Why Were We Not Sold?

[TooonDoom]

We are not in the premiership ruling out play thing for a billionaire.

 

We are sadled with debt. Losing money month on month needing investment to get any chance of a return.  Ruling out those looking to make money.

 

That leaves people who care about Newcastle and are willing to probably lose money for the sake of the club. None of those exist who are rich enough.

[Guest Redheugh]

Ashley has f***ed the potential buyers around, frequently moving the goalposts.

 

This

 

[Colos Short and Curlies]

The price of the club is £80m. There is no payment to Ashley afterwards or anything else, no instalments, no payment on promotion. The £80m is actually the price of buying Ashley's loan, the shares are acquired for £1.

 

The reason nobody bought to club so far is that there are two ways to buy an asset like this, with bank funding, or with spare cash. Those with spare cash are the uber-rich, who buy a club as a status symbol, not a work in progress. So they want a Premier League club, not a Championship club.

 

The other way involves raising finance from a bank or other fund, and as well as being difficult in the current climate, the club doesn't have anything to offer as valuable security. This is why Moat's bid stalled.

 

Can't agree with the work in progress statement.

 

There are 3 clubs who are status symbols (Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal)(4 if you include Liverpool but they need a stadium and a fair wedge spent on the first team but you get the history), the rest are all work in progress. Are we really any further away from Champions League football now than Man City were last season if you are going to throw hundreds of millions at it?

[Mick]

Because Ashley never really wanted to sell it, just wanted to appear like he was.

 

Nobody met the asking price so we don't know that he didn't want to sell it.

[themanupstairs]

The price of the club is £80m. There is no payment to Ashley afterwards or anything else, no instalments, no payment on promotion. The £80m is actually the price of buying Ashley's loan, the shares are acquired for £1.

 

The reason nobody bought to club so far is that there are two ways to buy an asset like this, with bank funding, or with spare cash. Those with spare cash are the uber-rich, who buy a club as a status symbol, not a work in progress. So they want a Premier League club, not a Championship club.

 

The other way involves raising finance from a bank or other fund, and as well as being difficult in the current climate, the club doesn't have anything to offer as valuable security. This is why Moat's bid stalled.

 

Can't agree with the work in progress statement.

 

There are 3 clubs who are status symbols (Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal)(4 if you include Liverpool but they need a stadium and a fair wedge spent on the first team but you get the history), the rest are all work in progress. Are we really any further away from Champions League football now than Man City were last season if you are going to throw hundreds of millions at it?

 

[Guest Brummiemag]

As far as I'm aware (and I've asked about this on here before) there is no evidence that Ashley is prepared to write off the loan of £120 million that is owed to him. 

 

Surely this is a massive factor in the failure to sell the club and also has deeply disturbing implications for the future as no one is going to want to pay £80 million and then take on a further £120 million in loans on top of all the other problems the club has. As I've said many times, Ashley has set the club back by 10 years, probably more

[midds]

Unofficially we're still on the market imo. If someone comes up with the cash, Ashley will sell us regardless of his statement last week.

[Guest Redheugh]

Unofficially we'ew still on the market imo. If someone comes up with the cash, Ashley will sell us regardless of his statement last week.

 

 

[Matt]

As far as I'm aware (and I've asked about this on here before) there is no evidence that Ashley is prepared to write off the loan of £120 million that is owed to him. 

 

Surely this is a massive factor in the failure to sell the club and also has deeply disturbing implications for the future as no one is going to want to pay £80 million and then take on a further £120 million in loans on top of all the other problems the club has. As I've said many times, Ashley has set the club back by 10 years, probably more

 

An investor would not see that as debt though- they would see it effectively as part of Ashley's investment in the business.  Any deal would have to ensure that effective control is with the prospective buyer- no-one would agree to a deal which left them still at Ashley's beck and call.

 

In deals like this, all major debt is usually mandatorily repaid. When people talk about the value of the club, they are talking in terms of the value of the equity (nowt) plus the value of the debt (which is being discounted if the £80m is correct).

