Newcastle United Supporters Trust (NUST)

[Guest HGB1892]

I still think we know too little about Ashley's real intentions.  At the moment, we are led to believe that he keeps pumping in interest free loans.  Isn't that what Gaydamark did at Pompey until he decided he could not afford it anymore and then pulled out?  Yes Pompey spent more than they could afford but so did we and even though Ashley seemingly has made as many cutbacks as he can, he still has to keep loaning the club money.  Surely our debt is just getting bigger all the time and he will want those loans repaid in due course.  We may seem to be managing at the moment  but only because we are so dependent on him and that could change at anytime.

 

Stories about Ashley pumping cash in are just that though, leaked by Derek the Liar no doubt. I don't think the club's debt is anywhere near what it was. the money brought in from transfers and saving from the wages coupled with high attendances mean the club could run itself this season (not beyond unless we go up).

 

We can all speculate on the club finances but none of us know for sure what the economics of our current set up are. I could well believe he's had to provide some more funding, despite transfers and the wage bill cut. And FWIW, despite the other falsehoods,  whenever Ashley has been rumoured to have stuck money into the club it's been found to be true when the accounts have been published. But in any case we'll know a little bit more when the 2009 accounts are published shortly, although we'll have to wait another year for the 2010 finances.

 

The 2010 accounts will definitley be the more interesting ones to read. 

[PRL]

http://football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_5973383,00.html

 

Harris way beyond his brief in my view now. Seems quite the moron.

 

As for Pro / Anti Ashley. I was rabidly anti Ashley so I suppose I'm rather fickle with what I'm about to say...

 

I'm hoping, beyond rational hope, that what has happened in the last 18 months has taught Ashley a huge lesson and that he is finally beginning to 'get' how to run a football club. Taking us back up and spending a decent amount of cash would be a good way to confirm any commitment to the club (if he does have any long term ambitions to stay here, which is probably unlikely) but another way would be to invite NUST in. He said almost as he came in he needed outside investment and I don't think a supporters trust could immediately take over and run a club successfully stand-alone, so whilst it would be a rather uneasy marriage, if it gave Ashley what he wanted, in respect of a financial crutch, and gave us fans what we want - some kind of real input to the running of the club - then it might be worth a shot. If it didn't work out then we'd either rely on one party buying the other out or we'd be completely back to square one looking for new owners, but hopefully with the club in a far better position financially for anyone coming in. Unlikely I realise.

 

I've always felt that Ashley's mistakes came through naivety, rather than any desire for personal gain or malicious intent. He therefore has the capacity to learn from those mistakes and should be given another chance. Certainly there don't seem to be any wealthier alternatives on the horizon.

 

Any possibility of partnership between NUST and Ashley is a non-starter though. NUST crossed the boundary between criticism and abuse, and the information they were giving to the public seemed, at best, unreliable. They cannot work together in an atmosphere of trust.

 

 

Was just about to post that as a response to the post you've quoted.

 

Whether it was intentional or not, they've put themselves in an "all or nothing" position in my view.

 

Yep, agreed, that is likely the case, although with that said you just never know with Newcastle United or Mike Ashley. I certainly don't for one minute believe that this will happen, but should it I wouldn't be that surprised. It could be argued his treatment of Keegan (and by proxy the fans) means that there would never be the level of trust required to work together, but sometimes needs must. If Ashley needs cash and fans want in, it might be the only way.

[Benwell Lad]

http://football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_5973383,00.html

 

Harris way beyond his brief in my view now. Seems quite the moron.

 

As for Pro / Anti Ashley. I was rabidly anti Ashley so I suppose I'm rather fickle with what I'm about to say...

 

I'm hoping, beyond rational hope, that what has happened in the last 18 months has taught Ashley a huge lesson and that he is finally beginning to 'get' how to run a football club. Taking us back up and spending a decent amount of cash would be a good way to confirm any commitment to the club (if he does have any long term ambitions to stay here, which is probably unlikely) but another way would be to invite NUST in. He said almost as he came in he needed outside investment and I don't think a supporters trust could immediately take over and run a club successfully stand-alone, so whilst it would be a rather uneasy marriage, if it gave Ashley what he wanted, in respect of a financial crutch, and gave us fans what we want - some kind of real input to the running of the club - then it might be worth a shot. If it didn't work out then we'd either rely on one party buying the other out or we'd be completely back to square one looking for new owners, but hopefully with the club in a far better position financially for anyone coming in. Unlikely I realise.

