Is Mike Ashley steering Newcastle United in the right direction?

[madras]

The one thing I can't get is that Shley brought in Shearer last season because he didin't think or have faith in Hughton being able to keep us up, yet he wants him as manager next season.

being fair to hughton it may be because of where we are in the league.

[OzzieMandias]

 

I see them (ashley and lamb chop) as inept wankers who have almost destroyed a football club I've supported for over 40 years due to a whole series of bad decisions.

 

It's comments like this that make me about some of our support, football is emotive, but after 12-18months you'd hope that people would start to get a sense of perspective, particularly when other events in the footballing world unfold and shed some light on the underlying situation at every business.

 

Footballing-wise, there have been some horrendous mistakes made, especially the attempt to sign Harry Redknapp (wtf?!) then the doomed appointment of KK; however, it is noticeable that their decisions are improving (even if it's just because they are making fewer of them).

 

Business-wise, we can only really go off the numbers published at the end of every year, as we all know that the club have deliberately misled the supporters in the past. To date, the financial situation is improving, so I find it hard to fault Ashley for those decisions.

 

So what's the problem with HTL's point???

 

The "whole series of bad decisions" made by the "inept wankers" led a lot of people to draw the conclusion that they were deliberately trying to destroy the club.

 

The ineptitude is beyond question. Drawing the conclusion that were deliberately trying to destroy the club is laughable.

 

1. Did ashley deliberately buy the football club without understanding exactly what he was buying?

2. Did ashley deliberately appoint Keegan?

3. Did ashley deliberately install a system that would not possibly work with a manager of that temperament?

4. Did ashley deliberately back Wise over Keegan?

5. Did ashley deliberately appoint a bloody joke as a manager?

6. Did ashley deliberately appoint a coach as a manager?

7. Did ashley deliberately appoint Shearer as manager, a man has no previous experience, thereby showing his panic at the situation?

9. Did ashley deliberately put the club up for sale then withdraw it from sale more than once, undermining the entire football club?

10. Did ashley deliberately see a surplus of money from transfer dealings during Jan 2009?

11. Was the club relegated by 1 point at the end of that season?

 

Whether the bastard deliberately set out to ruin the club is not the point because nobody said that anyway, but his actions have lead to almost total ruin of the football club and there is no excuse.

 

It wasn't just his actions though, you can't simply ignore what went on beforehand under Shepherd where we borrowed heavily and sooner or later the belt would have to be tightened. You can't just roll Souness and Allardyce's time here under a carpet when so much damage was inflicted by these appointments.

I never have. I know they were bad appointments, especially sourness. I've said so numerous times.

 

I also know that those who are somehow supporting ashley now are the same people (like mandiarse) who were telling everyone to give sourness time to build his own team. I also remember that when I posted I didn't want the Board to back Sourness with money in the January window I was slated and told that the Board HAD to stump up the cash otherwise they would be confirmed as being shite.

 

I do understand that people want to whinge on about the previous Board because we had a good team but didn't win the title, especially after only signing 3 players in 2003 when we should have apparently signed half a team, but everything Ashley has done has been far worse than anything done by the previous Board.

 

So what? The previous board sold up and fucked off with the money because they wanted to. No one held a gun to their head otherwise they could still be here now...and in fact if they wanted to invest some cash they could buy it back same way as Ashley did. But they won't because they don't want to put their money in Newcastle and neither does anyone else. Until someone does it's pointless whingeing at the only bloke who's putting anything in no matter how reluctantly he's doing it.

 

That is, indeed, the bottom line.

[Howaythelads]

What a

 

It's the same people who backed the destruction of the team by Souness, who complained we signed only 3 players (2 of them internationals) in 2003, who complained we finished top 5 for 3 seasons in a row, who claimed a "Director of Football" was the answer, who would now crawl through 3 miles of broken glass just to sniff Ashley's arse.

 

He's getting better but he has a long way to go to get anywhere near the achievements of the previous people.

 

As a supporter of the club and a believer that the club comes first, I hope he does it. He owns the club and until he sells it I recognise completely that it's down to whatever he does. He needs to start getting decisions right and he needs to instill some kind of belief that the club is heading in the right direction under his ownership. He hasn't done that so far, what he has done so far is undermine the club. There is no way that group of footballers should have been relegated last season, there is a reason for the shite performances last season and that's to do with the overall football club and lack of spirit. imo.