 

An asking price of £80m with the loan in place means you're asking £200m. They wouldn't have even had a sniff of a bid on that basis.

[Cronky]

I think the major problem is that even having shed some players after relegation, the club still needs to be subsidised by £20 million each year to break even. If we don't get promoted this season, the income will drop and so the cash-flow pressure will increase. There's a danger of a downward spiral.

 

Even if you invest money, there's no guarantee of promotion. Bad luck with injuries can make all the difference.

 

In the current economic climate, banks don't want to take a risk. Moat was keen, but really had a problem raising the cash.

 

I don't think Ashley's loan was the problem. I think he was prepared to write it off. I've never seen it mentioned in any newspapers - only internet forums.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

I think the major problem is that even having shed some players after relegation, the club still needs to be subsidised by £20 million each year to break even. If we don't get promoted this season, the income will drop and so the cash-flow pressure will increase. There's a danger of a downward spiral.

 

Even if you invest money, there's no guarantee of promotion. Bad luck with injuries can make all the difference.

 

In the current economic climate, banks don't want to take a risk. Moat was keen, but really had a problem raising the cash.

 

I don't think Ashley's loan was the problem. I think he was prepared to write it off. I've never seen it mentioned in any newspapers - only internet forums.

 

I honestly don't think Moat ever got close to subsidising the deal.

[madras]

I think the major problem is that even having shed some players after relegation, the club still needs to be subsidised by £20 million each year to break even. If we don't get promoted this season, the income will drop and so the cash-flow pressure will increase. There's a danger of a downward spiral.

 

Even if you invest money, there's no guarantee of promotion. Bad luck with injuries can make all the difference.

 

In the current economic climate, banks don't want to take a risk. Moat was keen, but really had a problem raising the cash.

 

I don't think Ashley's loan was the problem. I think he was prepared to write it off. I've never seen it mentioned in any newspapers - only internet forums.

 

I honestly don't think Moat ever got close to subsidising the deal.

it wouldn't surprise me to hear this being resurrected in the next few weeks.

[midds]

I think the major problem is that even having shed some players after relegation, the club still needs to be subsidised by £20 million each year to break even. If we don't get promoted this season, the income will drop and so the cash-flow pressure will increase. There's a danger of a downward spiral.

 

Even if you invest money, there's no guarantee of promotion. Bad luck with injuries can make all the difference.

 

In the current economic climate, banks don't want to take a risk. Moat was keen, but really had a problem raising the cash.

 

I don't think Ashley's loan was the problem. I think he was prepared to write it off. I've never seen it mentioned in any newspapers - only internet forums.

 

I honestly don't think Moat ever got close to subsidising the deal.

it wouldn't surprise me to hear this being resurrected in the next few weeks.

 

Do you know something we don't?

[madras]

I think the major problem is that even having shed some players after relegation, the club still needs to be subsidised by £20 million each year to break even. If we don't get promoted this season, the income will drop and so the cash-flow pressure will increase. There's a danger of a downward spiral.

 

Even if you invest money, there's no guarantee of promotion. Bad luck with injuries can make all the difference.

 

In the current economic climate, banks don't want to take a risk. Moat was keen, but really had a problem raising the cash.

 

I don't think Ashley's loan was the problem. I think he was prepared to write it off. I've never seen it mentioned in any newspapers - only internet forums.

 

I honestly don't think Moat ever got close to subsidising the deal.

it wouldn't surprise me to hear this being resurrected in the next few weeks.

 

Do you know something we don't?

loads.

 

 

 

nowt to do with this though.

[Spider Jerusalem]

The reason that we haven't been sold is that nobody ever came up with the booty unfortunately.

 

There has never been any indication from the lying cunts in charge that there we have been close to being sold, and an acceptable offer has ever bee recieved. None whatsoever...

 

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/nufc/newcastle-united-news/2009/07/06/newcastle-united-receive-bids-of-100m-for-club-72703-24086316/

[midds]

I think the major problem is that even having shed some players after relegation, the club still needs to be subsidised by £20 million each year to break even. If we don't get promoted this season, the income will drop and so the cash-flow pressure will increase. There's a danger of a downward spiral.

