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The England Thread

Pilko

by Pilko
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Incognito

Incognito

Posted
Posted

Depends what you mean by better player. More capable with a football? Natural ability? Goals, assists?

 

A better footballer is one who contributes more to winning games.

 

And how many times has Lampard done that for England?  Not many  I can think of

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BrettNUFC

BrettNUFC

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Posted

 

Never said it was. It's just too easy to say 'oh that fellow from way back when was a much better passer' or 'he was better at winning the ball'. I just think generally folk take for granted that Lampard has spent over a decade consistently getting more goals and assists than any other midfielder/winger/supporting striker in the top league in the world. Does that not make him one of England's greatest?

  no you loon

 

...hes been conisistently ave while playing IN an england shirt.  Admitedly hes had to play under various insane managers and their wacky teams selections/tactics.  I guess youhave to compare him to scholes or gazza ? 

 

Perhaps his midfield role is ill defined in englands team vs chelsea....cos he seems to muddle through a fair few matches.

 

Couldn't lace eithers boots. Good post that Womblemaster

 

Yet Scholes was the one who was dropped from the side in favour of Lampard or shafted out on the left a fair few times? People seem to forget the stick Scholes got at international level because he regularly never transferred his form for Man Utd over to England.

 

Scholes is a miles better footballer. He was played out wide for England, a waste of the best English midfielder we've produced in years

 

Not denying he isn't. However he was often criticised in the media for not producing the same form he showed for Man Utd.

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Ronaldo

Ronaldo

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Posted

Gazza had more talent, but to suggest he'll go down as a better player than Lampard is silly.

 

When did Lampard ever be the best player at a World Cup like Gazza was at Italia 90?  Im starting to think that you are related to Frank such is the ridiculousness of your debate.

 

If one 4 week tournament is the best you can throw up I don't think we can even call this a debate. As if that counts for well over a decade of consistent brilliance that's won medal after medal.

 

We're talking about a midfielder who's the top scorer in the history of his club and the top midfield scorer in the history of his country, and you're trying to outweigh that with 5 games, and call the opposing argument ridiculous.

 

You're being silly, man.

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Incognito

Incognito

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Posted

Never said it was. It's just too easy to say 'oh that fellow from way back when was a much better passer' or 'he was better at winning the ball'. I just think generally folk take for granted that Lampard has spent over a decade consistently getting more goals and assists than any other midfielder/winger/supporting striker in the top league in the world. Does that not make him one of England's greatest?

  no you loon

 

...hes been conisistently ave while playing IN an england shirt.  Admitedly hes had to play under various insane managers and their wacky teams selections/tactics.  I guess youhave to compare him to scholes or gazza ? 

 

Perhaps his midfield role is ill defined in englands team vs chelsea....cos he seems to muddle through a fair few matches.

 

Couldn't lace eithers boots. Good post that Womblemaster

 

Yet Scholes was the one who was dropped from the side in favour of Lampard or shafted out on the left a fair few times? People seem to forget the stick Scholes got at international level because he regularly never transferred his form for Man Utd over to England.

 

You're on drugs man .

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BrettNUFC

BrettNUFC

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Posted

Never said it was. It's just too easy to say 'oh that fellow from way back when was a much better passer' or 'he was better at winning the ball'. I just think generally folk take for granted that Lampard has spent over a decade consistently getting more goals and assists than any other midfielder/winger/supporting striker in the top league in the world. Does that not make him one of England's greatest?

  no you loon

 

...hes been conisistently ave while playing IN an england shirt.  Admitedly hes had to play under various insane managers and their wacky teams selections/tactics.  I guess youhave to compare him to scholes or gazza ? 

 

Perhaps his midfield role is ill defined in englands team vs chelsea....cos he seems to muddle through a fair few matches.

 

Couldn't lace eithers boots. Good post that Womblemaster

 

Yet Scholes was the one who was dropped from the side in favour of Lampard or shafted out on the left a fair few times? People seem to forget the stick Scholes got at international level because he regularly never transferred his form for Man Utd over to England.

 

You're on drugs man .

 

Clearly, by stating a fact that Lampard/Gerrard were both given a CM role over him? Was only 10 year ago...ish. Not saying Sven was correct in his decision but this was the case, unless i was on drugs back then too and just created this whole illusion?

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Ronaldo

Ronaldo

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Posted

Lampard scored 3 goals in Euro 2004.  Not bad imo.

 

Top scorer in WC qualifying for 2006 too. Not saying he's been great for England because he hasn't, but when you're talking about the greatest players England's produced he's got to be pretty prominent on the list, especially in my lifetime.

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Incognito

Incognito

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Posted

Gazza had more talent, but to suggest he'll go down as a better player than Lampard is silly.

 

When did Lampard ever be the best player at a World Cup like Gazza was at Italia 90?  Im starting to think that you are related to Frank such is the ridiculousness of your debate.

 

If one 4 week tournament is the best you can throw up I don't think we can even call this a debate. As if that counts for well over a decade of consistent brilliance that's won medal after medal.