[Howaythelads]

The one thing I can't get is that Shley brought in Shearer last season because he didin't think or have faith in Hughton being able to keep us up, yet he wants him as manager next season.

 

It's because he doesn't really know what the hell he's doing, man. What on earth was the point in appointing Shearer, ffs? Is he really that deluded? It was a good decision when he didn't offer him the job permanently but I'd have been happier again had he gone out and appointed an experienced manager. Nowt against Hughton, who is doing a decent job under difficult circumstances.

 

It does look like Ashley is getting better, but that's not saying much on previous performance. 

 

He needs someone like me to help him out.

 

Here's something....

 

Mike,

 

I already have a career job that I'll have to give up, but I love the club so I'll do it. I'll sign a 9 year employment contract with Newcastle United for £60k pa to help you out with your PR. Annual increases in line with inflation and a car will do it. You'll easily get that back from the increased attendance revenue just by me preventing Derek putting his foot in it every time he opens his mouth.

[UV]

So what? The previous board sold up and fucked off with the money because they wanted to. No one held a gun to their head otherwise they could still be here now...and in fact if they wanted to invest some cash they could buy it back same way as Ashley did. But they won't because they don't want to put their money in Newcastle and neither does anyone else. Until someone does it's pointless whingeing at the only bloke who's putting anything in no matter how reluctantly he's doing it.

 

There are just a few people other than Ashley putting something into the club either directly or indirectly, and their combined contribution far exceeds Ashley's. Llambias for one would do well to remember this.

 

So to paraphrase the above post - no one should complain about anything Ashley does because he bought the club and no one else is willing to pay the price he has put on it to buy it off him, so "whingeing" is pointless?

 

Your choice, but not for me. The mere fact that the chanting is annoying Llambias and Ashley show that it is not in fact totally pointless. For now it may not have the desired effect of getting him out of the club, but at least it encourages articles such as this to counter the "Mike saved the club" spiel that's once again being pushed out to anyone who'll listen.

 

BTW, I hope no one agreeing with BT's post was "pointlessly whingeing" about the old board (or even encouraging people to protest and boycott matches) when Hall was looking to sell but no one until Ashley was willing to pay the stock market valuation for the club. That would be a bit hypocritical wouldn't it.

[madras]

The one thing I can't get is that Shley brought in Shearer last season because he didin't think or have faith in Hughton being able to keep us up, yet he wants him as manager next season.

 

It's because he doesn't really know what the hell he's doing, man. What on earth was the point in appointing Shearer, ffs? Is he really that deluded? It was a good decision when he didn't offer him the job permanently but I'd have been happier again had he gone out and appointed an experienced manager. Nowt against Hughton, who is doing a decent job under difficult circumstances.

 

It does look like Ashley is getting better, but that's not saying much on previous performance. 

 

He needs someone like me to help him out.

 

Here's something....

 

Mike,

 

I already have a career job that I'll have to give up, but I love the club so I'll do it. I'll sign a 9 year employment contract with Newcastle United for £60k pa to help you out with your PR. Annual increases in line with inflation and a car will do it. You'll easily get that back from the increased attendance revenue just by me preventing Derek putting his foot in it every time he opens his mouth.

hang on htl, wasn't the appointment very reminiscent of appointing another of our ex faves into the managers seat without any experience when fighting a relegation battle.

[Guest jonlane86]

IF we go up the summer coming will tell us more about ashleys tenure than anything that has gone before. He'll not be able to use the financial position card as he has done so far. Then it will all be his, he'll not be able to blame the position on what went before.

 

will he put his 20M a year as he said, along with surplus cash from TV money sponsorship etc, if he does, this should allow a kitty to buy the players needed to stay up

 

whether hughton does this, and get's rid of the sloggers, is another

 

Why should he have to put in his £20m a year?  He's done that this year to keep us running, not as a long term strategy.  Can anyone here tell me they would run a business at a £20m loss a year and never be in a position to recoup that?

 

In my opinion the club needs to be run as if it were to finish 17th in the PL every year.  If we do better than that any additional funds raised can be reinvested, so effectively the club is running at a not for profit system.  If we run it 'smart' you could even put aside a "relegation kitty" so if we do go down we can take the loss to get us back promoted again, thus not needing to reinvest more of the owner's personal funds.

 

Mike Ashley will never get a return on his investment, and deep down you can tell he knows that and he's given up trying to do it.  How would any of you feel if you lost half of your worth because you bought a business?

[Unbelievable]

"Once we were relegated Mike made the decision not to fire-sell."

