Guest Phil K Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Frankly, I'm amazed we are where we are due to - let's be fair - performances at best no better than last years horror show. I'll take the fact we're top - greedily snatch it in fact -because our performances deserve no better than upper-mid table in my humble opinion. If we do go up, and it's a big if, going by performances - we would need massive reconstruction not to come straight back down. We need to avoid the play-offs at all costs. "We have a couple of players who can finish" ? Nolan and who ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I think everyone expected this league to be easier than it has been, even if they didn't admit it to themselves. If not then no-one would be disappointed at all with what's happened so far as we're top of the league without hitting our best. I happen to agree that a lot of our players have been found out as being severely limited. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 What i'm trying to understand is what has changed people's expectations over the past 15 games and i'm struggling to find one which doesnt look like blind arrogance. Everyone would have taken 30 points, 2 clear after 15 games at the start of the season. They would have been delighted. So what has changed? We knew our squad was full of average players. Have we seen them transformed this season, showing superior passing, movement, technical ability than those around them? No. Have we seen an utterly shit league devoid of ability? No, we've seen a much poorer league than we are used to but the same teams who were competing hard and taking points of each other in this league last season are doing it again this season. The league hasnt changed. If you think our players are streets ahead of the competition then this doesnt tally with the evidence acquired by watching us and others in this league. You get a sense our players could do better because of who they are on paper, not because they present you with persuasive evidence on the pitch. I think it is more frustration than anything else for a couple of reasons: Firstly as Gorilla pointed out in this thread, we have a "quality" squad, just not a very well ballanced one. One or two decent wide players in the summer would have seen us waltz this league imo. Secondly, it probably pisses people off to watch our midfield which is probably paid more than most Championship teams in entirety being constantly out-passed and out-run by more or less every team we line up against. Hence the complaints about the performances I suspect. It's partly down to personnel, partly down to cock-eyed team selections. It would be nice to se some method to the madness but there have been only a few games where we have looked in control. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Frankly, I'm amazed we are where we are due to - let's be fair - performances at best no better than last years horror show. I'll take the fact we're top - greedily snatch it in fact -because our performances deserve no better than upper-mid table in my humble opinion. If we do go up, and it's a big if, going by performances - we would need massive reconstruction not to come straight back down. We need to avoid the play-offs at all costs. "We have a couple of players who can finish" ? Nolan and who ? Nolan and whoever people are supporting out of Carroll and Ranger. It was a diplomatic 'couple'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I think everyone expected this league to be easier than it has been, even if they didn't admit it to themselves. If not then no-one would be disappointed at all with what's happened so far as we're top of the league without hitting our best. I happen to agree that a lot of our players have been found out as being severely limited. I think everyone expected this league to be easier than it has been, even if they didn't admit it to themselves. If not then no-one would be disappointed at all with what's happened so far as we're top of the league without hitting our best. I happen to agree that a lot of our players have been found out as being severely limited. Agreed. We do indeed have players who are far and away better than those in teams currently below us; Enrique, Collicini, S Taylor, Harper etc. but we equally have some players that wouldn't get near the first XI of those just below us; Butt, Geremi, Harewood etc. and this balancing act is why we're looking so shaky at times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I think everyone expected this league to be easier than it has been, even if they didn't admit it to themselves. If not then no-one would be disappointed at all with what's happened so far as we're top of the league without hitting our best. I happen to agree that a lot of our players have been found out as being severely limited. I expected us to be challenging for the promotion spots and playing lots of close hard fought games that were devoid of quality. No wonder i'm happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil K Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Nolan and whoever people are supporting out of Carroll and Ranger. It was a diplomatic 'couple'. Normally you need to score more often than "rarely" as in Carrolls case or "never" as in Ranger's to be considered amongst "players who can finish" Even diplomatically put ! I expected us to be challenging for the promotion spots and playing lots of close hard fought games that were devoid of quality. No wonder i'm happy. This, however, was spot on ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I think everyone expected this league to be easier than it has been, even if they didn't admit it to themselves. If not then no-one would be disappointed at all with what's happened so far as we're top of the league