Plymouth Argyle 0 - 0 Newcastle United - 02/01/10 - post bore reaction from p12

[TRon]

I honestly didn't give a shit about today's game. It's difficult to learn anything about any of our players while we are playing this style of football. If you play a side with eight defenders it's pretty harsh to judge the forwards-  like Pancrate who has received the majority of stick - when they are feeding on scraps.

[Guest Brummiemag]

Worst possible result.

 

How the hell can it be the worst possible result? If Houghton had played a full strength team we may well have won the game

 

We're still in the cup, thats the main thing and if he puts out a strong team a week on Wednesday we have every chance of progressing.

 

For fuck sake this is the FA Cup, 2400 people including myself care about it enough to travel down and yet some people on here would rather lose the game.

 

Unbelievable 

[Big Geordie]

Brummie. And kudos for travelling down to watch.

[Dr.Spaceman]

Who is Houghton?

[MKSC]

Worst possible result.

 

How the hell can it be the worst possible result? If Houghton had played a full strength team we may well have won the game

 

We're still in the cup, thats the main thing and if he puts out a strong team a week on Wednesday we have every chance of progressing.

 

For f*** sake this is the FA Cup, 2400 people including myself care about it enough to travel down and yet some people on here would rather lose the game.

 

Unbelievable   

 

Not everybody feels the same. I was mightily pissed off when I made the effort to go to the POSH league cup game only to see us play half the youth team and get completely embarrassed by a second rate team. I'd always want us to try and win no matter what. Pro footballers should be able to cope with the amount of games required without the need for being rested.

[Guest Brummiemag]

Brummie. And kudos for travelling down to watch.

 

Thanks although its only half the distance for me.

 

I just think its really sad the way a lot of people don't take the FA Cup (or League Cup) seriously any more. Its a great competition and Newcastle have a great cup tradition.

 

Take away the cups and what have you got left? Nothing apart from scraping around in the bottom half of the premier league year after year with no hope of ever winning a trophy because promotion or premier league survival will always be the priority 

 

No thanks, lets get promoted but never at the expense of a good cup run

[ElDiablo]

We're in the Championship, we can go all out for that fuck on next season when we're up. Last year I wanted us to win it and was gutted when we went out, and I will be next year if we're in the Premiership, but atm it just isn't the priority and might very well act as a hinderance to us going up this year, which could mean several more years down here. Surely you can see that?

[Dr.Spaceman]

Those highlights were fucking mint!

[Guest Brummiemag]

We're in the Championship, we can go all out for that fuck on next season when we're up. Last year I wanted us to win it and was gutted when we went out, and I will be next year if we're in the Premiership, but atm it just isn't the priority and might very well act as a hinderance to us going up this year, which could mean several more years down here. Surely you can see that?

 

But I guarantee that if we get promoted then next season a lot of people will be saying survival is the priority, forget the cups, and so it goes on and on

[Cajun]

Worst possible result.

 

How the hell can it be the worst possible result? If Houghton had played a full strength team we may well have won the game

 

We're still in the cup, thats the main thing and if he puts out a strong team a week on Wednesday we have every chance of progressing.

 

For f*** sake this is the FA Cup, 2400 people including myself care about it enough to travel down and yet some people on here would rather lose the game.

 

Unbelievable   

 

Not everybody feels the same. I was mightily pissed off when I made the effort to go to the POSH league cup game only to see us play half the youth team and get completely embarrassed by a second rate team. I'd always want us to try and win no matter what. Pro footballers should be able to cope with the amount of games required without the need for being rested.

 

Ours look unfit at the best of times though.

 

Priority = Promotion>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cups/pride.

 

For me, even if its only a couple more games that is a couple more games one of our important players could pick up

a long term injury and the squad is thin enough as it is, especially in defence. Taylor or Colo with a season ending injury

could be the difference between promotion and another year/few years stuck down here.

[PM]

Did everyone enjoy the Highlight then?   Jesus wept...