 

Heh? 

[quayside]

So what? The previous board sold up and f***ed off with the money because they wanted to. No one held a gun to their head otherwise they could still be here now...and in fact if they wanted to invest some cash they could buy it back same way as Ashley did. But they won't because they don't want to put their money in Newcastle and neither does anyone else. Until someone does it's pointless whingeing at the only bloke who's putting anything in no matter how reluctantly he's doing it.

 

There are just a few people other than Ashley putting something into the club either directly or indirectly, and their combined contribution far exceeds Ashley's. Llambias for one would do well to remember this.

 

So to paraphrase the above post - no one should complain about anything Ashley does because he bought the club and no one else is willing to pay the price he has put on it to buy it off him, so "whingeing" is pointless?

 

Your choice, but not for me. The mere fact that the chanting is annoying Llambias and Ashley show that it is not in fact totally pointless. For now it may not have the desired effect of getting him out of the club, but at least it encourages articles such as this to counter the "Mike saved the club" spiel that's once again being pushed out to anyone who'll listen.

 

BTW, I hope no one agreeing with BT's post was "pointlessly whingeing" about the old board (or even encouraging people to protest and boycott matches) when Hall was looking to sell but no one until Ashley was willing to pay the stock market valuation for the club. That would be a bit hypocritical wouldn't it.

 

Not sure what your point is about the stock market value tbh. Stock markets react to known situations and known negotiations. The stock market value of the club was about half what Ashley paid for it until the previous board starting seriously touting it around.  Remember Polygon and Belgravia? Belgravia even completed due diligence, and I can assure you from my own experience you do not go through that unless you are a willing seller. And even after that it got nowhere near £130 million until the word on Hall's discussions with Ashley got out. Just one further point, Shepherd had plenty of opportunity to buy it if he had wanted to. He obviously had his reasons for chosing not to.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6904072.stm

[Howaythelads]

The one thing I can't get is that Shley brought in Shearer last season because he didin't think or have faith in Hughton being able to keep us up, yet he wants him as manager next season.

 

It's because he doesn't really know what the hell he's doing, man. What on earth was the point in appointing Shearer, ffs? Is he really that deluded? It was a good decision when he didn't offer him the job permanently but I'd have been happier again had he gone out and appointed an experienced manager. Nowt against Hughton, who is doing a decent job under difficult circumstances.

 

It does look like Ashley is getting better, but that's not saying much on previous performance. 

 

He needs someone like me to help him out.

 

Here's something....

 

Mike,

 

I already have a career job that I'll have to give up, but I love the club so I'll do it. I'll sign a 9 year employment contract with Newcastle United for £60k pa to help you out with your PR. Annual increases in line with inflation and a car will do it. You'll easily get that back from the increased attendance revenue just by me preventing Derek putting his foot in it every time he opens his mouth.

hang on htl, wasn't the appointment very reminiscent of appointing another of our ex faves into the managers seat without any experience when fighting a relegation battle.

Speak for yourself. I don't have any favourites, I grew out of that by about age 12, the club is all that is important.

[Howaythelads]

IF we go up the summer coming will tell us more about ashleys tenure than anything that has gone before. He'll not be able to use the financial position card as he has done so far. Then it will all be his, he'll not be able to blame the position on what went before.

 

will he put his 20M a year as he said, along with surplus cash from TV money sponsorship etc, if he does, this should allow a kitty to buy the players needed to stay up

 

whether hughton does this, and get's rid of the sloggers, is another

 

Why should he have to put in his £20m a year?  He's done that this year to keep us running, not as a long term strategy.  Can anyone here tell me they would run a business at a £20m loss a year and never be in a position to recoup that?

 

In my opinion the club needs to be run as if it were to finish 17th in the PL every year.  If we do better than that any additional funds raised can be reinvested, so effectively the club is running at a not for profit system.  If we run it 'smart' you could even put aside a "relegation kitty" so if we do go down we can take the loss to get us back promoted again, thus not needing to reinvest more of the owner's personal funds.

 

Mike Ashley will never get a return on his investment, and deep down you can tell he knows that and he's given up trying to do it.  How would any of you feel if you lost half of your worth because you bought a business?

I'd feel gutted but I'd accept responsibility for my mistakes.

