Ronaldo Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Pancrate made a big difference because he has a pair of working legs. Just show's what we're missing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 he's also got to bear in mind if we get promoted and Ashley decides again he's going to flog the club, that theres no way on earth if we get someone with ambition that they're going to see him as the man to lead us into the light. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Will you take back your abuse about "dropping" Jonas when it comes out he wasn't fit to start? Will you f***, some (quite a few) love to slag off hughton then when it turns out he had no other option people don't have the bottle to hold their hands up and its f***ing pathetic. There are a few things I would have done differently today (like lovenkrands starting) but this place is getting cringeworthy at times with the massive, ill informed over reactions Show me where I mentioned Jonas. Show me where I was talking to you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 he's also got to bear in mind if we get promoted and Ashley decides again he's going to flog the club, that theres no way on earth if we get someone with ambition that they're going to see him as the man to lead us into the light. break the bank for avram grant, the guy will keep us up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Show me where I was talking to you I made an assumption because the post followed mine, it's no big deal anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Pancrate made a big difference because he has a pair of working legs. Just show's what we're missing. Aye, shame he lacks in every other department. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 If he doesn't start Routledge and Jonas on Friday, then I truly lose hope for him, as a coach never mind a manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Pancrate made a big difference because he has a pair of working legs. Just show's what we're missing. Aye, shame he lacks in every other department. Yeah. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 If he doesn't start Routledge and Jonas on Friday, then I truly lose hope for him, as a coach never mind a manager. What if Jonas isn't fit to start? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 What if Jonas isn't fit to start? If he's not fit to start then he shouldn't be on the bench, the same as yesterday. If a player isn't fit to play why have him on the bench when the temptation to use him can take over from common sense? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 What if Jonas isn't fit to start? If he's not fit to start then he shouldn't be on the bench, the same as yesterday. If a player isn't fit to play why have him on the bench when the temptation to use him can take over from common sense? Because if we don't have enough to fill the bench anyway there is no harm putting someone on there who other managers will know can cause problems, therefore they will have that in the back of their mind when deciding how they are going to play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 If he doesn't start Routledge and Jonas on Friday, then I truly lose hope for him, as a coach never mind a manager. What if Jonas isn't fit to start? He's still got enough options to pick a far more balanced side than he did yesterday. Hughton shot himself in the foot by leaving it until the 75th min. to get after Leicester's ten men. No getting around that for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 What if Jonas isn't fit to start? If he's not fit to start then he shouldn't be on the bench, the same as yesterday. If a player isn't fit to play why have him on the bench when the temptation to use him can take over from common sense? Because if we don't have enough to fill the bench anyway there is no harm putting someone on there who other managers will know can cause problems, therefore they will have that in the back of their mind when deciding how they are going to play. spot on. only reason Loven and Jonas were on the bench last night Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Because if we don't have enough to fill the bench anyway there is no harm putting someone on there who other managers will know can cause problems, therefore they will have that in the back of their mind when deciding how they are going to play. We do have enough players to fill the bench without putting an injured player on it for the sake of it. If we have had him on the bench while injured then it's madness. I could understand that kind of thinking in April if we need points for promotion, I can't understand it at this time because a bad injury could lead to the player missing the rest of the season. Souness did something like that to Taylor when he injured his shoulder while playing for England and we lost him for the rest of that season. It's possible that he was on as a way of keeping the opposition manager guessing but I doubt that was the reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 I was having digs at Hughton well before this result and will do again. Anybody who went to the West Brom FA cup game will have seen how dreadful we were in the first half playing 4-4-1-1/4-5-1 and how much we improved going 4-4-2 and yet Hughton persists with these 'nick a 1-0' tactics. As usual we have 3 central midfielders in the midfield 4 and just the 1 attacking winger. At some point soon i may look through the teamsheets and see how often this has happened but not today. My problem is in all honestly we have been crap over the season as a whole, i think if other team had a decent striker we would have lost many more points as often it is the fact our defence is quite good and other teams lack the quality to finish that has been the saving grace. My problem is that i believe we could actually beat 3/4 of the teams in this league by outfootballing them. Leicester killed us for 70 minutes yesterday, waltzing through are team and should have been 2-0 up by the time the 2nd striker came on. We failed to create 1 clear cut chance yesterday which, when you are supposedly the best team in the league and have a 1 man advantage for 60 minutes is useless. Under Keegan and Robson we would have started off more positively and then gone for it with the extra man. Hughton though does not seem to learn. His favoured formation is 4-4-1-1 with a CM on the wing and although we have won many games i struggle to