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We haven't given young players a chance though. We gave Sterling a chance because we haven't got any other wingers. Barkley was effectively used as a typical "we're losing, sling an attacker on" sub. Shaw has about as much WC experience as Flip.

 

Wha? The entire frontline was youngsters apart from Rooney, and with Henderson in midfield. That's like half the team, not too bad.

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Uruguay have a truly world-class talent. We don't. That was the difference.

 

However behind that it was the same old England. You'd have thought given everyone has seen Suarez play loads over the last 2-3 years in England, we'd be a bit more aware of him. Yet we seemed baffled by his alert, predatory running. Defence was too slow to react to it and at this level - well, Suarez's level anyway - that's not good enough.

 

Midfield was sluggish, lack of movement.... it's just the usual story.

 

Got to go fully with the younger players for Euro 2016 qualifying. Barkley, Lallana, Sterling, Wilshere, Sturridge. Get them all playing together.

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We haven't given young players a chance though. We gave Sterling a chance because we haven't got any other wingers. Barkley was effectively used as a typical "we're losing, sling an attacker on" sub. Shaw has about as much WC experience as Flip.

 

Wha? The entire frontline was youngsters apart from Rooney, and with Henderson in midfield. That's like half the team, not too bad.

I wouldn't really consider Sturridge, Welbeck and Henderson to be "youngsters" mind.

 

 

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We haven't given young players a chance though. We gave Sterling a chance because we haven't got any other wingers. Barkley was effectively used as a typical "we're losing, sling an attacker on" sub. Shaw has about as much WC experience as Flip.

 

Wha? The entire frontline was youngsters apart from Rooney, and with Henderson in midfield. That's like half the team, not too bad.

I wouldn't really consider Sturridge, Welbeck and Henderson to be "youngsters" mind.

 

The underlying caveat being only one of them is good enough at this level.

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Welbeck, man. Just why?

 

On this note was thinking that the one thing that worked vs. Italy was the attack, even Welbeck down the right. If there was a weak point in the game it was the defence and how well protected it was.

 

Roy's answer was to change 75%* of a functional attack wasn't it? Leaving only Sturridge where he was the previous game, all the while seemingly doing nothing to plug the defence which ended up costing us.

 

Laughable really, but let's not judge him just yet lads.

 

*from the point I caught it Welbeck seemed to be left wing so i've assumed he started there but that may not be the case I'm aware.

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Lallana's not as young as I thought he was :lol:

 

Yeah, I thought he was a couple of years younger. :lol: Point remains though, the 'newer' England players are we should be placing most of our emphasis and optimism.

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We were unlucky to get the group we did, that much is true I guess. Still not an excuse at all as we've fallen spectacularly short once again.

 

We'll be better equipped in 2 years if our players keep progressing. Really need a dude like Vidal, though, as someone has said. Really wish Rodwell didn't get injured then go to Man City. Ruined him.

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Welbeck, man. Just why?

 

On this note was thinking that the one thing that worked vs. Italy was the attack, even Welbeck down the right. If there was a weak point in the game it was the defence and how well protected it was.

 

Roy's answer was to change 75%* of a functional attack wasn't it? Leaving only Sturridge where he was the previous game, all the while seemingly doing nothing to plug the defence which ended up costing us.

 

Media doesnt help though. All the emphasis is on Rooney & Hodgson makes himself an easy target if he doesn't change it. Maybe he'd have done it anyway, I've still no idea why some managers can't adapt a side when something isn't working. Half time, just put them back in the Italy formation, or do something else. They likely get to attached to a system they've planned in preperation & can't take the ego hit when it fails.

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Guest Roger Kint

Sturridge was too wide a lot of the time. Thought he played really well though, his all round play is fantastic. If he keeps progressing we'll have a bloody good striker to take to the next Euros.

 

Is the next Euros being extended or is that the one after? We may need it just to get there

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Roy deciding to go Alan Pardew on us and play Welbeck because he works hard didn't help like.