[UV]

So what? The previous board sold up and f***ed off with the money because they wanted to. No one held a gun to their head otherwise they could still be here now...and in fact if they wanted to invest some cash they could buy it back same way as Ashley did. But they won't because they don't want to put their money in Newcastle and neither does anyone else. Until someone does it's pointless whingeing at the only bloke who's putting anything in no matter how reluctantly he's doing it.

 

There are just a few people other than Ashley putting something into the club either directly or indirectly, and their combined contribution far exceeds Ashley's. Llambias for one would do well to remember this.

 

So to paraphrase the above post - no one should complain about anything Ashley does because he bought the club and no one else is willing to pay the price he has put on it to buy it off him, so "whingeing" is pointless?

 

Your choice, but not for me. The mere fact that the chanting is annoying Llambias and Ashley show that it is not in fact totally pointless. For now it may not have the desired effect of getting him out of the club, but at least it encourages articles such as this to counter the "Mike saved the club" spiel that's once again being pushed out to anyone who'll listen.

 

BTW, I hope no one agreeing with BT's post was "pointlessly whingeing" about the old board (or even encouraging people to protest and boycott matches) when Hall was looking to sell but no one until Ashley was willing to pay the stock market valuation for the club. That would be a bit hypocritical wouldn't it.

 

Not sure what your point is about the stock market value tbh. Stock markets react to known situations and known negotiations. The stock market value of the club was about half what Ashley paid for it until the previous board starting seriously touting it around.  Remember Polygon and Belgravia? Belgravia even completed due diligence, and I can assure you from my own experience you do not go through that unless you are a willing seller. And even after that it got nowhere near £130 million until the word on Hall's discussions with Ashley got out. Just one further point, Shepherd had plenty of opportunity to buy it if he had wanted to. He obviously had his reasons for chosing not to.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6904072.stm

 

I'm fully aware Hall wanted to sell and had done so for a number of years before Ashley came along, I've said so on numerous occasions. It was well known he wanted to sell long before anyone was predicting imminent financial meltdown (in fact in spite of freely available sets of accounts on the club website I don't seem to remember any of those predictions until after Ashley tbh). He managed to do so and attract potential buyers without appointing short term interim managers or putting the whole club in limbo over the Summer though.

 

I mentioned the stock market value as that is the price Ashley had to pay to buy the club at the time. Whether the club was worth that figure was down to the potential buyer to decide, but it wasn't some arbitrary figure put on the club by the Halls, Shepherds and the other shareholders. The club was for sale, and it was for sale at the market value. If you are going to take the point of view that complaining about the running of the club is "pointless whingeing" if the club is up for sale, then you have to surely agree that it was pointless whingeing back then too.

 

Really not sure what you're on about with the price rise once the "word on Hall's discussions with Ashley got out". Unless I missed it there was no hint of it until it was deal done with Hall. Ashley bought the shares off Hall for £1 per share, and he bought the rest for £1.01 per share. Hardly a rocketing increase. There's not much detail on the share price graph in the article you linked to, but it looks like a steep but gradual increase in shareprice throughout 2007 at a time when a large increase in TV revenue had been announced and Premiership football club ownership was becoming fashionable amongst those looking to make a name or a profit. I would imagine the graph would look similar for any other club on the stock market at that time. Ashley may have paid a few pennies per share extra, but saying it was "nowhere near £130 million" is simply not true.

 

I believe Shepherd would have loved to have bought the club, the minor problem of him not having enough money to be able to afford it MAY have been one of his reasons for him "chosing" not to. Just guessing there though.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

So what? The previous board sold up and f***ed off with the money because they wanted to. No one held a gun to their head otherwise they could still be here now...and in fact if they wanted to invest some cash they could buy it back same way as Ashley did. But they won't because they don't want to put their money in Newcastle and neither does anyone else. Until someone does it's pointless whingeing at the only bloke who's putting anything in no matter how reluctantly he's doing it.

 

There are just a few people other than Ashley putting something into the club either directly or indirectly, and their combined contribution far exceeds Ashley's. Llambias for one would do well to remember this.

 

So to paraphrase the above post - no one should complain about anything Ashley does because he bought the club and no one else is willing to pay the price he has put on it to buy it off him, so "whingeing" is pointless?

 

Your choice, but not for me. The mere fact that the chanting is annoying Llambias and Ashley show that it is not in fact totally pointless. For now it may not have the desired effect of getting him out of the club, but at least it encourages articles such as this to counter the "Mike saved the club" spiel that's once again being pushed out to anyone who'll listen.