 

I've always felt that Ashley's mistakes came through naivety, rather than any desire for personal gain or malicious intent. He therefore has the capacity to learn from those mistakes and should be given another chance. Certainly there don't seem to be any wealthier alternatives on the horizon.

 

Any possibility of partnership between NUST and Ashley is a non-starter though. NUST crossed the boundary between criticism and abuse, and the information they were giving to the public seemed, at best, unreliable. They cannot work together in an atmosphere of trust.

 

 

Was just about to post that as a response to the post you've quoted.

 

Whether it was intentional or not, they've put themselves in an "all or nothing" position in my view.

 

Yep, agreed, that is likely the case, although with that said you just never know with Newcastle United or Mike Ashley. I certainly don't for one minute believe that this will happen, but should it I wouldn't be that surprised. It could be argued his treatment of Keegan (and by proxy the fans) means that there would never be the level of trust required to work together, but sometimes needs must. If Ashley needs cash and fans want in, it might be the only way.

 

Fan representation and fan involvement/investment could be a good thing and I'm sure Ashley has previously said they'd welcome it.

 

I no longer think this can come from the NUST. 

Unless they do something tangible pretty soon, it's going to look like they have been mis-leading fans along with some of their friends in the press. They just seem to lack any credibility.

[PRL]

Ah ok, yeah, I agree with that. Might need to be under a different banner, although let's be fair it's likely to be a lot of the same suspects one would imagine.

[bealios]

When Ashley spoke about local involvement a couple of years ago I think he had local businessmen more in mind, along the lines of Barry Moat etc. I don't think he ever intended to have to work with a supporter group. Working and co-ownership with one is a hell of a lot different than the other.

 

Whilst I wouldn't rule out one day the supporters having a small stake, in terms of decision making, unless you get to around 25% they will have very little say in how the club is run. Even then you have very little sway in a situation where the other owner owns 75%.

[Cronky]

I'm all in favour of consultation with fans, but I'm pessimistic about how fan representation on the Board of a major club would work out, even if it wasn't a group that was overtly hostile to the owner, in the way that NUST are.

 

In practice, the main responsibility of a Board (amongst others) is to guard the financial welfare of the club, and the interest of the fan is to watch the best possible group of players. In theory, that should all come together in the middle, but each group would be approaching things from a different direction.

 

There is some blurring at the edges, but at the end of the day, one is a seller and the other is a customer. A disunited Board isn't going to do anyone any good.

[Stu]

Ah ok, yeah, I agree with that. Might need to be under a different banner, although let's be fair it's likely to be a lot of the same suspects one would imagine.

 

NOFC tbh

[Liam Liam Liam O]

 

A GROUP of rich and well-connected Manchester United fans sat around a table in a London law office last week.

Nine of them, all well off from dealings in the financial markets, decided they wanted to save their club from the Glazers.

 

They gathered against the backdrop of fan unrest at Old Trafford and mass protest against the American family's debt-laden ownership.

 

Hell, they even went to the trouble of asking for the backing of the Manchester United Supporters Trust, who have so far not committed.

 

Then, when news of the revolution 'leaked' late on Monday night, the saviours were called the Red Knights.

 

Sound like a fairytale? That's because it is.

 

Led by football financier Keith Harris, Red Knights have less chance of buying England's biggest club than Orville has of flying.

 

Orville's puppet master - another Keith Harris - is no relation to the self-styled leader of the Red Knights.

 

But when it comes to pulling strings in takeovers, lifelong United fan Harris is almost always quoted.

 

In fact, if you Google his name alongside football you will get 84,000 search results in under a second.

 

It's safe to say that here is a man who likes the sound of his own voice. Last Friday, it was Harris who headed the round table of Red Knights.

