just hate it when the fabled 12 point lead is mentioned, its a falacy IMO and the media and everyone else have used it as a stick to beat us with for years.  There was nothing we could do to stop Manure winning their delayed game that day or their game in hand.  All we could do is keep the actual 6 point lead we had and of course we didn't which does fall on Keegans shoulders.  Of course getting that lead in the first place also falls on his shoulders.

[Tooj]

Teasy

 

Same difference, mate Games still had to be won. They won theirs, we lost ours.

 

Yeah still shouldn't have lost the 6 point lead.  I just hate it when the fabled 12 point lead is mentioned, its a falacy IMO and the media and everyone else have used it as a stick to beat us with for years.  There was nothing we could do to stop Manure winning their delayed game that day or their game in hand.  All we could do is keep the actual 6 point lead we had and of course we didn't which does drop on Keegans shoulders.

 

It does inded. But also players like Les Ferdinand and Rob Lee who got us there in the first place need to take some responsibility as well. Obviously not as much as Keegan, but their arses basically fell out.

[Mowen]

NG

 

I can quite clearly remember Ashley and Mort coming out with statements after the appointment saying "we listened to the fans".

 

Anyway, what point are you trying to make exactly?

 

So fucking what if Ashley and Mort said that? Hardly paragons of truth. KK was not appointed at the behest of the fans, no-one could believe it had happened and the response to the appointment could be best described (imo) as something along the lines of terrified excitement.

[NG32]

NG

 

I can quite clearly remember Ashley and Mort coming out with statements after the appointment saying "we listened to the fans".

 

Anyway, what point are you trying to make exactly?

 

So f***ing what if Ashley and Mort said that? Hardly paragons of truth. KK was not appointed at the behest of the fans, no-one could believe it had happened and the response to the appointment could be best described (imo) as something along the lines of terrified excitement.

 

 

Like getting caught wanking over pat butcher.

[Mowen]

NG

 

I can quite clearly remember Ashley and Mort coming out with statements after the appointment saying "we listened to the fans".

 

Anyway, what point are you trying to make exactly?

 

So f***ing what if Ashley and Mort said that? Hardly paragons of truth. KK was not appointed at the behest of the fans, no-one could believe it had happened and the response to the appointment could be best described (imo) as something along the lines of terrified excitement.

 

 

Like getting caught wanking over pat butcher.

 

Yes, a bit like that. Why couldn't I think of that analogy.

[UV]

Teasy

 

Same difference, mate Games still had to be won. They won theirs, we lost ours.

 

I just hate it when the fabled 12 point lead is mentioned, its a falacy IMO and the media and everyone else have used it as a stick to beat us with for years.  There was nothing we could do to stop Manure winning their delayed game that day or their game in hand.  All we could do is keep the actual 6 point lead we had and of course we didn't which does fall on Keegans shoulders.  Of course getting that lead in the first place also falls on his shoulders.

 

I agree, I hate that 12 point lead myth. As an added bonus macca also brings up the we lost because of the crap defence myth in the same post.

 

Man Utd 	38 	15 	4 	0 	36 	9 	10 	3 	6 	37 	26 	82 	+38
Newcastle 	38 	17 	1 	1 	38 	9 	7 	5 	7 	28 	28 	78 	+29

 

2 goals in it defensively, 7 goals in it offensively.

 

Man U's last 15 games were won 13, drew 1, lost 1. They dropped 5 points out of 45. It wasn't so much us bottling it as Man U going on a brilliant run.

[Howaythelads]

I agree that too many people on here have looked upon Keegan as a God for too long, based purely on his 5 years period in the 90s when he spent just as much, if not more, than other managers around at the time. That was all history when he came back.

 

Whether Ashley has gone back on promises to KK or not, is immaterial in this discussion. As some once else pointed out earlier in this thread, how many other managers would have spat the dummy because he couldnt get the owner to buy him a left back? I would say, virtually none. I dont buy the argument from KK about Denis Wise involvement either. As far as I recall, KK admitted he knew Wise was going to be appointed  before he came back.

 

I have no doubts at all that Keegan's ego mplayed a huge part in this whole saga and the biggest mistake Ashley made was appointing a so called fans favourite who would ultimately use his popularity with the fans to try and gain the ascendancy in the club.

 

Lets be honest here, whereever Keegan has gone in the past, he has not been able to operate without substantial funds and it has been clear for long enough now that the financial state of the club, even before Keegan came back, has been horrendous and needed to be addressed without any further financial deterioration. Keegan wanted his slice, the club could not afford it, Keegan spat his usual dummy and now, we are paying for the consequences. I hope Ashley wins his case againast Keegan, because KK neither deserves or warrants any financial compensation for his role in this whole saga. He should be ashamed of himself. a real bloody con man, if ever I saw one. AND YOU SUPPORTERS MAY HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.