 

BTW, I hope no one agreeing with BT's post was "pointlessly whingeing" about the old board (or even encouraging people to protest and boycott matches) when Hall was looking to sell but no one until Ashley was willing to pay the stock market valuation for the club. That would be a bit hypocritical wouldn't it.

 

Not sure what your point is about the stock market value tbh. Stock markets react to known situations and known negotiations. The stock market value of the club was about half what Ashley paid for it until the previous board starting seriously touting it around.  Remember Polygon and Belgravia? Belgravia even completed due diligence, and I can assure you from my own experience you do not go through that unless you are a willing seller. And even after that it got nowhere near £130 million until the word on Hall's discussions with Ashley got out. Just one further point, Shepherd had plenty of opportunity to buy it if he had wanted to. He obviously had his reasons for chosing not to.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6904072.stm

 

I'm fully aware Hall wanted to sell and had done so for a number of years before Ashley came along, I've said so on numerous occasions. It was well known he wanted to sell long before anyone was predicting imminent financial meltdown (in fact in spite of freely available sets of accounts on the club website I don't seem to remember any of those predictions until after Ashley tbh). He managed to do so and attract potential buyers without appointing short term interim managers or putting the whole club in limbo over the Summer though.

 

I mentioned the stock market value as that is the price Ashley had to pay to buy the club at the time. Whether the club was worth that figure was down to the potential buyer to decide, but it wasn't some arbitrary figure put on the club by the Halls, Shepherds and the other shareholders. The club was for sale, and it was for sale at the market value. If you are going to take the point of view that complaining about the running of the club is "pointless whingeing" if the club is up for sale, then you have to surely agree that it was pointless whingeing back then too.

 

Really not sure what you're on about with the price rise once the "word on Hall's discussions with Ashley got out". Unless I missed it there was no hint of it until it was deal done with Hall. Ashley bought the shares off Hall for £1 per share, and he bought the rest for £1.01 per share. Hardly a rocketing increase. There's not much detail on the share price graph in the article you linked to, but it looks like a steep but gradual increase in shareprice throughout 2007 at a time when a large increase in TV revenue had been announced and Premiership football club ownership was becoming fashionable amongst those looking to make a name or a profit. I would imagine the graph would look similar for any other club on the stock market at that time. Ashley may have paid a few pennies per share extra, but saying it was "nowhere near £130 million" is simply not true.

 

I believe Shepherd would have loved to have bought the club, the minor problem of him not having enough money to be able to afford it MAY have been one of his reasons for him "chosing" not to. Just guessing there though.

probably put paid to that though.

 

The valuation of the shares he paid £1 each for was 84p prior to him purchasing them.  20% is a canny premium.

[Howaythelads]

Wish people would stop posting in this thread. I get excited every time it's back to the top 'cos I'm hoping Mr Ashley and Mr Llambias are on the verge of making a good decision by offering me a job. I've offered my services and that's not easy to do because I like my current job. I'm making a sacrifice here.

[TRon]

So what? The previous board sold up and f***ed off with the money because they wanted to. No one held a gun to their head otherwise they could still be here now...and in fact if they wanted to invest some cash they could buy it back same way as Ashley did. But they won't because they don't want to put their money in Newcastle and neither does anyone else. Until someone does it's pointless whingeing at the only bloke who's putting anything in no matter how reluctantly he's doing it.

 

There are just a few people other than Ashley putting something into the club either directly or indirectly, and their combined contribution far exceeds Ashley's. Llambias for one would do well to remember this.

 

So to paraphrase the above post - no one should complain about anything Ashley does because he bought the club and no one else is willing to pay the price he has put on it to buy it off him, so "whingeing" is pointless?

 

Your choice, but not for me. The mere fact that the chanting is annoying Llambias and Ashley show that it is not in fact totally pointless. For now it may not have the desired effect of getting him out of the club, but at least it encourages articles such as this to counter the "Mike saved the club" spiel that's once again being pushed out to anyone who'll listen.

 

BTW, I hope no one agreeing with BT's post was "pointlessly whingeing" about the old board (or even encouraging people to protest and boycott matches) when Hall was looking to sell but no one until Ashley was willing to pay the stock market valuation for the club. That would be a bit hypocritical wouldn't it.

