Dave Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 The question for me though is have we gotten better than we would have been had we kept Carroll? I've said all along that I felt we got far more for Carroll than he was or ever would be worth, but that only really matters if you use the money to improve beyond where you would have been had you ignored the big money and kept hold of him. As it stands we've swapped Carroll for Ba and Marveaux. Actually use that money (rather than continue peddling this nonsense that every single penny we ever spend again must be covered by the Carroll money) and buy a couple of quality players to improve the team and the Carroll deal can be remembered as a good one for the club. Not optimistic though. I don't think the Carroll deal should be judged in hindsight based on what happens to the team afterwards. Let's face it, we sold him because the club needs income and the deal was too good to turn down. That's it. Any other reason is just an attempt to justify an unpopular move. Did you say this at the time? All I remember when we sold Carroll was how great the money was, how great our squad would be after spending the money, and how the sale was completely justified because of it. How things have changed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I think he meant Enrique and Barton leaving at the end of this season, after the top 7 finish. Fair enough, slight edit made. I don't understand where these two top-drawer players are coming from if it's a given that Ashley won't spend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 The question for me though is have we gotten better than we would have been had we kept Carroll? I've said all along that I felt we got far more for Carroll than he was or ever would be worth, but that only really matters if you use the money to improve beyond where you would have been had you ignored the big money and kept hold of him. As it stands we've swapped Carroll for Ba and Marveaux. Actually use that money (rather than continue peddling this nonsense that every single penny we ever spend again must be covered by the Carroll money) and buy a couple of quality players to improve the team and the Carroll deal can be remembered as a good one for the club. Not optimistic though. I don't think the Carroll deal should be judged in hindsight based on what happens to the team afterwards. Let's face it, we sold him because the club needs income and the deal was too good to turn down. That's it. Any other reason is just an attempt to justify an unpopular move. Did you say this at the time? All I remember when we sold Carroll was how great the money was, how great our squad would be after spending the money, and how the sale was completely justified because of it. How things have changed. Honestly can't remember, happy to be proved a hypocrite! FWIW I was gutted by the Carroll sale initially, as was pretty much everyone. I never believed the "the money will all be reinvested in the team" line, and I never thought that was necessarily important anyway. I still feel sorry he isn't here, but I accept that the money was too good to turn down for a guy with so little experience and such a volatile character. As you know I'm not against some of the money being used for other purposes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Oh, and if we're that hard up, why do you get so annoyed by people speculating about selling our best players? Surely it's inevitable if we're completely skint? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Oh, and if we're that hard up, why do you get so annoyed by people speculating about selling our best players? Surely it's inevitable if we're completely skint? I never said we were completely skint. I'll judge actual player sales on their merits, the thing I get annoyed about is people revelling in the assumption that every good player was leaving after Carroll went. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 But we're £100m+ in debt. That's the argument that we can't/won't spend the Carroll money on transfers. That's completely skint, right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Actually fuck it, can't be arsed. Respect you as a poster Ian even though I disagree with you on things like this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Fair play! What I meant was that I don't object to some of the money being used to reduce debt and/or cover our regular losses that are making that debt increase. I'm not saying we have to immediately stop spending anything and sell players to clear the debt right now, but the overall situation has to be taken into account. FWIW I don't like disagreeing with so many people on this issue, as a fan I want as many quality signings as possible. I guess the reason is partly because I like seeing us get a bargain and I also like looking at the bigger picture of how the club is being run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-news/football/premier-league/transfer-rumours/8971/6/ziani-free-join-newcastle-after-wolfsburg-release Very speculative. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raconteur Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 No idea how you can state both of those things in the same post. "Probably" being the key word. He probably won't spend the cash. If he did, top-seven is a real possibility. It's not far removed from what many are saying, that Ashley will lay bare his ambition with the next two signings. Except I have no real expectation that he will spend big, and I'll freely admit I'm reconciled with that... I don't believe Ashley has any real ambition beyond trying to get us into the top ten in the most penny-pinching manner, but while that doesn't fill me with joy, neither does it have me exploding with apoplexy... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-news/football/premier-league/transfer-rumours/8971/6/ziani-free-join-newcastle-after-wolfsburg-release Very speculative. TOO OLD!! LOLLZ. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consortium of one Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I'm not sure how one can say we don't want to spend the money if we were in for Gameiro and Erdinc. We targeted two players and one went to another club and one doesn't want to move. The market for Zogs is up in the air with his club looking for too much money. Even the LB situation is in flux. We find a release clause and the club fights it. Is it better to hang on and fight for the 1M clause, pay more for the player or just get someone else? There is still time in the window for the club to show it's intentions. I understand that people don't trust the club (read: Ashley), though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Was this the one who was apparently just another Routledge? (according to people on here) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UV Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I have a small wager for the people who are convinced we already have a better attacking team than last year. £50 says we wont score more league goals this season than last. If you don't want to bet the whole amount I'll take smaller bets from different posters up to the £50 total (min £10). With 2 more quality attacking players to come in on top of the already improved team it's easy money, so be quick otherwise I may decide to stop taking bets once I see just how good they are when we sign them. Put your money where your mouth is and PM me your offers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I have a small wager for the people who are convinced we already have a better attacking team than last year. £50 says we wont score more league goals this season than last. If you don't want to bet the whole amount I'll take smaller bets from different posters up to the £50 total (min £10). With 2 more quality attacking players to come in on top of the already improved team it's easy money, so be quick otherwise I may decide to stop taking bets once I see just how good they are when we sign them. Put your money where your mouth is and PM me your offers. How did we do last season versus historic numbers of goals, any idea? Seemed an unusually free-scoring season to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UV Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I have a small wager for the people who are convinced we already have a better attacking team than last year. £50 says we wont score more league goals this season than last. If you don't want to bet the whole amount I'll take smaller bets from different posters up to the £50 total (min £10). With 2 more quality attacking players to come in on top of the already improved team it's easy money, so be quick otherwise I may decide to stop taking bets once I see just how good they are when we sign them. Put your money where your mouth is and PM me your offers. How did we do last season versus historic numbers of goals, any idea? Seemed an unusually free-scoring season to me. Irrelevant if we've improved as an attacking force from last year, no? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I have a small wager for the people who are convinced we already have a better attacking team than last year. £50 says we wont score more league goals this season than last. If you don't want to bet the whole amount I'll take smaller bets from different posters up to the £50 total (min £10). With 2 more quality attacking players to come in on top of the already improved team it's easy money, so be quick otherwise I may decide to stop taking bets once I see just how good they are when we sign them. Put your money where your mouth is and PM me your offers. How did we do last season versus historic numbers of goals, any idea? Seemed an unusually free-scoring season to me. http://www.nufc.com/2011-12html/premiership-stats.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I have a small wager for the people who are convinced we already have a better attacking team than last year. £50 says we wont score more league goals this season than last. If you don't want to bet the whole amount I'll take smaller bets from different posters up to the £50 total (min £10). With 2 more quality attacking players to come in on top of the already improved team it's easy money, so be quick otherwise I may decide to stop taking bets once I see just how good they are when we sign them. Put your money where your mouth is and PM me your offers. How did we do last season versus historic numbers of goals, any idea? Seemed an unusually free-scoring season to me. Irrelevant if we've improved as an attacking force from last year, no? Well, not entirely, if last seasons players scored more than could be normally expected, then backing the new team to outdo them might be silly, even if the new players are better. I see your point though, FWIW I've no idea if we'll score more or less goals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest michaelfoster Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Premier League 10/11 scored 56 conceded 57 points 46 08/09 scored 40 conceded 59 points 34 07/08 scored 45 conceded 65 points 43 06/07 scored 38 conceded 47 points 43 05/06 scored 47 conceded 42 points 58 Ave scored 45 conceded 54 points 44 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Make it a points thing and I'm in. We have a better team, a team that will get more points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consortium of one Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Make it a points thing and I'm in. We have a better team, a team that will get more points. Is goals scored always the best way to measure a teams attacking quality? I would think possession has to factor in. More time on the ball means less time for the other club and that helps you win, too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest michaelfoster Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 updated my post above and added average points in last 5 years Pip Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I have a small wager for the people who are convinced we already have a better attacking team than last year. £50 says we wont score more league goals this season than last. If you don't want to bet the whole amount I'll take smaller bets from different posters up to the £50 total (min £10). With 2 more quality attacking players to come in on top of the already improved team it's easy money, so be quick otherwise I may decide to stop taking bets once I see just how good they are when we sign them. Put your money where your mouth is and PM me your offers. Even if we do have a better attacking force now, that doesn't mean to say we will score more goals next season. Can't really compare just off goals. I personally don't think we will beat last years total, we were involved in some very high scoring games throughout the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Make it a points thing and I'm in. We have a better team, a team that will get more points. This. Imo we'll be far more versatile in terms of attack, troubling the vast majority of teams instead of tanking particular sides then completely failing against others. A more consistent and even spread of goals could/should mean more points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Make it a points thing and I'm in. We have a better team, a team that will get more points. I would definitly be up for a bet regarding points, i think we will better last year's tally but goals wise that would be a tough ask. Real Madrid scored more goals than Barca and never won the league...are Madrid are better attacking team then Barcelona? I think not.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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