 

We're talking about a midfielder who's the top scorer in the history of his club and the top midfield scorer in the history of his country, and you're trying to outweigh that with 5 games, and call the opposing argument ridiculous.

 

You're being silly, man.

 

I'm talking for England. Gazza played in 2 major tournaments and reached semi finals in both . In the WC qualifications in between,  we didn't qualify. Missing for most of the campaign,  Gascoigne . Coincidence?  Of course not. We are talking about the highest level of football here

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Incognito

Incognito

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Posted

Never said it was. It's just too easy to say 'oh that fellow from way back when was a much better passer' or 'he was better at winning the ball'. I just think generally folk take for granted that Lampard has spent over a decade consistently getting more goals and assists than any other midfielder/winger/supporting striker in the top league in the world. Does that not make him one of England's greatest?

  no you loon

 

...hes been conisistently ave while playing IN an england shirt.  Admitedly hes had to play under various insane managers and their wacky teams selections/tactics.  I guess youhave to compare him to scholes or gazza ? 

 

Perhaps his midfield role is ill defined in englands team vs chelsea....cos he seems to muddle through a fair few matches.

 

Couldn't lace eithers boots. Good post that Womblemaster

 

Yet Scholes was the one who was dropped from the side in favour of Lampard or shafted out on the left a fair few times? People seem to forget the stick Scholes got at international level because he regularly never transferred his form for Man Utd over to England.

 

You're on drugs man .

 

Clearly, by stating a fact that Lampard/Gerrard were both given a CM role over him? Was only 10 year ago...ish. Not saying Sven was correct in his decision but this was the case, unless i was on drugs back then too and just created this whole illusion?

 

He wasn't dropped you goon, he retired. He was shunted left to accommodate Lampard and this was the reason wht ge retired. Sven obviously had more confidence in sticking Scholes there rather than Lampard. Capello did the same to Gerrard in 2010.

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BrettNUFC

BrettNUFC

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Never said it was. It's just too easy to say 'oh that fellow from way back when was a much better passer' or 'he was better at winning the ball'. I just think generally folk take for granted that Lampard has spent over a decade consistently getting more goals and assists than any other midfielder/winger/supporting striker in the top league in the world. Does that not make him one of England's greatest?

  no you loon

 

...hes been conisistently ave while playing IN an england shirt.  Admitedly hes had to play under various insane managers and their wacky teams selections/tactics.  I guess youhave to compare him to scholes or gazza ? 

 

Perhaps his midfield role is ill defined in englands team vs chelsea....cos he seems to muddle through a fair few matches.

 

Couldn't lace eithers boots. Good post that Womblemaster

 

Yet Scholes was the one who was dropped from the side in favour of Lampard or shafted out on the left a fair few times? People seem to forget the stick Scholes got at international level because he regularly never transferred his form for Man Utd over to England.

 

You're on drugs man .

 

Clearly, by stating a fact that Lampard/Gerrard were both given a CM role over him? Was only 10 year ago...ish. Not saying Sven was correct in his decision but this was the case, unless i was on drugs back then too and just created this whole illusion?

 

He wasn't dropped you goon, he retired. He was shunted left to accommodate Lampard and this was the reason wht ge retired. Sven obviously had more confidence in sticking Scholes there rather than Lampard. Capello did the same to Gerrard in 2010.

 

So me saying he was shafted out to the left was correct then. He huffed at the decision and retired, yeah what an all time great he was.

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Nobody

Nobody

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Posted

As is the case with Messi and Barcelona & Argentina, what Lampard has done for Chelsea is far more important than what he has done in an England shirt. These days, what you do for your club week in, week out, and especially for as long as Lampard has done it for Chelsea, is so much more important than some shite qualifiers and some four week tournaments every other year, where injuries, inept managers, lack of form, fatigue from a long season etc play a huge role. It's not like Lampard could've swapped playing for England to a team where the manager knew how to use him correctly.

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KaKa

KaKa

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Posted

Goals from midfield are an invaluable commodity, and Lampard's ability to provide these is quite astonishing.

 

However, a midfielder that can keep possession, dictate a game, and orchestrate attacking move after attacking move is absolute gold dust.

 

For me personally, if I had to pick either to build a team around I would go with Pirlo.

 

I do appreciate Lampard's brilliance though, but I can't help but feel he is ultimately more reliant on the kind of players around him, as well as the setup he is placed in.

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BrettNUFC

BrettNUFC

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Posted

We are debating England as it is the England thread. And Lampard at best has been average for England.

 

What was Scholes for England?

 

Misused and wasted.

 

So surely he can't go down as one of the greatest then if we misused and wasted him regardless of his achievements at club level?

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Hanshithispantz

Hanshithispantz

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We are debating England as it is the England thread. And Lampard at best has been average for England.

We actually weren't, tbf.

 

Nobody is hating on Lampard :lol:

 

Nope. One of the best players of the PL era and one of the best England has ever produced. Not a soul here has hated on him.

 

It appears that way now, but the original comment was that Lampard is one of the best players England has ever produced, which he is. In an England shirt he's been very average in major competitions, he's certainly not one of England's best in that respect, although that pool is still pretty small.

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