[jdckelly]

Did everyone enjoy the Highlight then?   Jesus wept...

what a highlight though

[eddco]

"And late on Nicky Butt saw his looping volley tipped over by Romain Larrieu as Plymouth held on."

 

Looping Volley

[Chris_R]

Back from the game a couple of hours ago (Moved down to Bournemouth last month as I've said in the pre match thread). Anyway, my take on things with particular reference to a few key protagonists:

 

Krul had nothing of note to do, can't remember him being forced into action at any point. Kicking was erratic, flapped at a couple of high balls under pressure and got generous free kicks from the referee. Kadar looked impressive, tidy game at the back. Didn't really put a foot wrong so that's a positive.

 

Pancrate I can't defend. I've seen it said that he was "feeding on scraps" so it's hard to judge him. Well I'm going to: His first touch was s***, he couldn't pass water and he seemed completely unable or unwilling to run at his man when given the opportunity. His one chance to put a cross in resulted in him shanking it off his foot and it went virtually straight forward, rather than 90 degrees across his body and into the box as intended. The only positive I could give was that he turned up.

 

Normally I think Nicky Butt should be burnt at the stake, but today he looked reasonably competent. Of our midfield, he looked most composed, picked out some good passes and had a couple of good shots. Yeah, there were the occasional "Oh, FOR f***'S SAKE!!" moments with him, but no more than the rest of the team and far less than normal from him.

 

Ranger and Ameobi got little or no service, unless you count balls punted forward to them either in the air or along the ground which they could do nothing with. Ameobi did look more useful, able to hold the ball up better and more able to run at his man. However the support from midfield when he did manage to hold the ball up was shocking.

 

Our general play was awful, with the us getting possession in midfield then the ball often going sideways, sideways, backwards, sideways, backwards, WELLY! towards Ameobi and Ranger. They'd clear it back to our midfield and the cycle repeats. It's something we're all familiar with I'm sure from this season. The midfield are incapable of supporting the attackers (Nolan apart), and we have no width at all other than Jonas and Pancrate yet Hughton seems unable to play both together (I know this was the cup and we're not bothered about it, I'm talking generally), leaving us with only one outlet. The opposition know this, so they just stick 2 men on our only winger and crowd him out. Guthrie is not a winger, he's put some good crosses in from there that have created goals but he drifts inside for 85 minutes and offers no width to our play. I don't know if that's Hughton's instructions or Guthrie just doing it but it needs to stop if he's to play there.

 

I've no idea when Barton's back, but a midfield of:

 

Pancrate Nolan Barton Jonas

 

Would absolutely piss this league if we can keep the rest of the squad together and fit. Unless Pancrate's s*** (Jury's still out for me), in which case let's get another left winger in as a priority over anything else this window. And yes, I do mean left winger, because Jonas should not be allowed to play on the left. He's right footed, and has demonstrated time and again that he can't cross with his left. Sure, he's had a couple of assists there but if I had 500 crosses with my left foot I'm sure one or 2 would by chance find a teammate.

 

I'm just rambling now so I'll shut up, or I could go on all night.

[Cajun]

"And late on Nicky Butt saw his looping volley tipped over by Romain Larrieu as Plymouth held on."

 

Looping Volley

 

Hopefully an overhead kick from his own 18 yard area.

[Dave]

There's not a chance that Hughton would be adventurous enough to not play one or more of Smith and Butt unless both are crocked.

[Chris_R]

There's not a chance that Hughton would be adventurous enough to not play one or more of Smith and Butt unless both are crocked.

 

Which is why he'll never cut it as a manager. (Not suggesting I would mind!)

 

My worry is if that's his mentality playing against Plymouth and every other twobit team in this league, what the fuck kind of formation is he planning to play away to Man U next year? Assuming we go up of course.

[midds]

Just for the record I don't think anyone genuinely wanted us to lose the tie today. The ideal scenario would have been to rest 9 or 10 of the first XI and still have enough to beat Plymouth.