 

Even if you invest money, there's no guarantee of promotion. Bad luck with injuries can make all the difference.

 

In the current economic climate, banks don't want to take a risk. Moat was keen, but really had a problem raising the cash.

 

I don't think Ashley's loan was the problem. I think he was prepared to write it off. I've never seen it mentioned in any newspapers - only internet forums.

 

I honestly don't think Moat ever got close to subsidising the deal.

it wouldn't surprise me to hear this being resurrected in the next few weeks.

 

Do you know something we don't?

loads.

 

 

 

nowt to do with this though.

 

 

[samag]

I think the major problem is that even having shed some players after relegation, the club still needs to be subsidised by £20 million each year to break even. If we don't get promoted this season, the income will drop and so the cash-flow pressure will increase. There's a danger of a downward spiral.

 

Even if you invest money, there's no guarantee of promotion. Bad luck with injuries can make all the difference.

 

In the current economic climate, banks don't want to take a risk. Moat was keen, but really had a problem raising the cash.

 

I don't think Ashley's loan was the problem. I think he was prepared to write it off. I've never seen it mentioned in any newspapers - only internet forums.

 

that could be the main problem after paying 80 million fot the club, then having to spend anthor 20 million to keep the club running, then having to find money for new players.

[Cronky]

I think the major problem is that even having shed some players after relegation, the club still needs to be subsidised by £20 million each year to break even. If we don't get promoted this season, the income will drop and so the cash-flow pressure will increase. There's a danger of a downward spiral.

 

Even if you invest money, there's no guarantee of promotion. Bad luck with injuries can make all the difference.

 

In the current economic climate, banks don't want to take a risk. Moat was keen, but really had a problem raising the cash.

 

I don't think Ashley's loan was the problem. I think he was prepared to write it off. I've never seen it mentioned in any newspapers - only internet forums.

 

that could be the main problem after paying 80 million fot the club, then having to spend anthor 20 million to keep the club running, then having to find money for new players.

 

Yeah, the purchase price is a separate issue. If the club holds its value, then you can always recoup your outlay by selling it on.

 

However, if you're having to subsidise the running costs of a club whose value then goes into decline, you're in the classic throwing good money after bad scenario. Not an attractive idea for whoever's providing the finance.

[Mick]

 

£80m or £100m- it's a stratospheric price for an organisation that needs a lot of investment to get back to operating on an even keel at the top level. I cannot fathom the rationale of people who think it's a bargain of some kind.

 

As for Portsmouth- they were sold for a nominal fee due to the need to pay down imminent debt repayments and to meet future obligations.

 

If we got promoted we'd need considerable investment to have a strong chance of staying up. Ashley thinks that if we go up we'll be the whole package, ready to sell off the shelf- in fact we'd need a major squad overhaul and a considerable upgrade to the talent on the coaching side.

 

Ashley thinks he will get a better price as he thinks we will go up. It's far from a certain conclusion- one more year in the championship and our perceived value is zero.

 

 

 

Arsenal had to pay £390 million to build a 60,000 seater stadium, we have a ready made 52,000 seater stadium thrown in with the price.  We don't own the land which the ground has been built on but for football purposes that doesn't matter as we will not be looking to sell it as we couldn't play without it.  If we owned the land we could sell it and move to cheaper land to build a new one but a new build would cost more than the land would be worth.

 

As for Portsmouth, yes they were given away, they still have debts which could be up to £40 million, they look like playing in the Championship next season and they have a shit ground which would cost a fortune to replace, I don’t see what they have going for them yet they have been taken over twice this season.

 

[merlin]

I would say that the reason the club is still owned by Ashley is basically that he wants it that way - for now..

 

In addition, there is the matter of the loan he has made but the factor that worries me the most is that, as far as we know, there has been nobody REALLY wealthy who has shown a real interest in buying the club.