conjure images of 1. As i referred to above, many of the games this season feel like losses or draws and would have been just that if the opposition had more quality. We have not dominated 1 team this season, and i include ipswich as that was more of an implosion by them as opposed to our good football. I find it hard that people are mustering a support argument for him. Ok, so he is a nice guy but quite simply we have not performed this season. For me it is the managers job to select the correct 11 to take to the field. I would struggle to justify many of his team selections and i believe the poor player performances are a result of this. The way we are set up at the moment makes it very hard for anybody apart from the back 5 to make an impression. If one looks at the balance of the team there is no outlet down the right as Guthrie is not a winger and can therefore only pass it sideways or backwards. Down the left we do have an outlet but the Central Midfielders have such a limited passing ability twinned with little vision that it tends to make it easier for the oppositon to deal with this threat. Pace wise there is a problem throughout the team and this starts with no passing or movement in the centre midfield and ends up with balls being stood up into the box. A stood up ball is hard to get any power into and is easy for a keeper to take. This point also leds to a point on the target man which is due to the negative tactics, we have 10 players very deep when the opposition attack. When we are regaining the ball we either have the option of going left, or playing it long to a big striker. The thing is 1) you are asking a lot of the striker as once he recieves it he can still only go left, as Guthrie through no fault of his own does not have the pace to make an outlet right, or left to Jonas and 2) most of the time he is competing with 2 defenders and then has to play it backwards any way, still leaving the only forward ball that can be played, left. Under Allardyce the tactic would be the midfield laucn onto the ball off the striker which is at least logical but because of our set up there is no forward momentum gained. On a different note quite an interesting stat to see would be how many times we have got to the bye line this season and pulled balls back as i would suggest it would be on a par with a bottom half side. This links into the fact that we can only get there down one side of the pitch and once we are there the midfield haven't caught up so there is nobody to aim for. Lastly in attack is the limited amount of people we get in the box. This is partly due to playing 1 striker with an attacking midfielder who likes to be on the edge of the box. It hammered it home to me when i wathed a bit of the rum match yesterday and you were seeing 4/5 players in the box off any 1 attack. I hate to think how many times this season crosses have come in and there has been 1/2 in the box, with a maximum of 4/5 in the whole opponents half. This of course is linked with playing 2 defensive midfielders. I could go into a lot more depth than this but i hope some of what i have written makes some people understand the shortcomings of the manager and why players may not be able to perform. Nice read. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 spot on. only reason Loven and Jonas were on the bench last night Where were Donaldson, Tozer and LuaLua? They've all been on the bench within the last couple of games and weren't involved yesterday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 spot on. only reason Loven and Jonas were on the bench last night Where were Donaldson, Tozer and LuaLua? They've all been on the bench within the last couple of games and weren't involved yesterday. Lua Lua must be better than pancacke? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgs Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 spot on. only reason Loven and Jonas were on the bench last night Where were Donaldson, Tozer and LuaLua? They've all been on the bench within the last couple of games and weren't involved yesterday. Lua Lua must be better than pancacke? This, i dont like bringing in average players to play ahead of those with potential who are still young. Waste of time and money if you ask me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggs Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 spot on. only reason Loven and Jonas were on the bench last night Where were Donaldson, Tozer and LuaLua? They've all been on the bench within the last couple of games and weren't involved yesterday. Lua Lua must be better than pancacke? This, i dont like bringing in average players to play ahead of those with potential who are still young. Waste of time and money if you ask me I agree too and feel sorry for Kadar being knocked down the pecking order cos of Williamson and Hall being brought in ,madness really imho cos Kadar has very rarely looked out of place in our starting 11 and what must he think now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 That he's young and inexperienced? I get sick of this nonsense about young players not getting a chance, the team has to be put first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 If Jonas isn't fit I would be tempted to start Kadar left back and Van Dutchlad left wing, not that it will happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Have to say, the first 10/15 mins of the game yesterday contained some of the best passing football we've played all season when we were keeping it down and moving. It all went wrong when we got a little pressure & started panicking and clearing it long. Then started pointlessly chipping every pass to other players chest/head & we lost all momentum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 We were passing it mostly backwards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggs Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 That he's young and inexperienced? I get sick of this nonsense about young players not getting a chance, the team has to be put first. So tell me when he hasnt been up to it when he has played ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 We were passing it mostly backwards. Not atall. Put about 3/4 seperate moves passed along the ground from defence right through the middle, across wing, to striker, back to central midfield etc. Actually knocking the ball around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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