 

The FA Cup should be irrelevant to NUFC this year as the only thing that matters is getting promoted. In seasons gone by, where we were a comfortable PL side, then we could afford to have a real go at the Cup and make it as important as the League. We could do this safe in the knowledge that it wouldn't really have any affect on the bread and butter of the League. Sadly, we're not in as comfortable a position as that this year. We MUST get promoted this year or we could be down here for donkeys years. For that reason, I'd rather sacrifice the Cup this season and play the kids in the replay. Rest the players we're going to have rely on to get us promoted and bite the bullet for a season.     

[Cajun]

Tbf I am not sure any of the current alternatives will be any better, ok someone like Guthrie in the middle will be more productive but we will still be massively lacking mobility and won't be protecting the defence as much.

[Cajun]

Just for the record I don't think anyone genuinely wanted us to lose the tie today. The ideal scenario would have been to rest 9 or 10 of the first XI and still have enough to beat Plymouth.

 

The FA Cup should be irrelevant to NUFC this year as the only thing that matters is getting promoted. In seasons gone by, where we were a comfortable PL side, then we could afford to have a real go at the Cup and make it as important as the League. We could do this safe in the knowledge that it wouldn't really have any affect on the bread and butter of the League. Sadly, we're not in as comfortable a position as that this year. We MUST get promoted this year or we could be down here for donkeys years. For that reason, I'd rather sacrifice the Cup this season and play the kids in the replay. Rest the players we're going to have rely on to get us promoted and bite the bullet for a season.     

 

 

and the longer we stay down here the less chance we have in progressing in the cups anyway.

 

[Chris_R]

Tbf I am not sure any of the current alternatives will be any better, ok someone like Guthrie in the middle will be more productive but we will still be massively lacking mobility and won't be protecting the defence as much.

 

But why do we feel we need to protect the defence?

 

Firstly, this is the same midfield that woefully failed to protect our defence last year. We didn't go down because our defence was bad, it was the midfield in front that meant we offered nothing going forward so spent the entire time on the back foot.

 

Secondly, what are we supposedly protecting the defence from? Plymouth were awful today. There's very few teams with decent forwards or any creativity in this league that can really hurt us. Our defence is largely good enough to look after itself.

 

Anyway, I've always believed that attack is the best form of defence. We've got good players (Our league position testifies to this), let's start to make the opposition worry about us instead of us worrying about what they're going to do to us.

[Chris_R]

Just for the record I don't think anyone genuinely wanted us to lose the tie today. The ideal scenario would have been to rest 9 or 10 of the first XI and still have enough to beat Plymouth.

 

The FA Cup should be irrelevant to NUFC this year as the only thing that matters is getting promoted. In seasons gone by, where we were a comfortable PL side, then we could afford to have a real go at the Cup and make it as important as the League. We could do this safe in the knowledge that it wouldn't really have any affect on the bread and butter of the League. Sadly, we're not in as comfortable a position as that this year. We MUST get promoted this year or we could be down here for donkeys years. For that reason, I'd rather sacrifice the Cup this season and play the kids in the replay. Rest the players we're going to have rely on to get us promoted and bite the bullet for a season.     

 

Generally I'd agree with that. But if we progress, and draw a decent team at home, we could conservatively get 40,000 people paying £25 quid each. It might be hard to turn down 75% (As the home side) of £1m quid.

 

And yes, I know that promotion is worth infinitely more than that. But Ashley will doubtless think he can have both.

[Cajun]

Tbf I am not sure any of the current alternatives will be any better, ok someone like Guthrie in the middle will be more productive but we will still be massively lacking mobility and won't be protecting the defence as much.

 

But why do we feel we need to protect the defence?

 

Firstly, this is the same midfield that woefully failed to protect our defence last year. We didn't go down because our defence was bad, it was the midfield in front that meant we offered nothing going forward so spent the entire time on the back foot.