 

There may now be another factor at work although this is difficult to prove and that is that the NE is now seen as a permanent economic backwater in future years ; this would mean that because the disposable income in the area(and the population)is expected to keep falling, any prospective buyer from overseas is being warned off by his economic 'advisers'.

 

Lets face it, the club's great days were in the times when the NE had shipbuilding, steel, mining and many more major industries. Since all that ended there has been a steady drift of people out of the region to areas like London(Manchester is probably the furthest north that Southerners think matters)where the UKs  current staple industry - Financial Services - is situated.

 

Following the recession, even THAT is now threatened but it is a sad fact that the SE is where the money/jobs are for now...and that is why a club like Spurs(who cannot command the fan base that Newcastle currently has)are planning for a 56,000 stadium and why they WOULD be sold for a large amount if they came on the market.

 

I realise that this won't be a popular viewpoint, but I'm afraid there is some truth in it - we are a club that has failed to punch its weight for 50 years domestically, whereas the likes of Man C, Spurs etc have won trophies in that time. We had a chance to break the mould in 96 but it didn't happen and the club has gone backwards since ; the World is also a much different place since the recession and the power is shifting from West to East so any prospective buyer will want a club that is going to be based in the most prosperous areas of the UK, which , unfortunately, are going to get smaller and closer to Europe.

 

I take no pleasure in posting this, but I see it as a reality. It is probably time to accept that being in the Prem is as good as its going to get - it could be worse.

[Mick]

I’ve thought about Geographical location and dismissed it.  Our location shouldn't matter in the slightest as foreign owners turn up for matches when they feel like it and return to whichever foreign country they live in at the end of the game.

 

Our income is down because of the way the club has been run for the last 5 years and if the clubs fortunes changed on the pitch then that would be reflected off it, this club has great potential when run right.  Our current situation is because of poor management and it's not something which has to continue. 

 

If the club is run correctly then everything else will fall into place.

[madras]

 

£80m or £100m- it's a stratospheric price for an organisation that needs a lot of investment to get back to operating on an even keel at the top level. I cannot fathom the rationale of people who think it's a bargain of some kind.

 

As for Portsmouth- they were sold for a nominal fee due to the need to pay down imminent debt repayments and to meet future obligations.

 

If we got promoted we'd need considerable investment to have a strong chance of staying up. Ashley thinks that if we go up we'll be the whole package, ready to sell off the shelf- in fact we'd need a major squad overhaul and a considerable upgrade to the talent on the coaching side.

 

Ashley thinks he will get a better price as he thinks we will go up. It's far from a certain conclusion- one more year in the championship and our perceived value is zero.

 

 

 

Arsenal had to pay £390 million to build a 60,000 seater stadium, we have a ready made 52,000 seater stadium thrown in with the price.  We don't own the land which the ground has been built on but for football purposes that doesn't matter as we will not be looking to sell it as we couldn't play without it.  If we owned the land we could sell it and move to cheaper land to build a new one but a new build would cost more than the land would be worth.

 

As for Portsmouth, yes they were given away, they still have debts which could be up to £40 million, they look like playing in the Championship next season and they have a s*** ground which would cost a fortune to replace, I don’t see what they have going for them yet they have been taken over twice this season.

 

you've answered your own question with the portsmouth bit.

 

it's one thing to be taken over but it's another for it to be a good takeover.

 

re arsenal....that is the price of a club with world wide appeal,doing well and well run financially....we aren't.

[bealios]

 

 

£80m or £100m- it's a stratospheric price for an organisation that needs a lot of investment to get back to operating on an even keel at the top level. I cannot fathom the rationale of people who think it's a bargain of some kind.

 

As for Portsmouth- they were sold for a nominal fee due to the need to pay down imminent debt repayments and to meet future obligations.

 

If we got promoted we'd need considerable investment to have a strong chance of staying up. Ashley thinks that if we go up we'll be the whole package, ready to sell off the shelf- in fact we'd need a major squad overhaul and a considerable upgrade to the talent on the coaching side.