 

More tripe.

 

Your far flung location sees you detached from reality but really, there is no excuse given the power of the internet.

 

When Keegan was appointed by fat ash the reality is that people saw him as a manager with some talent who may turn the team into a decent one and who may see us up near the top 6 or so and looking like challengers. Babbling on the way you do about Keegan being seen as a god or something merely goes to show your knowledge of the club and it's supporters is limited to what you read in the media.

 

Love the reference to YOU SUPPORTERS by the way. That tells a story. I suggest you stick to stuff about australia and leave the Newcastle stuff to those more clued up.

 

A rather angry and irrational response which rather confirms what macca was saying. Keegan has a status which, in many people's eyes, puts him beyond criticism.

 

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen him described as a 'legend'. I've also found that when you criticise the man, the response is often one of moral outrage, as though you'd pissed on the steps of the Vatican rather than made an observation about a human being who is as flawed as the rest of us.

 

Mate, my reply was neither angry nor irrational. I'm not all that bothered what some australian has to say about Newcastle United, why would I become angry?

 

Keegan is not above criticism. He made mistakes when he was here as manager the first time, more than one. Does that make you feel better?

[Howaythelads]

I agree that too many people on here have looked upon Keegan as a God for too long, based purely on his 5 years period in the 90s when he spent just as much, if not more, than other managers around at the time. That was all history when he came back.

 

Whether Ashley has gone back on promises to KK or not, is immaterial in this discussion. As some once else pointed out earlier in this thread, how many other managers would have spat the dummy because he couldnt get the owner to buy him a left back? I would say, virtually none. I dont buy the argument from KK about Denis Wise involvement either. As far as I recall, KK admitted he knew Wise was going to be appointed  before he came back.

 

I have no doubts at all that Keegan's ego mplayed a huge part in this whole saga and the biggest mistake Ashley made was appointing a so called fans favourite who would ultimately use his popularity with the fans to try and gain the ascendancy in the club.

 

Lets be honest here, whereever Keegan has gone in the past, he has not been able to operate without substantial funds and it has been clear for long enough now that the financial state of the club, even before Keegan came back, has been horrendous and needed to be addressed without any further financial deterioration. Keegan wanted his slice, the club could not afford it, Keegan spat his usual dummy and now, we are paying for the consequences. I hope Ashley wins his case againast Keegan, because KK neither deserves or warrants any financial compensation for his role in this whole saga. He should be ashamed of himself. a real bloody con man, if ever I saw one. AND YOU SUPPORTERS MAY HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.

 

More tripe.

 

Your far flung location sees you detached from reality but really, there is no excuse given the power of the internet.

 

When Keegan was appointed by fat ash the reality is that people saw him as a manager with some talent who may turn the team into a decent one and who may see us up near the top 6 or so and looking like challengers. Babbling on the way you do about Keegan being seen as a god or something merely goes to show your knowledge of the club and it's supporters is limited to what you read in the media.

 

Love the reference to YOU SUPPORTERS by the way. That tells a story. I suggest you stick to stuff about australia and leave the Newcastle stuff to those more clued up.

 

A rather angry and irrational response which rather confirms what macca was saying. Keegan has a status which, in many people's eyes, puts him beyond criticism.

 

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen him described as a 'legend'. I've also found that when you criticise the man, the response is often one of moral outrage, as though you'd pissed on the steps of the Vatican rather than made an observation about a human being who is as flawed as the rest of us.

 

Not his first though, is it?  Anyone who doesn't agree with him is talking 'tripe' and anyone who lives in Australia (including myself), has to bow to his superior knowledge of all things NUFC.

 

What a wonderful person to go for a pint before the match with 

 

 

Can't say I've ever noticed you. Who are you?

 

You won't know this, but people who go to the match disagree, so disagreeing with someone is nowt to do with whether or not someone like you or your mate are in australia, it's more to do with the content of posts made, which exhibit a huge degree of ignorance....or tripe, about Newcastle United. 

[Howaythelads]

How on earth did this thread turn into a Keegan debate as well?

 

Because a load of Ashley supporters desperately need to try and deflect at least some of the blame for the club's current state away from their beloved leader? If it wasn't for dastardly Keegan, the way Ashley was running the club would have worked & we'd now only be a couple of years from challenging for everything don't ya know.

 

who are these ashley supporters ? most agreed when he came in we couldn't keep going as we were financially, haven't got a clue what happened with keegan and think ashley got it totally wrong with kinnear etc.

 

 

or is it a case that some think if you have any criticism of keegan or the previous board then you must therefore think that ashley has done everything right ?

