The England Thread

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

:(I'm confused. George said Welbeck was no better than Sammy Ameobi a few months back and now he's putting him in his ideal England side ahead of Sturridge.

 

Welbeck's high work rate selfless play on the left side suits Hodgson's system more than Sturridge. I can't see Rooney and Sturridge both shining together while playing 4-4-2, and sacrifice has to be made, and the superior player is of course Rooney.

 

Welbeck on the other hand, competes with likes of Milner/Chamberlain/Young for the LF spot, and I think he fits it better than his competitors. Looks good for Sammy's future chances for England, though it'd be canny of Nigeria called him up on Shola's advise for the WC.

No it wouldn't. I don't think Sammy has the quality to ever be a mainstay for either of his nations. Both have many players with identical styles of play. I think Sammy is a player who will eventually spend his time shuttling between the 15th to 30th leveled teams in England. Yo-yo player. Talented but not enough.

 

Sturridge has been the best forward in England from the time he stepped foot on Merseyside until now, and by some distance, imo. England need to find a place for him.

[TaylorJ_01]

Sammy won't get near a national team unless he has a relative from British Gibraltar.

[Ronaldo]

Horrible thought but he's well below the level Shola was at when he was that age.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Danny Higginbottom and Sammy Ameobi

[mrmojorisin75]

Fucking hell, Townsend is a young player who has just came onto the scene... people criticising him for what, not being world-class, the finished article?! That is another thing that's wrong about England and our game, morons on the stands who expect everyone to be the best or to be able to compete against the best. The lad is talented and has some good attributes, lets not fucking write him off just yet eh, same applies to other promising youngsters. At least Townsend wants to get on the ball and get at the opposition. He's quick, powerful and has a good shot on him. Limited and one dimensional maybe but he's a threat.

 

if this is in direct response to what had gone immediately before i'd like to know where anyone, including me, has said anything different to what you've highlighted in bold?

 

this was the post that started me off as it was following on people discussing townsend:

 

I've often had the feeling that we have a tendency in this country to associate skill with individualism - with a player (usually a winger) beating his man or several and laying on a chance. Other countries tend to rely more on intricate, one-touch passing movements to open things up. That was a striking difference last night between us and the Germans.

 

Several times, when Sturridge had the ball, he chose to advance towards his opponent, as though he was going to try and get past him, even though it was never really on. Most of the time, he had to check and lay the ball off elsewhere, but it made it difficult to build an attack with the sort of rhythm and mutual understanding that you see from the best continental teams. It was like either he, or the team, lacked other ideas. I saw a bit of the U21 game, and Sterling seemed to suffer from the same pattern of thinking.

 

It's a longstanding problem, but I do think the situation is improving. We do have players coming through - Wilshere, Barkley, Oxlade-C - who are a bit more versatile.

 

the point isn’t that townsend is the problem, that he's not finished article or a world beater or whatever, the bit in bold is the fucking problem and townsend is a part of it as a whole - i offered my own opinion as to why his style is easier to nullify especially at international level and i stand by it, that's not to say he can't change or adapt, i hope he does

 

insanity this needs spelling out to such a degree

 

[The College Dropout]

Did we try Rooney behind Sturridge?

[Dinho lad]

I actually think Townsend has the potential to diversify his game and become a more rounded player. In fact, I think Hodgson has been instructing him to just concentrate on getting his head down and taking on the full back. All right against Poland and Montenegro. Not enough against Germany.

 

The trouble is, once good defenders double up on him, not only does he find it difficult to get past them, he finds it difficult to find any team-mate with a pass. He gets trapped, like most players would.

 

We need to persist with 4-3-3, with players who are versatile enough to work the ball down the middle as well as the flanks. I think Townsend could adapt in time. Oxlade-C is already there. Walcott - I don't think so.

 

Based on what exactly? The rest of your post?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Townsend's a decent passer, he can cross, shoot, he can use both feet, he's rapid, I really don't see what the problem is.

[Dinho lad]

Your fucking head.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Just so weird to single out a young and extremely promising player for criticism. He might need to develop his decision making and learn to work within a system more, but obviously, he's 22.

[Dinho lad]

Just so weird to single out a young and extremely promising player for criticism. He might need to develop his decision making and learn to work within a system more, but obviously, he's 22.

 

 

Well, I disagree with that description. I  think he's got some good attributes but I wouldn't say his performances since he came on the scenes is anything special for all the hype that he's getting.

[Cronky]

I actually think Townsend has the potential to diversify his game and become a more rounded player. In fact, I think Hodgson has been instructing him to just concentrate on getting his head down and taking on the full back. All right against Poland and Montenegro. Not enough against Germany.

 

The trouble is, once good defenders double up on him, not only does he find it difficult to get past them, he finds it difficult to find any team-mate with a pass. He gets trapped, like most players would.

 

We need to persist with 4-3-3, with players who are versatile enough to work the ball down the middle as well as the flanks. I think Townsend could adapt in time. Oxlade-C is already there. Walcott - I don't think so.

 

Based on what exactly? The rest of your post?

 

Based on the fact that his touch on the ball seems reasonably good, and so he has the potential to adapt to other attacking roles. I don't think he's solely reliant on his pace, although in the last few internationals he's clearly been instructed to use it to full advantage.

 

Walcott, on the other hand, looks like an athlete who happens to have chosen football, and although he's worked very hard at developing his game, in the end I think Townsend is the better long-term bet.

[Dinho lad]

I think his attributes are better suited to PL type game rather than top class international matches. But, we'll see.