without hitting our best. I happen to agree that a lot of our players have been found out as being severely limited. I expected us to be challenging for the promotion spots and playing lots of close hard fought games that were devoid of quality. No wonder i'm happy. I've really enjoyed this season so far, it's nice watching a game deviod of quality sometimes. If the games weren't devoid of quality last season we were invariably getting hammered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Despite the moans about the poor football served up, one thing which has pleased me this season is that we won't be bullied by Championship teams. Seffield United were another team fielding thugs like Morgan and the blonde tart next to him hoping to kick us out of our stride and they like others they failed. I enjoyed Colo's sly kick at the Sheffield lad's thigh as well. Top man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relámpago blanco Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 If we had 1 decent winger who can stick in a cross and an energetic powerful midfielder we'd walk this league, we have neither we need to look at a different system than 442 or 451. Something like this Harper Raylor Colo Taylor Enrique Smith Guthrie Nolan Ranger Jonas or Lovenkrands Carroll Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Aside from 'a bit frustrating', there's a word that i could happily use to sum up our season, but i just can't think what it is. It centres around the fact we've had opportunities to pull away and put a foot in the Premier League next year, but blown it on a few occassions. Similar to last year and staying up really. Boro have been erratic to say the least and West Brom were in a dire run of forum up until the Watford game; them two have essentially handed us top spot on a platter of late but we've not bitten their hands off like we should have. Three fixtures after the Ipswich victory, we should have pulled ourselves a good nine points ahead of 3rd, but them poxy home draws held us back. Unopportunistic? Don't think that's in the dictionary but that's what i'm trying to say. The first team is blatantly good enough to win this league but i'd argue that the squad and the manager aren't really of that Championship-winning standard. With a bit of luck, the overshadowing quality in the first eleven (i'm looking at mainly Taylor-Colo-Enrique-Smith), they should get us back up in spite of the obvious mediocrity elsewhere at the club. Aye we don't have many goals in the side but that defensive crux, with a reasonable goalie in Harper, won't concede much. Getting 44k at home every week will do us a favour n'all; we've never once looked like losing at home*. *arguably QPR, but i didn't see that one personally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 in a dire run of forum Maybe that's a sign you're spending too much time on here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Reasonable season for Watford so far, far exceeding expectations (mine and others), long may it continue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fraser Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 My impressions of the season so far: There's no reason why we shouldn't be promoted but as we all know we're very far from perfect. The team is getting used to the 'cup' atmosphere of many of the games that they have and will have to play both home and away. Notable examples so far for me were Scunthorpe United and Nottingham Forest away and Doncaster Rovers and Bristol City at home; last night's game too possibly, although I think that Sheffield United were really well-motivated to bring their recent bad run to an end and they were very committed but the team dug out a result. I think that QPR, Leicester City and WBA are simply good teams who'll give anyone a game on their day. Referees (and I'm not anti-referee) seem at pains not to be influenced by SJP or the team's previous status and in a lot of matches (notably Bristol City) this ends up going too far the other way. Whilst not making excuses for some of his performances I don't think Jonas gets sufficient protection. The team seems really together; more than any I've seen representing us in recent years and this bodes well. We lack pace and mobility in central midfield; this needs to be addressed as not all that good players from the opposition revel in the resulting space. Smith needs a rapid other. The biggest difference between Premiership and Championship is in the final third. I think our most consistent performers have been Smith, Nolan, Colo, Saylor, Harper (decent 'spine') and Jose has surpassed all expectations; he pisses this league. When we get promoted we'll have to spend a bucket-load (stating the obvious). The away support remains fantastic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 It's tough because if you asked people before the season began if they would take 30 points from 15 games most would of took your hand off, myself included. Yet like most I'm still not completely happy with the way things are going. I think the big one is the recent run we've been on. We missed an opportunity to put daylight between ourselves and the chasing pack with a run of four games without a win, I think in particular the two draws grated on people a bit. If you consider QPR are one of the better sides in this division and against Bristol we were a bit unlucky it really wasn't that massive. People should maybe look at it a different way in that we were lucky West Brom hit a poor patch when we did because they could of also pulled clear, it's six and two threes really. Its human nature to look at what could of been I suppose. The unnconvincing performances of the side at times has also contributed. I don't think it's arrogant in saying, on paper at least, we have one