 

Secondly, what are we supposedly protecting the defence from? Plymouth were awful today. There's very few teams with decent forwards or any creativity in this league that can really hurt us. Our defence is largely good enough to look after itself.

 

Anyway, I've always believed that attack is the best form of defence. We've got good players (Our league position testifies to this), let's start to make the opposition worry about us instead of us worrying about what they're going to do to us.

 

The defence is good but they still need help, if we had an energetic, pacy central midfielder then I would be happy for us not to use Smith or Butt but we don't so no matter who we play in midfield our defence will be under pressure. Imo we must play Nolan because the rest of the team aren't clinical enough so unless we sign Essien any time soon we need someone to sit in front of the back 4 because whoever plays with Nolan isn't going to be able to handle the job of 2 midfilders.

 

I think there are at least one or two squads in this league as good if not better than ours so that fanny of a manager must be doing something right.

[TRon]

Back from the game a couple of hours ago (Moved down to Bournemouth last month as I've said in the pre match thread). Anyway, my take on things with particular reference to a few key protagonists:

 

Krul had nothing of note to do, can't remember him being forced into action at any point. Kicking was erratic, flapped at a couple of high balls under pressure and got generous free kicks from the referee. Kadar looked impressive, tidy game at the back. Didn't really put a foot wrong so that's a positive.

 

Pancrate I can't defend. I've seen it said that he was "feeding on scraps" so it's hard to judge him. Well I'm going to: His first touch was s***, he couldn't pass water and he seemed completely unable or unwilling to run at his man when given the opportunity. His one chance to put a cross in resulted in him shanking it off his foot and it went virtually straight forward, rather than 90 degrees across his body and into the box as intended. The only positive I could give was that he turned up.

 

Normally I think Nicky Butt should be burnt at the stake, but today he looked reasonably competent. Of our midfield, he looked most composed, picked out some good passes and had a couple of good shots. Yeah, there were the occasional "Oh, FOR f***'S SAKE!!" moments with him, but no more than the rest of the team and far less than normal from him.

 

Ranger and Ameobi got little or no service, unless you count balls punted forward to them either in the air or along the ground which they could do nothing with. Ameobi did look more useful, able to hold the ball up better and more able to run at his man. However the support from midfield when he did manage to hold the ball up was shocking.

 

Our general play was awful, with the us getting possession in midfield then the ball often going sideways, sideways, backwards, sideways, backwards, WELLY! towards Ameobi and Ranger. They'd clear it back to our midfield and the cycle repeats. It's something we're all familiar with I'm sure from this season. The midfield are incapable of supporting the attackers (Nolan apart), and we have no width at all other than Jonas and Pancrate yet Hughton seems unable to play both together (I know this was the cup and we're not bothered about it, I'm talking generally), leaving us with only one outlet. The opposition know this, so they just stick 2 men on our only winger and crowd him out. Guthrie is not a winger, he's put some good crosses in from there that have created goals but he drifts inside for 85 minutes and offers no width to our play. I don't know if that's Hughton's instructions or Guthrie just doing it but it needs to stop if he's to play there.

 

I've no idea when Barton's back, but a midfield of:

 

Pancrate Nolan Barton Jonas

 

Would absolutely piss this league if we can keep the rest of the squad together and fit. Unless Pancrate's s*** (Jury's still out for me), in which case let's get another left winger in as a priority over anything else this window. And yes, I do mean left winger, because Jonas should not be allowed to play on the left. He's right footed, and has demonstrated time and again that he can't cross with his left. Sure, he's had a couple of assists there but if I had 500 crosses with my left foot I'm sure one or 2 would by chance find a teammate.

 

I'm just rambling now so I'll shut up, or I could go on all night.

 

You absolutely slated Pancrate on his performance tonight and defended Butt, yet you have picked Pancrate ahead of Butt to start the next game. I don't really follow this line of thinking.

[Dave]

He says for him the jury is still out on Pancrate. Presumably he already knows Butt is crap.