 

Among them, were some of the brightest men in the UK banking industry.

 

Jim O'Neill is head of global economic research at investment bank Goldman Sachs. A close friend of Alex Ferguson, he was briefly on the United board.

 

Mark Rawlinson is a senior partner in law firm Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer. He was an advisor to United during the Glazer takeover five years ago.

 

Paul Marshall is co-founder of one of the City's most influential hedge funds. Then there's Richard Hytner, another high-flier, who is deputy chairman of Saatchi and Saatchi's global company.

 

Each of them have two things in common: They are United fans but don't have anywhere near enough money to buy out the Glazers.

 

We could name more but the picture is already pretty clear - they're all faceless.

 

Their grand plan: To find 40 rich United fans to chip in £20million each for a takeover. Eureka, I hear you cry!

 

Simply find, recruit and persuade JUST the 40 to spare that in the middle of the worst recession for 50 years.

 

That only gets the Red Knights up to £800m. That's OK, as apparently if they raise that, they are confident they can borrow £200m.

 

But hang on, isn't debt the reason they want to buy it from Malcolm Glazer?

 

On that matter, yesterday it was announced the debt dropped from £538.1m to £507.5m.

 

Red Football Ltd, the Glazers' holding company for United, revealed turnover was up 19 per cent for the six months up to December, compared to the year before.

 

Then there's the small case of Red Knights' bid being £200m short of the £1.2bn current value. And who will actually run the club if they gain control?

 

Red Knights would boldly put themselves up for that task on the basis that the whole thing was their idea.

 

Let's get this straight. Nine fans want to buy the club with other people's money.

 

As one City expert said yesterday: "They've as much chance of buying United as my gran has of playing."

 

But that's OK, as long as Harris gets a chance to promote himself as the Svengali of football takeovers.

 

He was involved in Randy Lerner's Aston Villa buyout and Thaksin Shinawatra's at Manchester City. More recently, he failed to find buyers for Everton and Newcastle.

 

This is not the first time he has claimed an interest in United - it's the third.

 

So what chance of him leading the club out of the Glazer era to a promised land?

 

Well, let's just say the Red Knights are more likely to turn out to be Red Dwarves.

 

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/2875432/Red-Knights-More-like-Red-Dwarves.html

[David Icke - Son of God]

I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned that the elections are now taking place.

 

http://www.nust.org.uk/nominee-statements/

[ToonTastic]

I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned that the elections are now taking place.

 

http://www.nust.org.uk/nominee-statements/

 

It's only for trust members nothing to do with the club really.

[Stu]

Aye, it'd be like having a thread about the NOFC team selection...

[Liam Liam Liam O]

I think a lot of people have become a bit apathetic towards the Supporters Trust.

 

It's been a few months since we've had anything tangible from them in terms of their "ultimate aim" to own the club, despite their vigourous efforts to get people on board in the first place.

 

Promises of high profile backers & lists of IFA's haven't materialised & furthermore it's now under 4 weeks until the end of the tax year, meaning people are going to be making their final investment decisions for 09/10 and committing their cash elsewhere.

 

If the 100% ownership plan is being called off or even just shelved for now, they should come out & say so, so that people can focus on what they're doing as an "ordinary Supporters Trust" without them being judged on an aim which looks increasingly unlikely to happen.

[Tooj]

I think a lot of people have become a bit apathetic towards the Supporters Trust. 

 

It's been a few months since we've had anything tangible from them in terms of their "ultimate aim" to own the club, despite their vigourous efforts to get people on board in the first place.

 

Promises of high profile backers & lists of IFA's haven't materialised & furthermore it's now under 4 weeks until the end of the tax year, meaning people are going to be making their final investment decisions for 09/10 and committing their cash elsewhere.

 

If the 100% ownership plan is being called off or even just shelved for now, they should come out & say so, so that people can focus on what they're doing as an "ordinary Supporters Trust" without them being judged on an aim which looks increasingly unlikely to happen.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I think a lot of people have become a bit apathetic towards the Supporters Trust. 