 

Also once again we struggled to assert any sort of control over the game,  Gerrard barely showed for the ball often leaving Henderson to come and pick it up from deep where he should actually be shuttling between the lines

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Think Jagielka, Hart, Gerrard, Henderson & Welbeck were the players who didnt step up. The rest played decently, with stand outs from Sturridge, Sterling & Barkley in the first game.

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I think for Suarez' first, it's just a brilliant bit of movement and some great vision from Cavani. Most defenders miss that tbh.

 

There were times throughout the game though where we lost all shape at the back. Gerrard sitting far too deep didn't help either. If you watch Henderson, he's covering the area in front of Gerrard when Gerrard should be moving with play.

 

I watched it again last night because I felt I missed a lot with watching the bairn as well. It's astonishing the lack of shape.

 

I'm absolutely devastated to be honest. 2 years preparation, what we saw just wasn't good enough.

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I think for Suarez' first, it's just a brilliant bit of movement and some great vision from Cavani. Most defenders miss that tbh.

 

There were times throughout the game though where we lost all shape at the back. Gerrard sitting far too deep didn't help either. If you watch Henderson, he's covering the area in front of Gerrard when Gerrard should be moving with play.

 

I watched it again last night because I felt I missed a lot with watching the bairn as well. It's astonishing the lack of shape.

 

I'm absolutely devastated to be honest. 2 years preparation, what we saw just wasn't good enough.

I think the opposite lol, Gerrard didn't come and show for the ball nearly often enough leaving Henderson to do it.

 

Gerrard doesn't have the legs to push forward hence the whole reason for playing Henderson as a box to box player.

 

Henderson doesn't have the range of passing or creativity to play the deepest lying midfielder unless you want to utilise him as more of an anchor. If that is the goal then playing Gerrard alongside him doesn't make much sense as the space between the back 6 and the front four will be too large.

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It was a weird shape, as you had Henderson playing in front of Gerrard so they just seemed like they were getting in each other's way. I understood Gerrards role I just thought he sat far too deep. Reminded me of Alan Smith tbh.

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It was a weird shape, as you had Henderson playing in front of Gerrard so they just seemed like they were getting in each other's way. I understood Gerrards role I just thought he sat far too deep. Reminded me of Alan Smith tbh.

I felt Gerrard just went missing plain and simple.

 

Bottled it for me, it's fine playing few  xabi alonso and Pirlo do it week in week out but they show for the ball and look to make things happen Gerrard didn't do that

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Guest reefatoon

Henderson always seems so close to his midfield partner.  It's like he can't get through a game without holding hands as if he is a terrified kid.

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Barkley didn't do anything though, through no fault of his own really like, but you cannot claim Welbeck didn't step up but Barkley was a standout, man.

 

Thought he set up Rooneys great chance v Italy, was Baines again who did pretty well going forwards. Just like how easily Barkley finds space & gets things moving.

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Yes agree about Johnson. I thought he looked nervy when they were in possession but decent enough offensively. Bit lucky for his assist but we needed someone to try and go past a man.

 

I remember seeing Sven try Beckham in a similar role. You need legs in your midfield at international level, and especially in that kind of climate. Perhaps the plan was for Gerrard to sit deep and watch the ball to Suarez but Suarez was so mobile that it was pointless. You're assuming that one of the worlds best off the ball is going to stay still and sit behind a defensive midfielder. Naive tactics.

 

 

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Yes agree about Johnson. I thought he looked nervy when they were in possession but decent enough offensively. Bit lucky for his assist but we needed someone to try and go past a man.

 

I remember seeing Sven try Beckham in a similar role. You need legs in your midfield at international level, and especially in that kind of climate. Perhaps the plan was for Gerrard to sit deep and watch the ball to Suarez but Suarez was so mobile that it was pointless. You're assuming that one of the worlds best off the ball is going to stay still and sit behind a defensive midfielder. Naive tactics.

Yup that's why teams playing a registered tend to have 2 players in front of the deepest midfielder if he's creative.

 

Watch France tonight who play 433 but with Pogba and Matuidi covering a lot of the ground in front of Cabaye

 

This is also apart of the reason why Liverpool fell apart at the end of the season they ran out of legs Henderson was knackered and Allan and lucas aren't good enough players all around to play the box to box role

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