Ronaldo

[triggs]

I don't see how Ronaldo carried portugal to the euros at all. They finished third in the group and he scored in one game. He then played well against Wales. He scored the same amount of goals as Nani.

 

If he gets credit for that. Messi took Argentina to the final of the world cup, and he's consistently had to deal with absolutely shit management and no defence.

Pepe was much better than Ronaldo in the last Euros. Their win was based on defence

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

It is incredible that the opinion around the international performances of Messi and Ronaldo has changed so drastically because the likes Higuain and Palacio missed golden chances on the biggest stage, while a rubbish player like Eder struck his team to glory as Ronaldo watched from the side.

[HawK]

 

All opinions at any rate, there's no right and wrong answer. If it was absolutely cut and dry, i.e. factual, it wouldn't even be being discussed. If I were to elaborate on my Portugal assertions I'd say that that team needed CRonaldo in the squad, if not on the pitch, and without him they wouldn't have played as well as they did, defensively or not. I think the team played for him, like they don't want to let him down. I don't see Barcelona playing the same for Messi, but whatevs

 

Most will probably say it's only what happens on the pitch that defines a player, i.e. Gazza, Best and for that they'd be some of the best ever. Some would say it's their whole contribution to all the clubs they've played for, whether they fulfilled their potential, and what they did off the pitch for the club as well. Probably a much more narrow slice of the whole, but I sit more in that camp. So I'm happy to concede that talent wise, Ronaldo isn't on any lists at all for me, but in terms of being the greatest footballer, he's definitely near the top of my list.

 

tldr; it's all subjective.

[HawK]

It is incredible that the opinion around the international performances of Messi and Ronaldo has changed so drastically because the likes Higuain and Palacio missed golden chances on the biggest stage, while a rubbish player like Eder struck his team to glory as Ronaldo watched from the side.

 

'The opinion', i.e. the collective opinion on here (sorry cliqué) hasn't really changed, it's just me declaring an unpopular opinion.

[AsprillasShinPad]

Never forget that opinions are like arseholes.

[Guest firetotheworks]

It is incredible that the opinion around the international performances of Messi and Ronaldo has changed so drastically because the likes Higuain and Palacio missed golden chances on the biggest stage, while a rubbish player like Eder struck his team to glory as Ronaldo watched from the side.

 

I still find it canny mad how Messi's sort of old news for some now despite him still being miles better than the newcomers that everyone's wanking over.

 

Salah was up for the Ballon D'Or for his incredible season last season, but he still achieved less in everything he did than Messi did in 17/18.

[Pata]

 

All opinions at any rate, there's no right and wrong answer. If it was absolutely cut and dry, i.e. factual, it wouldn't even be being discussed. If I were to elaborate on my Portugal assertions I'd say that that team needed CRonaldo in the squad, if not on the pitch, and without him they wouldn't have played as well as they did, defensively or not. I think the team played for him, like they don't want to let him down. I don't see Barcelona playing the same for Messi, but whatevs

 

Most will probably say it's only what happens on the pitch that defines a player, i.e. Gazza, Best and for that they'd be some of the best ever. Some would say it's their whole contribution to all the clubs they've played for, whether they fulfilled their potential, and what they did off the pitch for the club as well. Probably a much more narrow slice of the whole, but I sit more in that camp. So I'm happy to concede that talent wise, Ronaldo isn't on any lists at all for me, but in terms of being the greatest footballer, he's definitely near the top of my list.

 

tldr; it's all subjective.

 

Bullshit in so many ways. Portugal is a small country, they don't need Ronaldo sitting on the bench for the players to try in the European Championship final ffs.

 

To also suggest in the same post that Ronaldo isn't immensely talented and shouldn't be in the 'top lists' based on talent is just ludicrous. And I've always been in the Messi>>>CR camp.

[loki679]

Messi is more talented, simple as that.  Cronaldo is an amazing player but he couldn't do what Messi can with a ball.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Messi has set the bar so ridiculously high its like he's made it normal to be the level he's at. Like he casually bangs in a hat trick in the CL and it's like, yeah just Messi doing his usual

 

The funny thing is Messi could never score a goal and he'd still be the best player of his generation to me. His goalscoring ability is so low on this list of things that are so awe inspiring about him.

