Newcastle United Supporters Trust (NUST)

[quayside]

I misread it slightly, the figures are from July until now, not over the course of the season. Anyway here's the e-mail:

 

Thanks for the email and comments and I understand your concerns.

 

The figures are from the projections for this season (since July)

 

Which were incomings £64m outgoings £62.5m  - Profit of £1.5m

 

But :

 

Player Transfers  :  predicted   0    : estimated actual   £19m     ( +£19m)

(Martins/Duff/Bassong/Beye)

 

Players Wages   :  predicted   £45m    : estimated actual   £34m  ( £11m)

 

Gate receipts    :  predicted    £22m    : estimated actual   £27m   (+£5m)

(based on 34,000 crowd)

 

Other Wages    : predicted      £8m     : estimated actual   £4m     (+£4m)

 

Tv revenue        : predicted      £5m     : estimated actual   £7.5m   (+£2.5m)

 

Catering/Shirt Sales/Sponsorship/SD perimeter advertising  -         (+£3.5m)

 

ie  £45.0m higher than predicted + above £1.5m = £46.5m over 7 months

 

 

Also consider :

 

Promotion brings in £51m extra ( £11.25m if not)

 

Staff reduction (about 200 people) and other overhead areas are still

being reduced to produce more savings. If Geremi removed from books

then another £1.5m saved

 

I've tried to ignore everything after 'Also consider'.

 

For some reason my post above didn't quote the text of the email received by Icke - here it is.

[Guest Roger Kint]

Good post quayside, very well explained as usual.

 

As with the other emails it produces more questions than answers. Very good point regarding the commercial(conveniently hidden in the figures) considering contracted out catering and reduced advertising/sponsor income going against that. Plus its pretty clear that corporate areas have been badly hit this season.

 

With regards to who provided these figures, are the 'Ashley/Llambias only tell lies' brigade going to rubbish them even though it backs up the NUST's theory or (far more sensibly) will they treat them with the sceptism they deserve?

[Happy Face]

Thanks Quayside.  Interesting stuff.

 

-   Have we actually taken £32m out of our wage bill since 2008?

 

I think it's not too far off. 

 

Owen and Viduka were £10m between them.

 

So that leaves £22m (or £423K per week) to save from Given, Martins, Milner, Nzogbia, Cacapa, Duff, Bassong, Beye, Gonzales and Xisco (assuming Santander pay his wage this year).  Did those 10 players have an average salary of £42,300 a week?  Probably not quite, but it must be a good slice of that.

 

Edit: Do "wages" mean only player wages and everyone else goes in other costs? Or is it a total wage bill which would include the 1000 staff that have lost their jobs?

[quayside]

Wages includes every employee of the club - so players, training staff, admin staff etc

[FrenchWilliam]

Did those 10 players have an average salary of £42,300 a week? 

 

Factor in appearance/goal/clean sheet bonuses too and it sounds fairly reasonable.

[Guest Roger Kint]

Thanks Quayside.  Interesting stuff.

 

-   Have we actually taken £32m out of our wage bill since 2008?

 

I think it's not too far off. 

 

Owen and Viduka were £10m between them.

 

So that leaves £22m (or £423K per week) to save from Given, Martins, Milner, Nzogbia, Cacapa, Duff, Bassong, Beye, Gonzales and Xisco (assuming Santander pay his wage this year).  Did those 10 players have an average salary of £42,300 a week?  Probably not quite, but it must be a good slice of that.

 

Edit: Do "wages" mean only player wages and everyone else goes in other costs? Or is it a total wage bill which would include the 1000 staff that have lost their jobs?

 

 

How do we know what the wages figure was at 30 June 2009 without the accounts? For all we know it could have increased in that year since 2008

[Liam Liam Liam O]

Did those 10 players have an average salary of £42,300 a week? 

 

Factor in appearance/goal/clean sheet bonuses too and it sounds fairly reasonable.

[Happy Face]

Thanks Quayside.  Interesting stuff.

 

-   Have we actually taken £32m out of our wage bill since 2008?

 

I think it's not too far off. 

 

Owen and Viduka were £10m between them.

 

So that leaves £22m (or £423K per week) to save from Given, Martins, Milner, Nzogbia, Cacapa, Duff, Bassong, Beye, Gonzales and Xisco (assuming Santander pay his wage this year).  Did those 10 players have an average salary of £42,300 a week?  Probably not quite, but it must be a good slice of that.

 

Edit: Do "wages" mean only player wages and everyone else goes in other costs? Or is it a total wage bill which would include the 1000 staff that have lost their jobs?

 

 

How do we know what the wages figure was at 30 June 2009 without the accounts? For all we know it could have increased in that year since 2008

 

Aye.  It's all guesswork until we see the accounts.

 

I think you're right though.  I'm sure I read that Ashley did increase the outgoing  player wages.  I remember it because it struck me as a ridiculous thing to have done if you're then going to blame everything on the extravegance of the previous owners.