 

Not sure what your point is about the stock market value tbh. Stock markets react to known situations and known negotiations. The stock market value of the club was about half what Ashley paid for it until the previous board starting seriously touting it around.  Remember Polygon and Belgravia? Belgravia even completed due diligence, and I can assure you from my own experience you do not go through that unless you are a willing seller. And even after that it got nowhere near £130 million until the word on Hall's discussions with Ashley got out. Just one further point, Shepherd had plenty of opportunity to buy it if he had wanted to. He obviously had his reasons for chosing not to.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6904072.stm

 

I'm fully aware Hall wanted to sell and had done so for a number of years before Ashley came along, I've said so on numerous occasions. It was well known he wanted to sell long before anyone was predicting imminent financial meltdown (in fact in spite of freely available sets of accounts on the club website I don't seem to remember any of those predictions until after Ashley tbh). He managed to do so and attract potential buyers without appointing short term interim managers or putting the whole club in limbo over the Summer though.

 

I mentioned the stock market value as that is the price Ashley had to pay to buy the club at the time. Whether the club was worth that figure was down to the potential buyer to decide, but it wasn't some arbitrary figure put on the club by the Halls, Shepherds and the other shareholders. The club was for sale, and it was for sale at the market value. If you are going to take the point of view that complaining about the running of the club is "pointless whingeing" if the club is up for sale, then you have to surely agree that it was pointless whingeing back then too.

 

Really not sure what you're on about with the price rise once the "word on Hall's discussions with Ashley got out". Unless I missed it there was no hint of it until it was deal done with Hall. Ashley bought the shares off Hall for £1 per share, and he bought the rest for £1.01 per share. Hardly a rocketing increase. There's not much detail on the share price graph in the article you linked to, but it looks like a steep but gradual increase in shareprice throughout 2007 at a time when a large increase in TV revenue had been announced and Premiership football club ownership was becoming fashionable amongst those looking to make a name or a profit. I would imagine the graph would look similar for any other club on the stock market at that time. Ashley may have paid a few pennies per share extra, but saying it was "nowhere near £130 million" is simply not true.

 

I believe Shepherd would have loved to have bought the club, the minor problem of him not having enough money to be able to afford it MAY have been one of his reasons for him "chosing" not to. Just guessing there though.

 

Which is the key point. Shepherd and Hall didn't have/weren't prepared to put their own money into the club and were probably at the limit as far as taking out more loans to fund further investments which is why they gladly sold up and took their MASSIVE cash bonanza.

[Guest Pie]

Wish people would stop posting in this thread. I get excited every time it's back to the top 'cos I'm hoping Mr Ashley and Mr Llambias are on the verge of making a good decision by offering me a job. I've offered my services and that's not easy to do because I like my current job. I'm making a sacrifice here.

Do they need the windows licking at SJP though?

[fredbob]

The one thing I can't get is that Shley brought in Shearer last season because he didin't think or have faith in Hughton being able to keep us up, yet he wants him as manager next season.

 

It's because he doesn't really know what the hell he's doing, man. What on earth was the point in appointing Shearer, ffs? Is he really that deluded? It was a good decision when he didn't offer him the job permanently but I'd have been happier again had he gone out and appointed an experienced manager. Nowt against Hughton, who is doing a decent job under difficult circumstances.

 

It does look like Ashley is getting better, but that's not saying much on previous performance. 

 

He needs someone like me to help him out.

 

Here's something....

 

Mike,

 

I already have a career job that I'll have to give up, but I love the club so I'll do it. I'll sign a 9 year employment contract with Newcastle United for £60k pa to help you out with your PR. Annual increases in line with inflation and a car will do it. You'll easily get that back from the increased attendance revenue just by me preventing Derek putting his foot in it every time he opens his mouth.

hang on htl, wasn't the appointment very reminiscent of appointing another of our ex faves into the managers seat without any experience when fighting a relegation battle.

Speak for yourself. I don't have any favourites, I grew out of that by about age 12, the club is all that is important.

 

If the club is all that is important to you then I'm not sure how you can come to the conclusion that immediate success on the field is anyway near as important as survival off it?!

 

[Exiled in Texas]

I always saw the Shearer appointment as one done only to create an Emotional Euphoria to lift up a sagging team and scrape over the finishing line in 18th place.  The team never looked like it had the ability to lift itself with coaching or tactics and they hoped that Mesiah 2 would be enough.  (In effect, putting a shiny object in room so that people looked at that and not the cracks that could no longer be papered over).

 

[Liam Liam Liam O]

I always saw the Shearer appointment as one done only to create an Emotional Euphoria to lift up a sagging team and scrape over the finishing line in 18th place.   The team never looked like it had the ability to lift itself with coaching or tactics and they hoped that Mesiah 2 would be enough.  (In effect, putting a shiny object in room so that people looked at that and not the cracks that could no longer be papered over).