 

Which is why i never really consider CR on his level, he's on his level when he comes to scoring goals and arguably better than Messi at that but aside from that there isn't a comparison.

[loki679]

Best goal ever is a bit far, like

[Guest firetotheworks]

I'll have to watch that.

 

Someone on Reddit asked people to explain to him as someone who isn't into football what makes him so great and I think it made the replies make more sense tbh. I said that he wasn't just the best player that I've ever seen, but the best at almost every individual attribute that I'd ever seen as well, not including penalties and aerial ability obviously, I think that pretty much sums it up for me. He's the best dribbler, passer, finisher, assister, reader of the game, free kick taker that I've ever seen. Above Maradona's dribbling, Pirlo's passing, Romario/Ronaldo's finishing, Xavi's reading of the game, and Juninho's free kicks. For me he's also my favourite to watch, but I think that's a different category and is just personal preference when you start throwing in the likes of Zidane or Iniesta because of their calm, effortless styles, or Ronaldinho with his off the wall skills.

[Kaizero]

Best goal ever is a bit far, like

 

YT "ESPN FC Sport Science - Messi's goal vs Athletic Bilbao. (2015 Copa del Rey Final)"  just watch that.

 

It's a great, great goal. Not sure I'd put it in a top ten list though. Total bias this, I'm sure, but there's two Ben Arfa goals for instance I think are better just off the top of my head.

[loki679]

Best goal ever is a bit far, like

 

YT "ESPN FC Sport Science - Messi's goal vs Athletic Bilbao. (2015 Copa del Rey Final)"  just watch that.

 

Watched it, thought it was largely bollocks.  It's a good goal,sure, but the hyperbole in that nonsense you mentioned demeans it.

[triggs]

If I was to do a top ten it would be basically all goals where the guy dribbles past loads of players or maybe a team move. Hit and hope strikes don’t do it for me

[loki679]

Best goal ever is a bit far, like

 

YT "ESPN FC Sport Science - Messi's goal vs Athletic Bilbao. (2015 Copa del Rey Final)"  just watch that.

 

Watched it, thought it was largely bollocks.  It's a good goal,sure, but the hyperbole in that nonsense you mentioned demeans it.

 

The science is bollocks? How do you work that out then?

 

No, the 'science' isn't bollocks but they're making something big out of things that aren't really that special using fancy graphics and hyperbole.

[Flip]

I'll have to watch that.

 

Someone on Reddit asked people to explain to him as someone who isn't into football what makes him so great and I think it made the replies make more sense tbh. I said that he wasn't just the best player that I've ever seen, but the best at almost every individual attribute that I'd ever seen as well, not including penalties and aerial ability obviously, I think that pretty much sums it up for me. He's the best dribbler, passer, finisher, assister, reader of the game, free kick taker that I've ever seen. Above Maradona's dribbling, Pirlo's passing, Romario/Ronaldo's finishing, Xavi's reading of the game, and Juninho's free kicks. For me he's also my favourite to watch, but I think that's a different category and is just personal preference when you start throwing in the likes of Zidane or Iniesta because of their calm, effortless styles, or Ronaldinho with his off the wall skills.

 

 

I don't disagree necessarily with your main point, but how in the earth is Messi above Juninho in freekicks? Hasn't Juninho scored like 80 freekicks in his career or something. Messi surely can't even be close, and Juninho also hit them from all kinds of distances and angles, something Messi doesn't really do.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Depends what you're into I guess. For me it's the ultimate considering where he starts with the ball, plus its a final. The way he beats a three man press so easily. I love everything about it. I prefer that to say a well hit volley, but others probably disagree. I prefer that to say the Bale overhead, or the chron overhead. Maybe the Zidane CL final goal runs it close, but for me its the ultimate.

 

Best thing about that goal for me is pausing it when he receives the ball, looking at what's ahead of him and then telling yourself or whoever's watching it with you that the next time the ball isn't at his feet it's in the net.

[loki679]

Best goal ever is a bit far, like

 

YT "ESPN FC Sport Science - Messi's goal vs Athletic Bilbao. (2015 Copa del Rey Final)"  just watch that.

