Neil Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I'm not saying Henderson shouldn't go. He is also symptomatic of how weak we are, but at least he has time to improve and indeed has improved in the past 6 months. But to label Barry and Carrick pathetic options for midfield while Henderson 'excellent' is very wide of the mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I'm not saying Henderson shouldn't go. He is also symptomatic of how weak we are, but at least he has time to improve and indeed has improved in the past 6 months. But to label Barry and Carrick pathetic options for midfield while Henderson 'excellent' is very wide of the mark. I agree with you. That said, I wouldn't pick either at this moment in time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I'm not saying Henderson shouldn't go. He is also symptomatic of how weak we are, but at least he has time to improve and indeed has improved in the past 6 months. But to label Barry and Carrick pathetic options for midfield while Henderson 'excellent' is very wide of the mark. I didn't say he was excellent I said he was having an excellent season, which he has. He's been prominent in Liverpool's form providing lots of energy from midfield and linked up well with the forwards and has made a big contribution to the side. For me a choice of two 32 year old DM's who are past their best and were never great anyways is pathetic for a nation of our standard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 But you've said he should be nailed on for the side, while Carrick/Barry would be pathetic options. The difference between likelihoods of them going isn't as massive as you think. Nor should it be, as Henderson hasn't shown enough to deserve to be a nailed-on option. I think he should be seriously considered, but hardly nailed-on. In terms of your rating of Carrick and Barry, I'm not saying I'd want either to go. I don't think we'll disagree in saying we've got an alarming lack of options, but that's something that's been abundantly clear for years now and will be until we take a long-term approach to the national side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 But you've said he should be nailed on for the side, while Carrick/Barry would be pathetic options. The difference between likelihoods of them going isn't as massive as you think. Nor should it be, as Henderson hasn't shown enough to deserve to be a nailed-on option. I think he should be seriously considered, but hardly nailed-on. In terms of your rating of Carrick and Barry, I'm not saying I'd want either to go. I don't think we'll disagree in saying we've got an alarming lack of options, but that's something that's been abundantly clear for years now and will be until we take a long-term approach to the national side. Personally i think at 23 and the form Henderson is showing i think he should be nailed on to go. I wouldn't have him in the starting 11 but he's an option i'd rather have certainly over Barry from the bench. Carrick is probably the most likely to start and he's been the worst of the bunch this season. I'll be surprised if we try and play Gerrard in that deep role giving his past failings and Villa on Saturday showed just how weak he is in that position. By saying they are pathetic options didn't mean i wouldn't take them. Carrick should be nailed on too and probably starting but i'm not a big fan of his. Although i've been impressed with how Barry has done since joining Everton, he wouldn't cross my mind for a recall, his time has been and gone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Recalling Gareth Barry for the WC would be such an England thing to do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Recalling Gareth Barry for the WC would be such an England thing to do. I think his so called renaissance, and to be fair he has had a good season thus far, is more down to the quality of the Premier League or lack of it than anything else. I always harp on about previous eras when discussing England, and there ain't many that I can think of where Gareth Barry would've been a permanent squad choice. To me he's not much more than a run of the mill player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Recalling Gareth Barry for the WC would be such an England thing to do. I think his so called renaissance, and to be fair he has had a good season thus far, is more down to the quality of the Premier League or lack of it than anything else. I always harp on about previous eras when discussing England, and there ain't many that I can think of where Gareth Barry would've been a permanent squad choice. To me he's not much more than a run of the mill player. Totally agree, with particular emphasis on the lack of quality of the Premier League that are English. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Earlier on in this thread people were hyping Young as someone with the potential to be a top player. The young kids are cool until we realise that can't mix it with the big boys. The likes of Henderson, Barkley haven't even played at the business end of the Europa yet. Let alone CL. Let alone the WC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Recalling Gareth Barry for the WC would be such an England thing to do. I think his so called renaissance, and to be fair he has had a good season thus far, is more down to the quality of the Premier League or lack of it than anything else. I always harp on about previous eras when discussing England, and there ain't many that I can think of where Gareth Barry would've been a permanent squad choice. To me he's not much more than a run of the mill player. This part is not true. He's comfortably one of the better CM's in the division. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Recalling Gareth Barry for the WC would be such an England thing to do. On form (ignoring any "plan for the future" stuff) he has a decent case IMO. Not that he's good enough to compete with Spain etc, but we have to pick someone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Earlier on in this thread people were hyping Young as someone with the potential to be a top player. The young kids are cool until we realise that can't mix it with the big boys. The likes of Henderson, Barkley haven't even played at the business end of the Europa yet. Let alone CL. Let alone the WC. Not sure what your point is here? You saying you wouldn't take Barkley/Henderson? We are hardly flushed with options. I'd take both of them over Barry but you seem to say in your next post that he's one of the better players in the division and should go. Obviously we all know this country hypes up players from a young age and very few manage to reach expectations. Nothing new there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Better to take someone young and for them to prove themselves not good enough than play someone already proven to be not good enough in the first instance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I still can't forgive Barry for costing us Germany's 3rd and 4th goal at the World Cup. He's now 32 and although he's been in good form for