[TaylorJ_01]

IMO Townsend is a decent player but he needs to add variation to his game. I personally think hell get figured out pretty quickly, whether he has it in his locker to vary his game, perhaps cut down on his long range shooting he can be very useful

 

Disagree with the last bit. No-one was getting any shots away at all the other night. Absolutely riddled with fannying about. He just rocked up, shot and hit the post. Need more of it imo.

[Kanj]

Sturridge and Rooney have to be in the 11, surely?

[Rob W]

god help us.......

[Guest Howaythetoon]

if this is in direct response to what had gone immediately before I'd like to know where anyone, including me, has said anything different to what you've highlighted in bold?

 

No, its to do with the general fan malaise when it comes to our own players, especially the younger players. A huge portion of England fans are so down on our own players its unreal and becoming quite embarrassing now. Ironically these fans are usually the quickest to shout loudest when we fail to win a world cup or when one of our players doesn't play well.

 

It does my head in and it is part of the overall problem within our game and it needs to stop. I'll tell you what else needs to stop as well, we need to stop trying to compete and compare ourselves with other nations, other teams, setups and indeed with our players too.

 

How about not trying to play like Spain or Germany and how about playing to our own strengths and playing our own game because all we are doing is embarrassing ourselves and getting further and further away from ever doing anything at international level.

 

I quite like the current and emerging crop of younger players coming through, your Wellbecks, Townsends, Smallings, Sturridges et al. They are not and never will be world-beaters, but they are good players with good attributes and we need to stop comparing them with other players, or rather stop trying to use other players to bash our own simply because they are not like or as good as other players.

 

Lampard... well he's no Pirlo is he?

 

Wilshire? Who does he think he is, Xavi

 

 

 

Even Bale... who f***ing Stevie Wonder can tell you is a top top player, one of the very best, gets downplayed by English fans. Presuambly because he's not as good as Messi or Ronaldo... It is madness.

 

Back to England...

 

If international football was a league table, we would be mid-table. And we need to accept this now and get over any hangups we have regarding technique etc.

 

That's not our game and never will be, not for the next hundred years or so anyway because its too ingrained in our culture. Dads up and down the country when their kids take to the pitch want their kids to get stuck in, fight for the ball, run their socks off etc. On the stands fans demand the same from their own team and players.

 

Me, rather than try and be like Germany or Spain how about we just focus on what we are good at, what we can play like and develop our game from there.

 

We need to start playing a typical Premier League game. Fast, direct, frenzied and end to end. Let Townsend run with the ball, cut inside and shoot. Let him pin back the full-back. Why not, that's what he is good and at what he does. He isn't going to play cute little one twos in little triangles or thread through amazing balls. So why ask him to. The same applies to all our players. What is Sturridge good at? What is Rooney good at? Get them playing their own game and at the kind of tempo and directness of our league.

[Jayson]

IMO Townsend is a decent player but he needs to add variation to his game. I personally think hell get figured out pretty quickly, whether he has it in his locker to vary his game, perhaps cut down on his long range shooting he can be very useful

 

Disagree with the last bit. No-one was getting any shots away at all the other night. Absolutely riddled with fannying about. He just rocked up, shot and hit the post. Need more of it imo.

 

Maybe, but he looks to shoot far too often from long range imo. His hit ratio is low.

 

Hes either hit the woodwork or scored from long range in each of his last 3 starts for England?

[alexf]

Just a small comment about HTT's post. I'd say the vast majority, especially the media, overrated Bale rather than a handful of people on forums underrating him surely?

[Disco]

 

We need to start playing a typical Premier League game. Fast, direct, frenzied and end to end. Let Townsend run with the ball, cut inside and shoot. Let him pin back the full-back. Why not, that's what he is good and at what he does. He isn't going to play cute little one twos in little triangles or thread through amazing balls. So why ask him to. The same applies to all our players. What is Sturridge good at? What is Rooney good at? Get them playing their own game and at the kind of tempo and directness of our league.

 

I've said this for a while.

[The College Dropout]

Just a small comment about HTT's post. I'd say the vast majority, especially the media, overrated Bale rather than a handful of people on forums underrating him surely?

 

I don't even think the media really over-rated him. In the PL he, RVP & Suarez where the standout players. All 3 based on last season are in that bracket just below the top two.

 

Up until around Christmas I was saying Mata was better than Bale but around January-Feb Bale went full beast-mode. Some of the best play i've ever seen in the PL. Scoring winners damn near every week.

 

The only people that have over-rated him are Real Madrid.

[Ronaldo]

We need to start playing a typical Premier League game. Fast, direct, frenzied and end to end. Let Townsend run with the ball, cut inside and shoot. Let him pin back the full-back. Why not, that's what he is good and at what he does. He isn't going to play cute little one twos in little triangles or thread through amazing balls. So why ask him to. The same applies to all our players. What is Sturridge good at? What is Rooney good at? Get them playing their own game and at the kind of tempo and directness of our league.

 

Amen, bruv. This is exactly why Sven and Capello (especially) should never have been appointed.

[Ashley17]

Genuine question - if that's how you want England to play, did you want Harry in charge?

[Ronaldo]

Nobody wanted Harry in charge. The man's an utter disgrace.

[Cronky]

 

We need to start playing a typical Premier League game. Fast, direct, frenzied and end to end. Let Townsend run with the ball, cut inside and shoot. Let him pin back the full-back. Why not, that's what he is good and at what he does. He isn't going to play cute little one twos in little triangles or thread through amazing balls. So why ask him to. The same applies to all our players. What is Sturridge good at? What is Rooney good at? Get them playing their own game and at the kind of tempo and directness of our league.

 

I've said this for a while.

 

Probably ever since Hungary beat us 6-3 in 1953, this debate has been going back and forth. It seems clear to me that if we really want to be persistent challengers for the major tournaments, we need to develop a more technical style. And that is starting to happen, at long last.