[Parky]

We still owed money on Owen, Martins and Duff...So you can take a fair chunk of the incoming off straight away. Martins for instance we still owed £5m on.

[madras]

Thanks Quayside.  Interesting stuff.

 

-   Have we actually taken £32m out of our wage bill since 2008?

 

I think it's not too far off. 

 

Owen and Viduka were £10m between them.

 

So that leaves £22m (or £423K per week) to save from Given, Martins, Milner, Nzogbia, Cacapa, Duff, Bassong, Beye, Gonzales and Xisco (assuming Santander pay his wage this year).  Did those 10 players have an average salary of £42,300 a week?  Probably not quite, but it must be a good slice of that.

 

Edit: Do "wages" mean only player wages and everyone else goes in other costs? Or is it a total wage bill which would include the 1000 staff that have lost their jobs?

 

 

How do we know what the wages figure was at 30 June 2009 without the accounts? For all we know it could have increased in that year since 2008

 

Aye.  It's all guesswork until we see the accounts.

 

I think you're right though.  I'm sure I read that Ashley did increase the outgoing  player wages.  I remember it because it struck me as a ridiculous thing to have done if you're then going to blame everything on the extravegance of the previous owners.

it wasn't just the wages though was it. it was using future revenue to shore up their present with little or no thought as to what to do after that.

[Happy Face]

Thanks Quayside.  Interesting stuff.

 

-   Have we actually taken £32m out of our wage bill since 2008?

 

I think it's not too far off. 

 

Owen and Viduka were £10m between them.

 

So that leaves £22m (or £423K per week) to save from Given, Martins, Milner, Nzogbia, Cacapa, Duff, Bassong, Beye, Gonzales and Xisco (assuming Santander pay his wage this year).  Did those 10 players have an average salary of £42,300 a week?  Probably not quite, but it must be a good slice of that.

 

Edit: Do "wages" mean only player wages and everyone else goes in other costs? Or is it a total wage bill which would include the 1000 staff that have lost their jobs?

 

 

How do we know what the wages figure was at 30 June 2009 without the accounts? For all we know it could have increased in that year since 2008

 

Aye.  It's all guesswork until we see the accounts.

 

I think you're right though.  I'm sure I read that Ashley did increase the outgoing  player wages.  I remember it because it struck me as a ridiculous thing to have done if you're then going to blame everything on the extravegance of the previous owners.

it wasn't just the wages though was it. it was using future revenue to shore up their present with little or no thought as to what to do after that.

 

Absolutley.  But I'm specifically talking about them using wages as an excuse

 

“Mike inherited a very heavy wage bill – and still has some hefty players to pay"

 

Being a very strange thing to do if they knowingly added to it themselves.

[quayside]

Thanks Quayside.  Interesting stuff.

 

-   Have we actually taken £32m out of our wage bill since 2008?

 

I think it's not too far off. 

 

Owen and Viduka were £10m between them.

 

So that leaves £22m (or £423K per week) to save from Given, Martins, Milner, Nzogbia, Cacapa, Duff, Bassong, Beye, Gonzales and Xisco (assuming Santander pay his wage this year).  Did those 10 players have an average salary of £42,300 a week?  Probably not quite, but it must be a good slice of that.

 

Edit: Do "wages" mean only player wages and everyone else goes in other costs? Or is it a total wage bill which would include the 1000 staff that have lost their jobs?

Wages includes every employee of the club - so players, training staff, admin staff etc

 

Just to pick up on your point about 1000 staff losing their jobs - in 2008 the club only had 425 employees so if there were 1000 people who weren't retained then the vast majority of them weren't employees and their payment would not have been included in any wages figure.

 

Just as an aside Chris Mort was never an employee either, the club was billed by Freshfields for his services.

 

 

[Happy Face]

Thanks Quayside.  Interesting stuff.

 

-   Have we actually taken £32m out of our wage bill since 2008?

 

I think it's not too far off. 

 

Owen and Viduka were £10m between them.

 

So that leaves £22m (or £423K per week) to save from Given, Martins, Milner, Nzogbia, Cacapa, Duff, Bassong, Beye, Gonzales and Xisco (assuming Santander pay his wage this year).  Did those 10 players have an average salary of £42,300 a week?  Probably not quite, but it must be a good slice of that.

 

Edit: Do "wages" mean only player wages and everyone else goes in other costs? Or is it a total wage bill which would include the 1000 staff that have lost their jobs?

Wages includes every employee of the club - so players, training staff, admin staff etc

 

Just to pick up on your point about 1000 staff losing their jobs - in 2008 the club only had 425 employees so if there were 1000 people who weren't retained then the vast majority of them weren't employees and their payment would not have been included in any wages figure.

 

Just as an aside Chris Mort was never an employee either, the club was billed by Freshfields for his services.

 

Yeah,  I remembered the ~1500 employees number incorrectly from the season Ashley arrived.  Should have said 200.

 

http://www.footballeconomy.com/stats2/eng_newcastle.htm

[quayside]

We still owed money on Owen, Martins and Duff...So you can take a fair chunk of the incoming off straight away. Martins for instance we still owed £5m on.