Everton, no way should he be recalled. His chance should have been and gone. Not like he's some former world class midfielder, like a Lampard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Earlier on in this thread people were hyping Young as someone with the potential to be a top player. The young kids are cool until we realise that can't mix it with the big boys. The likes of Henderson, Barkley haven't even played at the business end of the Europa yet. Let alone CL. Let alone the WC. Not sure what your point is here? You saying you wouldn't take Barkley/Henderson? We are hardly flushed with options. I'd take both of them over Barry but you seem to say in your next post that he's one of the better players in the division and should go. Obviously we all know this country hypes up players from a young age and very few manage to reach expectations. Nothing new there. My point - there's not point calling a player like Barry crap, then hype up the likes of Henderson in the next sentence (not saying anyone has done exactly that) is counter productive. We need to use less extremes when discussing players. Both will be peripheral if chosen so we might as well go with the younger lad but if we had to rely on one to help get a result in the group stages, it would be Barry over Henderson for me. Henderson's hardly a kid either and is largely dependent on athleticism. I'm not sure how much better he's going to get. FWIW he seems to have it right between the ears. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I still can't forgive Barry for costing us Germany's 3rd and 4th goal at the World Cup. He's now 32 and although he's been in good form for Everton, no way should he be recalled. His chance should have been and gone. Not like he's some former world class midfielder, like a Lampard. This is the wrong way to look at it. We should look at what players can offer vs. their limitations rather than just looking at past failures. Lampard and co. where all a part of the midfield that were out passed, out ran, out-thought in that game. If it were up to me, only 1 of those old midfielders would've got any caps after that tournament. But as we've played lads that have gone to 3/4/5 major tournaments and disappointed (Gerrard & Lampard), nobody else should be excluded based on past performances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I've never rated Barry, i've never rated Henderson but Henderson over the last year is really winning me over. Especially over the last couple of month and i think he's one of the most improved players in the premiership now. Think he's gone a bit unnoticed by the media in Liverpool's recent form when Suarez/Sturridge takes the headlines but he's been the engine in the midfield. Starting to show the promise he did when at the mackems and under 21 captain. Really do believe he should be on the plane to brazil. If we hold him back for the likes of Gareth Barry then we are never going to get anywhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Always thought Henderson would come good.... he was written off far too early because he was signed at a bad time. Loads of energy, good technique, can strike a ball, everything he needs as he gains experience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I still can't forgive Barry for costing us Germany's 3rd and 4th goal at the World Cup. He's now 32 and although he's been in good form for Everton, no way should he be recalled. His chance should have been and gone. Not like he's some former world class midfielder, like a Lampard. This is the wrong way to look at it. We should look at what players can offer vs. their limitations rather than just looking at past failures. Lampard and co. where all a part of the midfield that were out passed, out ran, out-thought in that game. If it were up to me, only 1 of those old midfielders would've got any caps after that tournament. But as we've played lads that have gone to 3/4/5 major tournaments and disappointed (Gerrard & Lampard), nobody else should be excluded based on past performances. Lampard also scored the 'goal' and hit the bar. Gerrard got the assist in that game. Barry fell over the ball and cost us the 3rd goal then trotted beside Ozil and kind of put a tackle in if you can call it that but merely just bottled it and they scored the 4th. Yes Germany were the far better side in that game and we can count ourselves lucky to be in that game for such a long period but that's what i remember in that game of those 3 and Barry came off by far the worst. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Recalling Gareth Barry for the WC would be such an England thing to do. I think his so called renaissance, and to be fair he has had a good season thus far, is more down to the quality of the Premier League or lack of it than anything else. I always harp on about previous eras when discussing England, and there ain't many that I can think of where Gareth Barry would've been a permanent squad choice. To me he's not much more than a run of the mill player. This part is not true. He's comfortably one of the better CM's in the division. Read the whole of the posts Disco and myself made instead of cherry picking it. It explains that the Premier league isn't very good hence why someone as run of the mill as Gareth Barry is rated by some. Fucking Happy Shopper Ronaldo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I still can't forgive Barry for costing us Germany's 3rd and 4th goal at the World Cup. He's now 32 and although he's been in good form for Everton, no way should he be recalled. His chance should have been and gone. Not like he's some former world class midfielder, like a Lampard. His reputation does seem to have been fatally damaged by that game, but the whole team were over-committing forwards in search of an equaliser, and Barry was left in a situation where his lack of pace did get exposed. Trouble is, you could pick holes in all the alternatives. Henderson is perhaps the only candidate with pace, but that anchor position is one that demands experience and he still looks a bit raw to me. And in any case - not that I've seen every Liverpool game, mind - I don't think that's his role at his club, unlike Barry. My other point is that Barry does actually pass the ball well. He's an ex-centre back, and looks it a bit, and I think as a result his technique on the ball is under-appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 He's not 'run of the mill' though. He's a good player Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 He's not 'run of the mill' though. He's a good player In a crap league. At International level, at best, he's run of the mill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I rate Barry - he's a canny player & probably one of the more consistent in the league. I wouldn't have him in the Brazil squad mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorJ_01 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Barry was mint last night. Absolutely pinging balls. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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