of the better squads in this division. We could be and should be having days where we rip sides apart. Off the top of my head West Brom, Reading, Palace and Ipswich are the only games we've looked like a side capable of competing at the top of the division. The annoying thing it's not because we don't have the ability it's the tactics that are the problem. In the recent games in particular we've been playing the long ball game. Not only is it absolutely shocking to watch but most of the time it's ineffective, particularly with one up front. Whenever we try and play a bit we've looked good, but instead we just belt it up field and most of the time it comes straight back at us and we've been thoroughly outplayed in games with this being one of the main contributing factors and it could so easily be avoided. Then you add Ashley's shadow looming over the club, the appointment of Hughton and the depth of the squad. The wheels feel like they could come off at any time, especially with the horror show that was last season still fresh in the memory. Yet with all this in mind it is easy to forget we're at the top of the division with a healthy 30 points in the bag. Given how negative things were at the beginning of the season I think even the most hardcore pessimists would fail to smile at that. The truth is this season was never going to be pretty and I'd take our unconvincing performances every day of the week if it meant promotion. For me the unease is born from just how easily things could unravel, especially with Ashley and Hughton at the helm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 It's tough because if you asked people before the season began if they would take 30 points from 15 games most would of took your hand off, myself included. Yet like most I'm still not completely happy with the way things are going. I think the big one is the recent run we've been on. We missed an opportunity to put daylight between ourselves and the chasing pack with a run of four games without a win, I think in particular the two draws grated on people a bit. If you consider QPR are one of the better sides in this division and against Bristol we were a bit unlucky it really wasn't that massive. People should maybe look at it a different way in that we were lucky West Brom hit a poor patch when we did because they could of also pulled clear, it's six and two threes really. Its human nature to look at what could of been I suppose. The unnconvincing performances of the side at times has also contributed. I don't think it's arrogant in saying, on paper at least, we have one of the better squads in this division. We could be and should be having days where we rip sides apart. Off the top of my head West Brom, Reading, Palace and Ipswich are the only games we've looked like a side capable of competing at the top of the division. The annoying thing it's not because we don't have the ability it's the tactics that are the problem. In the recent games in particular we've been playing the long ball game. Not only is it absolutely shocking to watch but most of the time it's ineffective, particularly with one up front. Whenever we try and play a bit we've looked good, but instead we just belt it up field and most of the time it comes straight back at us and we've been thoroughly outplayed in games with this being one of the main contributing factors and it could so easily be avoided. Then you add Ashley's shadow looming over the club, the appointment of Hughton and the depth of the squad. The wheels feel like they could come off at any time, especially with the horror show that was last season still fresh in the memory. Yet with all this in mind it is easy to forget we're at the top of the division with a healthy 30 points in the bag. Given how negative things were at the beginning of the season I think even the most hardcore pessimists would fail to smile at that. The truth is this season was never going to be pretty and I'd take our unconvincing performances every day of the week if it meant promotion. For me the unease is born from just how easily things could unravel, especially with Ashley and Hughton at the helm. Great post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest float one in Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I never expected us to be top of the league at any point this season, let alone into November. I hadn't watched any 2nd div football for donks (pretty much since we went up in 93!) and had it in my head that it would be bricks for us. People had been saying "it's a hard league to get out of", and that it was full of physical, battling teams - given the lack of backbone and fight that most of our squad showed last season, I really didn't think they'd have the stomach for it. Allied to the potential mass exodus that everyone was talking about in the summer, with noone else coming in, I was seriously fearing the worst. Therefore I am over the moon at our current position in the league, if not the overall situation of the club (who is). As we have all seen, the performances have been by and large pap to watch. We've had a few good spells of decent possession, and a few decent goals, but not much in the way of excitement. As others have said, there have been matches where we've been lucky to come away with anything, and matches that we've deservedly lost. At the start of the season I would have taken winning the league with 44 poor performances, and I still would or course, we all would. However, I hadn't expected the league to be so poor... after 15 matches, we have watched some shocking matches between us and other teams that are similarly dreadful to watch (Palace and Cardiff spring to mind off the top of me head). I think this group of players probably have the quality to be giving us better entertainment in this league, and