 

It's been a few months since we've had anything tangible from them in terms of their "ultimate aim" to own the club, despite their vigourous efforts to get people on board in the first place.

 

Promises of high profile backers & lists of IFA's haven't materialised & furthermore it's now under 4 weeks until the end of the tax year, meaning people are going to be making their final investment decisions for 09/10 and committing their cash elsewhere.

 

If the 100% ownership plan is being called off or even just shelved for now, they should come out & say so, so that people can focus on what they're doing as an "ordinary Supporters Trust" without them being judged on an aim which looks increasingly unlikely to happen.

 

Yep, agree with that and I'm all for them.

[Guest]

What exactly is next for them by the way? If they can't buy the club, there's surely no way they can try and interact with Ashley/Llambias etc given how they've spent almost their whole time trying to oust them and criticising them. As a supporters group who deal with away travel, arrange talk-ins, etc. I think they could have something more useful and will gain a lot more support.

[bealios]

What exactly is next for them by the way? If they can't buy the club, there's surely no way they can try and interact with Ashley/Llambias etc given how they've spent almost their whole time trying to oust them and criticising them. As a supporters group who deal with away travel, arrange talk-ins, etc. I think they could have something more useful and will gain a lot more support.

 

They still have a decent size membership, so they do what  they should have been doing all along. Aim to get bigger, be properly representative, and focus on things which benefit fans such as the absurd decision to move the Plymouth game etc...

[summerof69]

http://www.nust.org.uk/spiderman-tribute

 

 

Not a bad idea, imo.

[David Icke - Son of God]

http://www.nust.org.uk/spiderman-tribute

 

 

Not a bad idea, imo.

 

I'd prefer them to spend more time publicising the trouble at Boro.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

http://www.nust.org.uk/spiderman-tribute

 

 

Not a bad idea, imo.

 

I'd prefer them to spend more time publicising the trouble at Boro.

 

Or write something updating us on how their bid to buy the club is going.

[Guest malandro]

What next - NUST organise a Mexican wave?

 

NUST are going to have serious membership problems in a year or two if they don’t get their act together.

 

[Cronky]

What next - NUST organise a Mexican wave?

 

 

It's a bit of a climbdown - from let's raise £100 million and buy the club to let's all put on spiderman masks.

[David Icke - Son of God]

What next - NUST organise a Mexican wave?

 

NUST are going to have serious membership problems in a year or two if they don’t get their act together.

 

 

I can't see them having membership problems. They're very well supported already and we all know how willing our fans are to unthinkingly put their hands in their pockets so long as whatever they're buying has a black and white tinge to it.

 

Personally I'll renew as a tenner is fuck all, I want to see what the elections bring and if I don't like it I'd get more hands on. I don't particularly care about the buying the club, it was a nice idea but that's never been the be all and end all for me, but I want to see them concentrate on helping the fans on a more basic levels and the best way to do that is try and effect change from the inside. You can throw a lot of things at NUST but it's never been a closed shop for those who want to get involved.

[Guest Brummiemag]

For some strange reason, quite a few on here seem to want NUST to fail, hence the sarcastic questions about how the bid is going.  Its noticeable that it tends to be the same people who constantly defend Ashley. 

 

I will happily renew my membership whether the bid is successful or not. Any fan based organisation that aims to improve the club and represent supporters interests has to be a good thing in my opinion. 

[binnsy]

Seems they can't win whatever they do and yes Brummiemag it does always seem to be the same people doing the sniping.  Can't believe some people are having a go regarding the spiderman masks,  its a bit of light hearted fun in honour of Jonas and raising money for a great cause in the Sir Bobby Robson Foundation.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

For some strange reason, quite a few on here seem to want NUST to fail, hence the sarcastic questions about how the bid is going. Its noticeable that it tends to be the same people who constantly defend Ashley.

 

I will happily renew my membership whether the bid is successful or not. Any fan based organisation that aims to improve the club and represent supporters interests has to be a good thing in my opinion.

 

All most people want is some form of communication from them, an update on what's happening either way. It's been a fair while since there's been one.

 

Seems a reasonable enough request if they want to "represent supporters interests" as you say.