 

Watched it, thought it was largely bollocks.  It's a good goal,sure, but the hyperbole in that nonsense you mentioned demeans it.

 

The science is bollocks? How do you work that out then?

 

No, the 'science' isn't bollocks but they're making something big out of things that aren't really that special using fancy graphics and hyperbole.

 

you don't think running the same speed as NFL elite athlete with the ball at feet, and under control is special? from static? Jamaal Charles is former track star and absolute lightning. By any metric that's impressive as fuck.

 

Dude, it's a good goal for sure, no question but the greatest ever?  Get tae fuck

[loki679]

Best goal ever is a bit far, like

 

YT "ESPN FC Sport Science - Messi's goal vs Athletic Bilbao. (2015 Copa del Rey Final)"  just watch that.

 

Watched it, thought it was largely bollocks.  It's a good goal,sure, but the hyperbole in that nonsense you mentioned demeans it.

 

The science is bollocks? How do you work that out then?

 

No, the 'science' isn't bollocks but they're making something big out of things that aren't really that special using fancy graphics and hyperbole.

 

you don't think running the same speed as NFL elite athlete with the ball at feet, and under control is special? from static? Jamaal Charles is former track star and absolute lightning. By any metric that's impressive as fuck.

 

Dude, it's a good goal for sure, no question but the greatest ever?  Get tae fuck

 

What's yours, out of interest?

 

Haven't really thought about it tbh.  Maybe Maradona in 86, Bergkamp, Shearer just for the technique, HBA

 

Loads better than that one although they didn't have some fancy graphics and 'science' to get the hipsters all riled up.

 

edit:  Might make a good thread

[Guest firetotheworks]

I'll have to watch that.

 

Someone on Reddit asked people to explain to him as someone who isn't into football what makes him so great and I think it made the replies make more sense tbh. I said that he wasn't just the best player that I've ever seen, but the best at almost every individual attribute that I'd ever seen as well, not including penalties and aerial ability obviously, I think that pretty much sums it up for me. He's the best dribbler, passer, finisher, assister, reader of the game, free kick taker that I've ever seen. Above Maradona's dribbling, Pirlo's passing, Romario/Ronaldo's finishing, Xavi's reading of the game, and Juninho's free kicks. For me he's also my favourite to watch, but I think that's a different category and is just personal preference when you start throwing in the likes of Zidane or Iniesta because of their calm, effortless styles, or Ronaldinho with his off the wall skills.

 

 

I don't disagree necessarily with your main point, but how in the earth is Messi above Juninho in freekicks? Hasn't Juninho scored like 80 freekicks in his career or something. Messi surely can't even be close, and Juninho also hit them from all kinds of distances and angles, something Messi doesn't really do.

 

Juninho has 77 in 20 years. Messi has (I think) 42 in 14 years. So 3.85 per year vs 3 per year, but Messi's conversion rate is accelerating rapidly and he didn't get his first until 10 years ago. In that first year (08/09) he scored 1, last year he scored 7. It would take a lot to beat Juninho's record though, admittedly.

 

Messi's goals vs Atletico, USA, Real Madrid, Paraguay sort of shows that he does score them from all distances and angles, no?

[HawK]

 

All opinions at any rate, there's no right and wrong answer. If it was absolutely cut and dry, i.e. factual, it wouldn't even be being discussed. If I were to elaborate on my Portugal assertions I'd say that that team needed CRonaldo in the squad, if not on the pitch, and without him they wouldn't have played as well as they did, defensively or not. I think the team played for him, like they don't want to let him down. I don't see Barcelona playing the same for Messi, but whatevs

 

Most will probably say it's only what happens on the pitch that defines a player, i.e. Gazza, Best and for that they'd be some of the best ever. Some would say it's their whole contribution to all the clubs they've played for, whether they fulfilled their potential, and what they did off the pitch for the club as well. Probably a much more narrow slice of the whole, but I sit more in that camp. So I'm happy to concede that talent wise, Ronaldo isn't on any lists at all for me, but in terms of being the greatest footballer, he's definitely near the top of my list.

 

tldr; it's all subjective.

 

Bullshit in so many ways. Portugal is a small country, they don't need Ronaldo sitting on the bench for the players to try in the European Championship final ffs.