 

 

Being on the defensive in this way EVERYTIME someone makes this kind of comment sends out a message, madras.

 

Thought I'd mention it.

[Howaythelads]

HTL

Tripe is something they eat in Lancashire, isnt it? Not a bees dick from your Yorkshire roots mate.

 

Regarding your comment about me saying YOU SUPPORTERS, you seem to have replied out of context. I was referring to the money the fans pay in ticket sales, mechandise etc, which quite clearly, I am unable to do due to my location.

 

I would have thought even you would have been intelligent enough to work that one out....................then again, Maybe not

 

I think it is pretty obvious from many on here that the divine god KK is no longer thought that way by the masses. Or, are you happy that he is trying to take 10 million for a few months work out of our financially crippled club which quite probably is the paramount reason any takeover cannot be completed?

 

Your reply will be noted with interest

 

 

I didn't realise Gosforth was in Yorkshire, but maybe you think so.

 

Keegan is not thought of as a divine god, that is media talk.

 

I am intelligent enough to understand what you meant earlier. Work that out for yourself, if you can.

 

Hope this answer is interesting enough for you.

[Howaythelads]

NG

 

When I first commented on this thread, I said that all parties involved were responsible for the situation we find ourselves in, not just KK.

 

I have never rated the bloke as a manager and that has been proven time and time again at whatever club/national team he has been involved in.

 

As endearing he may have been to the supporters, KK has never lasted the distance long enough to win anything. Granted, in the 90s, NUFC played some beautiful football but remember, KK was backed to the hilt financially. Come the time when he wasnt, out came the dummies.

 

I dont expect my views on him to be popular but there again, I measure success on the number of trophies won rather than the level of entertainment produced. I am sure SAF and AW and the likes would have similar viewpoints too. Therefore, KK has been the ulimate failure in that respect.

 

The biggest failure all along was Ashley listening to the fans and bringing him back. I said it at the time and was castigated on here for it. I see many have changed their views since.

 

By the way, are you another one of these people who believe KK has earned his pay ouit, if he wins his case for so called constructive dismissal?

 

I dont remember any fans saying bring back KK, I never heard anyone mention it.  It was a suprise for everyone when it was annouced.

 

Exactly right, mate. Exactly right.

 

Where do some people get this stuff from? Shocking that the other aussie is complaining about me saying some posts are tripe, but honestly, where do these people get this stuff from? It is tripe, pure and simple. He'll be banging on about the fiction that is the 12 point lead next...

[Robster]

Teasy

 

Same difference, mate Games still had to be won. They won theirs, we lost ours.

 

I just hate it when the fabled 12 point lead is mentioned, its a falacy IMO and the media and everyone else have used it as a stick to beat us with for years.  There was nothing we could do to stop Manure winning their delayed game that day or their game in hand.  All we could do is keep the actual 6 point lead we had and of course we didn't which does fall on Keegans shoulders.  Of course getting that lead in the first place also falls on his shoulders.

 

Man U also blew something like a 12 point lead in 98 when Arsenal won their last 11 or 12 games (when Anelka burst onto the scene). So even with all of SAF's and Man U's success and experience, they were still capable of succumbing to the pressure.

[Howaythelads]

NG

 

You know there was more to it than that. Like throwing away a 12 point lead because KK tactically didnt know how to defend and grind out results.

 

Anyway, my comments was relating to SBR and how close we came in 2003.

 

And here it is...

 

More tripe. I won't bother going into why, just do some research for yourself to get your facts right before you gob off. You obviously have no first hand knowledge so try google if you don't want to ask any nufc supporter.

[Howaythelads]

NG

 

You know there was more to it than that. Like throwing away a 12 point lead because KK tactically didnt know how to defend and grind out results.

 

Anyway, my comments was relating to SBR and how close we came in 2003.

 

I think you'll find it was  number of factors which didn't see us past the post first.  I would say lack of experience was the main one and secondly a few of our regulars ran out of steam.

 

We were a hell of a lot closer to winning the league under KK then SBR and had a better team to boot.

 

Can you remember Alex fergusons title challenge before the prem when his Man U team blew a 12 pt lead? 

 

I think keeping Venison may have made a difference, but as I now see from the replies to the tripe posted earlier, people have already mentioned the remarkable run by manure, for which they get no credit such is the eagerness to put the boot in to Newcastle United and Kevin Keegan.

[Robster]

I think keeping Venison may have made a difference, but as I now see from the replies to the tripe posted earlier, people have already mentioned the remarkable run by manure, for which they get no credit such is the eagerness to put the boot in to Newcastle United and Kevin Keegan.

I fucking hate Eric Cantona 

He was their inspiration in that run.