 

 

17th place

[Exiled in Texas]

Doh!!

[quayside]

 

Not sure what your point is about the stock market value tbh. Stock markets react to known situations and known negotiations. The stock market value of the club was about half what Ashley paid for it until the previous board starting seriously touting it around.  Remember Polygon and Belgravia? Belgravia even completed due diligence, and I can assure you from my own experience you do not go through that unless you are a willing seller. And even after that it got nowhere near £130 million until the word on Hall's discussions with Ashley got out. Just one further point, Shepherd had plenty of opportunity to buy it if he had wanted to. He obviously had his reasons for chosing not to.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6904072.stm

 

I'm fully aware Hall wanted to sell and had done so for a number of years before Ashley came along, I've said so on numerous occasions. It was well known he wanted to sell long before anyone was predicting imminent financial meltdown (in fact in spite of freely available sets of accounts on the club website I don't seem to remember any of those predictions until after Ashley tbh). He managed to do so and attract potential buyers without appointing short term interim managers or putting the whole club in limbo over the Summer though.

 

I mentioned the stock market value as that is the price Ashley had to pay to buy the club at the time. Whether the club was worth that figure was down to the potential buyer to decide, but it wasn't some arbitrary figure put on the club by the Halls, Shepherds and the other shareholders. The club was for sale, and it was for sale at the market value. If you are going to take the point of view that complaining about the running of the club is "pointless whingeing" if the club is up for sale, then you have to surely agree that it was pointless whingeing back then too.

 

Really not sure what you're on about with the price rise once the "word on Hall's discussions with Ashley got out". Unless I missed it there was no hint of it until it was deal done with Hall. Ashley bought the shares off Hall for £1 per share, and he bought the rest for £1.01 per share. Hardly a rocketing increase. There's not much detail on the share price graph in the article you linked to, but it looks like a steep but gradual increase in shareprice throughout 2007 at a time when a large increase in TV revenue had been announced and Premiership football club ownership was becoming fashionable amongst those looking to make a name or a profit. I would imagine the graph would look similar for any other club on the stock market at that time. Ashley may have paid a few pennies per share extra, but saying it was "nowhere near £130 million" is simply not true.

 

I believe Shepherd would have loved to have bought the club, the minor problem of him not having enough money to be able to afford it MAY have been one of his reasons for him "chosing" not to. Just guessing there though.

 

The freely available sets of accounts did not include projections, hence the insolvent position and the full extent of the situation at 30th June 2007 was not known about by anyone outside the club until the accounts were filed in 2008. And 2008 was, of course, post Ashley.

 

I have never defended the way Ashley sought to sell the club. Arguably he was doing what plenty of people had been urging him to do, but the effects of his doing it the way he did in the early part of the 2008/2009 season were nothing short of catastrophic. I don’t think his efforts to sell last summer made a lot of difference to anything much as it turned out. FWIW I think his decision making is getting better, but his PR through Llambias is still a disaster.

 

The only market price of anything is the one that someone is prepared to pay and that was obviously the basis of the deal when Ashley bought in. The stock market is a reactive mechanism and as I said it simply responds to known or widely believed information, hence when a good or poor set of results are published there is a reaction. Similarly it reacted to it being known that there was a serious possibility of the club being sold, and it reacted on the news of Ashley’s negotiations with Hall. The only other clubs I can find whose share price reacted in the same way at that time were as a result of takeover speculation (Birmingham and Spurs).   

 

You say:

 

“If you are going to take the point of view that complaining about the running of the club is "pointless whingeing" if the club is up for sale, then you have to surely agree that it was pointless whingeing back then too.”

 

You’ve lost me with that. I just don’t see what your point is. I would guess everything is for sale at a price but is the club up for sale now? If it is it’s being kept very quiet. And who was whingeing about the club being up for sale back then? I was just making the point that it clearly was up for sale and the previous (majority) owners wanted out imo.

 

I think Ashley paid over the odds for the club (entirely his fault) although you obviously don’t. Values of football clubs are highly subjective since most of them don’t make money but I don’t think we were worth twice the price that Lerner paid for Villa. Not that it makes any difference now.

 

Maybe Shepherd could not afford the club on his own but he was certainly aware of the possibility of getting backing to buy it. And, as I said, he had had plenty of opportunity to do something like that.