 

To also suggest in the same post that Ronaldo isn't immensely talented and shouldn't be in the 'top lists' based on talent is just ludicrous. And I've always been in the Messi>>>CR camp.

 

Wow, what a considered response Has my opinion really triggered you that much?

[Flip]

I'll have to watch that.

 

Someone on Reddit asked people to explain to him as someone who isn't into football what makes him so great and I think it made the replies make more sense tbh. I said that he wasn't just the best player that I've ever seen, but the best at almost every individual attribute that I'd ever seen as well, not including penalties and aerial ability obviously, I think that pretty much sums it up for me. He's the best dribbler, passer, finisher, assister, reader of the game, free kick taker that I've ever seen. Above Maradona's dribbling, Pirlo's passing, Romario/Ronaldo's finishing, Xavi's reading of the game, and Juninho's free kicks. For me he's also my favourite to watch, but I think that's a different category and is just personal preference when you start throwing in the likes of Zidane or Iniesta because of their calm, effortless styles, or Ronaldinho with his off the wall skills.

 

 

I don't disagree necessarily with your main point, but how in the earth is Messi above Juninho in freekicks? Hasn't Juninho scored like 80 freekicks in his career or something. Messi surely can't even be close, and Juninho also hit them from all kinds of distances and angles, something Messi doesn't really do.

 

Juninho has 77 in 20 years. Messi has (I think) 42 in 14 years. So 3.85 per year vs 3 per year, but Messi's conversion rate is accelerating rapidly.

 

Messi's goals vs Atletico, USA, Real Madrid, Paraguay sort of shows that he does score them from all distances and angles, no?

 

Fair enough. Flawed attempt at statistics though. I could say look how many they've scored per games, but wouldn't be fair either. I think it's hard to take the crown away from Juninho in terms of free-kick, but do agree with your general point that what makes Messi great is that he is exceptional at just about everything.

[Pata]

Re: HawK

 

It was my opinion on your post.

 

That Messi goal is obviously great but just HBA has scored few better ones imo.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Just while i'm here the Guti assist to Benzema is one of my favourites ever. Underrated player. Messi prob has a highlight reel of ridiculous assists though. Some of the weight on his passing man

 

Some of it is absolutely disgusting. I always think back to his ball to David Villa in the Real Madrid 5-0, but honestly, it wouldn't even make his top 10 imo.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I'll have to watch that.

 

Someone on Reddit asked people to explain to him as someone who isn't into football what makes him so great and I think it made the replies make more sense tbh. I said that he wasn't just the best player that I've ever seen, but the best at almost every individual attribute that I'd ever seen as well, not including penalties and aerial ability obviously, I think that pretty much sums it up for me. He's the best dribbler, passer, finisher, assister, reader of the game, free kick taker that I've ever seen. Above Maradona's dribbling, Pirlo's passing, Romario/Ronaldo's finishing, Xavi's reading of the game, and Juninho's free kicks. For me he's also my favourite to watch, but I think that's a different category and is just personal preference when you start throwing in the likes of Zidane or Iniesta because of their calm, effortless styles, or Ronaldinho with his off the wall skills.

 

 

I don't disagree necessarily with your main point, but how in the earth is Messi above Juninho in freekicks? Hasn't Juninho scored like 80 freekicks in his career or something. Messi surely can't even be close, and Juninho also hit them from all kinds of distances and angles, something Messi doesn't really do.

 

Juninho has 77 in 20 years. Messi has (I think) 42 in 14 years. So 3.85 per year vs 3 per year, but Messi's conversion rate is accelerating rapidly.

 

Messi's goals vs Atletico, USA, Real Madrid, Paraguay sort of shows that he does score them from all distances and angles, no?

 

Fair enough. Flawed attempt at statistics though. I could say look how many they've scored per games, but wouldn't be fair either. I think it's hard to take the crown away from Juninho in terms of free-kick, but do agree with your general point that what makes Messi great is that he is exceptional at just about everything.

 

The stats were actually really difficult to find tbh, that's the best I could get.

 

Basically, if Messi scores just over 7 free kicks a season for the next 5 seasons, he'll beat Juninho's record, but the figures are a bit all over the place for both of them.