 

Ashley thinks he will get a better price as he thinks we will go up. It's far from a certain conclusion- one more year in the championship and our perceived value is zero.

 

 

 

Arsenal had to pay £390 million to build a 60,000 seater stadium, we have a ready made 52,000 seater stadium thrown in with the price.  We don't own the land which the ground has been built on but for football purposes that doesn't matter as we will not be looking to sell it as we couldn't play without it.  If we owned the land we could sell it and move to cheaper land to build a new one but a new build would cost more than the land would be worth.

As for Portsmouth, yes they were given away, they still have debts which could be up to £40 million, they look like playing in the Championship next season and they have a s*** ground which would cost a fortune to replace, I don’t see what they have going for them yet they have been taken over twice this season.

 

 

The stadium bit is also a bit more complicated than that, in that we have to pay a rent up to the Council for the stadium land, which is based upon a certain % of matchday turnover. So the club is a tenant under a lease and has to pay rent to its landlord, which makes the stadium less valuable than the Emirates. The reason why we we can't sell the ground and move somewhere cheaper is not that we don't own the land, its because the lease says that the use is restricted to use as a sports ground, and there isn't a lot of demand in the region for a 52,000 seater sports ground other than Newcastle, so effectively you can't really sell it, hence why its difficult to raise bank funding for a purchaser - there isn't a big enough asset to offer as security.

 

[ohmelads]

I would say that the reason the club is still owned by Ashley is basically that he wants it that way - for now..

 

In addition, there is the matter of the loan he has made but the factor that worries me the most is that, as far as we know, there has been nobody REALLY wealthy who has shown a real interest in buying the club.

 

There may now be another factor at work although this is difficult to prove and that is that the NE is now seen as a permanent economic backwater in future years ; this would mean that because the disposable income in the area(and the population)is expected to keep falling, any prospective buyer from overseas is being warned off by his economic 'advisers'.

 

Lets face it, the club's great days were in the times when the NE had shipbuilding, steel, mining and many more major industries. Since all that ended there has been a steady drift of people out of the region to areas like London(Manchester is probably the furthest north that Southerners think matters)where the UKs  current staple industry - Financial Services - is situated.

 

Following the recession, even THAT is now threatened but it is a sad fact that the SE is where the money/jobs are for now...and that is why a club like Spurs(who cannot command the fan base that Newcastle currently has)are planning for a 56,000 stadium and why they WOULD be sold for a large amount if they came on the market.

 

I realise that this won't be a popular viewpoint, but I'm afraid there is some truth in it - we are a club that has failed to punch its weight for 50 years domestically, whereas the likes of Man C, Spurs etc have won trophies in that time. We had a chance to break the mould in 96 but it didn't happen and the club has gone backwards since ; the World is also a much different place since the recession and the power is shifting from West to East so any prospective buyer will want a club that is going to be based in the most prosperous areas of the UK, which , unfortunately, are going to get smaller and closer to Europe.

 

I take no pleasure in posting this, but I see it as a reality. It is probably time to accept that being in the Prem is as good as its going to get - it could be worse.

 

A bleak assessment but one which rings true if you look at the continent. Wealthy or major cities dominate football, from Milan to Rome, from Madrid to Barcelona. Other clubs such as Juventus and Liverpool are from smaller cities but nevertheless much bigger cities than Newcastle, and are firmly established over decades as top clubs dating back to a previous era. Any buyer knows that in a city like that he has potentially millions of fans within distance of his stadium and club shops, as well as the money coming in from fans around the globe, TV revenue and all the rest of it. In a city like Newcastle, about the 20th biggest in England with a limited catchment area around it and a long way from any major metropolis, perhaps people think our potential for growth is limited.

 

Having said that, as Mike says Portsmouth has a lot of the same issues and has been sold twice this season. As you said at the start of your post, the most likely explanation is that he wasn't intent on selling yet. There were offers, he just didn't accept them.

[Filflop1]

The reason is probably Ashley, I mean would you want to do businesss with him the mans a joke, he was meant to upset the Arabs once you piss one off word will get round and none of em will do business with you.