giving a few teams howkings, but that would come from better coaching, which doesn't look like a realistic possibility this season. Best we can hope for is to go up with these workmanlike performances, as they say on tv, and be bought in the summer by someone who has a clue what they are doing, and get us a decent manager and the playing reinforcements that will allow us to stay up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Still happy. West Brom have a tougher run-up to Christmas too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca888 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 11 wins from 17 games has exceeded my expectations by a long way. You only have to look at what has happened to Middlesbrough to see how well we have done. My main fears relate to squad strength, depth and determination. Many oin here fear Ashley selling more of our best players in January but if he did this, then he would be cutting his nose off despite his face. He wants promotion just as much as us because he knows if we dont go up, we could slide like Leeds therefore depreciating his asset or if we do go up, his asset will double in value enabling him to get more back when he eventually sells. However, to get promotion, he needs to improve the squad, not just for the remainder of the season, but also for our first season back. We have a reasonable nucleus there already but we need to get rid of the likes of Khiz, Harewood and buy a quality defender, winger, goalscoring striker and creative central midfielder. At the moment, I would be happy with Campbell, Beckford, Driver and Koumas coming in and signing Simpson full time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 the season so far......our players are still in pre -season apart from the captain who is in pre-toddler. it's possible they may realise the season has started sometime soon.....but i doubt it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 We've come into this position before. Had some really good away wins, at Cardiff and Ipswich for example - then had two very winnable home games and fucked it up. That was QPR and Bristol City in that case. Very similar scenario here. We're in really good form, four wins on the bounce including a couple of very tough away ones. Swansea and Watford really, really should be six points if we're ever gonna establish any delight from the rest of the chasing pack. The Baggies are behind us because they've lost three times at home; we have to make absolutely certain we don't let one slip because our form at St James' is what will ultimately take us up, if we do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 We've come into this position before. Had some really good away wins, at Cardiff and Ipswich for example - then had two very winnable home games and f***ed it up. That was QPR and Bristol City in that case. Very similar scenario here. We're in really good form, four wins on the bounce including a couple of very tough away ones. Swansea and Watford really, really should be six points if we're ever gonna establish any delight from the rest of the chasing pack. The Baggies are behind us because they've lost three times at home; we have to make absolutely certain we don't let one slip because our form at St James' is what will ultimately take us up, if we do. Watford and particularly Swansea are bang in form though, could potentially be more tricky then Preston. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 We're top of the league and unbeaten at home though. If we're ever going to stop this 'plod-along' approach, we should be winning both of those games, absolutely no question - which we're more than capable of doing. Don't get me wrong, i'm more than satisfied with how we're performing and i would have bitten your hand off for this in August... but there's no reason, with the quality in the side, that we can't pull a good four or five points away from West Brom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Agreed but just saying we need to be on guard. Swansea won't come and accept deafeat like Peterborough did, they'll have a go. They've lost one in their last 11 and have climbed to forth as a pose to Preston who we played on a bad run of performances. Similarly Watford are begining to find a run of form. It would be nice to take adavantage of being on home turf and put some real daylight between ourselves and third though. Edit: They might actually be unbeaten in their last 11, can't be arsed to check. Ironically Preston were the last side to beat them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca888 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Swansea will be a test although I dont think they are as dangerous away from home as QPR were. I watched Swansea v Cardiff a few weeks ago and whilst they won 3-2, I thought after dominating the first half hour, they lost control of the game and let a very ordinary Cardiff back into it. Swansea's first goal was a header by the smallest player on the field and in that first half, neither defence looked particul;arly steady. Swansea seem to be very immobile at the back and whilst they appear to have a good midfield, their main striker appears to be Craig Beattie, who to be honest, is no great shakes. Having said that now, he will probably score a hat trick against us now.......LOL. It should be a decent passing game though because I think they will come to get 3 points but it will be won for us by the wing play. Swansea seem to be a little too delicate at full back and this could be the game where we see Jonas on one wing and Pancrate on the other wing, attacking them with pace and crossing accuracy down the flanks. If we can do this, we will murder them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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