 

Which is why the cash flow of any club is so hard to predict from basic P&L data, transfer fees frequently aren't settled straight away. Another factor is that chunks of season ticket revenue are received up front. And and even though a profit might be shown in the accounts it could still be necessary to pump cash in. The published club accounts always show a cash flow statement which is some help, although it is analysed under fairly general headings.

[Elliottman]

Arent they announcing the names of some big investors tomorrow?

[Happy Face]

Arent they announcing the names of some big investors tomorrow?

 

Cue torrents of abuse because the investors aren't loaded like Donald Trump

[OzzieMandias]

Arent they announcing the names of some big investors tomorrow?

 

Cue torrents of abuse because the investors aren't loaded like Donald Trump

 

I'm sure you can just invent some better ones for us.

[David Icke - Son of God]

Arent they announcing the names of some big investors tomorrow?

 

Apparently so.

 

I've heard someone from Sage is involved but that's just through the grapevine and will probably be total horseshite.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Arent they announcing the names of some big investors tomorrow?

 

Apparently so.

 

I've heard someone from Sage is involved but that's just through the grapevine and will probably be total horseshite.

 

If its Wiley then its horespoo. He has said many times that he has no interest in owning a football club

[Stu]

Arent they announcing the names of some big investors tomorrow?

 

Cue torrents of abuse because the investors aren't loaded like Donald Trump

 

I'm sure you can just invent some better ones for us.

 

 

To be fair to HF, he's just letting himself be misled by the NUST propaganda machine, he's not creating all of these myths (although he is doing a good job of making sure that they are thoroughly examined)

[Happy Face]

Arent they announcing the names of some big investors tomorrow?

 

Cue torrents of abuse because the investors aren't loaded like Donald Trump

 

I'm sure you can just invent some better ones for us.

 

 

To be fair to HF, he's just letting himself be misled by the NUST propaganda machine, he's not creating all of these myths (although he is doing a good job of making sure that they are thoroughly examined)

 

What myths?

[David Icke - Son of God]

Arent they announcing the names of some big investors tomorrow?

 

Apparently so.

 

I've heard someone from Sage is involved but that's just through the grapevine and will probably be total horseshite.

 

If its Wiley then its horespoo. He has said many times that he has no interest in owning a football club

 

No name was given as the lad I was chatting to couldn't remember, but assuming he hasn't been involved in Sage for quite some time I doubt Wylie (!?) is the person in question.

[Teasy]

The first thing that jumps out at me from those figures is the apparent predicted wage bill and predicted player sales.  Baring in mind we had a 70m wage bill before we sold those players, how on earth could the club predict a wage bill of £45m while also predicting that we'd sell no players?

 

They knew Owen, Viduka were out of contract which were the big hitters that drop it to £60m

 

Lovenkrands and Cacapa were out of contract too.  Given & Nzogbia were also on the payroll that contributed to the £70m so that drops you to £55m.

 

Not sure about the other £10m like.

 

Happy Face EDIT:  Damn it Stu! 

 

Given and N'Zogbia left but Nolan and Taylor came in, which would have left the £70m bill pretty much the same.  I agree the out of contract players going would drop it to between £55m and £60m, but like you say there's still at least £10m unaccounted for.

[Parky]

The first thing that jumps out at me from those figures is the apparent predicted wage bill and predicted player sales.  Baring in mind we had a 70m wage bill before we sold those players, how on earth could the club predict a wage bill of £45m while also predicting that we'd sell no players?

 

They knew Owen, Viduka were out of contract which were the big hitters that drop it to £60m

 

Lovenkrands and Cacapa were out of contract too.  Given & Nzogbia were also on the payroll that contributed to the £70m so that drops you to £55m.

 

Not sure about the other £10m like.

 

Happy Face EDIT:  Damn it Stu! 

 

Given and N'Zogbia left but Nolan and Taylor came in, which would have left the £70m bill pretty much the same.  I agree the out of contract players going would drop it to between £55m and £60m, but like you say there's still at least £10m unaccounted for.

 

Wise nicked it.

[Teasy]

Thanks Quayside.  Interesting stuff.

 

-   Have we actually taken £32m out of our wage bill since 2008?

 

I think it's not too far off. 

 

Owen and Viduka were £10m between them.

 

So that leaves £22m (or £423K per week) to save from Given, Martins, Milner, Nzogbia, Cacapa, Duff, Bassong, Beye, Gonzales and Xisco (assuming Santander pay his wage this year).  Did those 10 players have an average salary of £42,300 a week?  Probably not quite, but it must be a good slice of that.

 

Edit: Do "wages" mean only player wages and everyone else goes in other costs? Or is it a total wage bill which would include the 1000 staff that have lost their jobs?

 

If you're going to remove Given and N'Zogbia from the wage bill then you'd need to add Nolan and Taylor to it.  Personally I guessed at our player wage bill as dropping about £26m.  Think we should all just wait until the 2009 accounts come out and we'll have a much better idea.