 

Oh and thanks for drawing attention to my “chosing” typo – classy  

 

 

[Guest jonlane86]

IF we go up the summer coming will tell us more about ashleys tenure than anything that has gone before. He'll not be able to use the financial position card as he has done so far. Then it will all be his, he'll not be able to blame the position on what went before.

 

will he put his 20M a year as he said, along with surplus cash from TV money sponsorship etc, if he does, this should allow a kitty to buy the players needed to stay up

 

whether hughton does this, and get's rid of the sloggers, is another

 

Why should he have to put in his £20m a year?  He's done that this year to keep us running, not as a long term strategy.  Can anyone here tell me they would run a business at a £20m loss a year and never be in a position to recoup that?

 

In my opinion the club needs to be run as if it were to finish 17th in the PL every year.  If we do better than that any additional funds raised can be reinvested, so effectively the club is running at a not for profit system.  If we run it 'smart' you could even put aside a "relegation kitty" so if we do go down we can take the loss to get us back promoted again, thus not needing to reinvest more of the owner's personal funds.

 

Mike Ashley will never get a return on his investment, and deep down you can tell he knows that and he's given up trying to do it.  How would any of you feel if you lost half of your worth because you bought a business?

I'd feel gutted but I'd accept responsibility for my mistakes.

 

erm didn't he do that in several statements saying "i've made mistakes"?

[Howaythelads]

The one thing I can't get is that Shley brought in Shearer last season because he didin't think or have faith in Hughton being able to keep us up, yet he wants him as manager next season.

 

It's because he doesn't really know what the hell he's doing, man. What on earth was the point in appointing Shearer, ffs? Is he really that deluded? It was a good decision when he didn't offer him the job permanently but I'd have been happier again had he gone out and appointed an experienced manager. Nowt against Hughton, who is doing a decent job under difficult circumstances.

 

It does look like Ashley is getting better, but that's not saying much on previous performance. 

 

He needs someone like me to help him out.

 

Here's something....

 

Mike,

 

I already have a career job that I'll have to give up, but I love the club so I'll do it. I'll sign a 9 year employment contract with Newcastle United for £60k pa to help you out with your PR. Annual increases in line with inflation and a car will do it. You'll easily get that back from the increased attendance revenue just by me preventing Derek putting his foot in it every time he opens his mouth.

hang on htl, wasn't the appointment very reminiscent of appointing another of our ex faves into the managers seat without any experience when fighting a relegation battle.

Speak for yourself. I don't have any favourites, I grew out of that by about age 12, the club is all that is important.

 

If the club is all that is important to you then I'm not sure how you can come to the conclusion that immediate success on the field is anyway near as important as survival off it?!

 

 

You think I'm after IMMEDIATE success when I've been supporting this club since 1968?

 

Mate, if you're going to reply at least think past the knee-jerk dig before you do it. I haven't demanded immediate success, or even just success, that's the game of those who wanted rid of the previous Board. You know, the people who weren't happy with 3 x top 5 finishes and with signing 3 players in 2003. They are the one's who were demanding success.

 

I'm critical of Ashley and co because their decisions led directly to the club being relegated, therefore placing into jeopardy the very existence of the football club.

 

Not being relegated from the PL last season is very much tied to the survival of the club but it happened, in reality there is a direct relationship between what happens on the field of play and what happens off it. However, my position on Ashley is obviously nothing to do with calls for immediate success. I guess you must mistakenly believe my annoyance that Ashley brought about relegation is somehow a call from me for immediate success. After saying that, I believe immediate promotion is definitely tied to the future of the club. You may disagree if you like.

[Howaythelads]

Wish people would stop posting in this thread. I get excited every time it's back to the top 'cos I'm hoping Mr Ashley and Mr Llambias are on the verge of making a good decision by offering me a job. I've offered my services and that's not easy to do because I like my current job. I'm making a sacrifice here.

Do they need the windows licking at SJP though?

 

You should be all in favour of me being offered a job with the club. Just think, a real ITK on the forum.

[Guest bobthemag]

5 years ago relegation would have been unthinkable but this clown Ashley has now managed to lower expectations to such an extent that a lot of people will now be happy to see us cling to 17th place by scraping around for bore draws playing s*** defensive football next season.

 

He is now even getting credit for doing a decent job in some quarters - unbelievable

 

In the last 5 years we've been in danger of being relegated more than once to be honest

 

we only managed it once and since then the revenue has dropped